Pacific Northwest - This is why motorists hate us

I was walking to work this morning in Bellevue at NE 12th St and 116th Ave NE near Overlake hospital. I saw a cyclist on a nice road bike waiting for the green arrow in the left turn lane. Kudos, I thought to myself, he's following the rules of the road! But then he got impatient and cut left across the incoming traffic lanes and got onto the sidewalk opposite traffic!

I was looking at that and shaking my head when something even worse happened.

I heard a mumble directly behind me, and before my brain even registered what was going on, another roadie in red jersey and black shorts zipped right past me to my right. He was on the sidewalk and he was so close he brushed against me as he passed. He turned left and took the same sidewalk the first guy took, went up the sidewalk opposite traffic a few hundred feet, jumped off the curb onto the street, went across opposite lanes of traffic, across the turn lane, and continued riding dead center of the left lane! He stayed there for a while and then moved over to the right lane but not close enough to the curb. Aren't we supposed to stay to the right?

Note that he did not pull these maneuvers to avoid cars. No one was forcing him to do any of this.

What the hell??? This behavior makes all cyclists look bad, and it is extremely dangerous to *US*. Lacking bike lanes or shoulders, the safest place for a bike is on the road, following the same rules of the road the motorists must follow. That's what drivers are expecting to see. If we do something unexpected we pretty much invite accidents.

I agree that bikes should stay on the road.

However, drivers will always find an excuse to hate us, even if we are "following the rules."

So on that note, I say do whatever works for you, every rider for themselves. If they didn't cause an accident, I don't see the harm. If they do cause an accident, then it's their problem.

However, drivers will always find an excuse to hate us, even if we are "following the rules."

SOME drivers will always find an excuse to hate us. Most won't. Why give them something to hate? If we want to be respected, we need to earn that respect. That means following the rules of the road and acting like 'vehicles'. An "I don't care" attitude just makes it worse for everybody.

If there's no car in the LTO lane at that intersection, the sensors won't recognize a bike.

I do the same manouvre at 175th by Wilmot Gateway Park in Woodinville. Pull up to the head of the LTO and zip to the sidewalk (opposing traffic) for a block until the I can hit the crosswalk over to the park. If I didn't do that, I could sit at that light until the cows come home... if a car didn't pull up behind me, the left turn light would never light up.

I don't ride my bike so that people will like me. If they want to hate, fine with me.
And it's also not my responsibility to make the world safe for worrywarts either.

What's your evidence that this is why motorists hate cyclists? To me, it seems much more visceral or tribal.

I had just jumped on my bike after taking a short break when an 12 rider pace-line passed me riding 2-3 wide. Since they were running at my speed I hung off the back at a respectable distance. A car comes up behind us and I yell "car back". The folks in the pace-line continued to ride 2-3 wide effectively blocking off the road. The car eventually crossed the double yellow-lines with all 4 wheels and passed the pace-line. The car honked and the folks in the pace-line laughed and exchanged hand jesters with the driver of the car. It felt like the riders really enjoyed the friction that had been created with the car driver.

So I pondered on what had happened for a while. I could see the point of both sides. The riders felt they had every right (even though the laws say single file) to take their share of the road. The driver was irritated that he had to slow down below 25 MPH in a 55 MPH speed zone for an extended period of time. The driver was also irritated that none of the riders made any attempt to make it easier for the driver to pass the group.

At the same time I remembered catching up to a farm tractors traveling at 17-20MPH blocking the same road and making no attempt to get out of the way. There was a line of cars following behind the tractor and when they got a chance to pass nobody honked or made hand jesters at the tractor driver. The pace-line I observed was traveling faster than the farm tractor but it seems the friction between both sides (driver and riders) immediately hit the boil point.

I think the OP has a point, though, that getting that close to pedestrians is rather rude. In the case of the rider on the sidewalk, I'm sure the rider is showing their superior bike-handling skills by getting *that close* to a pedestrian and not cause injury, but, it was luck, not skill, that someone wasn't hurt.

And, that's the point, it's luck. The what-ever-works-for-you won't work for someone at some time. Which is why we have laws, to avoid that one unlucky encounter in a total of too-many-to-count encounters.

