Electric Bikes - Future of electric bicycles

for fast charging batteries..

they are not hear in 5 or 10years..
they are already here for 1 year now !
iam a rc-heli-pilot, and we use this kind of batts for 1 year now..

charging:
i normaly charge with 4C (= 4times the current than the capacity of the battery)
charged this way, the cells are full after around 14-16min

friends are using homebuild charger with up to 10-11C charging current.
they fill the batteries up to 90% of there capacity in 4min 30sec. !

a batterypack for a e-bike (36V, 10Ah) would need about
1680Watt of Power when you want to charge it in 15min
with the looses of the charger (charger-efficience) let us say: less than 2000Watt


2000Watt -> there are hairdryers and vacuum cleaners with that power
so it should work with any 230V/110V supply

i think after a 20+ miles ride a stop of 14min would be ok..
charging only 5min would still be enough to go for some further 10miles

so: the batteries are here, and we use them..
another benefit: they are VERY robust (electrically)
we have managed to get 1000cycles out of this batteries, at high charge-conditions..
at same conditions (but lower charge-current) out
NiMh cells seldom get over 200cycles, more like 100-150cycles
and Lipos also see seldom the 200cycles mark...

at same condition we can make OVER 1000cycles (with an 20% capacity loose) with this A123 Fepo4 cells (tested !!, not only advertisment from manufactor)

so fast charging is not a unfullfilled wish.. its already here and buyable by everyone since 1 year

for lifetime: the manufactor (we are not able to test THAT) says: batterylife/calenderlife:
more than 10years
(batterymanufactor say 4-6years for most NiMh and 2-3years for LiPos)

and for driving bikes in cities..
i have a nice idea..

here in vienna 3 years ago the was a action: over 1000bikes were place all over the city by the city-government, for free use
resüme: hundrets of bikes were stolen, not returend

so they modified it:
every bike is no "closed" and logged by an mechanism..
when you want to use a bike, you have to register once with your bank-card on an terminal.
so they know who you are.. this costs 1 Euro..

driving the bike is free for 1 hour
costs 1 euro for 2 hours
costs 2 euro for 3 hours
...
..

when you have finished driving, you bring it to a bike-station (there are duzzonds all over the city), logg the bike again and you are logged out of the system
when your time is under 1 hour you pay nothing, otherwise its taken from your bank-card/creditcard

so: said this - it works great
no stolen/not returened bikes anymore..
my girlfriend drives to here work (~30min) every day for free
and home again

now my idea:
the bikes could all be electric !!
most people drive less than an our..
whent he bike is returend, and logged by the mechanism, it should be automatically connected to a charger
so when the next user comes (maybe 20min later) the bike is already recharged again
assuming that most people drive maybe 3-5miles and not more at once, the bike should be recharged in some few minutes..

also: when you rent a bike the computer should tell you which bike is fully charged, or for how many miles each bike is cabable (with current charge-state) to go..
when i only want to go 5miles to work, i don´t need a fully charged bike for example..

this would be cool !
i think many people would use the bikes even more (and for longer distances)

another thing: i would wish, that parking-space in vienna would be cost-free for electric cars..
and/or at least: at parking slots were you have to pay same price as for normal car, but with an electric-plug to charge your car for free !

in vienna parking a car costs over 200euro a month

last:
for the idea of bike were the motor uses the gears of the bike
(like http://www.cyclone-usa.com/ )

there is also already such a bike..
its maybe the most advanced out there (in my eyes) ?!?

the bikes from biketec in swizzerland

here a link to the catalog:
http://www.biketec.ch/m/mandanten/145/topic8549/story23456.html
(unfortunatly a "flash-catalog"
you can jump through the catalog with the cursor buttons on the button or with "inhaltsverzeichnis" on and selecting directly

http://www.cyclone-usa.com/http://www.wenger-2-rad.ch/bilder/2005/elektro/flyer/flyer_f8.jpg
full suspension biketec FLYER F8...

