Utility Cycling - "Dutch"-ing a Schwinn Le Tour?

I really need to get my bike set up for better comfort. Finding I am not a fan of drops and missing my previous bikes with the north road style bars. Sooo...

I have a 3 speed hub lying around. I have one of the Wald dual rear basket set ups. Velo Orange has some decent looking bars at decent looking prices, and I'm sure my co-op has some options as well. I'm kind of thinking of a poor man's Dutch bike build.

Some questions in the back of my mind:

Do I swap in new wheels? It has the original steel wheels. I know some folks here have kept the steel and tweaked the brakes. I was also looking at the new Sturmey-Archer catalogue and I'm thinking of going with the 5 speed IGH and drum brake with a dynohub/drum brake up front. Save the 3 speed for another project.

If I swap the wheels, do I get into the 700c v. 27" debate? On one hand, bumping down a size gives me the option of studs in the winter. Or I keep the originals and find a different bike that can run studs.

I'm seriously giving thought, as much as I would just like to get it done, of doing the work myself to learn the skills. Shouldn't be too hard with some trips to the co-op.

Mostly just thinking out loud for my benefit as I contemplate a summer project.

Keep it stock. Flip the bars.

Dutch utility bikes usually have steel, 28 x 1 1/2 wheels(700B).

Dutch utility bikes usually have steel, 28 x 1 1/2 wheels(700B).

Well, poor man's version using as much of what I already have.

My wheels ride pretty well. If I can work on the brakes, or utilize the drum bikes, I don't think they would be half bad.

The idea is having a pretty utility oriented back than can get me up to work, haul stuff, be good in the weather and be pretty reliable. I don't have the $$$ for the awesome Dutch style bikes at the LBS, so I might as well see if I can do it with what I have.

I've already added the north road style bars to my Schwinn Speedster (SA 3spd). I've ordered a black Brooks B66 for it, that should be here Monday afternoon. The bike has full fenders (stock) and a rear rack. I've added a black Wald 135 (front basket), although the jury is still "out" on that. No complaints about the basket, it seems sturdy enough. I'm just not sure I want it on this bike.

Well, poor man's version using as much of what I already have.

My wheels ride pretty well. If I can work on the brakes, or utilize the drum bikes, I don't think they would be half bad.

The idea is having a pretty utility oriented back than can get me up to work, haul stuff, be good in the weather and be pretty reliable. I don't have the $$$ for the awesome Dutch style bikes at the LBS, so I might as well see if I can do it with what I have.

No reason your bike can be updated enough to fill your needs, mate. So don't be discouraged. ;)


I've already added the north road style bars to my Schwinn Speedster (SA 3spd). I've ordered a black Brooks B66 for it, that should be here Monday afternoon. The bike has full fenders (stock) and a rear rack. I've added a black Wald 135 (front basket), although the jury is still "out" on that. No complaints about the basket, it seems sturdy enough. I'm just not sure I want it on this bike.

This post just shows you what can be done for a few buck as you have them to spend to "transform"
your bike into a really nice utility bike.

One item seldom mentioned when bars are changed is the addtion of a fully adjustable stem to
allow the height to be adjust to your needs by putting the bars exactly where you want'em. Invest in some really decent handgrips and enjoy a comfy ride. :thumb:

Fenders, racks etc. can all be added so "transform" away!!:D:D:D

I had a '77 LeTour bock in the day, bought it new. In less than a year I bent three frames hitting Detroit potholes. I gave up on it even though the frames were replace free under the lifetime warrenty. I would not recommend it as a utility bike. They were OK sports bikes for light riders; as a commuter with a strong 185lb rider it did not make the grade.

So far it's survived with me.

I'm probably going to go with new wheels. Seems to be a better choice. I'll save the originals for trade or ebay fodder. Fenders, bell, dyno lights will all be in order.

It was kind of funny today. I was on a group ride today-our local "Critical Manners" that I had helped start last year-with the Schwinn. I only use the back gears. Haven't found much reason to use the front here. At one point one of the other cyclists commented and asked if I rode a lot. He noticed I was riding in a lower gear than most to keep the RPMs going-as he put it, the sign of a better rider. I just laughed and said it was more because I ride it as a 5 speed and sometimes have to gear down to keep going.

