Northeast - man was in jail for 26 hrs for riding on the sidewalk...

once again...nypd harassing and abusing their powers

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/investigative/090520_The_Vanishing_Husband_and_the_NYPD

The New York Civil Liberties Union should get in on this.

The punishment does not fit the crime. What justice is there?

Oh, whatever.

The guy drew a couple of short straws in a row. If he had his wallet -- or any ID on him -- he wouldn't have gotten arrested. If his wife had a NY phone number, or if he remembered the phone number of his job, his family wouldn't have freaked out.

I do feel bad for the guy and his family, and it does sound like the NYPD might have been rude. But it's a little hard to know for sure -- the wife was most likely (and understandably) hysterical, and I don't automatically trust anyone in that state of mind to have perfect recall.

I don't know how long you are required to wait before filing a missing person's report in NYC, so I'm not sure if the cops were or weren't doing their job right.

oh, whatever.

The guy drew a couple of short straws in a row. If he had his wallet -- or any id on him -- he wouldn't have gotten arrested. If his wife had a ny phone number, or if he remembered the phone number of his job, his family wouldn't have freaked out.

I do feel bad for the guy and his family, and it does sound like the nypd might have been rude. But it's a little hard to know for sure -- the wife was most likely (and understandably) hysterical, and i don't automatically trust anyone in that state of mind to have perfect recall.

I don't know how long you are required to wait before filing a missing person's report in nyc, so i'm not sure if the cops were or weren't doing their job right.

bull

Wow, talk about bad police work. Apparently NYPD policies no longer allow officers to use common sense.

They allow the individual officers to use their discretion. These officers just wanted to **** the guy over by holding him while they looked for a crime to charge him with. We either need more violent crimes so these guys have something better to do or fewer violent and malevolent cops.

Sure we should all carry ID with us at all times but does someone deserve to go through all of that when all of the information they required could have been obtained by just letting him get in contact with someone? He had a cell phone to make his call so it seems like a silly policy to not let people get in touch with their family members just because they have out of state area codes.

precisely. The guy was not prepared - but this could happen to anyone. With the laziness caused by cell phones, Idk everyone's # off the top of my head anymore, and it took me some time to memorize my current work number, etc. If these people just moved here recently, no wonder he didn't know them.

If he had walked into a bank with a loaded gun, ok , i could see their concern. But all this, because he broke a sidewalk cycling law? Excuse me while I throw up.

This morning I rolled through a red (not all the way, just rolled up to see if cars were coming) and a cop car car next to me asked me if I knew where a street was - was I being profiled? Are they that idle that they can take time out to worry about me and my bike commute?

The guy shouldn't have been riding on the sidewalk so he earned the ticket. But since he didn't have any ID on him the cops are allowed to take him into custody until they can verify his identity. At this point, the sidewalk surfing bike rider is 100% at fault on TWO fronts: First, riding on the sidewalk which is indeed against the law and, second, not having any I.D. But after that, everything just goes way wrong. :eek:

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RIGHT TO ONE PHONE CALL?!? Riding on the sidewalk or not the guy is entitled to a phone call to get someone to come down with his ID. This is where the cops screwed up. Out of state phone number or not they should have let him make the call or actually did some police work (fancy that) and called up the Tennis Court that this guy worked at -- a local call-- to have someone come down to verify his identity or at least get in contact with his family to do the verifying.

The guy screwed up on a number of occasions during this incident (no ID, not remembering local work number, etc) so it's not like he's innocent but the cops did a very poor job on this one.

Wait, it's a crime to not have an ID on you?

no ID = possible terrorist threat:rolleyes:

Wait, it's a crime to not have an ID on you?

Technically, no. Practically, yes.

The cops don't even need to ticket you. They can just stop you and ask you questions. If you refuse to answer, they can arrest you.

Larry Dudley Hiibel thought this was wrong, and took his case all the way to SCOTUS.

