Fifty Plus (50+) - Treated Like Crap on a Century

If this post comes off as whining, and I should just HTFU, I apologize in advance, but I wanted to get this off my chest. It's way too long too, so skip it if that kind of thing bugs you.

Last weekend I did a hilly organized century ride a good distance away from where I live. I won't mention the name, because it's for a good cause, but it's easy to figure out if you're interested, or you can PM me.

I'd been looking forward to this event, because it was in an area where I used to live 20 years ago, and it involved some nice hill work including a 2500 ft climb on a section of the Blue Ridge Parkway that I've always wanted to do. The century was 10000+ feet of climbing, and the metric was 6500 feet.

The ride was smaller than I expected. There were only about 100 riders. I don't know how many of them signed up for the century option originally. The day was very rainy. No downpours, but steady rain almost the whole way.

On the way off of the BRP it was very, very cold and the rain was as heavy as it had been all day. I seriously considered just doing the metric. We were advised that if we didn't make the "decision point" for the metric vs. the full century by noon, we should just do the metric anyway for time reasons. I made it to the turn-off by 11:15am. I'm not the fastest rider in the world, but I thought that was respectable. I was certainly riding in front of as many riders as were riding ahead of me.

I stopped for a minute to think it over, and then decided to go for it and push on. I was feeling pretty hard-core frankly. I was riding in the hills, in the rain, and was actually enjoying myself immensely.

Because of the rain, apparently only 5 or 6 people chose to do the full century option. Needless to say they were all faster than me (and 20 years younger.) By the time I got to the rest stop at about 60 miles, the SAG guy came up to me and asked me "the ride organizer wants to know how you're doing. Think you're OK to do the last 35 miles?" I thought that was kind of an odd question. I didn't think I looked all that bad. I was feeling fine. I said no problem, and took off a few minutes later.

At about mile 77, I was flagged down on the road by the SAG guy, who informed me that I was the "last one on the road". He said the ride organizer was complaining that everybody at the remaining rest stop and at the finish was ready to go home (it was only about 2:00pm at the time.) Nobody wanted to wait around for me to limp my way in. I was given the "option" of finishing the ride on my own, but there would be no remaining rest stop or other assistance in case I had problems.

I was pretty p*ssed. I didn't know the area well enough to take my chances on finding my way back. And why should I? I paid my money like everybody else. I felt like I had no option but to get in the SUV and drive back to the start. Here I was feeling pretty good, pretty hardcore for riding in the rain, and I ended up having to SAG in which I've never, ever done before in numerous organized century rides.

When we got back to the start the ride organizer was apologetic. She said, "I'm sorry you weren't able to finish the ride." I just said "I was able to finish the ride" and left.

I think this is really cheesy behavior on the part of any organized event like this. I won't be doing the ride next year, which is a shame, because it was beautiful country and a beautiful route.

Wow......... you have a right to complain. They had several other options they could have considered-like having the Sag vehicle be the rest stops for you. They also have the responsibility to make sure you finish safely. Having said that they rely on volunteers--and sometimes that can make putting on an event very challenging.

I think you have every right to complain. You were well within the limits set by the organizers. They should have had rest stops open for you and you should have been met by cheers as you arrived at the stops and at the finish. Cheers to you for a solid and tough ride. None for the inconsiderate and nonsupportive staff of the ride. I hope you are sending them a letter expressing your complaint.

I have the same ting happen to me, except it was a nice sunny day. I did not mind at the time, but at the same time, after reading your account, as long as you were not exceeding a pre-set time limit, then they were wrong. But sagging in, I'd die first. I wonder what would have happened if you had refused the ride?

Wow......... you have a right to complain. They had several other options they could have considered-like having the Sag vehicle be the rest stops for you. They also have the responsibility to make sure you finish safely. Having said that they rely on volunteers--and sometimes that can make putting on an event very challenging.

They did. They offered him a ride in.

Another person did a calculation that it took him 2 hours 45 minutes to ride 17 miles.

I'd suggest more training beforehand.

I did the Bay to Bay ride a few years agao in Maryland. The volunteer at the last rest stop decided to close it down because he ran out of food, drinks, and other things. Of course he had a phone and could have called for more but didn't. The temps were around 90 and I ran out of water by then. Fortunately a fast food restaurant was close and I had money for a coke.

Another year they though Tang was the same as Gatorade.

Another person did a calculation that it took him 2 hours 45 minutes to ride 17 miles.

