Commuting - Stoplight Etiquette

So, you are in the right lane, in traffic, and approaching a stoplight on a street without bike lanes. Do you most often hug the curb, pass the cars on the right and get to the front, or do you hang back and ride with the traffic? I know what I do -- I feel safer up front (plus I get to smirk as all the fat motorist watch me pedal to the front :thumbup: ). But I have seen riders doing it both ways. What do you do and why?

I pedal to the front just about everytime. The only time I make an exception is on a really hot day when there is some shade at the back.

I too feel safer up front, and make my way up there when i can.

Up front. Why go slow when you can go fast...faster than the cars... :confused:

When you start off from the curb, you have to swerve out a little then back in. Its easy to get knocked if you let traffic accelerate past you.
I try to get to the head of the traffic, its the safest part. I also anticipate the change , so Im ready to go befor the cars are.
On occasion, in 3 -way light controlled junctions, I will creep over the red light and beat the traffic, but only for reasons of safety. I never blast a red, just hoping nothing will come past.

Just watch out for turning traffic if you creep past on the inside.
NEVER creep inside a long vehicle at a junction. If the lights change, you are stuck in a very exposed position.

I tend to hang back in the lane of traffic. There's usually not a lot of room left between the cars and the curb, and I've never really enjoyed ducking under the side view mirrors of trucks and vans. Besides, unless traffic is bumper to bumper, all the cars you passed are probably going to have to pass you again. Not only can this be a danger (as can any car passing you, for that matter), but it will probably piss the drivers off even more.

The biggest exception to this is when I'm behind a bus or a large truck, in which case I'd really rather not breathe in the exhaust fumes, and I ride up to the front.


Of course, when it's bumper to bumper in downtown rush hour, then all bets are off, and I do whatever will get me where I need to go the fastest.

I agree with Lightboy. I tend to try and act like a car or other vehicle and keep my place in line and not slide to the front.

One thing to consider is that many motorists having just passed you on the street (and probably finding you an aggravation), now have to pass you again if you go to the front of the line at the light. I've read many an article on safe cycling and they always discourage riding past the stopped cars and going to the front. I'd hate to have a jerk have another opportunity to come too close a second time. You have to hold your own in traffic that's for sure, but cooperation and courtesy will win every time.

Also think about the "right turn on red" rule that is so prevalent and if you were to slide to the front and had a line of cars turning right they either may hesitate (get impatient and consider you an obstacle rather than a person) or turn directly in front of you and maybe clip you as they went by or you might proceed when the light goes green, and they'd drive right into you. Anything is possible in such a scenario.

I still think it is best to stay in your position and flow with the traffic in congested places.

Just my 2 cents worth.

A bicycle is a wheeled vehicle and subject to the same laws as all other wheeled vehicles. If I expect other drivers to treat me according to the law, I must act according to the law. I therefore take my place in line.

I always go to the front. In some weird it makes me feel a little more visable if I'm out front. It also seems to be the general way here for most bike commuters, of which there are many.

In Australia it is actually legal to move past traffic stopped at a traffic light by passign on the left. There is the stipulation, however, to give way to vehicles that are indicating and turning left.

In practice, I do a bit of both. If I'm approaching a light as it's turning red and there's only a few cars in front of me, and the lanes are narrow, I'll wait in line. If the lanes wide enough to share I'll move to the front, but watch my back as I head on through the intersection. If the light's been red for a while and traffic is backed up, I'll move to the front of the queue irrespective of the lane width, either by passing on the left if there's room, or splitting the lane (passing to the right of the leftmost lane). Often the light will change before I get to it, which means I don't even have to stop. If it doesn't I move over to the kerb to sit at the light, generally by passing behind the car first at the lights. It's all very contextual, depending on many factors, and hard to describe simply, but the overriding thing is to keep my eyes on what's happening, and to ride safely.

The only other thing I'll say is this: The ability to slide through jammed traffic is a big advantage for the cyclist. Why not take it? If I were to wait in the lane with all the single occupant schmucks trying to get into the city in the morning my ride would be 10-20 minutes longer. Playing leapfrog isn't so bad. There's only a very short section of my ride where the lanes are narrow anough that this might be a problem, but they're in places where traffic lights are sparce and reasonably timed, so leapfrogging doesn't really happen at these points.

