Tandem Cycling - Tire replacement for a 450 LB tandem

All,
I know this subject has come up a few times in the last few months, so forgive me for trying to beat a what seems to be a dead horse.
When riding our loaded tandem it weighs about 450LB. That includes riders, bike and panniers. We bought the bike used with less than 500 miles on it. It came with Ultra Gatorskins 700x28c that looked like they had low mileage. I was going to ride these tires until they were worn out and then replace them.

This weekend I had a blowout that separated the wire bead from the tire. after replacing the tube and using the folded dollar bill method we managed another mile before it blew out again:
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http://picasaweb.google.com/fgeilen/Route66?authkey=Gv1sRgCKLanOX_pOGF1wE#5339954449148288962

So now the question of a replacement tire has become quite urgent. I had asked Continental about weight limits for a Ultra Gatorskin, but they never answered. Given that the Gatorskins had less than a 1000 miles on them, I think I won't use them again

Are there heavier tandem couples that have good experiences with a tire? I think in order of importance these are my criteria for a good tire:
1. Flatproof and durability. I am looking for a tire that can handle the extra weight and provide some flatproofing (I do realize that even the best tires will get a flat every now and then)
2. Rolling resistance/grip.
3. Weight. I'd like to keep the weight down, but I understand that trade offs will have to be made
3. Price. I am willing to pay a premium price for the right tire

I was thinking of going to a 32c, since wider tires tend to have a higher rated max. weight. Some tires I was thinking about are the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme (not the Plus) in 700x32c or a Specialized Nimbus Armadillo in 28c. I would welcome validation of my thoughts and any other suggestions.
Duppie

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_jm8Vwc9ea5Q/ShtUR3pAH8I/AAAAAAAAAb0/G_5fu52Ghfs/s800/PICT0987.JPG
Here is your picture.^^^^ No ideas from me though, you are outside my range of experience.

I wouldn't go LESS than 32c. The weight you're putting on those tires demands more air volume. Personally I would go for 35's, but that's just me.
I have no recommendations for tires, though.
-Gene-

We have a similar team weight when fully loaded. I'd also go with 700x32 at a minimum. 48-spoke wheels if possible. I've had good luck with Panaracer Pasela Tourguard tires, which are modestly priced. I'm riding Schawlbe Marathon at the moment because it has ribbing to drive a sidewall dynamo.

You might want to consider a larger tire, but regarding the blowout it's possible some damage was done to the tire prior to your acquiring the tandem. My wife and I test road a tandem about 4 weeks ago. Weight of team plus tandem about 400 lbs. LBS pumped up the tires just before the ride. I hit a (hidden!) sharp rock with both front and rear and blew them both out. Probably damaged the casing as well. I don't know I would blame this on either our weight or the tire.

Tires were 700cx28 continental ultra gatorskins. I e-mailed the tandem manufacturer and he indicated that I could fit up to 38mm tires, but I'm trying out the 28mm that came with the ride.

Whatever your current wheels, they will let you know whether they are strong enough; periodically check for looses spokes and definitely before every ride give the wheels a spin and check for out of true. I believe a great deal depends on the rim and the lacing pattern. You might contact the manufacturer for additional information.

My wife and I experienced a similar situation. We ripped the sidewall in a slow speed uphill knockdown. I assume the tire peeled off the rim as we were going over (and I was trying desperately to hold us up). To prevent this from ever happening again, I keep an extra tire and tube in our bag. We've never had a flat since, so I guess this method works quite well.

Thanks guys for your replies. They validate my assumption that I may have to go to a 32c/35c width.


We have a similar team weight when fully loaded. I'd also go with 700x32 at a minimum. 48-spoke wheels if possible. I've had good luck with Panaracer Pasela Tourguard tires, which are modestly priced. I'm riding Schawlbe Marathon at the moment because it has ribbing to drive a sidewall dynamo.

Are you riding Marathon or Marathon Plus, and in what width? The difference between Marathon and the Plus is a continuous source of confusion in the commuting forum.
I am wondering whether a Marathon would do the trick. I installed a set of Marathon Pluses in 700x35c and combined with fenders it doesn't fit. The tire rubs against the screw with which the fenders are installed. The Marathon Plus is also a particularly thick tire and is rated at a hefty 890g.


To prevent this from ever happening again, I keep an extra tire and tube in our bag. We've never had a flat since, so I guess this method works quite well.

I did indeed learn my lesson there. We were in rural Illinois when it happened. Luckily it happened in front of the only farm in a mile or more. The farmer's wife was extremely helpful.