the cool thing on the biketec flyer:
1.) it uses a direct-drivemotor.. the motor is integreated in the pedals, about diameter of the big gear..
for that the motor works noiceless, not like the cyclone-usa with uses a gearbox (= noise)
2.) a electronics measures the power you pedal (not only the rpms like most of the e-bikes do (its cheap), but the real torque you pedal is measured).. it works very smoothlee, better than at any other bikes on the market and is very intuive to use
3.) of course - its a great hill-climber..

you can get for exmple the Flyer F8 with
7 gears, 14, 21 or 27gears or even with the 14gears rolof-speedhub gear

i think its in the moment one of the best e-bikes out there..
has also won a lot of tests..


here detailed pic of the T-series:
http://www.biketec.ch/m/mandanten/145/download/FLYER_T-Serie_Herren.jpg

for fast charging batteries..

they are not hear in 5 or 10years..
they are already here for 1 year now !
iam a rc-heli-pilot, and we use this kind of batts for 1 year now..

charging:
i normaly charge with 4C (= 4times the current than the capacity of the battery)
charged this way, the cells are full after around 14-16min

friends are using homebuild charger with up to 10-11C charging current.
they fill the batteries up to 90% of there capacity in 4min 30sec. !

a batterypack for a e-bike (36V, 10Ah) would need about
1680Watt of Power when you want to charge it in 15min
with the looses of the charger (charger-efficience) let us say: less than 2000Watt


2000Watt -> there are hairdryers and vacuum cleaners with that power
so it should work with any 230V/110V supply

i think after a 20+ miles ride a stop of 14min would be ok..
charging only 5min would still be enough to go for some further 10miles

so: the batteries are here, and we use them..
another benefit: they are VERY robust (electrically)
we have managed to get 1000cycles out of this batteries, at high charge-conditions..
at same conditions (but lower charge-current) out
NiMh cells seldom get over 200cycles, more like 100-150cycles
and Lipos also see seldom the 200cycles mark...

at same condition we can make OVER 1000cycles (with an 20% capacity loose) with this A123 Fepo4 cells (tested !!, not only advertisment from manufactor)

so fast charging is not a unfullfilled wish.. its already here and buyable by everyone since 1 year

for lifetime: the manufactor (we are not able to test THAT) says: batterylife/calenderlife:
more than 10years
(batterymanufactor say 4-6years for most NiMh and 2-3years for LiPos)
Kokam lipo batteries have taken RC abuse for a few years with good results.Some ebikers have also had great results with them as well as record setting electric battery cars.Yes the technology IS here NOW! It might take some volume pruchase power to get the ebike packs made at a much better price.1000 Kokam packs would cost about one half the price per watt hour than RC packs right now. Before any ebike manufacture gets to the point of including larger lipo packs with a complete ebike they would need to make lighter more efficient motors to get the best use of these lipo batteries.Otherwise wasting battery power would be a shame in the pocket book.I discussed this with Michale Jones ( the founder of Phoenix Motorcars) at a meeting in Lahaina Yacht Club a few years ago about him getting rid of his heavy Advanced DC motors and going brushless as well as going with Kokams. Looks like he did just that.
http://www.kokam.com/english/custom/notice_view.php?page=1&I_idx=5&sch=&key=&no=1

last:
for the idea of bike were the motor uses the gears of the bike
(like http://www.cyclone-usa.com/ )

Panasonic makes an ebike that allows the motor to use the gears as well. Giant used Panasonic's technology on their Lite/Twist models.
http://www.panabyc.co.jp/en/product_du.htm
http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/lite.htm
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=288973
The disadvantage of the Panasonic system is the bike frame has to be designed around the motor unit.