Originally posted by RainmanP
A bicycle is a wheeled vehicle and subject to the same laws as all other wheeled vehicles. If I expect other drivers to treat me according to the law, I must act according to the law. I therefore take my place in line.

I think this is the only law I break on a regular basis. I just dont feel safe at the end of the line. I think my personal safety comes before any law! :p

Originally posted by RainmanP
A bicycle is a wheeled vehicle and subject to the same laws as all other wheeled vehicles. If I expect other drivers to treat me according to the law, I must act according to the law. I therefore take my place in line.
Same in Missouri. I also feel that it probably annoys some drivers to have to pass a cyclist twice (or more). It wouldn't annoy me if I was the driver, but (1) I'm a cyclist also; (2) I'm halfway rational.

I'm with Light Boy on this one all the way. I stop at the back of the pack at red lights. Passing the cars and them having to pass you back, definitely makes 'em angry.

I have made rare exceptions to my rule tho, when there is construction and the traffic is backed up for a ways I'll PASS 'EM ALL! And love it WOOHAHA! Actually had the opportunity such as that once where the back-up was miles long! HEAVEN on a four lane road! Me passing 'em on my right and my left as I split the lanes! I know I made 'em angry, but I was on the best transportation that day and PROVING IT TO 'EM!!!!!!!!

OHHH I'm excited just thinking about that glorious day! Oh, I wet myself, I'll be back in a minute.
:eek:

Originally posted by Chris L
I pedal to the front just about everytime. The only time I make an exception is on a really hot day when there is some shade at the back.
You bloody b*stard!

:D

Traffic rules are the basis for all bicycle etiquette.

Do I violate traffic rules?

:o

Originally posted by Pete Clark
Do I violate traffic rules?


I don't know, Pete--do you??? :D

Here's what I could find on Georgia law about riding on the right side of the road. http://www.legis.state.ga.us/Legis/1995_96/leg/fulltext/hb552.htm

(a) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall
1-14 ride as near to the right side of the roadway as
1-15 practicable, except when turning left or avoiding hazards
1-16 to safe cycling, when the lane is too narrow to share
1-17 safely with a motor vehicle, when traveling at the same
1-18 speed as traffic, or while exercising due care when
1-19 passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same
1-20 direction; provided, however, that every person operating
1-21 a bicycle away from the right side of the roadway shall
1-22 exercise reasonable care and shall give due consideration
1-23 to the other applicable rules of the road.

Seems to me that Georgia law states that it is legal to pass on the right at at stop light/sign. As a new commuter, I'd like to know if I'm reading this correctly. Also, if anyone else has any links to Georgia bicycle law, I'd really like to get them. :)

PH
:D

I know we are supposed to act like a motor vehicle and stay in-line, but that just seems dangerous at a stop-light.

Most motorist get so anxious and crazy when the light turns green than they will do anything to get around a bicycle if it holds them up. I have had motorist go nuts because they think I am in their way. They honk, swear, give me the bird, and generally terrorize me - even if I am not holding them up. It is just the image of having a bike in THEIR lane when the light turns green.

If there is traffic at a stop light, I go to the front, get on the curb, and cross like a pedestrian when the walk sign appears. Then, when it is clear, I get back onto the street.

At the busier stop-lights Canterbury has what are called 'ahead lanes' for cyclists - a box infront of the car stop lane, with a short cycle lane leading to it. In this way cyclists get to cross the junction first (it pays to start pedalling on amber if you don't want to be beeped at though). They seem to work well when the lights are on red, but I don't feel 100% happy being in the approach lane if a vehicle wants to turn left (think right in the US) at the junction as they will cross my path.

Richard

Some lights around here are on hills. If I wait in line a few cars back, I know that at 5mph, I will not reach the lights before they change. Do I take up a car position, and have all the cars in front accelerate away, but have cars stacking up behind me. This is really tempting them , putting my safety at risk, and holding up traffic. I rather get to the front, anticipate the lights and get away safe and fast over the brow of the hill.

On a US legal note, if you ride on the inside of stopped cars, through a grid-locked junction, the left-turning cars comming towards you have priority, and if they knock you down, its your fault. If you ride on the outside of the cars, you have priority.

I always ride to the front if there's room. It gets me out of the way, gives me space to accelerate (and out-accelerating cars from stopped is easy), and makes me more visable.