He lost.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/32830.html

Hiibel in his own words.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0628/p09s01-coop.html

Kevin {Note: IANAL**

They can't just stop you and ask you questions; they have to have a reasonable suspicion that you are involved in criminal activity. And the only question you are required to answer is who you are. None of which is particularly relevant to this case, though.

I am not 100% sure (pls correct me if you know) but once he was stopped for riding on the sidewalk (which he did not appear to deny doing) he needed to show ID. Had he done so, he would not have been arrested at all, but merely been given a summons.

As KitN wrote, the cops were going by the book up till that point; the stuff in the precinct thereafter was just total BS, period.

They can't just stop you and ask you questions; they have to have a reasonable suspicion that you are involved in criminal activity. And the only question you are required to answer is who you are. None of which is particularly relevant to this case, though.

I have no doubt that, if a cop wanted to exercise a "Terry stop" on me, he could recall some alleged miscreant whose description I resembled closely enough to justify it. That might be a case of testalying, but a word to the wise is sufficient.

I expect that asking said occifer Excuse me, but are you asking that under the Terry Stop doctrine, and, if so, on what basis are you exercising your discretion? might result with my being introduced to a close-up view of the pavement, if not a mouthful of Maglite.

Kevin

26 hrs? Meh. Whatever. I read it 26 yrs. the first time!

Technically, no. Practically, yes.

The cops don't even need to ticket you. They can just stop you and ask you questions. If you refuse to answer, they can arrest you.

Larry Dudley Hiibel thought this was wrong, and took his case all the way to SCOTUS.

He lost.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/32830.html

Hiibel in his own words.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0628/p09s01-coop.html

Kevin {Note: IANAL**

Jeebus christmas, good to know this stuff, thanks for the links.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RIGHT TO ONE PHONE CALL?!? Riding on the sidewalk or not the guy is entitled to a phone call to get someone to come down with his ID. This is where the cops screwed up. Out of state phone number or not they should have let him make the call or actually did some police work (fancy that) and called up the Tennis Court that this guy worked at -- a local call-- to have someone come down to verify his identity or at least get in contact with his family to do the verifying.



Agreed. The whole point in detaining people without ID is so the police can verify their identity - not to run them through the system. It's interesting that the judge sentenced him to time served. That seems to be what happens with a lot of Quality of Life violations. I'm sure whatever amount these officers billed the city for all the overtime involved in this collar amounted to more than the cost of a long distance telephone call.

It's this kind of crap that is causing people to become (for lack of a better term) angry at the police. I myself hate cops because of stories like this but I have the intelligence to know that this is only a few bad cops. Unfortunately these few bad cops are hurting the reputation of the rest of them such as the good cops which are the ones who use common sense instead of this 0 policy sh**.

sorry for the vent

I believe at the end he mentions now he has a record.
of course, he's in the system now.

The judge probably told him not to do anything stupid for 6 months and if he doesn't, after 6 months, he can get the infraction expunged from his record. (That's what normally happens with a 1st time minor offense.)

but wouldn't he need to answer truthfully on job applications that ask Were you Ever arrested?
or for any government related background check applications. the government is a stickler on these things.

Yeah, he would need to put it down on a job application...."I got arrested for riding my bike on the sidewalk".....

Now there's a real threat to society; someone better think twice about hiring THAT guy.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RIGHT TO ONE PHONE CALL?!?
It doesn't exist.

Not on the federal level, at least. You have a Constitutional right to an attorney, not to contact your family. The ability to make a call when you're arrested is granted by the State you're arrested in, not Federal law.

NY State law might grant that right. However, that doesn't obligate the police to help you track down any phone numbers.



It's this kind of crap that is causing people to become (for lack of a better term) angry at the police.
Uh... Did you not live here when Giuliani was Mayor? The cops were gunning down unarmed and/or innocent civilians back in those days. Getting sent to Central Booking for half a day is a cake-walk in comparison.



but wouldn't he need to answer truthfully on job applications that ask Were you Ever arrested?
"I hope you know this will go down on your permanent record..." (http://www.last.fm/music/Violent+Femmes/_/Kiss+Off) ;)

Not if the offense gets expunged. That's pretty much the whole point behind the procedure.