I was walking to work this morning in Bellevue at NE 12th St and 116th Ave NE near Overlake hospital. I saw a cyclist on a nice road bike waiting for the green arrow in the left turn lane. Kudos, I thought to myself, he's following the rules of the road! But then he got impatient and cut left across the incoming traffic lanes and got onto the sidewalk opposite traffic!

I was looking at that and shaking my head when something even worse happened.

I heard a mumble directly behind me, and before my brain even registered what was going on, another roadie in red jersey and black shorts zipped right past me to my right. He was on the sidewalk and he was so close he brushed against me as he passed. He turned left and took the same sidewalk the first guy took, went up the sidewalk opposite traffic a few hundred feet, jumped off the curb onto the street, went across opposite lanes of traffic, across the turn lane, and continued riding dead center of the left lane! He stayed there for a while and then moved over to the right lane but not close enough to the curb. Aren't we supposed to stay to the right?

Note that he did not pull these maneuvers to avoid cars. No one was forcing him to do any of this.

What the hell??? This behavior makes all cyclists look bad, and it is extremely dangerous to *US*. Lacking bike lanes or shoulders, the safest place for a bike is on the road, following the same rules of the road the motorists must follow. That's what drivers are expecting to see. If we do something unexpected we pretty much invite accidents.

Joey, did you move to Bellevue?

So on that note, I say do whatever works for you, every rider for themselves. If they didn't cause an accident, I don't see the harm. If they do cause an accident, then it's their problem.


That only is true when the accident involves yourself and you are alone in this world and I doubt this is you, Matt. When you (not meaning you directly) involve someone else because of a stupid, careless or reckless action then you are wrong. Our actions impact other people. People that care about you - family and friends. Innocent strangers who are involved in an accident caused by others are traumatized. Please remember we live in community with others.

Well...cyclists should limit their sidewalk riding speeds to 8-10mph, which is about jogging speed. Want to go faster?...then use the streets.

As far as the cyclists you've seen on that day...they probably drive like they ride and are late for something or want to keep their avg speed up (don't laugh, there are many cyclists that are obsessed with high avg speeds for bragging rights...just read some of the posts in this forum). Seen too many cars roll through the crosswalk or don't stop unless they see cross traffic (cars, not cyclists or motorcycles), forcing pedestrians to dodge or blocking the path for pedestrians to cross safely or blow through stop signs and signals. It's a wonder they stop at all at school crossings with the safety guard waving the stop sign.

Bellevue blows for bicycling, particularily esp. downtown and by the 405.

Eastside motorists hate you because you are on a bike, holding up autocentric progress. They don't care how much of a scofflaw bicyclists are as long as bicyclists stay out of the way.

That place needs a major revamp- take some pavement away from cars and dedicate it to bike travel- if its going to become 'bikeable' enough to get rider share high enough to garner respect. bicyclist behaviors alone, without an increase in ridership, isn't going to cut it in bellevue.

Y'know, really, I think motorists hate us because they can. Their hate was there before they starting grasping for straws.

As a biker and cager, I commend anyone who rides, regardless of how slow I have to go. It takes no dose of intelligence to drive safely around a bicyclist.

But then, that's just me.

I was walking to work this morning in Bellevue at NE 12th St and 116th Ave NE near Overlake hospital. I saw a cyclist on a nice road bike waiting for the green arrow in the left turn lane. Kudos, I thought to myself, he's following the rules of the road! But then he got impatient and cut left across the incoming traffic lanes and got onto the sidewalk opposite traffic!

I was looking at that and shaking my head when something even worse happened.

I heard a mumble directly behind me, and before my brain even registered what was going on, another roadie in red jersey and black shorts zipped right past me to my right. He was on the sidewalk and he was so close he brushed against me as he passed. He turned left and took the same sidewalk the first guy took, went up the sidewalk opposite traffic a few hundred feet, jumped off the curb onto the street, went across opposite lanes of traffic, across the turn lane, and continued riding dead center of the left lane! He stayed there for a while and then moved over to the right lane but not close enough to the curb. Aren't we supposed to stay to the right?

Note that he did not pull these maneuvers to avoid cars. No one was forcing him to do any of this.