Actually, if I know the lights well enough I'll sometimes jump them. I know it's bad, but again, it gets me out the way. And I'm impatient!

Ellie

I, too, take my place in line. I have had too many cars cut me off by turning in front of me. I feel much safer staying in the middle of the lane until safely through the intersection.

Also, as Rainman stated, I come from the school of thought, that if one wants to be treated like a car, they must act like a car. I realize this is only possible to a certain degree, but I do everything I can to keep the motorist on my good side.

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
I think this is the only law I break on a regular basis. I just dont feel safe at the end of the line. I think my personal safety comes before any law!

I don't get it. How does sliding up the side of traffic and taking a place in front of a line of vehicles that out-weigh and out-size you make you safer? I would think that staying the course and flowing with traffic is safer, more courteous, and peeves people off less. Remember everything you do as a cyclist represents us all. Motorists only remember the one cyclist that made them angry and then place blame on all cyclists as a result.

Quite frankly, when I'm on a group ride I get really irritated at riders in the group who slide up to the front of a red light and irritate the hell out of everybody on the road. On narrow roads a driver may have had to wait quite awhile for a clear spot to pass a group (or single rider) and then to have to contend with it again is just not courteous. If you want courteous drivers you must do the same in return. No wonder so many drivers hate us so. I'd rather wait my turn.

If the legal way was always the safest way, I would be totally law abiding, but where they conflict, I have to decide whether I value the law above my own safety.

Junctions and lights are not always designed with bikes in mind. When my local council moved the lights downhill 20 yards, they didnt increase the phase time, so I know they will switch with me halfway across the junction.
What would you chose , the lawfull way, and position yourself in the middle of a large uphill junction as the lights flip against you, or the unlawfull way and ensure you can clear the lights safely in good time. I cant do both.

What the heck, I'll put my two pennies in too!

I take my place, just as if I am a car. I locate about where a passenger would be. When the light changes I try to anticipate the car in front of me, so I push off simultaneously...Usually I am easily able to keep up as they grind through their lower gears, it seems to take them getting past the intersection before they get their two tons of steel moving!

I think passing the waiting cars does piss them off. That said, if they are all stalled and unable to move because of traffic congestion, I with Gus! Roll on to bliss...(Just don't wet yourself thinking about it!!!) :eek:

Originally posted by Steele-Bike
Also, as Rainman stated, I come from the school of thought, that if one wants to be treated like a car, they must act like a car.

I, for one, want to be treated like a cyclist. Motorists and cyclists, whilst sharing the same space are entirely different modes, with entirely different characteristics. The ability to slide through traffic is one of the characteristics of cycling that makes if far more attractive to me than driving, and, by the way, it is supported by the law here in Australia. If I 'm going to wait in the traffic queue, I might as well be driving.

I think people are projecting irrational thoughts onto motorosts if they think that this angers the average motorist, and that said motorist is then going to take that anger out on some random cyclist. You really aren't giving people much credit for reasonableness, and the trouble with that attitude is that it tends to come right back at you somehow. Courtesy and safety are certainly necessary, but I wouldn't call riding to the front of a queue particularly rude behaviour. At the very least, you can guarantee than many motorists in the queue would do exactly the same thing given the opportunity. In fact some of the intersections here in Brisbane seem to be designed with specific queue jumping lanes to accomodate just this (see my 'ride home' photo essay on my website for a classic example).

My basic view is this: if motorists have no problem splitting the lane to pass me, why should they have a problem with me doing the same thing? I have no sympathy for the argument that they find it difficult to pass cyclists. Well boohoohoo. Nowhere in the rules is it written that motorist must be able to pass cyclists in all situations without so much as a nanosecond's delay. If they can't pass safely, they shouldn't pass at all. That's what I do, although it is considerably easier to pass on a bicycle.

If they're approaching a red light, then passing is pointless anyway - I've lost count of the number of times some hoon pass brushed by me in his mad haste to get to the red light 1.2 seconds faster, but at great risk to my safety. It's these morons that I take much delight in passing at the lights, and sitting in the entire lane in front of them. Now THAT really pisses them off - in fact I hope it ruins their entire day.

Originally posted by Allister

Nowhere in the rules is it written that motorist must be able to pass cyclists in all situations without so much as a nanosecond's delay. If they can't pass safely, they shouldn't pass at all.
It's a great theory. I'm never sure whether I find the motorists who decide to obey the central double white line and avoid crossing it, there by squeezing past me with barely inches to spare more worrying than those who ignore the double white line, cross it, then swerve infront of me as they realize why it was there....