Thanks, Duppie

FWIW, here is one guys thoughts on your tire situation.
We are a 305 pound team (plus bike), have ridden our tandems for the last 20 yrs, have put a lot of miles on 'em particularly over the last three and do so on some pretty crappy and remote roads. What has served us well has been the basic practice of always running more tire and wheel than needed for our team weight and application. While we can safely run a 25c tires we go with a 28c...36 or less spokes would work but we have 48, HF 08 hubs would work fine but we go with Phil's. While speed is important to us, safety, reliability and security are more so. We have never regretted the extra margin that strong wheels and tires have given us in exchange for giving up a little speed and a few extra dollars.
So unless you plan on some time trialing or the like, I would encourage you to find what will work and go a step up from there. IMHO there is little downside. Good luck, have fun.

Bill J.

... Are you riding Marathon or Marathon Plus, and in what width? ...

700x32. Can't get anything bigger because they rub against the seat-stay yoke. Pretty sure they're Marathon. The extra weight of the Plus just doesn't seem worth it. For that matter, the extra weight and rolling resistance of the Marathon would not be worth it, except it has ribbing to help spin a sidewall dynamo, which is what I'm running for night riding. So the rear tire gets a Marathon and the front will have a Panaracer Pasela (non-Tourguard), which has lower rolling resistance. It might get a flat more easily, but I haven't gotten more than a couple of flats on these "non-flat-resistant" Pasela's in the last ten thousand miles, so I'm willing to risk an occasional flat.

700x32. Can't get anything bigger because they rub against the seat-stay yoke. Pretty sure they're Marathon. The extra weight of the Plus just doesn't seem worth it. For that matter, the extra weight and rolling resistance of the Marathon would not be worth it, except it has ribbing to help spin a sidewall dynamo, which is what I'm running for night riding. So the rear tire gets a Marathon and the front will have a Panaracer Pasela (non-Tourguard), which has lower rolling resistance. It might get a flat more easily, but I haven't gotten more than a couple of flats on these "non-flat-resistant" Pasela's in the last ten thousand miles, so I'm willing to risk an occasional flat.

I have had a similar experience with the Paselas. The other tire that I have run is the Grand Bois 30 or 32. I am very pleased with the performance of the Gran Bois - which I prefer over Continental Gatorskins that many other tandem riders prefer.

We are in the high 300's low 400's when fully loaded for brevets. We are randonneurs so we tend to ride long distances at moderate speeds.

The Paselas, with more tread, make a little more noise when running fast, but are a good tire and inexpensive. The Grand Bois are expensive, lighter, quieter and a little faster. Both will be much more comfortable than anything in a 28.

I did have one weird experience with the Paselas. The rear tire blew off the rim on a very hot day (over 100) after a long descent. Not sure why. I have heard that it could have something to do with the Velocity rims, but I have put on thousands of miles since and had no problems. I have thought that it may have been mounted incorrectly, but we rode this tire for several hundred miles (about 70 that day) without a problem before the blow out. Could also have been due to overheating the rims on the descent - but there are several on this forum that think that this is impossible. After this incident, I put a new tube in it, remounted the tire and proceeded to ride it on a 600k brevet.

I eventually wore the tire out without further incident - go figure.

Aside from that one freak experience I feel comfortable recommending them.

Flats for either the Paselas or the Grand Bois are inconsequential. Both offer reasonable protection. The flats that I have gotten likely would have flatted any tire - nails, chunks of glass and those pesky goathead thorns. We did a 1,200 k Randonnee without a single flat on the Grand Bois.

Your results may vary.

The Ultra Gatorskin 28C on our rear wheel suffered a bead separation today much like the OP's did. (Crew + vehicle weight 320 lb.) Just happened to notice it when I had that side of the tire off to fix a puncture unrelated to the bead failure, so fortunately no blowout. It was only a centimetre of bead showing but with a fingernail I could easily tear more of the carcass away from the bead. That's why we always ride with a spare 25C folding tire and finished the ride uneventfully. Not very impressed with the tire bead bonding though. It was new this time last year and was only beginning to get a flat spot in the middle of the tread. Mind you we had ridden a couple of centuries and a 2-week tour in the the mountains, but not through the winter at all. Still, I like my tires to declare their senility by admitting more frequent punctures, not by suddenly tearing away their beads.

[...]While speed is important to us, safety, reliability and security are more so. We have never regretted the extra margin that strong wheels and tires have given us in exchange for giving up a little speed and a few extra dollars.
So unless you plan on some time trialing or the like, I would encourage you to find what will work and go a step up from there. IMHO there is little downside. Good luck, have fun.

Bill J.

Bill, that is some great advice: Realizing that we are not a speedmonster, and therefore solutions that work well for a lighter, speed-oriented tandem couple may not be correct for us

I put on a set of lightly used Schwalbe Marathon Supremes in 700x32c. The Supremes are my hands down favorite tire on my commuter bikes. Took the tandem out for a test ride this weekend. They worked out great. They are very grippy, with only a small penalty for rolling resistance.

Duppie