Panasonic makes an ebike that allows the motor to use the gears as well. Giant used Panasonic's technology on their Lite/Twist models.
http://www.panabyc.co.jp/en/product_du.htm
http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/lite.htm
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=288973
The disadvantage of the Panasonic system is the bike frame has to be designed around the motor unit. A geard motor system could be hung on the back axle like a Currie USPD and sold as a kit but the right way to do it with a protected motor a complete ebike would be be a much better package.All ebike kits have some downfalls.

while it is not an electric bike... this looks very interesting

http://www.revopower.com/

but i would love to see a fuel cell powered bike some day soon.

while it is not an electric bike... this looks very interesting

http://www.revopower.com/

but i would love to see a fuel cell powered bike some day soon. Hydrogen takes more power to produce than gasoline or batteries.Its a false economy.

i agree i read that hydrogen while clean burning takes lots of energy to produce.
i was thinking more along the lines of a ethanol based fuel cell

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id30.html

If you pedal normally and use the assist sparingly (only help uphill, etc.) you can expect to use ~10wh/km. 30K miles is 48K Km, so you'd need ~480Kw. With an overall charging eff of ~75%, to get that kinda power in an hour at 115v would take ~5.217KA. That's ~116 times the rating of the baddest household 115v plugs I know of, at 45A. Not gonna happen.
A "recharge" for a pack like this could be done in less than a minute... by swapping the pack.
tks
Lock
Human-electric hybrid pedestrian

No.
I'm rather disappointed that this forum was titled "Electric Bicycles" and not "Motorized Bicycles". For a lot of the uses that people expect, a gasoline-engined bicycle can meet them WAY better than any electric system out there can, and the gas engine setup is still way more fuel-efficient than any other vehicle on the road.
~Can't take a gas vehicle on public transit. Electrifying two wheels means that the energy can come from many sources - nuclear and coal and natural gas, but also hydro and wind and solar...

Many options, and some much cleaner than gas or food for energy. Electrics are odor-free too, with no tailpipe emissions leaking directly into roadways. Zero liquids to either evaporate up your nose or drip on to pavements, get washed into drinking water, then down your throat. Electrics are generally quieter than gas engines?

I am only familiar with personal electric vehicles with motors rated at well less than one horsepower. This is quite a bit less power than most small gas engines...

tks

Lock
Human-electric hybrid pedestrian

I'd like to see a bike with bottom bracket based motor. Something like optibike, but nothing as fancy and more regular looking. With a BB motor, the motor is smaller and lighter (but a little noisier because of the internal gearing), center of gravity is low, you can use normal wheels for both front and back, and the motor will always be operating at peak efficiency because you can use your bike's regular gears. And there might be enough room near the bottom bracket to stuff a battery there too. The whole thing could possibly weigh less than 40 lbs.Earlier, someone mentioned the Protanium® lithium polymer batt pack supplied by Schwinn?

A pic from the Protanium site to sort-of illustrate the diff's between a bike that is pedal-only and one with assist:

"I'd like to see a bike with bottom bracket based motor. Something like optibike, but nothing as fancy and more regular looking. With a BB motor, the motor is smaller and lighter (but a little noisier because of the internal gearing), center of gravity is low, you can use normal wheels for both front and back, and the motor will always be operating at peak efficiency because you can use your bike's regular gears. "


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5496865780878321081

Optibike is like 7 grand, isn't ebikehawaii setup like a few hundred dollars, i'd go for the older setup everytime in that case. Use the $6,500 savings for some expensive batteries..

Optibike is like 7 grand, isn't ebikehawaii setup like a few hundred dollars, i'd go for the older setup everytime in that case. Use the $6,500 savings for some expensive batteries..

While Optibike certainly charges a premium for the power system, on a bicycle component level it's not even comparable to ebikehawaii's setup.
http://www.optibike.com/%20%20index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=24

Perhaps ebikehawaii can give an exact cost breakdown of his bike for comparison. Another thing to keep in mind is I don't think all the parts can be bought for his bike, but I'm sure he can explain what's involved in the construction.

Hydrogen takes more power to produce than gasoline or batteries.Its a false economy.