I have my regrets in trading off my other bike for this one. Overall, with the ability to swap in an IGH, I think it will be a great city bike.

Aluminum rimmed wheels is the best improvement you can make to that bike, good decision.

Those internal gear hubs weigh a ton. What is the advantage?

1) Ability to put a chain guard/case on it to keep pants clean and reduce the chance of them getting caught in the chain/crank.

2) Gears sealed off from the weather-less chance of wear from dirt and grit.

3) Pretty solid reputation. The wheels aren't dished, so a bit more strength.

4) You can shift without the need for pedaling. Great for those moments when you get caught at an unexpected light.

Aluminum rimmed wheels is the best improvement you can make to that bike, good decision.

Those internal gear hubs weigh a ton. What is the advantage?


1) Ability to put a chain guard/case on it to keep pants clean and reduce the chance of them getting caught in the chain/crank.

2) Gears sealed off from the weather-less chance of wear from dirt and grit.

3) Pretty solid reputation. The wheels aren't dished, so a bit more strength.

4) You can shift without the need for pedaling. Great for those moments when you get caught at an unexpected light.

All of what he said and they really aren't that much heavier when you consider you are eliminating a freewheel, 2 derailleurs, 1 or 2 front chain rings, and some chain. An IGH does change the balance of the bike a bit, but it isn't noticeable when riding for the most part. You also gain a fair amount in reduced maintenance and durability. FWIW I have a couple of Sturmey Archer 3 speeds on old Raleighs that have seen over 20,000 miles of service and are still ticking along just fine.

politicalgeek,
I would go ahead and go for it, worst that could happen is the frame might give out, then you can just swap the stuff over to another one....been there done that more than once.

Here is a link to a very affordable dyno hub from Velo-Orange (http://www.velo-orange.com/nodyhub.html). They also have a Shimano Dyno hub already built into a wheel for $160 (http://www.velo-orange.com/shdyhubwh.html).

Here is a picture of my current "Dutch" bike.:D

Aaron:)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rXxvQDmFvso/SWu0D1eGY8I/AAAAAAAAAIo/ItBgziIQX_A/s512/CIMG0143.JPG

Well depending on the emails I get back from CL, there might be a slight change of plans to this.

There is a mixte frame listed at $10 that might be a better start to this project.

politicalgeek, I've done stuff like this. In fact, I'm in the midst of it with my commuter bike which originally had drop bars. I have north road bars on it now but am about to try some nearly-flat bars, as the north road bars create a reach that's too short for me.

But before you go any farther, check out what new bikes cost. Find a bike you like. Bear its price and qualities in mind as you prepare to embark on the conversion process.

Having said that, it's a lot of fun to do these conversions.

Where do you live, and what is this co-op you're speaking of?


I like the idea of changing to an internally geared hub. So what if it's heavy? Weight is not the critical thing in a bike like this.

However, I do recommend aluminum rims.

So we're changing the hubs and the rims, so we're talking about building new wheels. This is the most fun type of bike maintenance. Lots of folks on bikeforums have learned to build their own wheels, and I recommend it. It's probably not cost effective to have them built for you.

Check to see if your bike can hold 700c rims. It would require moving your brake pads down by 4mm. It's probably possible. This will make a wide variety of rims and tires available to you. 27" stuff is available but becoming scarce. It's not a crisis, and it probably won't ever be, but the variety available just isn't as good.

Columbus,OH and Third Hand Co-Op. For those that might not know, co-ops are usually places where you can grab some stand time, get help with mechanics, use the tools and scrounge for parts.

I probably will give wheel building a shot, at least on one of the projects this summer.

I may splurge one of these days on a new bike. But my riding is mostly in the city. I feel better having a bike that doesn't stand out.

I know what you mean. Most of my many bikes are ugly or non-descript, and that's fine by me.

Here is a picture of my current "Dutch" bike.:D

Aaron:)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rXxvQDmFvso/SWu0D1eGY8I/AAAAAAAAAIo/ItBgziIQX_A/s512/CIMG0143.JPG



Love those panniers...who makes them?