I'd suggest more training beforehand.

In re-reading his account, I believe this is a miscalculation.

He said he made it to the "turn-off" where you decide if you are going to ride the metric or century at 11:15. Then later he made it to the 60 mile rest stop. Then at 2 he was at 77 miles.

Whomever made your referenced calculation combined what appears to be two points, the decision point and the 60 mile rest stop, as both occurring at 11:15.

I'm 50, so I qualify to respond.

I just did a sweep of a 150 mile ride with really bad winds in NY and a terrible downpour that just made this a long tough day.
That said, My job was to help keep people rolling and that my partner and I did
numerous times.
As I passed people I would ask if they were okay and kept rolling as the SAG wagon would collect people at a certain time.

Now let's get to you. They did you wrong, simple.
If you ride within the cut off time they should not pull you off the road. In fact they should stay with you until the cut off time and give you an option if possible to ride at your own risk and sign a waver. If no waver, then it should be witnesses by two SAG people.
It's hard enough riding in the cold rain even if you ride 10 mph or 20 you should be supported and motivated.

Don't punish the Charity, just put your butt on the saddle for another cause.

Rob

I'd have been mad! And I'll tell you what, if I was running an event there's no WAY I would tell a rider I was going to leave him/her out on the course alone. If all my course workers wanted to go home, I would man the stops myself and only force riders to SAG if it was outside the originally agreed upon time limit. If you aren't willing to stick it out to the end, no matter what, you shouldn't be organizing events.

That was cheesy behavior. I think certain groups see organized bike rides as ways to raise money for their favorite cause. They can often not be very aware of the mechanics of the thing. They are also not aware of their responsibilities. A century needs a certain amount of support.

Here in Central FL, many centuries are just terrible. They route you through areas that have no convenience stores. So you have no way to get things like food and water on your own. Then they do not have the SAG stops up. Heck, I even had this happen on a century supported by Bike Florida which is the state's big bicycle advocacy group.

There are groups that do a routinely excellent job on their centuries.

Your experience of being informed that they were going to abandon you if you continued to ride the ride is pretty over the top though.

Out of about 100 riders, you were one of the 5 or 6 who stuck it out beyond 77 miles, and deserve respect. Deliberately discouraging you from finishing was uncalled for. Back when I was running cross country, we would always wait for the last finishers and cheer them the loudest of all, as they had to struggle as hard as the top finishers.

Paul

I'll echo the others. If the weather was so bad that the support staff didn't want to hang out at the rest stops for the full allotted time, then they should have refunded everyone's money and canceled the whole thing. They had no business pulling support or pulling you off the road before the cutoff time. If it were me, I'd write to the organizers and tell them so, along with a request for them to 'make it right' by refunding your money or (if you're interested in this option) registering you for free next year.

Very, very poor support there. Short sighted on the organizer's side...

Ask for refund, good idea...

Very, very poor support there. Short sighted on the organizer's side...

Ask for refund, good idea...


Yup. Might not work but he's entitled to it. I'll bet real American money that the registration said "ride happens rain or shine - no refunds". They didn't fulfill their end of the contract... they shouldn't get the money.

There's some information missing here. How long would the last 23 miles take for you to finish? 2 hours? 3? Was weather getting worse? How about wind? Was that last part of the course tougher than the earlier stretch?


You did say you were the LAST rider out on the course. Typically it can be hard to get volunteers for a charity event. Even harder if the impression is that people sat around for 2+ hours in the rain because there was 1 rider left on the road.

It seems like the communication could have been handled differently so that you would come away feeling better about the situation. Would you have felt differently if the organizer met you on the course, exlained the situation, offered a refund, and then called the event?

I'd chalk it up to experience and move on. If I had to vote. I'm on the side of the organizer. She lost 1 rider for next year's event, but kept all of her volunteers.

They could have let most of the volunteers leave...

The last rider is still entitled to support if the rider paid.

There was no agreement on a cut off time.

There's some information missing here. How long would the last 23 miles take for you to finish? 2 hours? 3? Was weather getting worse? How about wind? Was that last part of the course tougher than the earlier stretch?


You did say you were the LAST rider out on the course. Typically it can be hard to get volunteers for a charity event. Even harder if the impression is that people sat around for 2+ hours in the rain because there was 1 rider left on the road.

It seems like the communication could have been handled differently so that you would come away feeling better about the situation. Would you have felt differently if the organizer met you on the course, exlained the situation, offered a refund, and then called the event?

