Folding Bikes - Schwalbe Big Apple versus Primo Comet? Other 406mm fat tires?

I own a Swift Folder with the stock Kenda Kwest 1.5" tires. I like the bike a lot, but I've found the ride to be a little harsh and a little twitchy. Over the winter I put on some 2.1" BMX tires, the fattest I could fit, to ride in the snow. They were really heavy, and the super-stiff sidewalls made them feel sluggish and harsh, but they raised the bike a bit and gave it more trail. Suddenly, the handling was spot-on, not twitchy at all, and the bike felt excellent while cornering.

So now I'm looking for a fat slick tire (around 2") that's lighter and has thinner sidewalls than typical BMX tires. I've come across the Schwalbe Big Apple (seemingly a classic) and the Primo Comet (cheaper, lighter, but no flat protection or reflective sidewall). How do these two compare? Are there any other fat slicks for 406mm wheels I should be aware of?

Thanks.

I can't speak to the 20" question, but I have used both Big Apples and Comets in the 16" size. I have a Big Apple on the front of my Downtube Mini, which has been there for over 4,000 miles. It replaced a Primo Comet 16 x 1.35" that had worn out after maybe 500. In the mean time I have used up two more Comets on the rear wheel of that bike, as well as two Schwalbe Marathon 16 x 1.5" tires (that had both been used a little before then). My current rear tire is a Comet 1.5" with a second Comet 1.5" inside it, as a liner (I cut off the bead. The inner one got a gash in it, but was too new to just throw it away, so I'm using it as a liner. No flats on that one yet).

I know it's not a fair comparison, since my Big Apple has only been on the front, and the rear tire gets a lot more abuse; but comparing it to the Primo I'd have to say the Big Apple is a far more durable tire.

By the way, the Comets I used were the more expensive variety that has a Kevlar belt. They ride nicely, but they don't hold up as well as I think they should.

When my current tires wear out I'm replacing the front one with another Big Apple, and the rear one with Marathon (slightly thinner).

Which 2" BMX tires did you try? From what I gather, there are several Kevlar-belted smooth-tread foldable 2"+ tires for BMX bikes that fit the bill. The foldable tires are quite light -- according to specs -- relative to the Big Apple.

I can't fit them on my NWT. But since we started looking at tandems, I have kept my eyes open for fast slick fat tires.

EDIT: By the way, there is a 2.1" Primo Comet too.

Maxis Grifter is good but no reflective sidewall.

Rudi, what stops you putting a Big Apple on the rear as well?

Invisiblehand:
I was using the SNAFU dirt box. Good tire for riding in the snow, but definitely not a street tire. Where can I find these BMX tires you speak of?

Have you considered Thudbuaster? Not a tire but it also helps with the harsh ride.

Kam

I have two folders: one with 20"x2" Big Apples; the other with 20X1.35" Primo Comets.

Keep in mind with these comments that the Comet is thinner, and PSI is 40lb higher, but otherwise:
1. Big Apples soak up road buzz/vibration really well relative to the Comet.
2. Comet is noticeably faster.
3. Big Apples soak up a lot of "curb hopping"/uneven pavement/pothole jarring.
4. Comets feel every bump and irregularity
I really like the Comet for speed and rolling. The 1.35 is also juuuust wide enough that my one metal-grate bridge on my commute grabs at the tire to suck it in, but can't quite do it. The Big Apples are really leaden, but nice on city streets. Find me the Descartes of tires that can be a marriage of both :)
Conclusion: Until I find wear/flatting problems on my Comets, I will continue to use that bike with those tires. It makes the ride more enjoyable for me. I don't mind some road buzz and have adapted to not hopping curbs.

Are there any other fat slicks for 406mm wheels I should be aware of?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/SGEdFXH29CI/AAAAAAAAFjw/mRWSXy77MwU/s400/Tikit+Scorcher+.JPG

I use Greenspeed Scorchers on my NWT [406] and Tikit [349]. They are fast, comfortable and the TR version I have has had zero punctures since last year. My favourite small wheel tire.

