Commuting - 2 Right Turns + 1 U-Turn = Straight?

So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

Do you commonly bend the rules like this, or are you a stickler?


Manderax
I ride. I fall down. I get up.
Meanwhile, I keep dancing.

I guess im a stickler :) I hate cars who do that, i dont do it on my bike...

I've done it once, but I'm such a newbie that I don't mind the little rest that stop light give me.

PH
:D

Originally posted by manderax
So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

I do not do this. Often there is a queue of cars on the other street on which you intend to make a U-turn. This presents a problem and generally makes it easier to just stop at the red light and wait for it to change.

U-turns are illegal almost everywhere in my part of the US. So I don't do it, but I don't think I would anyway because I'd feel so silly. I feel silly enough already looking like a giant fat insect on my bicycle.
:(

Originally posted by manderax
So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

And the point of this is...? Bear in mind that here in Queensland there is no local equivalent of the 'right turn on red' rule (which of course would be a left turn on red). I did hear a rumour that they have it down in Sydney though.

Originally posted by manderax
So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

Do you commonly bend the rules like this, or are you a stickler?


Manderax
I ride. I fall down. I get up.
Meanwhile, I keep dancing.

I'm not sure I understand :confused:

Richard

In the US, nearside turns are legal at a red light. You make a near side turn. Make a U turn, then another nearside turn. You have just crossed the junction.
Its not legal in the UK, but there are places I make a left at a red on a 3 rather than 4 way juntion.

Originally posted by MichaelW
Its not legal in the UK, but there are places I make a left at a red on a 3 rather than 4 way juntion.

Ditto, every morning on my way to work (if the light is against me)

http://interwovendesign.com/graphics/TURN.gif

Does that help clarify things?

PH
:D

Originally posted by purple hayes
http://interwovendesign.com/graphics/TURN.gif

Does that help clarify things?

PH
:D

Wonderful!

As MichaelW said we can't make a turn against the lights over here, although I suppose there is the possibility if they have a separate right/left arrow. Not that I can see the point of making such a relatively complex manovoeur (brain's spellchecker malfunctioning) to save a few seconds...

Richard

Originally posted by Richard D


Not that I can see the point of making such a relatively complex manovoeur (brain's spellchecker malfunctioning) to save a few seconds...

Richard

Complex?? A-hem.

It is less about saving a few seconds and more about keeping moving... keeping the momentum going... and not sitting at the light inhaling tailpipe fumes.

And sure, Chris L., I wouldn't do this in heavy traffic where I would be dodging tons of cars to make the U. But in low-to-moderate conditions...

And I am suprized how many riders are saying they don't do things "because it is illegal". C'mon, I mean how often have you cut a corner through a parking lot, and jumped that quik curb to make that shortcut? Don't misunderstand, I am a very courteous and safe rider, and I have respect for everyone on the road. Hell, I even smile and wave.

One of the reasons I love commuting is the agility and freedom of the bike. Road laws were written for big, cumbersome, clunky cars, then they took those and said, "ok, this applies for bikes, too". Well, bikes fall into a much grayer area. We don't need laws telling us exactly how to behave on a road. Riding is much more organic, less structured, and hence, should be more unregulated.

Stop signs are a perfect example. I commute through a residential section that has a stop sign about every two blocks. At each intersection, I am very safe, I slow to a reasonable speed, look both ways, and cruise through. But I am not going to bring my bike to a complete stop every two-hundred meters. That would be silly.

As such, it is also silly to say that I wouldn't make a quick U-turn just because it is "illegal". If I am riding, and I want to turn around, and I think it to be safe, then dammit, I will turn around. Wouldn't you?

Originally posted by manderax
As such, it is also silly to say that I wouldn't make a quick U-turn just because it is "illegal". If I am riding, and I want to turn around, and I think it to be safe, then dammit, I will turn around. Wouldn't you?
No.

Originally posted by manderax
So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

Do you commonly bend the rules like this, or are you a stickler?


Manderax
I ride. I fall down. I get up.
Meanwhile, I keep dancing.

I do this sometimes, ususally when I am on a side street and am facing a red light at a major street with little or no traffic.

Momentum is my friend.

Originally posted by JonR
No.
I'm a stickler as well (which sometimes bugs my wife when we are commuting on the tandem, but then she's more impatient than I). It's problematic enough to ensure a safe journey through the land of lumbering steel without spending the extra energy figuring out ways to "beat the system" while remaining intact. Two years ago a commuter on my route was run over and killed while performing the maneuver under discussion. I can handle the extra 10 seconds it takes to wait.