I'd chalk it up to experience and move on. If I had to vote. I'm on the side of the organizer. She lost 1 rider for next year's event, but kept all of her volunteers.

+1. I also bet there's some info in his packet saying the organizers sweep the course at various cutoff times/points. He mentioned the sag wagon approached him at 2:00. Organizers can't expect volunteers to make an entire day of it.

I know I wouldn't want volunteers to be out there with me in those conditions. A cue sheet, computer and cell phone is all that's needed. Plus courses are usually marked well.

As a past and future ride director of charity rides, I know how tempting it can be to cut support for one or two riders coming in significantly later than all the others, but I would never allow a situation like what I am understanding this one was to occur. If the riders were within the stated time limits (if any) I would make sure there was road support and food and water at the rest stops until they finished. If we had promised food and/or facilities at the end of the ride, I'd be sure they had them. If it was a really long wait, I would give my volunteers the option of leaving, but I would support those remaining riders if it meant I had to do it by myself. And I would be sure to do so with a smile on my face and encouragement and appreciation in my voice. Basically, treat them the way I would want to be treated, not as an inconvenience.

You can't please everyone on a ride, but you can make sure you deliver what you promise to your riders. Unless I'm missing something, this ride's organizers did not deliver what they promised. I would not want to ride on a ride they put on.

As a past and future ride director of charity rides, I know how tempting it can be to cut support for one or two riders coming in significantly later than all the others, but I would never allow a situation like what I am understanding this one was to occur.

Thank you. "Rain or shine" should mean the same thing to the orgnizers as it does to the riders.

Set reasonable cut off times and stick to them even if it's only one guy.

Once I did a ride (AMBBR around Tahoe) that had to abort because the Nevada Highway Patrol closed the rode due to snow... the organizers had to shuttle hundreds of us back down the California side in school buses and bike trailers from a closed ski lodge. They knocked themselves out trying to do the right thing.

+1. I also bet there's some info in his packet saying the organizers sweep the course at various cutoff times/points. He mentioned the sag wagon approached him at 2:00. Organizers can't expect volunteers to make an entire day of it.

Even given that you can't expect them to spend an entire day, isn't 2pm a little early to call time on a century ride?

However I do have some sympathy for their position. All day rain, every other rider has given it up. One person left and they may be out for 2 more hours. Might be time to see if you can buy them off, with money or race gear. A persuasive approach is usually easier to accept. The OP says that they flagged him down and told him that support staff were complaining. It reads like the "pitch" was a negative one.

Offer a hearty congratulations for sticking it out so long, a couple of extra shirts, refund half their ride fee, maybe something in the way of recognition on the ride's web site, whatever. You might still have a rider who doesn't want to quit & thus some conflict, but people tend to be reasonable.

I'm getting a much better response in this forum than in the Road Forum, but I expected that. Here's what I posted there:

Thanks for the comments everybody. Sounds like the consensus is that I suck. I'm cool with that :)

I'll just add a couple of notes:

- Before the start it was emphasized "this is not a race. Ride your own pace." I believed 'em :) I was trying to ride a bit conservatively because it was a lot of climbing in one day for me.

- The decision point was mile 47. I had no idea how many people were ahead of me. I didn't realize it was only 5 or 6. I assumed that there were at least one or two behind me, but I assumed wrong.

- The only time cutoff mentioned was 6:00pm. They cut me off at about 2:00pm. We were supposed to divert to the metric if we hit the decision point after noon. It was 11:15am.

- In retrospect I definitely should have finished on my own. I could have had the SAG guy fill up my waterbottles and maybe go rustle up a banana or something. My mistake.

- I checked my GPS log. My avg. time for two recorded legs was 13.2 and 13.7. Man that really does blow.

I probably won't have anything else to add. Thanks again for the feedback.

The consensus there is you suck for averaging over 13 MPH on hills in the rain :twitchy: What a bunch of winners there are in that forum.

I think you ought to package the great advice the 50+ ers have given and send it on to the ride organizer with a polite note that explains how they let you down and what they ought to be doing to ensure it doesn't happen the next time they run the ride. One thing is for sure; they won't change if they don't percieve a need to and they won't see the need unless you let them know not only how you feel about the treatment but how many other riders you toutch through the forums and personally who will all end up sharing your perception if the ride doesn't address things.

