Road Cycling - My Cannondale was destroyed.

A little more than a week ago, a Harley-Davidson ran a red light and hit me as I turned left in the middle of an intersection. My R3000 Cannondale was a total loss (and I was not much better). To add insult to injury, the highway patrolman who covered the accident blamed me, citing me for "making an unsafe maneuver". The guy on the motorcycle claimed he had the light, and the cop claimed he could tell by looking at the skidmarks that the motorcycle had the green light. Figure that one out. He even said I might have to pay for the damage to the Harley. Anyway, it was a painful, expensive lesson. From now on I'll certainly be more vigilant. The only good thing is this: the frame was a bit too big, so I'll be my new one fits. Picture is attached.

man, that @#%$'n stinks
pains me to see your bike that way, you too, hope you're alright
skidmarks as evidence for a light? I'd take that to court.
sad sad sad

One word: court.

One question: witnesses?

How come most bike accidents happen at left turns?
I read that on some bike safety website and notice that your accident happened at a left turn.

Is your bike frame covered in the warranty against this type of accident?

I can feel your pain, the bike must have been very expensive and to have the cop treat you so poorly adds insult to injury.

By the way, I saw some adds in Bicycling Magazine for Lawyers who specialize in bike accidents, maybe you should call one of them for a consultation.

One word: court.

One question: witnesses?

There were no witnesses. I received an unsolicited letter from a lawyer, who apparently trolls the police reports, offering to represent me. I have a natural aversion to lawyers and I can't completely absolve myself of blame -- I still don't know how I didn't see this guy. I had been riding circles waiting for the light to change (to keep from having to un-clip). I guess I was daydreaming.

Interesting to see your back wheel was mangled yet you were at fault for being unsafe. It seems to me that if the Harley was traveling at a normal rate of speed he could have stopped, maneuvered to avoid you.

Get a camera, go out to the intersection at the same time of day and shoot the crap out of EVERY angle. Make sure you include the skid pix, any photos of speed limit signs in the area, etc. Measure the skid pix, measure to the point of impact, etc. and have a friend(s) there to act as scale for the photos (standing at the start and end point of the skids). Measure the distance from the start of the skid to the point directly underneath the light, etc. Find out the model of Harley, calculate the weight of bike and rider (approx is prob. ok) and determine how fast he was traveling by using the weight, skid length data. I'm no accident investigator but I bet the start of a skid doesn't correspond to the instant a driver recognizes a problem (know what I mean?)

Write down everything you remember, in chronological order, (especially the bit about the HP being able to tell because of skids) so you won't have to rely on memory five months from now. Get copies of ALL documents, including medical, bike related, accident reports, tickets, etc.

Were you ticketed? Is it wrtitten down that you were at fault? Was there an actual investigation by a TRAINED investigator? Who was the responding officer? Was there more than one cop on scene? Ambulance crews? Firemen? Call the HP and ask for the patrolman's training log with regard to accident investigation. Record the time, date, name of each person regarding any call you make or receive as a result of this. It goes without saying to:

GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!!

You get the idea. Unfortunately, you are now in for months of BS. It's frustrating for sure, but remember to keep your head in it, don't say anything about how your injuries are healing, and don't sign ANYTHING until you've run it past a lawyer.


Good luck,
PJBAZ

:eek: Boy that looks painful!

The only positive thing I guess is that you weren't seriously hurt. How fast do you estimate that the guy was going?

Ouch. :(

Glad you're ok. But your bike took a hit... without any compensation for you. It seems easier to blame the cyclist these days... :mad:

How come most bike accidents happen at left turns?
I read that on some bike safety website and notice that your accident happened at a left turn.


cuz the guys going straight misjudge bikers' speed

I am so sorry. I feel so bad. Did you have any kind of witness though? I mean, that is just total crap. I hate motorcyclers anyway.

If he ran the red light was yours also red?
Traffic going straight has the right of way over traffic making a left turn.

If he ran the red light was yours also red?
Traffic going straight has the right of way over traffic making a left turn.

I would assume from his account that he had a green left turn arrow.

Good news: a home property insurance policy should cover almost all of the loss, but
make sure you have pictures of the bike before and after, a scan of the bill of purchase
of the bike, a police report scan as well. Call your insurer.

Bad part: injuries on the body, and damage sustained by the other party, that will
need to be paid by you and/or your insurer, considering the police report (I assume)
reported that you were to blame. Sometimes, the positioning of the vehicles will
automatically pin the blame on one of the parties, no matter what actually happened.

Check with your insurance agent. In some states (NY being one of them) the motorist is always liable for a collision between them and a bicyclist, or pedestrian, or a horse.

Check with your insurance agent. In some states (NY being one of them) the motorist is always liable for a collision between them and a bicyclist, or pedestrian, or a horse.

Whoa whoa, you're saying if I make a left turn on a 2 way street and a car hits me going the opposite direction even though I didn't look, the motorist is liable?

I hate motorcyclers anyway.


...Why?