I use Tioga Pool Comp 1.75" slicks on my 2005 Dahon Boardwalk S1. They have worked very well - only one flat in 2 years. Here's some info on them. Have read that the Scorchers development are a direct result of the Pool Comps success.

http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=468&idcategory=0

...and, I have a Thudbuster seat post on that bike, and the Fridays too. Highly recommended.

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Two notes:
-The thudbuster is cool, but it's kinda pricey and it doesn't help with the trail issue (the bike is twitchy; fat tires give it more steering trail and help it track better through turns)
-I'm talking about the Comets in the 1.95" flavor. I'm hoping for tires that are a minimum of maybe 1.85" wide.

Invisiblehand:
I was using the SNAFU dirt box. Good tire for riding in the snow, but definitely not a street tire. Where can I find these BMX tires you speak of?

For instance ...

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=3305

I noticed the KHE Premium folding tire a while back but have no experience with the tire. On that same page is a Demolition Monoco which is also a high pressure smooth tread folding tire.

EDIT: Roughly, it looks like a folding bead will knock off 5 oz of weight.

Rudi, what stops you putting a Big Apple on the rear as well?

Nothing stopping me, just don't want to! Oh, fine, I'll offer you two reasons:

1. Fatter tire in front gives better handling, thinner tire in rear gives less rolling resistance.

2. Larger tire = larger diameter wheel, so larger in front and smaller in rear effectively changes the geometry of the bike, making the steerer tube slightly more slack, with the effect of slightly better handling (in my opinion).

Invisiblehand,
Thanks for the link. Lots of interesting stuff there.

Animal ASM

I was thinking of putting some fat slick tires in my Xootr Swift too. I decided to get the Primo Comets, but then noticed that the 20 x 1.90 are almost double the weight of the 20 x 1.50. I will make up my mind in a few minutes on which to buy. Did the BMX tires feel faster than the stock Kenda Kwest?

Joako:
No, but that's because they were pretty aggressively treaded down the center line. But I could tell that a fat slick would definitely roll better than the current Kendas on rough roads. Aside from absorbing some road buzz, fat tires increase the overall diameter of the wheel, which helps it roll over irregularities in the road surface. This effect was very noticeable with the BMX tires, and I have no doubt that fat slick tires pumped up to decently high pressure (60-70PSI) would be significantly faster than the stock ones.

Joako:
No, but that's because they were pretty aggressively treaded down the center line. But I could tell that a fat slick would definitely roll better than the current Kendas on rough roads. Aside from absorbing some road buzz, fat tires increase the overall diameter of the wheel, which helps it roll over irregularities in the road surface. This effect was very noticeable with the BMX tires, and I have no doubt that fat slick tires pumped up to decently high pressure (60-70PSI) would be significantly faster than the stock ones.

Thanks. I picked up the Primo 20 x 1.5 due to the difference in weight. Try this website: http://www.danscomp.com/products.php?cat=PARTS&show=TIRESFREESTYLE
They have some slick tires and their prices are good. I also found a free shipping coupon when I was looking for tires there 3 weeks ago. NAH450BK

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Two notes:
-The thudbuster is cool, but it's kinda pricey and it doesn't help with the trail issue (the bike is twitchy; fat tires give it more steering trail and help it track better through turns)
-I'm talking about the Comets in the 1.95" flavor. I'm hoping for tires that are a minimum of maybe 1.85" wide.

I currently run the Primo Comets 1.9 on my Swift. I can't speak to how they compare to other tires except the stock Kendas, which I immediately chucked. I love the Big Apples in other sizes on other bikes, but can't offer an opinion in an Apple to Apple (!) comparison.

A few observations of the 1.9 Comets:


As some one already pointed out, they are heavy.
They will not easily clear your brake pads when fully inflated. Keep this in mind if you need to quickly remove your wheels.
They induce quite a bit of "flop" on the Swift due to its weight and size.


Given my experience with these, I would personally switch to a smaller size next time I need tires.

Thanks!