It doesn't exist.

Not on the federal level, at least. You have a Constitutional right to an attorney, not to contact your family. The ability to make a call when you're arrested is granted by the State you're arrested in, not Federal law.

NY State law might grant that right. However, that doesn't obligate the police to help you track down any phone numbers.

I don't know if you're familiar with NYC law and police procedure but I am very familiar with it -- on a PROFESSIONAL and personal level (I'll leave it at that). I can guarantee you that you have a right to a phone call in NYC. Now whether you call an attorney or your family, that's your choice. And no one said anything about police being "obligated" to help you track down phone numbers. I don't know where you got that from. :rolleyes:

And no one said anything about police being "obligated" to help you track down phone numbers. I don't know where you got that from.
From KitN's post; and possibly pgoat's characterization of "everything" in the precinct being done wrong.

Uh... Did you not live here when Giuliani was Mayor? The cops were gunning down unarmed and/or innocent civilians back in those days. Getting sent to Central Booking for half a day is a cake-walk in comparison.

and your point is?

If your saying that things used to be worse DOES NOT mean that what the police did was right and that they should get away with it.

I am not 100% sure (pls correct me if you know) but once he was stopped for riding on the sidewalk (which he did not appear to deny doing) he needed to show ID. Had he done so, he would not have been arrested at all, but merely been given a summons.

As KitN wrote, the cops were going by the book up till that point; the stuff in the precinct thereafter was just total BS, period.


From KitN's post; and possibly pgoat's characterization of "everything" in the precinct being done wrong.

incorrect

"I hope you know this will go down on your permanent record..." (http://www.last.fm/music/Violent+Femmes/_/Kiss+Off) ;)

The VF* reference is cool, but here I was thinking of Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant.


Kevin

*was an usher at the Aug., 1981 Pretenders/Bureau show at Milwaukee's Oriental Landmark Theatre the night Gordon & the boys were "discovered."

but wouldn't he need to answer truthfully on job applications that ask Were you Ever arrested?
or for any government related background check applications. the government is a stickler on these things.

I think the question usually runs more along the lines of "Were you ever convicted of a felony?"
If employers actually discriminated against everyone who was ever arrested there'd be very few people working.

from kitn's post; and possibly pgoat's characterization of "everything" in the precinct being done wrong.

fail

http://www.flickr.com/photos/depechetraff/3548946280/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/depechetraff/3548946280/

OMG, that is priceless.


http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif


everyone in NYC on a bike should print this out and attach to their id in case they're ever pulled over.:lol:

OMG, that is priceless.


http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif


everyone in NYC on a bike should print this out and attach to their id in case they're ever pulled over.:lol:

I see that NY's Finest are also wearing their invisible magic helmets. ;)

Kevin

Imagine that poor guy's frustration dealing with one "robot" after another.
Not one person along this whole episode would use his own common sense to keep this guy out of jail.

Great photo of the cops riding on the sidewalk with their helmets hung over their handlebars. :thumb:

pigs being pigs? why am i not surprised. i hear about this stuff all the time, nobody does anything to fight it though. So t hey continue to abuse their power.

Great photo of the cops riding on the sidewalk with their helmets hung over their handlebars. :thumb:

Maybe it's just cramps their style! :lol:

Miguel can certainly bring action against the City and/or the police dept. You should not "have I.D. on you at all times"; if you want to, fine, but, as a free citizen, it's not your "responsibility" to carry around a little card with your face on it to walk around the streets.

NYC rewrote the laws governing bicycles so that they are actually a higher offense than a typical car offence. They did this so they could stop 'drug dealers' in 'ethnic' neighborhoods and run warrants on them. I personally got a sidewalk violation, riding in an 'ethnic' neighborhood. I could not just sign the ticket and mail in a fine, I had to go to court. When I did they claimed an invalid something or other was filed and gave me an embossed paper explaining it, and told me to keep the paper forever just in case.