Originally posted by Allister

If they're approaching a red light, then passing is pointless anyway - I've lost count of the number of times some hoon pass brushed by me in his mad haste to get to the red light 1.2 seconds faster, but at great risk to my safety. It's these morons that I take much delight in passing at the lights, and sitting in the entire lane in front of them. Now THAT really pisses them off - in fact I hope it ruins their entire day.

Even after all these months I still get a nice warm feeling as I cruise past the idiots in the tailback for the city, who only seconds before were aggressively overtaking. Often I pass every car that overtook me for the previous mile or two...

Richard

Here in California, the whole "a cyclist is a car" thing falls apart in a few places. First of all, I am required by law to ride in bike lanes if they are there. I am required to ride as close to the curb as possible so that I can share the lane with a car.

I've given this some thought, and it seems to me that if a car and a cyclist must share the lane and a car can pass me while sharing the lane with me when I am moving at a lower velocity than the car, then I should be able to pass the car if it is moving at a lower velocity than I am. When a car is stopped in line waiting for a light, it is moving at a lower velocity than I am, and therefore I can pass it and move to the front. So as far a legal issues are concerned, I think I would be in the right to pass the cars and move to the front.

But as a number of people have pointed out, this makes motorists angry, and an angry motorist is a dangerous motorist. So usually I just pull into the middle of the lane and wait in line. I haven't had any motorists get upset with me yet, and if they have been upset they have been quiet about it.

So that's my opinion.

andy

I've already stated above what I generally do, but will add here that, as a frequent bus rider in addition to (presently) infrequent cyclist, I see motoring primates make right (USA) turns IN FRONT OF STOPPED BUSES almost daily. Bus drivers have to be constantly on the lookout for this most irrational behavior!

Now if the prospect of being squashed flat by a city bus that weighs what, at least twenty times as much as your car, doesn't stop these IMBECILES, I am sure they will give even less thought to turning in front of a hapless cyclist. They probably (as noted several times in the Forums) don't even SEE him or her.

Originally posted by Gus Riley

OHHH I'm excited just thinking about that glorious day! Oh, I wet myself, I'll be back in a minute.
:eek: [/B]

LOL, I love it!

Actually, I do the same, stop behind traffic that is, not wet myself.

Anything I've ever read about bicycle safety says to keep your place in line. Having said that, however, there are times when I've passed traffic on the right, watching out for opening doors, mirrors, and right turning traffic.

As others have pointed out, every situation is different, and you have to be flexible and take advantage of it.

Originally posted by bikeman
I don't get it. How does sliding up the side of traffic and taking a place in front of a line of vehicles that out-weigh and out-size you make you safer?

Simply because it gets you through the intersection much quicker. In comparing myself on my bike to motorists, I have noted that I have greater acceleration, but a lesser top speed than a car. Essentially, this means two things about stopping at the back of the queue:

1. I'm going to get held up initially as the queue moves.

2. I'm going to hold up motorists behind me trying to get to the intersection when we reach top speed.

Now consider the position of moving to the front of the queue:

1. I'm going to be able to accelerate through the intersection faster than anyone else (except, perhaps, another cyclist).

2. When the time comes that the motorist has to pass me, the intersection will be gone, and hence it will be safer and easier for both cyclist and motorist in the situation.

Originally posted by Allister
My basic view is this: if motorists have no problem splitting the lane to pass me, why should they have a problem with me doing the same thing? I have no sympathy for the argument that they find it difficult to pass cyclists. Well boohoohoo. Nowhere in the rules is it written that motorist must be able to pass cyclists in all situations without so much as a nanosecond's delay. If they can't pass safely, they shouldn't pass at all.

If they're approaching a red light, then passing is pointless anyway - I've lost count of the number of times some hoon pass brushed by me in his mad haste to get to the red light 1.2 seconds faster, but at great risk to my safety. It's these morons that I take much delight in passing at the lights, and sitting in the entire lane in front of them. Now THAT really pisses them off - in fact I hope it ruins their entire day.