What the hell??? This behavior makes all cyclists look bad, and it is extremely dangerous to *US*. Lacking bike lanes or shoulders, the safest place for a bike is on the road, following the same rules of the road the motorists must follow. That's what drivers are expecting to see. If we do something unexpected we pretty much invite accidents.


Maybe sitting at the red light to turn left, he wasnt activating the signal... Ive done this bfore, because I simply am not going to wait until a car comes up behind me to activate the thing. I think it is legal actually to turn left on red in this situation if you arent activating, come to a complete stop, and turn when safe with oncoming traffic.... not positive, but have heard that thrown around other areas before.

I bike commute through Bellevue to work three days/week, including a crossing of 405, and generally fnd motorists to be respectful.


Bellevue blows for bicycling, particularily esp. downtown and by the 405.

Eastside motorists hate you because you are on a bike, holding up autocentric progress. They don't care how much of a scofflaw bicyclists are as long as bicyclists stay out of the way.

That place needs a major revamp- take some pavement away from cars and dedicate it to bike travel- if its going to become 'bikeable' enough to get rider share high enough to garner respect. bicyclist behaviors alone, without an increase in ridership, isn't going to cut it in bellevue.

If there's no car in the LTO lane at that intersection, the sensors won't recognize a bike.



I ride that road and take the same left turn all the time.. it is between my house and 520 trailhead. The sensor always recognizes my Mavic Ksyrium aero wheels.

I was on a recovery ride yesterday on the I-90 trail. There was a punctured 700 tube by the side of the trail 10 FEET FROM A TRASH CAN. C'mon!!! How hard would it have been to toss it into trash?

Today in Kirkland... 7 hills of Kirkland. Today was my swim training in Lake WA so I was driving not riding. A long line of cars stopped at the traffic light in downtown Kirkland. There wasn't enough room on the right side for the typical cycling manouver of passing the stopped cars to get to the front. So three or four cyclists crossed the yellow line into opposite traffic, straight at my Jeep, and passed the stopped line of cars by riding on the wrong side of the road. That's messed up!!!

I could go on and on. The point is, lots of us are pricks. I'm not surprised at some of the responses here, actually.

Go ahead and assert yourself in a race. You have to if you want to win. But out on open road, in traffic, it will get you killed! And it will tarnish the reputation of the rest of us and make it even more difficult to interact with motorists.

Who the hell is Joey?

Some people are going to behave like self centered jerks not matter what their mode of transportation is. I can understand not having the light sensor pick you up and having to skate through a red, some sensors won't even read a motorcycle. As for me, I regularly wait for lights to change. I stay off the sidewalk. I take paralel streets to main roads when I can. I don't know if I help our collective image at all, but I don't get a whole lot of hostile behaviour from motorists when I bike within the law and use some common sense and manners in traffic.

On Friday I was driving on my way to work (the one day I drive to work), and a guy came flying down a sidestreet hill, blew the stop sign and I had to jam the brakes to keep from hitting him as he cut in front of me and another car going the opposite direction of me.

All I could do was shake my head and wonder how many times a day that guy almost gets flattened, and probably doesn't even realize it.

+1 I bike in the Factoria area now. Motorists are way better there than downtown Bellevue. That's because I ride by BCC. Student drivers get it.


I bike commute through Bellevue to work three days/week, including a crossing of 405, and generally fnd motorists to be respectful.

Because my commute is so long. I do hop the sidewalk to bypass lights if possible. That saves me an extra 8-10 min per trip. Especially waiting for 3 school busses to load along 156th. Motorists don't drive along there at that time of the day cuz one bus loads about 30 kids. Takes FOR EVER!

I'm sorry, but when I see all you fair-weather riders start crawling out of your caves and hitting the streets like...wait for it...yes, IDIOTS, I, as a fellow rider and occasional driver, both cringe and get more than a little torqued myself. I've already yelled at more than one rider who has cut me off, passed unsafely, ridden the wrong way (i.e. in the lane I'm using to go the opposite direction), etc.