I've had worse, (i.e. zero - "here's a map") support on a century. That being said, I don't think this organizer should be doing centuries. It's extremely common for people to take 10 hours to do a century, and organizers should plan for that. If someone is just collecting money for charity, they need a different vehicle.

By the Road Forum standards, yes you suck. But that's their standard answer, so you suck no matter what. Don't worry about it. :) The thing is, they took your money and promised you support until 6:00 PM. It's too bad that the rainy weather wrecked their money-maker and a single rider wasn't worth their time; but that's not an excuse to breach the contract they had with you.

By the Road Forum standards, yes you suck. But that's their standard answer, so you suck no matter what.

lol ain't that the truth :thumb:

Well I can understand that almost everyone wants to pack it in and quit early during foul weather. Buy darn it, if they are going to hold the event, rain or shine, then they better well not be packing it in before the cut off time if a rider is still on the road and wants to complete his century. I don't know what was due you at finish, assume you got a lunch. I see no problem with sending the band home, but would expect at least one person with water and banana could hang in with you for 23 more miles. Could drive ahead with vehicle say 5 miles and wait for you to pass, then repeat procedure. That's kind of the cost of doing business, so to speak, with organizing a ride.

Now personally, I'm one of those who will take 10 hours plus to ride a century, so when I attempt one it will be self supported, as I fear I would miss the cut off time should I attempt one with an organized ride.

I am really dismayed as to what happened. Any event organization who wants to make sure everyone is off a course at a cetain time, needs to make sure up front that is posted. For instance "All riders must be able to complete the ride in 10 hours. Late riders will be sagged in". Tough thing about small rides. Volunteers are hard to get and it's tough hanging out on the road for hours and hours not knowing if anyone is going to come by or what. If the weather was bad however, for safety reasons they need to pull folks off the course. Just be understanding of the facts. It's tough putting on a ride and its tough being a course volunteer. We don't give those folks enough credit.

I think its pretty hard to judge, from one perspective. If you continuned on, at your pace, it would have been close to 5:00pm for a finish. If the course was empty at that point, except for you, I can see the organizers viewpoint.

Maybe, the sag folk did the best they could, maybe in the heat of the moment the OP was more angry than he even seems to be in his second post. Plenty of times in life have I been outraged, only to think about it later and find that I was maybe in the wrong. **** happens. To be honest, if I knew I was the last on the course, and would be the reason several people were standing around in the rain, Im not so sure I would think its right to tell them to suck it up, Ill be finished in 3 hours..........maybe.

It was a bad situation for all it seems.

They made a contract with you.

You paid your money and met your end of the obligation, according to the written material.

They took your money and didn't fulfill their contract in violation of the written material.

There is a "breach of contract" here.

Shame on them.

snippage

When we got back to the start the ride organizer was apologetic. She said, "I'm sorry you weren't able to finish the ride." I just said "I was able to finish the ride" and left.

I think this is really cheesy behavior on the part of any organized event like this. I won't be doing the ride next year, which is a shame, because it was beautiful country and a beautiful route.

Oh my gosh...that is extremely cheesy behavior and I think they are the ones who owe you an apology....You would have finished the ride in a respectable time....10K of climbing is pretty darn challenging, and in the rain to boot. I don't think you suck....:) I give you credit for trying and I'm sorry you didn't get to finish.

I am afraid your reply to the organizer may have fallen on deaf ears, but it deserves a "touche"....They just wanted to pack it in and get home and they were not thinking of your needs and desires as a participant. Pretty poor behavior on their part, IMHO, you were an invited guest who paid money to participate.

I say good job anyway.. Hey its not the milage you do anyway.. Its a great cause and if things got a little mixed up Id try not to take it too seriously.. I was in Jerseys version on Sat too and the thing that ticked me off was what I thought were a number of unsupported intersection crossings in a couple of busy shore towns.. Im writing to the MS people about my thoughts as Id hate to see someone seriously hurt.

You did say you were the LAST rider out on the course. Typically it can be hard to get volunteers for a charity event. Even harder if the impression is that people sat around for 2+ hours in the rain because there was 1 rider left on the road.

Every organized ride has a last rider out on the course.
While I've not taken a survey, I suspect that in the majority of rides, the very last rider is the one who takes the longest to complete the ride, and organizers are fully aware of that propensity. (That's why organizers establish a latest start time.)