No. It would be just as easy and quicker to run the red. By the time you make this manuver the light is likely to change. That midblock U-Turn seems just as unsafe as running the light, drivers sure aren't looking for you to do either but at least they are somewhat alert at intersections.

I commute in Washington DC. Traffic is awful but bikes pretty much get away with anything. So do I with the exceptions of riding the wrong way or on sidewalks.

Originally posted by manderax
It is less about saving a few seconds and more about keeping moving... keeping the momentum going... and not sitting at the light inhaling tailpipe fumes.

That's why you pass the other cars in the queue and get to the front of the light. In any case, if time is so important, why ride a bike at all?


Originally posted by manderax
And sure, Chris L., I wouldn't do this in heavy traffic where I would be dodging tons of cars to make the U. But in low-to-moderate conditions...

In low to moderate conditions, the cars are likely to be travelling much faster, especially if they're trying to reach the green light on that side before it changes to red.


Originally posted by manderax

And I am suprized how many riders are saying they don't do things "because it is illegal". C'mon, I mean how often have you cut a corner through a parking lot, and jumped that quik curb to make that shortcut?

Never. Having seen the way people behave in parking lots around here, picking myself up off such a parking lot after being "hit" would negate any time saving of cutting through. The same goes for jumping curbs and colliding with pedestrians.


Originally posted by manderax
One of the reasons I love commuting is the agility and freedom of the bike. Road laws were written for big, cumbersome, clunky cars, then they took those and said, "ok, this applies for bikes, too". Well, bikes fall into a much grayer area. We don't need laws telling us exactly how to behave on a road. Riding is much more organic, less structured, and hence, should be more unregulated.

Wrong. The rules are written for all road users. They have been around longer than cars have. The only exceptions to this are those that are written into the laws (such as passing traffic on the inside) as being specifically for bikes.


Originally posted by manderax
Stop signs are a perfect example. I commute through a residential section that has a stop sign about every two blocks. At each intersection, I am very safe, I slow to a reasonable speed, look both ways, and cruise through. But I am not going to bring my bike to a complete stop every two-hundred meters. That would be silly.

Fair comment. However, there is a valid reason as to why some intersections only have stop signs and others have more expensive traffic lights.

A
Originally posted by manderax
If I am riding, and I want to turn around, and I think it to be safe, then dammit, I will turn around. Wouldn't you?

In a word, no.

I think I'd have to agree with Manderax. I ride safely and super-alert for potential problems but, darn-it, I love the freedom of bikes. I like the feeling of being unbound by the road. I ride the same general route to/from work but some days I may jump a curb and cross a field and on other days I may not. Some days I may do the right-turn-u-turn-right-turn but other days I may just sit at the redlight and suck on my water bottle. Biking is freedom but that doesn't mean I'm rolling around like a loose cannon. I'm alert, scanning for information and adapting as the environment changes. Every ride is different. I'm sure this attitude may be seen as reckless by some but I don't think so. It's childish, it's a game, it's fun, but I know who'll win in a bike-car confrontation.

Besides, I turned 55 a few months ago so I don't really care what others may think about it :beer: . You know, I used to know all those rules of the road but I forgot 'em...and what was the question again?

I changed this post... I felt the karma coming to get me.

Originally posted by manderax
So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

Do you commonly bend the rules like this, or are you a stickler?



Of course I have done this. I have also cut across medians, parking lots and grassy areas, run lights and stop signs, exceeded the speed limit by as much as 15 mph. (on my bike,) rode on the sidewalk, neglected to signal, passed queues of cars on the right to get to the front, moved into the center of the lane without looking back, entered areas posted "no vehicles allowed," followed too closely...

Having confessed to at least some of my sins, I feel confident enough to say that I try to set a good example.

:angel:

The funny thing is, I often feel more like I'm doing something "wrong" when I am sitting in a left turn-lane like a car,
waiting for the green arrow.

GREEN: GO! (take off like mad...)

Originally posted by manderax


Complex?? A-hem.

Sorry, I was using my local traffic situation.


Originally posted by manderax


We don't need laws telling us exactly how to behave on a road.


Personally I'd rather have them. I'd much rather know where I stand if another vehicle is involved in a collision with me, be they bike or car.


Originally posted by manderax


As such, it is also silly to say that I wouldn't make a quick U-turn just because it is "illegal". If I am riding, and I want to turn around, and I think it to be safe, then dammit, I will turn around. Wouldn't you?