You need to realize that you're accomplishing a few things:

You're placing your own lives at risk because you're operating your vehicle in an unpredictable and unsafe manner.
You're placing the lives of pedestrians at risk because they, not being able to predict how you're going to ride, may make a poor choice and end up underneath you.
You're placing the lives of other riders at risk for the same reasons as pedestrians. When I see someone coming at me in the bike lane on the right-hand side of the road, I'm the one who ends up moving into traffic to save your sorry *ss.
You are, in a very short time, tearing down all the respect and good will me and my fellow year-round riders have worked hard to build up.


Why do you do this? You split lanes, run lights and signs, hop curbs, and ride against traffic. You want respect and acceptance, but you're not willing to give the same. There's a word for people like you...

One day of a Critical Mass demonstation causes more hate than one idiot rider. I am certain there is not one person here that has followed all the rules of the road [car and bike] and I am certain we all have had our lame excuses for breaking the rules. I too run red lights at times, make faulty judgements that cause others to avoid my mistakes, and some may think I ride like an idiot. I do not want to piss people off on my decisions but sometimes I do. Some people want to make it difficult for others [ie CM] and others do not know they are. Some will grow up and change and others won't.

Joey, did you move to Bellevue?

haha... I was thinking the same thing.

I see this quite often and think that it's inexperienced cyclist or the ones that bike because they have to. I'm not sure this is the case a lot of the times. Joey down in NOLA is a good example of this. He states it's safer for him to ride the way he rides and while I can't say it is or isn't, it sure pisses people off.

I try and ride as courteous as possible and I still have people drive disrespectful around me. It happens because of the actions of others and simply because most people are a-holes. We as cyclist bring a lot of this on ourselves, so let's quit b*tching.

Being in a car on a commute makes some people just hate period.
When I'm ever on the sidewalk i go the speed of the walkers: It's their space not mine.
I'm fighting the Carnosaurs for MY space. :giver:

Re: Bellevue.

I ride through Bellevue all the time. Drivers there aren't any better/worse than anywhere else in the region. As a matter of fact, compared with other cities I've lived in, I think the drivers in the Seattle area are much more aware of and respectful of bikes than elsewhere (ducks...).

Go spend a few years living in Dallas or Houston and let me know if you disagree...

One thing to understand about Bellevue is that downtown BV and much of the city were laid out in the 50's as a "modern" city intended to be traversed by automobile. It was a specific goal of the city fathers to make Bellevue an automobile-friendly city. In fact, I read once that the reason the "blocks" are so large in downtown Bellevue is that they believed that "old fashioned" city blocks, meant to be traveled on foot, should be replaced with bigger street grids meant to be traveled by car. So now BV is trying to make due with what was laid down in the 50's.

Big parts of Bellevue are pretty ghastly to ride through. Other parts aren't so bad.

I was riding the 7 Hills Century route (up Stillwater hill to Kelley Rd) on Sunday 5/31. Just after turning up Stillwater hill, there was a yellow 'Watch out for bicycles' sign with an added message - someone had painted a circle with a line through the bicycle. A while later, on the same road, I stopped and pulled off the road to get something out of my jersey pocket. A flat-bed truck with a tractor loaded on the bed comes by in the opposite direction, and the driver starts flipping me the bird from about 50 yards up the road. I just shook my head, and continued on my route. A little further down the road I came across another vandalized bicycle sign, with the same circle/line message.

I rode that same route Memorial Day, and don't remember seeing the altered signs.

Some other things motorists hate:

Other Motorists
Pedestrians
Stop Signs
Other Motorists
Stop Lights
Speed Limits
Traffic Jams (naturally caused by other motorists

yada yada yada...

I was riding the 7 Hills Century route (up Stillwater hill to Kelley Rd) on Sunday 5/31. Just after turning up Stillwater hill, there was a yellow 'Watch out for bicycles' sign with an added message - someone had painted a circle with a line through the bicycle. A while later, on the same road, I stopped and pulled off the road to get something out of my jersey pocket. A flat-bed truck with a tractor loaded on the bed comes by in the opposite direction, and the driver starts flipping me the bird from about 50 yards up the road. I just shook my head, and continued on my route. A little further down the road I came across another vandalized bicycle sign, with the same circle/line message.

I rode that same route Memorial Day, and don't remember seeing the altered signs.