Not only that. How often has an inoffensive cyclist who was even not at a set of traffic lights been the target of so-called "road rage". In my experience, this seems to happen more often in light, flowing traffic than it does in heavy traffic situations. This would suggest that most of the time, the motoring primate is releasing the frustrations of the day on the unsuspecting cyclist, rather than being "held up".

My point is this: How does one reliably measure the amount of frustration that actually comes directly from having to pass the cyclist? As has already been stated, they have no problem passing us when we are the slower vehicle, therefore I have no problem passing them when the roles are reversed.

Originally posted by Chris L
How does one reliably measure the amount of frustration that actually comes directly from having to pass the cyclist?]

Well, one can't. Think of it this way. If ninety nine cars pass you without so much as a murmur coming from the driver, but the hundredth one flips his wig, I would say with 99% certainty that it's not passing the cyclist that's causing the problem. I'd look somewhere else for the cause, and I'd start looking for any mental imbalances, no matter how 'temporary', in that hundredth driver.

It's about time road ragers start taking responsibility for their own emotional state.

Originally posted by Chris L


Simply because it gets you through the intersection much quicker. In comparing myself on my bike to motorists, I have noted that I have greater acceleration, but a lesser top speed than a car. Essentially, this means two things about stopping at the back of the queue:

1. I'm going to get held up initially as the queue moves.

2. I'm going to hold up motorists behind me trying to get to the intersection when we reach top speed.

Now consider the position of moving to the front of the queue:

1. I'm going to be able to accelerate through the intersection faster than anyone else (except, perhaps, another cyclist).

2. When the time comes that the motorist has to pass me, the intersection will be gone, and hence it will be safer and easier for both cyclist and motorist in the situation.

I actually agree with everything Chris has to say here. In front, I feel like I can beat the cars off the line and position myself safer to get passed by them. Plus, out in front I am seen by everyone. I can't tell you how many times I have been hanging back in the flow of traffic on a four lane, and those pedal happy fools change lanes right into me without checking their blind spots.

Manderax
I ride. I fall down. I get up.
Meanwhile, I keep dancing.

Originally posted by manderax
I can't tell you how many times I have been hanging back in the flow of traffic on a four lane, and those pedal happy fools change lanes right into me without checking their blind spots.


You might want to rephrase "pedal happy fools". Meanwhile I neglected to mention the big factor about being in front of traffic and taking off before they do. Has anyone else ever been on the receiving end of a left hook (a right hook for those in the US)?

Originally posted by Chris L


Simply because it gets you through the intersection much quicker. In comparing myself on my bike to motorists, I have noted that I have greater acceleration, but a lesser top speed than a car. Essentially, this means two things about stopping at the back of the queue:

1. I'm going to get held up initially as the queue moves.

2. I'm going to hold up motorists behind me trying to get to the intersection when we reach top speed.

Now consider the position of moving to the front of the queue:

1. I'm going to be able to accelerate through the intersection faster than anyone else (except, perhaps, another cyclist).

2. When the time comes that the motorist has to pass me, the intersection will be gone, and hence it will be safer and easier for both cyclist and motorist in the situation.

I changed my undies and I'm back in the game here. :rolleyes:

Well shoot, I have to disagree with you again Chris, this is getting to be a habit with me.

By taking my place in the line, I don't piss off those that have already slowed to pass me earlier, most of them politely doing so, I might add. When I stop I take my part of the lane. When everyone starts to go, I go and keep my portion of the lane until through the light. Nine out of ten times I manage to stay with the vehicle in front of me, in other words, I can maintain the speed of traffic until I get through the light. Then I move to the right and relinquish the lane for the autos to pass me. If traffic is slightly longer than I can maintain the flow, I move over earlier, less cars have to pass me in the end as well.

Bear in mind that those I piss off by doing otherwise, I get to see on the next days ride or commute. How many times a week do you think they'll put up with the little arrogant b*stard on the toy bicycle if I keep pissing them off day in and day out? Like my own private, one bike Critical Mass or something.

I've always said that on my commute, the more I rode, the more the primates got used to me being out there (with a few exceptions of course). The more I managed to obey the rules, the better they seemed to behave as time moved on. Admittedly I've made a couple of serious exceptions to that statement. (And secretly enjoyed it too!) But not very often.

I keep from being right-hooked in intersections by taking the lane as I go through. I also expect to be right hooked so I watch the traffic aft with a weary eye on my mirror. Seems to work.