Hell yeah!

The "Hydrogen economy" is just to maintain a similar type of system as the current gasoline industry where the same companies will simply sell you another fuel.

We're better off by redirecting research money towards better electrical systems rather than wasting it on hydrogen.

I still believe that if we really wanted to, we'd already have a very functional electric car that could meet all our needs.

"After resting for 15 minutes with 1/4 mile to go ..."

WTF? 15 minutes rest when you have only 400M (1/4 mile) to go? I realize it's uphill but just finish the race and then rest for a few hours afterwards.

Go here to read Randy's version of what happened on his volcano climb.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/electric_cycles.htm

Here's a key exerpt from his story.

"After resting for 15 minutes with 1/4 mile to go the 3 in the Mavic team passed me by to win I think 3 in all, I did get a picture of them passing. Just for the hell of it I jumped on my bike and it took off to my surprise and finished in 3 hours and 3 minutes 58 sec, using 37.334 amp/hours in 37.35 miles."

I'll add the rest of the true story as I was with Gary Prime on that fateful day.

Gary Prime, CEO of Evercel, Inc. was waiting at the top of the volcano. When he saw the lycra clad non-power assist riders cross the line first, he spit his coffee out and threw his clipboard to the ground. He began to stomp on it angrily shouting "Damn that Draper!!! All of our investors are watching this event!!! They've decided to invest in team Mavic's wardrobe for next year instead!!!! I HATE YOU DRAPER!!!!!!!". Evercel, Inc. was finished after that. The world never got nickel zinc batteries all becasue Randy is a loser.

Robbie

So that's what happened to Evercel! Thanks for the info. :)

So that's what happened to Evercel! Thanks for the info. :) Info from liers that chase me around the forums will not help anything.

If you yourself were not a liar Randy, why would you need to change forums so often?

Robbie

If you yourself were not a liar Randy, why would you need to change forums so often?

Robbie For calling people like you names you deserve and when that happens no one will get anymore productive information.

I don't understand why you think I deserve to be called names? I'm not calling you names? I'm only asking that you be consistent and accurate when you make claims. Does this make me a bad person?


Robbie

Did you mean without changing the battery one time?
Possibly, there is a company down in Texas that has said they will ship this year, an ultracapacitor that will have 2.8-3 x the power density of NiMH at HALF the cost of lead acid and millions of charge cycles. The first units are going to ZENN cars in Toronto who say they will be shipping the cars next year. Claims include working down to-20C, scalable from pacemakers to trucks and protection against catastrophic shorting.
I have to say I have some skepticism, but if they do it, it changes everything.
Look for eestor on google.


Ah, the Flux capacitor eh?

Future of ebikes... OK, lessee...
Design priorities are *not* speed and distance, but SAFETY, COMFORT, PRACTICALITY and RELIABILITY.

Get rid of the pedals, the chains, the sprockets and gears, and the seat, and you get something like this:
http://www.bus-idee.nl/RotterdamSteparoundKickBike.jpg
Make the wheels smaller and you get a form factor that looks something like this:
http://www.znews.com/art/features/currie-gt-tsunami-scooter-s.jpg
In other words, a vehicle that is a couple of feet shorter overall than the Victorian pedal bike, but with the same wheel base.
Make it light weight (less than 50lbs) and a fold-up. Fits in a bag. Flies as luggage. Parks in a closet. Only two moving parts (the wheels.)
Put the lithium in the deck, and make it swapable. Hub motor in the front wheel.
Super reliable. No greasy bits. Tires that don't get flats and smooth pavements.
Kick scoots feature half as many injuries as pedal bikes and those injuries are less severe.

Some will say this is not a "bicycle" (Latin isn't that? For "two wheels", not "two pedals"?) `cause it doesn't have pedals. Go argue with von Drais.
http://www.gernsbach.de/tour/content/images/drais_01_tn.jpg

tks

Lock
Alive, and Kickin', in the T-Dot.