Head up through Maltby and Snohomish and you'll find a number of hand painted signs about 15' up on the telephone poles: Circled bicycle with a line through it (mostly faded, cheap paint) but the stencilled lettering is still clear. BICYCLE FREE ZONE.
Be glad that all the driver threw at you was a hand gesture. Twice this year I've had drivers throw coins at me.

Head up through Maltby and Snohomish and you'll find a number of hand painted signs about 15' up on the telephone poles: Circled bicycle with a line through it (mostly faded, cheap paint) but the stencilled lettering is still clear. BICYCLE FREE ZONE.
Be glad that all the driver threw at you was a hand gesture. Twice this year I've had drivers throw coins at me.

Where are those signs at? I think they need some modification.

"Be glad that all the driver threw at you was... " :( Your docility makes me sick to my stomach; ride respectfully and demand respect. I've never had a driver throw anything at me, but the first time it happens I'll have them prosecuted for assault.

:( Your docility makes me sick to my stomach;

I don't think you would say that if you met CliftonGFK1 in person.

We're a community here, I think you should also be respectful of other Seattle-area BF members.

I've never had a driver throw anything at me, but the first time it happens I'll have them prosecuted for assault.IF you can remember the make/model of vehicle and license number after your blood boils. Since most don't carry pencil and paper in jersey pockets, perhaps check out how to record voice records on your cell. Mine is simple - Main Menu/My Stuff/Voice Record.

Where are those signs at? I think they need some modification.
Go take a ride out High Bridge Road and you'll find them.

"Be glad that all the driver threw at you was... " :( Your docility makes me sick to my stomach; ride respectfully and demand respect.
:roflmao2: You may be the only person on the boards to describe me as "docile".

I've never had a driver throw anything at me
Then don't lecture me on how to handle the situation.

but the first time it happens I'll have them prosecuted for assault.
Best of luck with that. 20mph eastbound bicycle, 50mph westbound pickup truck. By the time you even realize the handful of nickels bouncing off your face came from the passing truck in the opposite lane, they're a quarter mile down the road.
Try getting the police to do anything more than "take your information" if you haven't landed in the hospital due to your altercation. Seriously, I've dealt with this in cities from one coast to the other and it's the same all over: They're not interested in putting forth the effort.


We're a community here, I think you should also be respectful of other Seattle-area BF members.
+1

Apparently I had a tone. My apologies.

Where are those signs at? I think they need some modification.
Go take a ride out High Bridge Road and you'll find them.
I'll fix them this weekend assuming I can find 'em. I haven't ridden that area, so link me a google map if you have the time.


:roflmao2: You may be the only person on the boards to describe me as "docile".
I wasn't describing you as docile since I don't know you, just objecting to your docile statement that any of us should be 'glad with' (which I take to mean 'content with') any type of driver aggression.


Then don't lecture me on how to handle the situation.
It's not a lecture to say that I plan to prosecute assault on my person. I'm obviously addressing you with that statement, but likewise you were addressing the person before you with yours.


Best of luck with that. 20mph eastbound bicycle, 50mph westbound pickup truck. By the time you even realize the handful of nickels bouncing off your face came from the passing truck in the opposite lane, they're a quarter mile down the road.
Try getting the police to do anything more than "take your information" if you haven't landed in the hospital due to your altercation. Seriously, I've dealt with this in cities from one coast to the other and it's the same all over: They're not interested in putting forth the effort.

In my personal situation I don't usually have trouble catching up with cars. I don't commute on county roads and highways, but if I did and was assaulted even one time, I would take the hyperactive step of installing a video camera for the sake of prosecuting the next one in civil and criminal court. That's me. Respectfully, if a bicyclist isn't taking steps of their own to address aggressive drivers, that's docile. I don't know if that's you. Your comments and the other poster's remark makes me wonder if you have taken matters into your own hands since losing respect for police effort on the matter.

Apparently I had a tone. My apologies.
Don't sweat it. I'm probably a bit snippy about the issue, given that I've had 2 instances of getting coins whipped at me this year.