Again no. It irritates me when I see drivers, or other cyclists breaking the rules, so I try not to. Maybe I'm just an anal retentive, but generally (and I'm sure there are exceptions) road regulations are there for a good reason.

Richard

I was standing on a street corner waiting for a city bus yesterday when I saw an intelligent-looking(1) cyclist on a road bike pull this stunt. I felt so ashamed I had to turn my back to him as he rode by. The drivers behind him HAD to think, "He cheated." What else are they going to think: "What a lucky guy! He's immune from the traffic laws that bind us poor clods to our brake pedals." I think not.

Face it: if we cyclists do things like this, and run red lights and stop signs, and ride on the wrong side of the street, we have no room to complain when non-cyclists start to try to make life difficult for us.

--------------
(1) By "intelligent-looking" I mean his handlebars were not upside down, he was wearing a helmet, his fit to the bike was good, he was not carrying a boombox on one shoulder, etc.

Although I outgrew this bad habit decades ago, I do see at least one scenario under which it might make sense. If I am unable to trigger a green light and if I can make the U-turn safely in two sections by taking advantage of a center divider or center/left-turn lane, then I might be tempted to try it. I would do it, however, only if it were clearly safer than proceeding straight through the intersection.

I generally ride a big steel frame bike. It triggers all of the loops I cross. Lord save us from the cities that relegate bikes to routes laid out in quiet neighborhoods. I know one route that has 6 stop signs in 10 blocks.
Two rights and a U? I did one several years ago. I have also made the right turn looped into a driveway, foot down, made a legal left turn, Right turn, and on my way. By the time I finished it all the light had cycled anyway so I did not bother after that. Going to the head of the queue? Usually I stop one car back and in front of the second vehicle and make eye contact. Too many times the first car makes a right turn without warning.

Life is not a race and I do not have medical coverage so I do not take too many chances.

So, you pull up to the red light. All you have to do is turn right, pedal for 100 feet or so, pull a U-turn, take another right, and PRESTO, you are on your way, Right!?

Do you commonly bend the rules like this, or are you a stickler?

Even if you don't particularly care about the law, skipping red lights unnecessarily aggravates motorists. If you commute, be aware that a lot of people see you all the time and know who you are. Having said that, the smile and wave routine probably mitigates the negative effects somewhat.

If you can't get yourself to wait for the light, make your (legal) right turn on red, go down the road to the next street, turn left, and ride parallel for a bit. You can pick up your original path later. This lets you keep the flow you are looking for with fewer disadvantages.

Wackos and cops sometimes decide to do things about cyclists that irritate them. We all get picked on from time to time, but your riding style has a huge impact on your odds.

I stop at red lights. I'm seldom in a hurry and usually grateful for the rest break.

I see this done all the time. I've always thought it was about computer-obsessed roadies who want to keep their average speed up.

This seems a good place to raise a similar question. How do riders treat STOP signs. Cars are supposed to stop, although most only slow down to a walking pace. What about bikes. Are we to come to a complete foot-down stop, slow to a couple miles per hour, what do you do? Just curious.

Nope I don't do that, if I really need to get somewhere fast I take a route withOUT stop signs or lights. All I can say is know your roads and you will be fine!

Super Geek

Just run the red... I treat reds as give-way signs.... what's the big deal?

I would just run the light.

I'm with banerjek and ken - wtf is the hurry? All you do is tick off the other people on the road.

This seems a good place to raise a similar question. How do riders treat STOP signs. Cars are supposed to stop, although most only slow down to a walking pace. What about bikes. Are we to come to a complete foot-down stop, slow to a couple miles per hour, what do you do? Just curious.

No, you use your common sense and slow down enough to get a good look in each direction and have the ability to come to a complete stop if needed. For all intents and purposes it IS a complete stop, just short of a trackstand. I've never known a cop yet who would ticket a cyclist for making the obvious effort to slow enough to ensure he/she can cross the intersection safely, which is a lot different than just blowing through.

there are some threads about it in the murky past, though i guess not old enough for ken to resurrect them. i call this the right-turn fakey, and i used to be completely opposed.. nowadays i'll do it if its a) not marked no-u-turn, b) safe, and c) helpful.

the right turn half-fakey is highly useful through (stop at the u-turn and go straight across, as if you'd made a left from your original direction) to get through tough intersections.

Search for "right fakey"

I'm a bit of a stickler. For 15+ years, I commuted by skateboard and I can tell you some cops are just itching for an excuse to stop a guy on a board. I have always made sure to not give any reason for 'the man' to pay me much attention.