I know what you mean. Most of my many bikes are ugly or non-descript, and that's fine by me.

I would love to splurge and buy a new bike or frame (maybe a Kogswell), but on my budget I can probably get a lot more bike for $50-60 from CL, the Co-op or a yard sale and put $100-200 in my parts on it than I could going to an LBS with $300-400.

Depending on how much work you can do, want to do, or want to learn how to do there are lots options. What I have found though is that dollars can really add up quickly when you are buying parts.

If you really want IGH and dyno then you could get hubs, rims and build your own wheels.

It would probably be a lot cheaper if you don't go igh and dyno and just simplify

If you want to keep your frame, you could get a set of aluminum rim wheels either from a donor bike or from some place like Niagra Cycles.

Set you self up for single chain ring up front and whatever number of rings works in the back, using a simple thumb shifter.....this will let you use a chain guard. You still have a rear derailer...but it is cheaper.

Get some North/nitto type bars and a stem to make them higher.

what ever seat fits you....I got a b17...but that is bigger budget item

fenders of course

rack and baskets/panniers

go for something like the romisen for your light, simple, lots of light, easy to carry a couple of spare batteries. (search the lighting forum)

I've have done this and it works well for me (I've posted the bike a bunch search this forum for "japanese 8 speed" to take a peek)

Love those panniers...who makes them?

Basil (http://www.basil.nl/gb/home/) mine are the Karavan II model.

Aaron:)

Depending on how much work you can do, want to do, or want to learn how to do there are lots options. What I have found though is that dollars can really add up quickly when you are buying parts.

If you really want IGH and dyno then you could get hubs, rims and build your own wheels.

It would probably be a lot cheaper if you don't go igh and dyno and just simplify

If you want to keep your frame, you could get a set of aluminum rim wheels either from a donor bike or from some place like Niagra Cycles.

Set you self up for single chain ring up front and whatever number of rings works in the back, using a simple thumb shifter.....this will let you use a chain guard. You still have a rear derailer...but it is cheaper.

Get some North/nitto type bars and a stem to make them higher.

what ever seat fits you....I got a b17...but that is bigger budget item

fenders of course

rack and baskets/panniers

go for something like the romisen for your light, simple, lots of light, easy to carry a couple of spare batteries. (search the lighting forum)

I've have done this and it works well for me (I've posted the bike a bunch search this forum for "japanese 8 speed" to take a peek)

Personally I have always felt that cost isn't too much of an issue when it comes to bike-even the old ones. Say I spent $200 to get a set of wheels made. I'm still coming out ahead of what I would typically spend on a car in a given year. If the bike was just going to be a recreational deal, I would probably economize. But transportation?

I think all LeTours came with alloy rims.

Depends on the year from what I have come to understand. Mine is late '70s and has a nice set of steel wheels.

Oh, gee. In that case, I highly recommend a set of aluminum rims. It will make a big difference.

Personally I have always felt that cost isn't too much of an issue when it comes to bike-even the old ones. Say I spent $200 to get a set of wheels made. I'm still coming out ahead of what I would typically spend on a car in a given year. If the bike was just going to be a recreational deal, I would probably economize. But transportation?

I was going by your previous posts in that you wanted to be careful with your budget. I think that you are looking at a lot more than 200 to have wheels made..... If you look a velo orange a pre built front dyno and an 8sp igh are going to run $360 total. (a Pair of 105 hub freewheel are $195) Pre built wheels are usually less expensive than custom built wheels.

parts (velo orange again) for a front dyno roughly $122 ($36 rim, $50 hub, $36 for spokes)

Building your own wheels as an option is totally doable (especially with a coop)

I am not trying to disuade you from igh/dyno....just noting that not going igh/dyno is cheaper.

I want to watch the budget slightly. A few hundred on a vintage bike of pretty decent quality is easier on me than 300-400 on a new bike that would attract far more attention.

I have a 3 speed hub just sitting here. So the hub cost won't be that much for the rear. VO also has their new dynohub at $50. So I just need a quote from the LBS on lacing the two up to a set of rims.

Down the road I would love to contemplate a complete DIY bike build including wheels. Nashbar has a few frames I might look at, might keep an eye on CL, co-op and yard sale deals.