I'll fix them this weekend assuming I can find 'em. I haven't ridden that area, so link me a google map if you have the time.
Just look up "High Bridge Road" in Maltby and you'll find it. It's also part of the Tour de Cure and Flying Wheels century routes. Surprisingly, it's a nice road and a decent climb to train on. I've only seen one instance of someone getting hassled on it, and that was during the '08 TdC ride. This year, the two guys who got honked at deserved it, since about 15 people all yelled "car back" and they just refused to scoot over.

I wasn't describing you as docile since I don't know you, just objecting to your docile statement that any of us should be 'glad with' (which I take to mean 'content with') any type of driver aggression.
Misunderstanding. It was meant as "At least he didn't chuck a handful of coins at you".


In my personal situation I don't usually have trouble catching up with cars. I don't commute on county roads and highways, but if I did and was assaulted even one time, I would take the hyperactive step of installing a video camera for the sake of prosecuting the next one in civil and criminal court. That's me. Respectfully, if a bicyclist isn't taking steps of their own to address aggressive drivers, that's docile. I don't know if that's you. Your comments and the other poster's remark makes me wonder if you have taken matters into your own hands since losing respect for police effort on the matter.

Depending on where you do most of your riding, catching cars can be easy. Things get pretty spread out between the cities on the eastside and when you get a little ways out of the cities it turns to farming areas pretty quickly. 2-lane 50mph roads are the norm on a lot of the distance rides over this way (Maltby, Snohomish, Carnation, Duvall) and further south (Black Diamond, Yelm, Tenino.) After a couple decades of riding, tens of thousands of miles, and dealing with all sorts of agressive drivers I've learned which stuff is worth my time to go after, and which stuff to just cope with and try to let it go. I've thought about running a camera, but I don't really want the battery hassle for my daily commute (I switched to generator lights for that very reason.) And on my long distance rides I'm not going to carry the batteries necessary to run a camera for 12 - 20 hours.

Anyhow, after a rocky introduction; where in the Seattle area are you, and are you planning to ride the Flying Wheels on the 13th?

Apparently I had a tone. My apologies.
Don't sweat it. I'm probably a bit snippy about the issue, given that I've had 2 instances of getting coins whipped at me this year.

I'll fix them this weekend assuming I can find 'em. I haven't ridden that area, so link me a google map if you have the time.
Just look up "High Bridge Road" in Maltby and you'll find it. It's also part of the Tour de Cure and Flying Wheels century routes. Surprisingly, it's a nice road and a decent climb to train on. I've only seen one instance of someone getting hassled on it, and that was during the '08 TdC ride. This year, the two guys who got honked at deserved it, since about 15 people all yelled "car back" and they just refused to scoot over.

I wasn't describing you as docile since I don't know you, just objecting to your docile statement that any of us should be 'glad with' (which I take to mean 'content with') any type of driver aggression.
Misunderstanding. It was meant as "At least he didn't chuck a handful of coins at you".


In my personal situation I don't usually have trouble catching up with cars. I don't commute on county roads and highways, but if I did and was assaulted even one time, I would take the hyperactive step of installing a video camera for the sake of prosecuting the next one in civil and criminal court. That's me. Respectfully, if a bicyclist isn't taking steps of their own to address aggressive drivers, that's docile. I don't know if that's you. Your comments and the other poster's remark makes me wonder if you have taken matters into your own hands since losing respect for police effort on the matter.

Depending on where you do most of your riding, catching cars can be easy. Things get pretty spread out between the cities on the eastside and when you get a little ways out of the cities it turns to farming areas pretty quickly. 2-lane 50mph roads are the norm on a lot of the distance rides over this way (Maltby, Snohomish, Carnation, Duvall) and further south (Black Diamond, Yelm, Tenino.) After a couple decades of riding, tens of thousands of miles, and dealing with all sorts of agressive drivers I've learned which stuff is worth my time to go after, and which stuff to just cope with and try to let it go. I've thought about running a camera, but I don't really want the battery hassle for my daily commute (I switched to generator lights for that very reason.) And on my long distance rides I'm not going to carry the batteries necessary to run a camera for 12 - 20 hours.

Anyhow, after a rocky introduction; where in the Seattle area are you, and are you planning to ride the Flying Wheels on the 13th?