Find out if the highway patrolman owns a Harley. Owning a Harley is often like being a spoiled brat frat ***, they stick togather and will tell any lie necesary to defend one another.

Not always the case but it is more likely than not.

Whoa whoa, you're saying if I make a left turn on a 2 way street and a car hits me going the opposite direction even though I didn't look, the motorist is liable?

According to my attorney, if a bicyclist runs into the back of your car when you're stopped at a red light, the law says you're liable for his medical bills and property damage.

Whoa whoa, you're saying if I make a left turn on a 2 way street and a car hits me going the opposite direction even though I didn't look, the motorist is liable?


Yes. Not the same as "at fault", but because of New York's no-fault insurance law for drivers, the driver's insurance company is required to pay. Or that's my understanding, anyway... I've (luckily!) never had to rely on it.

-chris

According to my attorney, if a bicyclist runs into the back of your car when you're stopped at a red light, the law says you're liable for his medical bills and property damage.

Holy crap, honestly, no offense, if I were a motorist, I'd be slightly pissed at cyclists too if I ended up footing thousands of dollars of damage cause someone decided to take his hands off the handlebar to open up a can of coke and painted himself all over the back of my car.

Do you know why the law's like this?

Check with your insurance agent. In some states (NY being one of them) the motorist is always liable for a collision between them and a bicyclist, or pedestrian, or a horse.

You'd think if this were in fact the case that people in need of cash (or doctors/lawyers that would want to defraud the system) would be throwing themselves onto the back or hoods of cars more often. This is taken to an extreme, of course, but really probably not much different than the "swoop" tactic, whereby a car full of people (primarily poor or foreign) swoops in front of one vehicle and steps on its brakes causing a rear-end collision, which is the second vehicles "fault" for "following too closely."

Now, about those horses...

... I had been riding circles waiting for the light to change (to keep from having to un-clip)...

I'm sorry about your bike and you. Getting in an accident really sucks.

However, riding in circles at an intersection is a bad, bad practice. Tell me how a motorist is supposed to know when and if a) you're turning at the intersection, b) you're going straight, c) you're going to continue going around in circles, d) you're turning around and going the other direction, or e) you're going to break-off your little circles and go through the intersection? Imagine if a motorcycle or a car (to take an absurd example) went around in circles in front of you -- what would you think the driver's next action would be?

The more that a cyclists acts and behaves as an automobile, and adheres to the recognized rules of the road, the more safe everyone is. I'm pretty sure when driver's get their license they don't get a test question like:

If a cyclists is going around in circles near an intersection, do you:
A. Assume that the cyclist is going straight
B. Assume that the cyclist is turning right
C. Assume that the cyclist is turning left
C. Assume that the cyclist is turning around
D. Put your life on hold, stop the vehicle, and wait until the cyclist commits to whatever direction they seem appropriate

I agree with stevetone on the fact that you may have been acting in an unpredictable manner before the light changed.

However, if you had a green light and the HD had a red light, he is clearly at fault. Check your state laws on this: Isn't a bicycle considered to basically be a pedestrian to a motorized vehicle? (I know a bicycle is considered a vehicle to a pedestrian) If so, there is almost no way you can be at fault.

I'm sorry about your bike and you. Getting in an accident really sucks.

However, riding in circles at an intersection is a bad, bad practice. Tell me how a motorist is supposed to know when and if a) you're turning at the intersection, b) you're going straight, c) you're going to continue going around in circles, d) you're turning around and going the other direction, or e) you're going to break-off your little circles and go through the intersection? Imagine if a motorcycle or a car (to take an absurd example) went around in circles in front of you -- what would you think the driver's next action would be?

The more that a cyclists acts and behaves as an automobile, and adheres to the recognized rules of the road, the more safe everyone is. I'm pretty sure when driver's get their license they don't get a test question like:

If a cyclists is going around in circles near an intersection, do you:
A. Assume that the cyclist is going straight
B. Assume that the cyclist is turning right
C. Assume that the cyclist is turning left
C. Assume that the cyclist is turning around
D. Put your life on hold, stop the vehicle, and wait until the cyclist commits to whatever direction they seem appropriate

I was on a fairly small two-lane road that intersects a four-lane road. He was on the four-lane road coming from my right. We both claimed to have had a green light. As I said, I believe I must share the blame since I didn't see him, even though he ran the light. That's the reason I'm not even trying to get his insurance to pay for my bike.

I'm sorry about your bike and you. Getting in an accident really sucks.

However, riding in circles at an intersection is a bad, bad practice. Tell me how a motorist is supposed to know when and if a) you're turning at the intersection, b) you're going straight, c) you're going to continue going around in circles, d) you're turning around and going the other direction, or e) you're going to break-off your little circles and go through the intersection? Imagine if a motorcycle or a car (to take an absurd example) went around in circles in front of you -- what would you think the driver's next action would be?