Some will say this is not a "bicycle" (Latin isn't that? For "two wheels", not "two pedals"?) `cause it doesn't have pedals. Go argue with von Drais.
http://www.gernsbach.de/tour/content/images/drais_01_tn.jpg

tks

Lock
Alive, and Kickin', in the T-Dot.

Unfortunately the law usually states bicycles must have useable pedals (as well as electric bikes) good luck getting these things legalized on streets, though it seems like there's no reason why they shouldn't since people jog and walk along streets.

Unfortunately the law usually states bicycles must have useable pedals (as well as electric bikes) good luck getting these things legalized on streets, though it seems like there's no reason why they shouldn't since people jog and walk along streets.
Ontario initially developed their own definition of power-assist bikes, which placed no restriction on power, only top speed (how enlightened! `Course, they also permitted GAS engines as well as electric, but anyway...), however the Province threw out their definition when they announced their 3 year "pilot" program to permit power-assist, and went with the Federal definition instead... Our Fed law reads like this:
"power-assisted bicycle" means a vehicle that:
(a) has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals,
(b) is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground,
(c) is capable of being propelled by muscular power,
(d) has one or more electric motors that have, singly or in combination, the following characteristics:
(i) it has a total continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of each motor, of 500 W or less,
(ii) if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases when the muscular power ceases,
(iii) if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and
(iv) it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground,
(e) bears a label that is permanently affixed by the manufacturer and appears in a conspicuous location stating, in both official languages, that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in this subsection, and
(f) has one of the following safety features,
(i) an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver, or
(ii) a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains a speed of 3 km/h.

So, yeah, it requires pedals, but it does not require that the pedals be used while propelling the vehicle by muscle <grin>

BTW, kick scoots/bikes are much safer than bikes with pedals eh?

In 2000, the US Consumer Products Safety Commission studied (unpowered) kick scooters, when North America was being flooded with cheap kick scoots for kids...

CPSC staff compared scooter injury rates with injury rates for similar products -- including skateboards, in-line skates, and bicycles.

Their study concluded that the "scooters were associated with the lowest rate of injury among those four products, regardless of which exposure measure was used."

In fact they found that the scooter riding kids were having half as many accidents and less serious injuries than their bicycle-riding friends.


tks

Lock

Their study concluded that the "scooters were associated with the lowest rate of injury among those four products, regardless of which exposure measure was used."

In fact they found that the scooter riding kids were having half as many accidents and less serious injuries than their bicycle-riding friends.


tks

Lock
How many miles were they 'scooting' in comparison to their pedaling friends? Raw numbers tell us little about the real risks. I suspect that most micro scooters are used intermittently around footpaths with little attempt to actually travel anywhere on them. I've personally seen a few accidents where kids of my acquaintance inadvertently flipped the front wheel to ninety degrees and were thrown down rather hard onto the ground.

How many miles were they 'scooting' in comparison to their pedaling friends? Raw numbers tell us little about the real risks. I suspect that most micro scooters are used intermittently around footpaths with little attempt to actually travel anywhere on them. I've personally seen a few accidents where kids of my acquaintance inadvertently flipped the front wheel to ninety degrees and were thrown down rather hard onto the ground.

You can read the CPSC report here:
http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA02/os/Scooters.pdf

The CPSC didn't study the vehicles themselves, only analysed hospital admission reports. The study was flawed in many ways. Most of the users were kids, new to scooters, and many of the injuries were due to poor design and construction (sharp metal edges, parts that snapped off, tiny wheels, etc)

Properly designed and built vehicles with experienced riders would produce different results, of course.

tks

Lock

In a Utopian society wouldn't it be the norm to electric bike your way anywhere 10 miles or less? Doesn't solve the freeway problem I guess

Some of the postings lately with the bikes that go 60+ miles an hour, they've got me thinking about the implications to both cops and criminals..