And as for passing other cars in the queue and taking a spot at the front of the line. Never. The cars waiting for the light, usually just passed me. Why would I make them pass me again?

why not just run the red light? Thats what I do. (except if the police are around)
Yes I also jump the queue. For me this is a feature of cycling. During peak times it allows me to keep up with cars. I always check the intersection though. No point in taking a huge risk and just blowing through

I do the...
-right turn
-immediate foot on curb (become pedestrian/parked)
-wait for break in traffic, foot up/become cyclist, left turn from curb/parking
-right turn
In a car, I suppose it's analogous to pulling out of a parking space/lot and pulling into traffic moving to the left (not really a u-turn since you're coming from a parking spot/or coming out of a parking area to go in the opposite direction)...
I don't think it's legal, but at the same time, I don't think it's illegal. Kinda like filtering through traffic.

edit- never knew this was called a right turn fakey. :p

and some wonder why motorists don't like cyclists...

hmm... Seems like a risky move to me. You never know if a car might run the light or jump the gun.

why not just run the red light? Thats what I do. (except if the police are around)
Yes I also jump the queue. For me this is a feature of cycling. During peak times it allows me to keep up with cars. I always check the intersection though. No point in taking a huge risk and just blowing through

That will work till that one cop that you didn't see, sees you.

Why not just stop and take a break?

I've always thought track-stand practice at the light was the most impressive way to deal with a light.

I agree with UncaStuart and Chris L on this one. I have done this in the past, but I will not do this even in a group ride. My friends hate me for it through.

That will work till that one cop that you didn't see, sees you.

Why not just stop and take a break?

I've always thought track-stand practice at the light was the most impressive way to deal with a light.


dont know what a track-stand is
If an officer of the law busts me so be it. For me it beats stopping then having to reaccelerate

dont know what a track-stand is

It's balancing on your wheels without moving or putting a foot down. Probably easiest to do on a fixie with clips. It's a trick I havn't managed to pull off yet.

I'm with banerjek and ken - wtf is the hurry? All you do is tick off the other people on the road.

Tick off people? By safely running a red? Huh, that's news to me. Around here, most drivers view bicycling as, uh, a bit demeaning. I don't think they even recognize us except as something to avoid... which leads me to an interesting point. I've never been honked at for doing anything illegal/not well defined. Just when I'm doing something legal that some motorist doesn't know about, like getting through on the yellow, or riding on the left side of a one way street.
I've run reds/stops in front of cops, and they don't bat an eye. Which I can see because unlike a motorist, the worst case senario, is I kill myself. I don't have several thousand pounds of plastic and steel traveling at excessive speeds to worry about (from the personal responsibility pov). This is why cars require licensing and insurance, but bikes don't. ;)

Tick off people? By safely running a red? Huh, that's news to me...I've never been honked at for doing anything illegal/not well defined. Just when I'm doing something legal that some motorist doesn't know about, like getting through on the yellow, or riding on the left side of a one way street.
I've run reds/stops in front of cops, and they don't bat an eye.
My experience matches lyeinyoureye's observation. Only legal cycling, specifically cycling in a traffic lane that possibly might cause motorists to slow down or change lanes raises driver ire. I have seen no evidence of motorists or LEO ever giving visible or audible evidence of giving a dang about what bicyclists' do as long as it doesn't cause motorists to contemplate changing their own trajectory or velocity.

I just blow the red light. Much simpler.

I just blow the red light. Much simpler.
The right-turn manoeuvre is silly unless u-turns are legal (which is rare). You are just replacing one illegal act with another. Why not just blow the red if you are in so much of a danged hurry?

I generally don't do stuff like this because I want to ride predictably. Also, I don't think rider/driver should make anyone else pass them twice. That's just rude. So filtering through traffic to run a light (or pull the double-right-u-turn manoeuvre is out of the question.

I wouldn't do it in a car, so I wouldn't do it in a bike. It bugs me that so many cyclists flaunt the rules, making it hard for those of us who follow them to get respect. A careful study of the rules will show that they only work as intended when everyone follows them. IMHO if you want the rights, you take the responsibilities.

dont know what a track-stand is
If an officer of the law busts me so be it. For me it beats stopping then having to reaccelerate

<motorist>If I hit a cyclist, so be it, it beats stopping and having to reaccelerate</motorist>

If you operate on the public roadways, obey the freakin laws - period.