Processing an arrest takes a lot of time in NYC, one reason they did not know where he was is that all records are paper records. The cop most likely got the day off, and the other cops only had to deal with a compliant yuppie. You will note the identity of the cop is not mentioned, as would a merchant that gave bad service.

The funniest part is where they claim to be trying to identify him, but will not go back to his home to look at his ID, or call anyone who could. Which is to say they fingerprinted him as the best/only way to identify him. CSI NY, no ability to charge a cell phone.

The whole thing is really ludicrous.:notamused:

Miguel can certainly bring action against the City and/or the police dept. You should not "have I.D. on you at all times"; if you want to, fine, but, as a free citizen, it's not your "responsibility" to carry around a little card with your face on it to walk around the streets.

It's not that simple.

The Supreme Court has ruled that you do not have to carry or produce an ID upon demand.

However, if you are accused of a crime (in this case riding on the sidewalk) you do need to produce ID to the Police. So if you get stopped because you are suspected f a crime, you need to produce ID. It's a gray area.

correct. The part that is ludicrous is that the guy was nabbed right outside his home, and that they wouldn't accommodate his one freaking phone call. he broke a law, ok. But how serious was this 'crime'?

I got my sidewalk summons in the middle of nowhere - just like a BS speeding ticket trap on a desolate highway. And just as drivers routinely speed and create hazards in dense areas, where you never see them get ticketed, I see people riding on very crowded city sidewalks all the time - and no cops doing a thing about it there, where it actually could save some lives or prevent injuries.

It's not that simple.

The Supreme Court has ruled that you do not have to carry or produce an ID upon demand.

However, if you are accused of a crime (in this case riding on the sidewalk) you do need to produce ID to the Police. So if you get stopped because you are suspected f a crime, you need to produce ID. It's a gray area.

First, I'm not quoting law (first-and-a-half: neither are you). Second, even if the U.S. Supreme Court were to rule all citizens must carry photo identification outdoors, it would be a law we would be wise to fight, not to follow. Last, "practically," it often is useful (sometimes not) to have I.D. handy; that doesn't mean we ought to assimilate "practicality" into our ideals and suggest a person "really should" carry a valid identification card at all times — there's no good ideological reason to ask him or her to do so.

True. US Citizens are not required to carry ID. But NYPD has these rules, like the rules they wanted to put in place about free assembly, that may not be entirely consistent with the constitution. Citizens don't have to carry ID but NYPD may detain you until they ascertain your identity.

All you need is your name and correct address as ID to police for a bike infraction. Now lying to them about it would be the crime. If he had been driving he'd NEED his driver's license and insurance papers.

well i guess we have three levels of illegality in this city

1. it's illegal but everybody does it
2. it's illegal but some people do it
3. i'll probably piss off the cops

if i stop you for an infraction and ask you for id and you do not have any i will detain you not arrest you until i can find out who you are. i may take you to the precinct i may even put you in cuffs thats up to me and you. i you cooperate i'll probably just drop you off and you can wait until whoever it is to bring your id. however if you insist on being a smart ass and start quoting supreme court decisions and telling me i'm abusing my authority i will arrest and marandize you. you will be then given your phone call after you are booked.i am under no obligation to drive you home to get your id or look up phone numbers for you. this is different than a traffic stop because i can check if you have a license all i need is your name,dob and social security number to find out if you do indeed have one. i can also check who owns the car by running the number plate.so if everything checks out i can issue you a summons and let you be on you way. bikes do not have number plates nor are the riders licensed but you have given me two things to act on. 1. i will make a presentation to my bosses that all bikes have number plates and that riders be licensed i'm sure the city will charge a fee for this since you are using city streets. 2. i have thoroughly researched the dmv rules covering cyclist and you will be pleased to know i intend to enforce these laws.
thanks you have given me a whole new way to make my day go faster :)