Your logic suggests that riders can rely on organized support--except the straggler.
It seems to me, however, that slower riders are in most need of support, and encouragement (even accolades) for accomplishing what is possibly a difficult personal challenge in the face of adverse weather, older age, and other slow-speed factors.

If the OP had ridden at the same pace, but there were 10 people behind him, the volunteers would have waited even longer, so a volunteer's impatience (or boredom) shouldn't be be the reason to cut a ride short. Volunteers (bright enough to realize long-range weather prediction is difficult, and in the worst case have dressed for the weather; and good conditions or bad, also realize there will be slow periods allowing iPod use, reading, or knitting) should be praised for sticking it out in bad weather.

A situation like this might be similar to marathons, which often have a few very slow finishers, but the organizers commit to keeping support in place until a stated time.

If ride organizers are so concerned about keeping volunteers, they can disclose and reserve the right to disallow starts during bad weather or disallow full routes in bad weather, limit longer routes to only competitive riders, establish closing times for supported stops and SAGs, and/or make the ride (or longer routes) contingent upon a minimum number of participants.
And riders who might not be comfortable with that degree of uncertainty can decide to ride elsewhere.

I am not suggesting that rides, or runs do not have several slow finishers. I am suggesting that most do not have a final rider on the course, who will be three hours later than the the rider before him.

He was not abandoned of support, he was given options. The options were simply not ones he found fair, or what was promised in his mind. Without being there, neither you or I, can fairly judge how things were administered. While I do not think the OP is making it up, it is only his perspective. We are certainly not privy to all the detail from both sides.

I guess it can be looked at in a couple ways.

One, that the event didnt go as anyone had hoped, the weather sucked, participants were lacking, less money was made than hoped, volunteers (yes ,those doing it for nothing) found they were in for possibly more than they were promised and a rider was left with the option of finishing the ride alone. A bad day for all.

Or that all that went wrong is the problem of everyone but one rider, and he was treated totally unfairly.



I guess I just look at it different. shruggs

I'm getting a much better response in this forum than in the Road Forum, but I expected that. Here's what I posted there:

Thanks for the comments everybody. Sounds like the consensus is that I suck. I'm cool with that :)

I'll just add a couple of notes:

- Before the start it was emphasized "this is not a race. Ride your own pace." I believed 'em :) I was trying to ride a bit conservatively because it was a lot of climbing in one day for me.

- The decision point was mile 47. I had no idea how many people were ahead of me. I didn't realize it was only 5 or 6. I assumed that there were at least one or two behind me, but I assumed wrong.

- The only time cutoff mentioned was 6:00pm. They cut me off at about 2:00pm. We were supposed to divert to the metric if we hit the decision point after noon. It was 11:15am.

- In retrospect I definitely should have finished on my own. I could have had the SAG guy fill up my waterbottles and maybe go rustle up a banana or something. My mistake.

- I checked my GPS log. My avg. time for two recorded legs was 13.2 and 13.7. Man that really does blow.

I probably won't have anything else to add. Thanks again for the feedback.

Couple of comments. Often people take shortcuts in long ridesike centuries or do planned stops before the end such as it goes by/near their house. Also people call for rides instead of using the sag wagon. So those you thought were behind probably were and just quit.

You probably were on track to finish around 5:00 - an hour before the cutoff. So the sag wagon driver cut it short but I can see why.

You are to be commended for hanging in there. That kind of course with elevations like that amd cold rain is tough.

When I was a serious trumpet student, one of my teachers made me memorize every piece of music that I was going to publicly perform, even if it was in a situation where we could have music on the stage with us. His attitude: you never know what's going to happen in a performance -- the music might fall off the stand, you might forget the music, whatever.

When I first starting doing organized rides, I took the same approach to organized rides -- I always took a little extra food and water in case the rest stops are going to be out of food, and I always had my maps in case I had to get myself home.

My last couple of rides I have been less well prepared - this thread is a good reminder to me to assume that when I go on an organized rides I should be prepared to ride them as if they are a solo ride. Though it seems to me that in this case they should have cheered on the final rider on the course (who was going to finish before cutoff time), it appears you can't count on what is going to happen, esp. if the weather turns foul.

...the weather sucked, participants were lacking, less money was made than hoped, volunteers (yes ,those doing it for nothing) found they were in for possibly more than they were promised and a rider was left with the option of finishing the ride alone.

This is not correct. At least some of the volunteers should have expected to work until 6:00 PM, possibly a little later. That was the advertised cutoff time. Unless you're suggesting that they deliberately didn't schedule anybody to support the last 4 hours of the ride.