The more that a cyclists acts and behaves as an automobile, and adheres to the recognized rules of the road, the more safe everyone is. I'm pretty sure when driver's get their license they don't get a test question like:

If a cyclists is going around in circles near an intersection, do you:
A. Assume that the cyclist is going straight
B. Assume that the cyclist is turning right
C. Assume that the cyclist is turning left
C. Assume that the cyclist is turning around
D. Put your life on hold, stop the vehicle, and wait until the cyclist commits to whatever direction they seem appropriate


cars around here pull that **** all the time at intersections. usually to pull a U-turn or something ******** when they could just as easily pull into someone's driveway, and back out and go the opposite direction (a three-point turn) like every normal human being on the ****ing planet. i've never seen this type of behavior outside of berkeley/oakland (unless there's a "roundabout" or traffic circle), and i've been a lot of places. if i tried to pull that stunt on my bike, i'd probably get run over.

edit: AND THEY NEVER USE THEIR BLINKERS EITHER!!!!!!!

left turns are my least favorite thing to do on a bike...especially here, where 4/5 of all intesections don't have protected left turns (y'know, green arrows)....ARRRRGH!

Holy crap, honestly, no offense, if I were a motorist, I'd be slightly pissed at cyclists too if I ended up footing thousands of dollars of damage cause someone decided to take his hands off the handlebar to open up a can of coke and painted himself all over the back of my car.

Do you know why the law's like this?

The no-fault law is supposed to make sure that in the event that a motorist collides with ANYONE who's not carrying auto insurance, everybody gets taken care of. So it covers pedestrians, bikers, and everybody else... I think it's one of the rare moments when the powers that be have recognised that those who drive around in a 2 or 3-thousand pound block of metal are laible to do damage even without meaning to... And it protects motorists, too, in that (I believe) it's the no-fault clause taht results in coverage in single-party accidents that result from weather conditions or whatever. Of course, I'm no lawyer... this could be total bullsh!t. ;)


-chris

I live in a No-Fault State (NJ). I filed a claim for $500.00 dollars after getting doored and the insurance company paid me close to 2K for my hospital expenses plus pain and suffering.

All it takes if five minutes to fill out the samll claims form. You wonder why cyclist get very little respect on the roads.

I hate motorcyclers anyway.

That's a pathetic and childish attitude. I've been riding motorcycles longer than I have bicycles. I'd love for you to come and explain this generalized attitude to me. In person. And it is "motorcyclists", btw :rolleyes:

If the bike ran a red light, there's no contest. Stay away from the cop and try to make him irrelevant. See if there was a camera at that junction. If there wasn't, forget it, cos you've no chance with a cop on the other side. If there was, take the video to a different police station and ask their advice. What gets me is that this happens to motorbikes all the time. You'd've thought a biker would've been on your side but maybe there's something to the Harley mindset that turns you into a hole. Having ridden pillion on a couple of extremely fast bikes, I know how easy it is to see everything else as just an obstacle to your hugely fast progress. Of course, Harleys are slow motion pigs compared to something like a Ducati so he shouldn't have that excuse. Had his stars and stripes bandana slipped over his eyes for a second or was he changing his Grateful Dead cd?

I live in a No-Fault State (NJ). I filed a claim for $500.00 dollars after getting doored and the insurance company paid me close to 2K for my hospital expenses plus pain and suffering.

All it takes if five minutes to fill out the samll claims form. You wonder why cyclist get very little respect on the roads.

Which is part of the reason why NJ has the highest auto insurance premiums in the nation, with NY being a close second.

Which is part of the reason why NJ has the highest auto insurance premiums in the nation, with NY being a close second.

NJ has the highest auto insurance rates due to fraudulant claims, large pain and suffering awards and little competition. New York City is right there along with New Jersey. In fact, some parts of Brooklyn and the Bronx have higher rates than New Jersey!

I have no problems with "No fault" as it covers a lot of people who would fall into the cracks and receive little or no compensation due to the motorist. Our friend should still file a small claims suit against the insurance company anyway and see what he can get.

When you think about it, auto insurance is no longer cheap unless you're living in the Nebraska! The number of accidents in the tri-state area is incredible and the insurance companies thereaten to pull out of the state if the governor does anything restrictive. Hey.... I've noticed that auto insurance in LA is no bargain either!

I'm on a slow connection and can't see the whole thread. Maybe this was mentioned.
It's possible that there's a problem with the light itself. That is...your light WAS green. But the light that the motorcycle saw was also green i.e., both lanes were green at the same time.

Get a friend and go back out to that site and see if there's a split second when both lights are green.

***

Please keep insulting, hate language out of the Forums.

Thanks,

Rich

I have no problems with "No fault" as it covers a lot of people who would fall into the cracks and receive little or no compensation due to the motorist.

I don't have problems with no-fault per se either. When I was hit 2 years ago her insurance covered all my medical bills, my property damage, and also settled for pain and suffering. What I have problems with are all the shady "lawyers" out there who manipulate the system to benefit themselves.


Our friend should still file a small claims suit against the insurance company anyway and see what he can get.

He would have to file a suit against the person that hit him, not the insurance company. Once the individual is served with papers, the insurance company will represent him in court. It's worth a try and they may settle.