I've seen the pictures of your bike on here before, SD. It;s always great to see what one can do with these things. I may even hold off on making this a complete utility bike. Might wait for a more suitable frame to come along (say a mixte or other step through style).

Yeah, Nashbar has some $100 frames. Pretty irresistible. But do you have spare parts? Things like brake hangers and cable clips will nickel and dime you to death.

Yeah, Nashbar has some $100 frames. Pretty irresistible. But do you have spare parts? Things like brake hangers and cable clips will nickel and dime you to death.

That's one thing I have to consider. When the time comes, I'll take a look. The one appeal to a new bike build, even a Nashbar frame, is the wider range of parts. Unlike my Schwinn which has a few funky part sizes.

I was going by your previous posts in that you wanted to be careful with your budget. I think that you are looking at a lot more than 200 to have wheels made..... If you look a velo orange a pre built front dyno and an 8sp igh are going to run $360 total. (a Pair of 105 hub freewheel are $195) Pre built wheels are usually less expensive than custom built wheels.

parts (velo orange again) for a front dyno roughly $122 ($36 rim, $50 hub, $36 for spokes)

Building your own wheels as an option is totally doable (especially with a coop)

I am not trying to disuade you from igh/dyno....just noting that not going igh/dyno is cheaper

This one of those pay me now or pay me later issues. An IGH may have a higher up front cost than a derailleur system, but even the lowest priced IGH is of equivalent quality or in some cases better than most mid priced derailleur systems. Your pay back comes down the road when you aren't replacing chains, and freewheels on a biannual basis, cleaning the chain and cogs every other week, or dealing with a gummed up drive train on a day when you are late for work. FWIW I have a couple of old Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs with well over 20,000 miles on them that I broke down for a check, they are still clean inside and showing minimal wear, greased the bearing, slapped them back together gave them a shot of oil and off they go, still ticking away. On a derailleur system used under similar conditions, I probably would be on my 4th or 5th chain, second or third freewheel and chain ring set. AFAICR I have only put 2 chains on one of those bikes since I bought it in 1982, it is due for another one.

IMHO too many people look at the initial cost but don't look at future cost. Kind of like buying something based on the monthly payment, but overlooking the total cost of 2-3 times the actual price down the road.

On the dyno hub you are eliminating the cost and hassle of batteries, if you go with LED lights you get rid of the burned out bulb problem. If you only ride occasionally at night the cost of the dyno is higher, but it is always ready to go, no if's ands or buts.

Aaron:)

wahoonc, excellent point. The old Sturmey Archer AW (wide) model was reliable beyond description. The trouble is that it's hard to evaluate the monetary value of reliability.

I have an old AW hub sitting around waiting for a purpose. I don't ride it because the gears are spaced too wide apart. I may try one of the new hubs because Sturmey Archer and Shimano now make them again with narrow spaced gears.

Put a Brooks sprung saddle on it today. Man what a difference.

Thought I would weigh in here with a positive comment. Lacing wheels is not that hard even if you have not done it before you should be able to build a wheel in a couple of hours. There are even webpages that tell you how, or the "The Bicycle Wheel" is a good book on building wheels. One trick is to have an wheel to look at while you are building the new one.

I tend to disagree with the folks who say alloy rims are a lot better than steel rims. On utility bikes that are not being ridden at high speeds you hardly notice any difference. And while it is true that alloy does brake better in the wet, a clean steel wheel brakes better in the dry. On a utility bicycle in my opinion it is six of one and a half dozen of the other. I built alloy rimed wheels for my Dunelt three speed, so I have a direct comparison with both the alloy and the steel wheels being true and round. The reason I built the new wheels is because the front was not original anyway and it cost about the same as buying a decent original front wheel. I had spare hubs, so I only needed rims and spokes.

Yes, whether you feel it depends on how much weight you carry and how fast you ride. I tend to ride hard, so I appreciate the weight savings. I ride heavy bikes with light rims and tires.

Put a Brooks sprung saddle on it today. Man what a difference.
:thumb:
Which saddle? A B67? I just ordered a couple more for my bikes, got a B67 in black for my Twenty and Compact RSW (they share a saddle:lol:) and a Champion Flyer for my Giant Expedition bike.