I live up in North Everett. I don't race or ride recreationally though; my bike is my car. Have fun with those hills :)

I live up in North Everett. I don't race or ride recreationally though; my bike is my car. Have fun with those hills :)

I always have fun with the hills. I'm looking at The Alps 200k permanent from SiR sometime this summer. I rode through (just about all of) Everett during the spring 300k on the way south back to Mukilteo. There were some hills there, too. I don't remember much else, as I was 16 hours in the saddle at that point.

bump

Anybody hear the Ron & Don show on KIRO today? They were dishing out hate for bicycle commuters. I don't listen to them, but happened to scan by and heard the word 'cyclists' and stopped to listen. I don't know which guy is which, but one of R&D proclaimed himself a cyclist and was railing against bicycle commuters - guys wearing triangles - for how they yelled at him and told him his music was too load, and that they think they own the road. I heard two or three listeners call in and agree before I had to let it go.

I was thinking about this thread last night. I was on a sporty recreational ride when a car came up behind me and then the passenger (young male) yelled at me as they passed. It startled me, and as I focused on keeping control of my bike (and my anger), they were quickly far enough away that I couldn't get a make on the license plate (even though I was moving pretty fast at the time).

I never know what people who yell at you, in an obvious attempt to startle you, are trying to accomplish. I think they want to scare you, but likely would feel bad if you actually fell and injured yourself. Just not thinking clearly.

bump

Anybody hear the Ron & Don show on KIRO today? They were dishing out hate for bicycle commuters. I don't listen to them, but happened to scan by and heard the word 'cyclists' and stopped to listen. I don't know which guy is which, but one of R&D proclaimed himself a cyclist and was railing against bicycle commuters - guys wearing triangles - for how they yelled at him and told him his music was too load, and that they think they own the road. I heard two or three listeners call in and agree before I had to let it go.

I probably heard more than you since I took it a different way. Most of you guys are *****in about motorist's and how they drive, throwing stuff at you, scaring you, etc. Now all the motorists out there are not doing that. Kinda line Critical Mass riders are all beating up motorists, not all do and maybe I might even like some of them [I doubt it]. What Ron and Don were spewing about was the crazy bikers that think they own the road. I would have to agree, there are some out there [CM] that feel they do own the road and feel good about taking the middle of the lane since it is the law. Those bikers are not making things better, just like those motorists. I have had many rides in down town Toyko and if you feel they are bad here, try there. Lighten up guys, all the *****in is not going to stop idiots [on both sides of this equation]. Matter of fact, we do not own the road, and do not even pay taxes for the road. Share the road with others and remember we live with idiots and haters. Try not to be one of them.

Matter of fact, we do not own the road, and do not even pay taxes for the road. Share the road with others and remember we live with idiots and haters. Try not to be one of them.

My property taxes and two registered automobiles have a distinctly different view of your opinions. Don't continue under the misguided presumption that taxes on fuel and vehicle tags actually pay for the majority of roadway construction.

My property taxes and two registered automobiles have a distinctly different view of your opinions. Don't continue under the misguided presumption that taxes on fuel and vehicle tags actually pay for the majority of roadway construction.
Bikers do not pay for roads, motorist do, homeowners do, etc [unless there is a new tax for bike parts or bikes I am unaware of].

Bikers do not pay for roads, motorist do, homeowners do, etc [unless there is a new tax for bike parts or bikes I am unaware of].

So, are cyclists all homeless?
Are owning a bicycle and owning a car mutually exclusive?

Even if you rent rather than own, the property is taxed and that cost is passed on to the renter.

Bikers do not pay for roads, motorist do, homeowners do, etc [unless there is a new tax for bike parts or bikes I am unaware of].

I'm hoping your just not communicating your point across instead of just being an idiot. I would bet that 99.x% of cyclist both own cars and homes. Your post doesn't make sense.

Maybe sitting at the red light to turn left, he wasnt activating the signal... Ive done this bfore, because I simply am not going to wait until a car comes up behind me to activate the thing. I think it is legal actually to turn left on red in this situation if you arent activating, come to a complete stop, and turn when safe with oncoming traffic.... not positive, but have heard that thrown around other areas before.

it is legal but only after the lights got through three cycles. sometimes I have to do it with my motorcycle

I'm hoping your just not communicating your point across instead of just being an idiot. I would bet that 99.x% of cyclist both own cars and homes. Your post doesn't make sense.