Originally posted by Gus Riley
By taking my place in the line, I don't piss off those that have already slowed to pass me earlier, most of them politely doing so, I might add.

And I pass them perfectly politely as well. I never go pass where the road is too narrow to do so. If the queue is only very short, I probably will wait my turn, but when it goes for miles (as it does around here for the Indycar race every year), chances are I won't[i] be passed by most of them anyway.

I will also add that on the occasions when I choose to hang back for a shady spot (quite often in summer), if the traffic reaches where I am, the cars will try to squeeze past by any means possible. If they don't like what I do, maybe they should examine their own behaviour.


[i]Originally posted by Gus Riley
Bear in mind that those I piss off by doing otherwise, I get to see on the next days ride or commute. How many times a week do you think they'll put up with the little arrogant b*stard on the toy bicycle if I keep pissing them off day in and day out? Like my own private, one bike Critical Mass or something.

Well, they put up with me for three years on the same route. Given that bikes are always faster out of intersections, very few of them had to slow down to pass me anyway. And as I said, the bulk of the abuse I cop from drivers is in situations that are miles from traffic lights. Additionally, the bulk of abuse I cop from drivers at red lights comes from those who were behind me to start with (i.e. I never had to pass to get in front of them anyway).


Originally posted by Gus Riley
I've always said that on my commute, the more I rode, the more the primates got used to me being out there (with a few exceptions of course). The more I managed to obey the rules, the better they seemed to behave as time moved on. Admittedly I've made a couple of serious exceptions to that statement. (And secretly enjoyed it too!) But not very often.

At many intersections on the Gold Coast, there are specific "bike zone" markings in front of where the cars queue up. I might also add that the traffic laws in Queensland allow cyclists to pass on the left (as Allister indicated previously). In short, by doing what I do, I am not breaking any road rules, so the primates might as well just get used to that one too.

Originally posted by Chris L


At many intersections on the Gold Coast, there are specific "bike zone" markings in front of where the cars queue up. I might also add that the traffic laws in Queensland allow cyclists to pass on the left (as Allister indicated previously). In short, by doing what I do, I am not breaking any road rules, so the primates might as well just get used to that one too.

Goes to show the difference between countries.

Originally posted by Allister
...My basic view is this: if motorists have no problem splitting the lane to pass me, why should they have a problem with me doing the same thing? I have no sympathy for the argument that they find it difficult to pass cyclists. Well boohoohoo. Nowhere in the rules is it written that motorist must be able to pass cyclists in all situations without so much as a nanosecond's delay. If they can't pass safely, they shouldn't pass at all. That's what I do, although it is considerably easier to pass on a bicycle.

If they're approaching a red light, then passing is pointless anyway - I've lost count of the number of times some hoon pass brushed by me in his mad haste to get to the red light 1.2 seconds faster, but at great risk to my safety. It's these morons that I take much delight in passing at the lights, and sitting in the entire lane in front of them. Now THAT really pisses them off - in fact I hope it ruins their entire day.

You could not have captured my sentiments more precisely.

Since there is usually at least 1 car offset from the others blocking me from passing on the right, I often pass them on the outside of the curb lane. Unlike motorists, I (like many cyclists) have learned to pay attention to the timing of the traffic lights and I use this to my advantage. I either jump the whole queue or I merge back to the curb as I find my place in the accelerating traffic.

I've tried both ways, for many of the various reasons suggested, but lately -- as I've gotten more convinced that I can actually communicate with traffic (like being convinced I can talk to animals, perhaps) -- I've generally made a point of taking my place in line.

I actually feel safer this way, although admittedly I still feel goofy at times for not appearing to acknowledge that I'm on a nimble and narrow vehicle that *could* just slide up to the front and scoot ahead.

I've tried sliding up the side, however, and I don't like it, as I feel that I am less visible and less predictable than I would be if I were to position myself in the lane. When I take my place in a line of stopped cars, I actually see it as a means and an opportunity to communicate my presence, my intent, and likely behaviour to my fellow drivers. Just the fact that I am where I am communicates my likely behaviour: I am behaving like the other vehicles in the line, and I'm claiming my space. When I'm in middle of the traffic lane in stopped traffic, I know people can see me, and I know they have time to take my presence into account. They are stopped, after all, and it will also take them some time to accelerate. I should, however, point out that I take pains to ensure that I'm visible, and in general I try to look back and around at the drivers around me. Eye contact is good.