Aaron:)

It was the only sprung one they had in the LBS. 15% off too.

Just ordered a SA front dyno hub with drum brake off of AE Bike. Their price wasn't far off from the Velo Orange dyno hub. The drum brake up front should make those winter and rainy commutes better.

Our co-op is doing a parts swap on Sunday. I may check them out for a few things. I'm really torn now between keeping this a road bike and playing with the drops to find a position that works and making it upright. I guess we'll see what I can find Sunday.

And I found a set of B&M dynamo powered lights at our co-op's swap meet today. Picked up a Lumotec Oval Plus and Dtoplight Plus for $30.

Wow, you're really on your way. Maybe you should paint a fake Dutch name on the frame!

Basil (http://www.basil.nl/gb/home/) mine are the Karavan II model.

Aaron:)


Gorgeous stuff there...

Wow, you're really on your way. Maybe you should paint a fake Dutch name on the frame!

Hi could name it after a state in the US...seems to be the German way (http://staiger.bike-zone.nl/).;):lol:

FWIW I have a Staiger Florida (http://2whls3spds.blogspot.com/2009/01/learn-new-language.html).

Aaron:)

And I found a set of B&M dynamo powered lights at our co-op's swap meet today. Picked up a Lumotec Oval Plus and Dtoplight Plus for $30.

:thumb:

Good deal!

Aaron:)

:thumb:

Good deal!

Aaron:)

I went thinking I might find a pair of drops that would fit me better. Who knew I would luck into a set of dyno lights at a good deal?

The gentleman selling them related his "D'oh!" moment on how he came into the light set. He had bought the bike with the front dyno hub and the lights. Gave the front wheel away to a friend before realizing he had given away a front wheel laced to a SON hub.

I might be leaning towards doing the wheel build myself after all. Anyone have suggestions for this type (S-A AW 3 speed in back and a new S-A front dyno/drum brake up front)?

I had one suggestion to use DT Alpine spokes-or at least something thick enough for the AW's spoke holes. Any thoughts on rims? The Velocity Dyad or the Sun Rhino Lite are two ideas so far.

I might be leaning towards doing the wheel build myself after all. Anyone have suggestions for this type (S-A AW 3 speed in back and a new S-A front dyno/drum brake up front)?

I had one suggestion to use DT Alpine spokes-or at least something thick enough for the AW's spoke holes. Any thoughts on rims? The Velocity Dyad or the Sun Rhino Lite are two ideas so far.

I like the Sun CR18's I have them on a couple of bikes and they are a great value for the money and look right on any vintage of bike. Sun Rhino Lite would probably be my second choice. Regardless they need to be double wall with eyelets.

Aaron:)

I've seen a couple Le Tours converted to 650b as well. Might be another consideration for me if doing the wheel build myself.

My SA front hub came this week. Now I need to figure out the rims.

Anybody know what a need to connect the light to the dynamo? The wire that is attached to the light has the connecting ends for what I assume is a SON hub. Sturmey's connections is a bit different.

Need to find the memory card to my camera, but crappy cell phone pictures will have to suffice. Finally got bottle cages on the bike. I think the traditional mounting points were a bit too thick for my clamps, so I went a bit unorthodox with bottle placement. Seemed to work just fine tooling around the cul de sac. Other than having to tweak the front one a bit to facilitate having more than just my 2 high gears available. :innocent: :roflmao2:

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff195/ahulvey/401088921_1389176235_0-1.jpg

How do you get the bottles out? They're blocking each other. I can't even figure out how you inserted the second one. Did you insert it before mounting the cage to the frame?

They work. Just a little twist to one side or the other and they come out. I'm still going to play around with the placement, though. Just got too frustrated getting them on and wanted some results.

I got some cool things made my Minoura that let you attach a bottle cage to a frame tube or a handlebar.

Also, there are things that will attach bottles to a seat or seat tube.

I may try some hose clamps from the hard ware store. These are the velo orange clamps. But I think the Schwinn's were a bit over built and these tubes are a little thick for the clamps.