In a Utopian society wouldn't it be the norm to electric bike your way anywhere 10 miles or less? Doesn't solve the freeway problem I guess
I'm surrounded by 5 million souls, 2 mill of whom commute every day, and half of those commute 20km or less. Average trip speed now is less than 20kph.


Some of the postings lately with the bikes that go 60+ miles an hour, they've got me thinking about the implications to both cops and criminals..
hehe... I believe natural selection will take care of the 60mph+ folks :)

tks
Lock

hehe... I believe natural selection will take care of the 60mph+ folks :)

tks
Lock
Yes - I thought the same. From some of the vids on Utube, it seems that some people have missed the point of why motorcycles are built with heavier gauge forks, wheels, frames and brakes - not to mention tyres with strong walls. Some of these fellows are clinging to life by a shred of rubber and their bike parts are probably in the last throes of their fatigue limits. A long and rapid slide along rough tarmac awaits them, I'm afraid; probably to be followed by going under a speeding vehicle piloted by a surprised and soon to be traumatised driver.

A list of funeral planners for their perusal:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=funeral+planners&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enGB216GB216

Even a slow motorcycle will do double that speed, and is load rated to carry 2 adults. DH bike components have a relatively easy life on pavement.

Even a slow motorcycle will do double that speed, and is load rated to carry 2 adults. DH bike components have a relatively easy life on pavement.Even $80. Huffys do great on dirt and road for 10,000s of miles and work well for ebikes.

Even a slow motorcycle will do double that speed, and is load rated to carry 2 adults. DH bike components have a relatively easy life on pavement.


Eh, mopeds go 120mph these days? News to me...

Eh, mopeds go 120mph these days? News to me...

Since when is a moped a motorcycle? A slow motorcycle would be something like an FZR400 which has about 50hp and a top speed around 125mph.

A moped is a limited speed motorcycle, they always have been motorcycles as far as I can tell.

A moped is a limited speed motorcycle, they always have been motorcycles as far as I can tell. Mopeds, motorcycles, ebikes, and bicycles are defined by the laws of the State that you live in.Not the looks. Off road bikes can be ANYTHING with two wheels

A moped is a limited speed motorcycle, they always have been motorcycles as far as I can tell.

A motorcycle needs an M license, while a moped does not. (possibly different depending on where you live)

In the eyes of the law, they are different.

A motorcycle needs an M license, while a moped does not. (possibly different depending on where you live)

In the eyes of the law, they are different. Dahh

Man, I can feel we're close to the dawn of an electric commuting age. I poked around this forum for a few days, thinking maybe I could get one of my old 3-speeds into some kind of electric mode. Learned quite a bit in the process. After hearing about "Regenerative Breaking" and the like, I looked into Segway to see if they had some kind of bikes in the works. Well, no bikes, but they do have a lovely, $26K wheelchair! (http://www.ibotnow.com/) :eek:

At this point, I'm seeing about a $1,000.00 bill (http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/phoenix.htm) to electrify my old bike to any degree of satisfactory service. No doubt that will come down soon. I'm kind of anxious to have a go at it, but right now, that's a lot of loot for a lark! Oh well, the extra exercise will do me good. :)

Edit: Pffft, the future's already here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUXhJZZRUIg)

Man, I can feel we're close to the dawn of an electric commuting age. I poked around this forum for a few days, thinking maybe I could get one of my old 3-speeds into some kind of electric mode. Learned quite a bit in the process. After hearing about "Regenerative Breaking" and the like, I looked into Segway to see if they had some kind of bikes in the works. Well, no bikes, but they do have a lovely, $26K wheelchair! (http://www.ibotnow.com/) :eek:

At this point, I'm seeing about a $1,000.00 bill (http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/phoenix.htm) to electrify my old bike to any degree of satisfactory service. No doubt that will come down soon. I'm kind of anxious to have a go at it, but right now, that's a lot of loot for a lark! Oh well, the extra exercise will do me good. :)