In contrast, when I scoot up the side, I feel like I'm forfeiting my place in the "pay attention" zone in order to gain a little distance -- a gain which is quickly lost as I'm eventually overtaken by cars and/or am forced to stop at the next light. Given that I get annoyed by drivers who repeatedly roar past others only to get caught (repeatedly) by red lights, I'm not keen on emulating this behaviour myself. I also find that this technique forces me to repeatedly renegotiate my place in the lane as I try to stay out of the door zone.

Nevertheless, context is important, and I, too, would be inclined to take advantage of my skinny, zippy little bike in some situations, like if it was pretty clear that traffic was locked up and no-one -- 'cept me, on my zippy little bike -- was going anywhere.

In that case, the benefits of taking one's place in line pretty much dry up, and the risks/annoyances of riding through gaps are a lot less, unless you're going very quickly through a possible door zone. It's also a pretty clear illustration of the advantages of a bike, and that's not a bad thing. I'd try not to wet myself doing it, though -- it kinda reduces the coolness quotient.

Originally posted by hunterseeker
I've tried both ways, for many of the various reasons suggested, but lately -- as I've gotten more convinced that I can actually communicate with traffic (like being convinced I can talk to animals, perhaps) -- I've generally made a point of taking my place in line. .........
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Just the fact that I am where I am communicates my likely behaviour: I am behaving like the other vehicles in the line, and I'm claiming my space. When I'm in middle of the traffic lane in stopped traffic, I know people can see me, and I know they have time to take my presence into account. They are stopped, after all, and it will also take them some time to accelerate. I should, however, point out that I take pains to ensure that I'm visible, and in general I try to look back and around at the drivers around me. Eye contact is good...............
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Nevertheless, context is important, and I, too, would be inclined to take advantage of my skinny, zippy little bike in some situations, like if it was pretty clear that traffic was locked up and no-one -- 'cept me, on my zippy little bike -- was going anywhere.

In that case, the benefits of taking one's place in line pretty much dry up, and the risks/annoyances of riding through gaps are a lot less, unless you're going very quickly through a possible door zone. It's also a pretty clear illustration of the advantages of a bike, and that's not a bad thing. I'd try not to wet myself doing it, though -- it kinda reduces the coolness quotient.

I think you are generally right (including the coolness thing ;)). On my busier commute route I start joining a nose-to-tail queue to get into Canterbury about a mile - two miles outside the city centre with its 1950's ring-road. If the traffic is moving at about 10 mph or more I don't see any point overtaking, even though I could crank it up to 15 or so and cycle between the lanes, merging into the traffic when something wide is coming the other way. I also wouldn't bother unless the queue is over 10 or so car lengths.

If the traffic is doing much less than this though, I'll happily glide past them on the right.

It's all a case of balancing risk I suppose. One thing I try and avoid doing is squeezing through on the left (right for those of you who drive on the other side of road (I won't say wrong ;)). Motorists seem to take you more seriously the further you are from the curb, as well as the fact they are used to looking to their right (think left in US etc.). When cueing I make sure I place myself directly in line with the drivers.

Richard

Originally posted by aturley
I am required by law to ride in bike lanes if they are there. I am required to ride as close to the curb as possible so that I can share the lane with a car.

Same here in Finland. Also, in cities you often find that the rightmost line (think leftmost in the UK, Ireland etc.:)) is reserved for right-turning traffic only. As a result:

- I ride bike lanes when available
- when riding car lanes I choose the correct one (not necessarily the rightmost (think left in the...)) and
- I ride along that lane all the way to the traffic light, if possible

Keeping with the flow of traffic is certainly possible here, at least during the peak hours. And as bike lanes are more and more frequently available, one is able to choose routes easily. My guess is that currently in downtown Helsinki an average cyclist beats the car in any 5-6 km stretch. Bike messengers can probably push that envelope somewhere close to 10 kms. I would expect the kilometreage to be even higher in any US city?

--J

Originally posted by Gus Riley


By taking my place in the line, I don't piss off those that have already slowed to pass me earlier, most of them politely doing so, I might add. When I stop I take my part of the lane. When everyone starts to go, I go and keep my portion of the lane until through the light. Nine out of ten times I manage to stay with the vehicle in front of me, in other words, I can maintain the speed of traffic until I get through the light. Then I move to the right and relinquish the lane for the autos to pass me. If traffic is slightly longer than I can maintain the flow, I move over earlier, less cars have to pass me in the end as well.