BTW, at his 13 mph pace, the last 23 miles should have taken less than 2 hours, so it'd be reasonable to project him finishing before 4:00 pm, a full 2 hours before the cutoff. Unless there's something significant about the last part of the course. The time to offer him a ride would have been at 5:45 pm, when they swept the course. That's SOP. Doing it at 2:00 stinks, no matter what their reasons.

When you had the soaking rain that should have tipped you off to the bad mojo of the ride. Just send 'em a check and don't ride next time.

You probably were on track to finish around 5:00 - an hour before the cutoff. So the sag wagon driver cut it short but I can see why.


I think he was on track to finish between 4:00 to 4:15.

He took 2:45 to go from mile 47 to 77. This included a rest stop. That suggests to me that it would have taken him 2:00 to 2:15 to travel the last 23 miles with a rest stop. He said he was averaging around 13.5 mph when riding. If he averaged 13 over the last 23 miles, that would have taken about 1:45 plus the time of his stop, which I'm guessing would have been 15 to 30 minutes.

Thanks for the comments everybody. I feel so loved here (comparatively anyway :) )

You all have had good things for me to think about. So my final, final comments (probably):

I have done dozens of solo centuries, so I'm not afraid to be out and about by myself. I could have finished by myself with no problem (except to my ego.) I guess I was just so shocked when the SAG guy asked me to stop that I wasn't thinking straight. It never occurred to me that I was inconveniencing anyone.

Oh, and I'm all set to do it again this weekend: Mountains of Misery (http://www.cyclingdoubleheader.com/mountains-of-misery)

Best of luck on MOM. I really liked MOM up until about the 100 mile mark.........Be sure and take out your frustrations from this last ride on the last 3 mile climb. Gear down for those!!!

By the Road Forum standards, yes you suck. But that's their standard answer, so you suck no matter what. Don't worry about it. :) The thing is, they took your money and promised you support until 6:00 PM. It's too bad that the rainy weather wrecked their money-maker and a single rider wasn't worth their time; but that's not an excuse to breach the contract they had with you.


You should really read all the responses on the other thread. A lot are in favor of the op's position. Don't categorize an entire forum on what just a few have to say. Otherwise you are just like them.

One final thought.........you might just think the SAG on MOM is a GOOD thing!!! You're going to get treated like Crap but it will not be the people on this ride!!!

Seriously I look forward to hearing how the ride goes. I have MOM up that as one of the 2 toughest centuries I've done-just because of those last 3 miles. See if you can climb the last 10 miles without a break!!! Riding across the finish line is a great accomplishment and I know you're ready for it.

You should really read all the responses on the other thread. A lot are in favor of the op's position. Don't categorize an entire forum on what just a few have to say. Otherwise you are just like them.

I did read them, if not all then at least most. Yes, answers ranged all over the place, but I saw a significant number of HTFU responses and those siding with the organizers simply because JimF's 13 mph average wasn't up to their standards. Or up to their personnas' standards, anyway. I don't really have a problem with the answers; they're mostly in fun and JimF shouldn't take those ones too seriously.

It is a bummer they closed shop and did not want to support you tp the finish. Shows that the organizers & volunteers were most likely not cyclists. But in thier defence they did send the SAG wagon around to pick you up and bring you home, sounds like they also tried to apologize - the comment about not being able to finish the ride could be interpreted two ways. In general - they gave you the options - you made your choise. You had two hours & 23 miles left (at your stated pace) which for you sounds like not a big deal. You most likely had a queue sheet & the course was most likely marked. I think the decision was really yours to make. The ride organizer (if it was cold and rainy) may have had staff who were getting cold and wet as well. So everybody had a bad day.

Now with all that said - I would not participate or recommend this groups rides to anyone else nor would I particpate again. I would not ask for my money back if it were a charity - thats one of the reasons we do the rides, otherwise we could do them on our own for a lot less. Don't punish the charity for thier volunteers - but not encourage the bad behavior.

You did a tough ride in bad conditions - so it was cut short, that happens. Pat yourself on the back and feel good about the fact that you took pitty on those weaklings who organized the ride...:D

Yep, the end of this event was poorly handled.

jppe: I'm prepared to walk the last three miles of MoM if I have to.

I may not be prepared to admit it though, so take anything I say afterwards with a dose of skepticism :)