Edit: Pffft, the future's already here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUXhJZZRUIg) You will find that a few off the shelf kits will work fine for 10 mile ranges in semi flat land untill you stress them too much.A better system you could make for less if you had the right knowlege and tools.The motor would be the hardest to find to maintain good efficiency and torque through out a 1-25 mph range without having to pedal.The size and weight of the motor is critical for placement and saving weight.A high power/low weight ratio IMO is the only way to go with the best magnets available and a tight airgap.Well you guessed it a costom motor.A 5lb motor can do over 1600 watts as efficiently as 200 watts to the road and have 3 times the torque as $800. off the shelf motors twice the size.Yet no ebike motor other than a overvolted 20+pound hub motor can come close for torque (at twice or more amprage) as a well designed 4000 rpm motor that will only require a 8 to 1 chain rediction for a 26" wheel. The funny thing is these little 5 lb motors cost less in materials to make and are easier to assemble.The sad part is It apears that there is not enough of a volume market for anyone to make the best at the best price. LOL
The technology has been around for many years.

At this point, I'm seeing about a $1,000.00 bill (http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/phoenix.htm) to electrify my old bike to any degree of satisfactory service. No doubt that will come down soon. I'm kind of anxious to have a go at it, but right now, that's a lot of loot for a lark! Oh well, the extra exercise will do me good. :)

Edit: Pffft, the future's already here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUXhJZZRUIg)

Motor in the rear wheel? Sounds like a hub motor. Anyone have specific info on it, ie: geared single speed, multi speed etc? A quick search only turned up the useless fact that it "uses a new hybrid magnetic technology that combines electro-magnets with permanent magnets to achieve incredible range and power."

Motor in the rear wheel? Sounds like a hub motor. Anyone have specific info on it, ie: geared single speed, multi speed etc? A quick search only turned up the useless fact that it "uses a new hybrid magnetic technology that combines electro-magnets with permanent magnets to achieve incredible range and power."Staton inc figured how to make use of the divincy fast! lol I described my system 4 years ago and he was going to make some parts for me if i got a large order.He's putting 1.4 kw or more in them with bicycle chain and a 18 to 1 gearbox from a Honda engine.The only difference in his sysyem is he has to use a gear box and has the motor freewheel on the motor gearbox instead of the hub next to the pedal freewheel and a nice devinci miltispeed and mine is cheaper three speed and he uses gas.. I'm sure richard made the divinci hubs in his own new shop and they are a piece of art! and do wonders.

Hell yes, the "Motor is housed inside the bike's rear wheel." (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Axel_Corporation's_Hybrid_Bike) That's why it's "Almost noiseless." I like fancy transmissions (http://www.bossbi.com/scooter/segway/iseries.php) as much as the next guy, but don't want to pay for, listen to, or maintain it. I think it's known as the KISS principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle), which doesn't mean crude.

I bought my Fisher & Paykel GWL10 (http://www.theappliancepro.com/proddetfeat7.html) in July 2001 for this reason. Talk about elegant design!

I enjoyed reading about the "Insane-a-cycle" (http://www.electricrider.com/custom/index.htm), but even Dave now says, "If the Phoenix had been available 3 years ago, I probably wouldn't have built the insane-a-cycle. Phoenix costs one-third of what I spent, and its performance is more than anyone can justify. It's the most exciting product I have ridden since the Tidalforce. I think Phoenix makes the most useable, cost-effective light electric vehicle available today." That's where my $1,000.00 mark comes from. I doubt I'd be happy with anything less, or noisier.

In my research, I stumbled onto the Stokemonkey (http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/) "hybrid". Brushless motor sounds great, and using the bike's gears is even better, but I'll pass on the non freewheel sprocket. I'd also like to know why the motor shouldn't go in the main triangle? I'd simply use a frame compatible with that configuration, and forget the added "complexity".