I agree completely. I feel much safer when I take my place in line like a car. I feel that in general, when I can keep up with the flow of traffic (which I usually can at a stoplight), I'm more respected if I take to the middle of the lane. If you act like a car, people will treat you as a serious bicyclist and as apart of the traffic; otherwise, you are more likely to be treated as an inconsequential nuisanc, like a kid on his huffy bike.

Like most others have stated, I do make exceptions when there's a big backup.

Jim L.

You guys have missed an important point. In most of the US it is illegal to pass on the right.

The rules for slow moving vehicles (bicycles and farm equipment) require us to ride as far to right as we can without compromising our own safety but we are not permitted to pass on the right.

So when I come to a traffic light I roll up behind the last car in line and take my place, when the light turns green I accellerate as hard as needed so I can keep up and not block traffic. Once I get thru the intersection I move to the right again.

The only time I break this rule is on an uphill traffic signal where I can't accellerate fast enough to keep up with cars when the light turns green. In these intersections I go to the front and wait next to curb - but I hang back a full car lenth from the corner so I don't get right hooked - when the light turns green I let everyone pass me before I start pedalling.

There is only one intersection here in Branson that really scares me. It is an uphill stop with a right turn lane. I can't safely stay in line and I can't safely pass because of the turn lane. Luckily there is an alternative route.

I just find this 'stay back in the traffic' thing totally bizarre...

I've never heard of anyone doing this before in Australia, and the police instruct you in primary school very clearly to go out into the front of the traffic. (In fact, they don't even bother about motorcycles lane-splitting).

As a car driver, I can tell you that you don't feel better if a bike stays behind - they slow you down and they're in the way. And a bike riding beside you unnerves you, particularly if it's a child/adolescent because they are so unpredictable.

When they at the front at least you can see them.

Originally posted by RainmanP
A bicycle is a wheeled vehicle and subject to the same laws as all other wheeled vehicles. If I expect other drivers to treat me according to the law, I must act according to the law. I therefore take my place in line.
Well I guess that’s a matter of law then. In Sweden bikes are subject to the same laws as other two-wheeled vehicles, which means you can pass on the right and wait upfront. I always do that, I mean that’s the big benefit of cycling!

And I don’t understand you who argue that it’s a danger getting passed by a car. Even if you wait in the lane with the cars, you will get passed by them as soon as they catch up the speed. It’s just that it will be different cars that pass you.

I don’t see why a driver should be angry at a cyclist passing the cars at a light, unless you do it in a rude way. They might get irritated, but they will know that there’s no reason.

Originally posted by cycletourist
You guys have missed an important point. In most of the US it is illegal to pass on the right.
Oh, this explains the whole issue and my (and others) frustration at it! ;)

There is another good web site on "how to not get hit". They suggest that you stay in your place in the line of cars, but you may need to move forward to be seen by the car beside you. Or, you may need to move back so as to not be in the blind spot of the car in front of you.

Interesting thread. I'm becoming convinced that this is one of the few issues in traffic cycling that people who actually know what they're doing can have significant disagreement about.

For what it's worth, I wait my turn. In my experience, it just pisses motorists off to have to pass a cyclist more than once. After passing me, for example, some drivers will move far over to the curb when approaching a red light. "Don't creep past me" is what they're trying to say. Now, I'm willing to contest my road position as much as anyone here when it matters, but for something like this I'm happy to let drivers have what they want. I'll wait whether they "let me know" this is what they want or not. The cost to me is small, and waiting as cars do reinforces the impression that I'm governed by the same rules, and subject to the same protections, as they are.

Drivers here see this as a significant and unexpected act of courtesy. Many are amazed to see a cyclist riding responsibly. It does help generate goodwill, I'm convinced, so I do it.

I don't live in a high traffic area. If I did, I would vary my actions more. I am entitled legally to pass on the right, and I would do this if traffic were bumper to bumper for some distance. That doesn't happen where I live, though, outside of a DUI checkpoint or something.

I take my place in line. I feel more visible and less likely to be squeezed to the curb or endangered by an eager right-turning driver. I haven't yet had anyone express anger toward me for doing so.

-Rob