+1

This "bikers don't pay road taxes" argument sounds like the kind of drivel that shows up on the Seattle PI sound-off pages.

Kids don't pay taxes either, but we still give them a free public education. etc.

If you're advocating a complete pay-for-use public tax and public services system, go for it. We'd need to unravel lots of taxes, get rid of a lot of public services and start from scratch.

I'm prepared to pay my own way but I don't think we'd build the kind of community I want to live in.

Ride safe.

I had just jumped on my bike after taking a short break when an 12 rider pace-line passed me riding 2-3 wide. Since they were running at my speed I hung off the back at a respectable distance. A car comes up behind us and I yell "car back". The folks in the pace-line continued to ride 2-3 wide effectively blocking off the road. The car eventually crossed the double yellow-lines with all 4 wheels and passed the pace-line. The car honked and the folks in the pace-line laughed and exchanged hand jesters with the driver of the car. It felt like the riders really enjoyed the friction that had been created with the car driver.

So I pondered on what had happened for a while. I could see the point of both sides. The riders felt they had every right (even though the laws say single file) to take their share of the road. The driver was irritated that he had to slow down below 25 MPH in a 55 MPH speed zone for an extended period of time. The driver was also irritated that none of the riders made any attempt to make it easier for the driver to pass the group.

At the same time I remembered catching up to a farm tractors traveling at 17-20MPH blocking the same road and making no attempt to get out of the way. There was a line of cars following behind the tractor and when they got a chance to pass nobody honked or made hand jesters at the tractor driver. The pace-line I observed was traveling faster than the farm tractor but it seems the friction between both sides (driver and riders) immediately hit the boil point.

Courtesy goes a long way and is often the best way for different groups to enjoy things without too much in the way of friction. Unfortunately you get to many people who only focus on entitlement and discard being courteous toward other people on the road, motorist or otherwise.

Courtesy goes a long way and is often the best way for different groups to enjoy things without too much in the way of friction. Unfortunately you get to many people who only focus on entitlement and discard being courteous toward other people on the road, motorist or otherwise.I was riding on the Ames Lake Carnation Farm Rd going eastbound towards Carnation when a big farm truck got behind me from the 284th Ave intersection. The road goes uphill there around a bend and he couldn't pass without going into the oncoming lane; because of the curve there, he couldn't see if there was oncoming traffic. I pulled into a driveway to let him pass and he gave me two short beeps and a wave of appreciation. So the experiences are not ALWAYS bad.

That was the same day I got the finger on Kelley Rd.

You guys are missing the point. It appears that most of you are frustrated with motorist in general. When a motorist is upset with a biker then that guy is an idiot. When a biker is upset with a motorist the motorist is still an idiot. We all screw up and we all need to get a long.
As for the tax thing. All motorist help pay for the road, all property owners help, etc. You cannot say that for all bikers. Although it may be a trival comment, it is true. Yes, some motorist own bikes but it is the gas tax that helps. I remember that Seattle wanted to tax bikers [or bikes] and the bikers were all up in arms. I do not remember it fully but it was something similar to that. I would not be happy about paying taxes for riding my bike but I would understand that the bike lane made only for me and my bike should be paid by those that use it.

No, it's still a really dumb comment -- most roads are paid for through property taxes, and almost everyone pays those.

Re: paying for roads, it's also worth noting that the lion's share of municipal roadway budgets (where cyclists actually ride) are devoted to the continual repair of damage caused principally by motor vehicles.

Adult cyclists (in fact anyone who does not routinely drive a motor vehicle) already subsidize adult drivers and have for many years. Given this, it's not unusual in any way for us to expect our needs to be met and historical funding inequities to be corrected.

If you really want to know where gas tax distributions go, cruise on over to the WSDOT web site. They have a county by county breakdown of projects funded by gas taxes - almost all of which are major freeway projects like widening I-405. I don't know about you, but I don't ride on 405...