We'll see what shakes out in the next year or so, but it's looking like a superstore's, 48V, hub driven, NiMH powered, impulse purchased, budget bike will usher in the electric wave... :)

Man, I can feel we're close to the dawn of an electric commuting age. I poked around this forum for a few days, thinking maybe I could get one of my old 3-speeds into some kind of electric mode. ....At this point, I'm seeing about a $1,000.00 bill to electrify my old bike to any degree of satisfactory service. ....
If you can live with a 4-cycle engine instead of electric, you can get something very serviceable right now.

...If motorized bicycles are legal where you live of course. Some places they aren't at all, some places only electrics are, which is silly that they would limit motorized bicycle users to a less-practical type of motor than what cars are allowed to use.... but if they want to keep total numbers of bicyclists low, then that's the way to go about it I guess.
~

Hell yes, the "Motor is housed inside the bike's rear wheel." (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Axel_Corporation's_Hybrid_Bike) That's why it's "Almost noiseless." I like fancy transmissions (http://www.bossbi.com/scooter/segway/iseries.php) as much as the next guy, but don't want to pay for, listen to, or maintain it. I think it's known as the KISS principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle), which doesn't mean crude.

I bought my Fisher & Paykel GWL10 (http://www.theappliancepro.com/proddetfeat7.html) in July 2001 for this reason. Talk about elegant design!

I enjoyed reading about the "Insane-a-cycle" (http://www.electricrider.com/custom/index.htm), but even Dave now says, "If the Phoenix had been available 3 years ago, I probably wouldn't have built the insane-a-cycle. Phoenix costs one-third of what I spent, and its performance is more than anyone can justify. It's the most exciting product I have ridden since the Tidalforce. I think Phoenix makes the most useable, cost-effective light electric vehicle available today." That's where my $1,000.00 mark comes from. I doubt I'd be happy with anything less, or noisier.

In my research, I stumbled onto the Stokemonkey (http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/) "hybrid". Brushless motor sounds great, and using the bike's gears is even better, but I'll pass on the non freewheel sprocket. I'd also like to know why the motor shouldn't go in the main triangle? I'd simply use a frame compatible with that configuration, and forget the added "complexity".

We'll see what shakes out in the next year or so, but it's looking like a superstore's, 48V, hub driven, NiMH powered, impulse purchased, budget bike will usher in the electric wave... :)
What's so hard about putting a 5 lb motor on the swing arm by brazing a couple tab motor mounts on it on it?

What's so hard about putting a 5 lb motor on the swing arm by brazing a couple tab motor mounts on it on it?

Because anyone could do that in their living room...

What you have to remember is that what's easy for one person, may be far beyond the ability of another. Now if you could buy a kit all ready to bolt on with simple hand tools, your system would have much greater appeal.

Because anyone could do that in their living room...

What you have to remember is that what's easy for one person, may be far beyond the ability of another. Now if you could buy a kit all ready to bolt on with simple hand tools, your system would have much greater appeal.
If someone manufactured complete ebikes in any reasonable volume that were light and efficient kits would be a memory.

I can cobble anything together, given enough incentive, but I'm getting a taste for something more elegant (http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/r_17.35.AS7_CONTINENTAL_M.jpg). The more I look at the present, the more excited I am about the future. What is expensive and anemic today, will be cheap and powerful tomorrow. No doubt batteries are always going to be on the expensive side, but over the long run, well worth the price.

I can cobble anything together, given enough incentive, but I'm getting a taste for something more elegant (http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/r_17.35.AS7_CONTINENTAL_M.jpg). The more I look at the present, the more excited I am about the future. What is expensive and anemic today, will be cheap and powerful tomorrow. No doubt batteries are always going to be on the expensive side, but over the long run, well worth the price.

http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/r_17.35.AS7_CONTINENTAL_M.jpg

Now that would be an awesome commuter bike. No chain(s) to mess with and no ugly external motors hanging off.