Advocacy & Safety - Taking the lane at 12 mph?

I am not a fast rider. I usually average in the 11-12 mph range. I don't have a road bike, don't want a road bike, don't need a road bike. I ride a comfort bike, with fat tires and I I like it that way :)

I am starting to commute to work, 11 miles. My only available route is a 40-45mph two lane road, not terribly busy, but not totally quiet, somewhat hilly and winding. I have no other route due to the fact that I am surrounded by lakes and there are only a couple of roads that have bridges over them. The other route is a state highway and full of semi-trucks, so this is my best option. Some parts have a great shoulder, others do not. I take the lane at lights or when I am going to turn, otherwise I stay on the shoulder or to the left of the lane, and cars are usually pretty good about passing wide around me. I have a mirror, so I can see what is coming up behind me, and I wear obnoxious clothing and have blinkies and reflective strips galore.

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

I am not a fast rider. I usually average in the 11-12 mph range. I don't have a road bike, don't want a road bike, don't need a road bike. I ride a comfort bike, with fat tires and I I like it that way :)

I am starting to commute to work, 11 miles. My only available route is a 40-45mph two lane road, not terribly busy, but not totally quiet, somewhat hilly and winding. I have no other route due to the fact that I am surrounded by lakes and there are only a couple of roads that have bridges over them. The other route is a state highway and full of semi-trucks, so this is my best option. Some parts have a great shoulder, others do not. I take the lane at lights or when I am going to turn. Otherwise I stay on the shoulder or to the left of the lane, and cars are usually pretty good about passing wide around me. I have a mirror, so I can see what is coming up behind me, and I wear obnoxious clothing and have blinkies and reflective strips galore.

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

Sounds to me that you have your stuff together and made the proper choices based on your experiences and circumstances. Pay zero attention to what someone else advocates as correct, proper or best, if it doesn't serve YOUR purposes.

FWIW, I would probably ride just like you in the described circumstances, at any bike speed that wasn't at least 40-45mph.

^ What ILTB said. Ride however gets you out and back in one piece.

Heifzilla, like you I ride around 11 to 12 mph avg. My commute is about 11.5 miles one way. It is entirely in an urban area. 2 of the roadways are 35 mph, 4 lane undivided arterial streets. I ride in the right half of the right hand travel lane. About 1' to 2' off of the curb, where car tires ride in the lane. Last year I was closer tot he curb and guess what happened? Drivers always passed me too close, often almost hitting me. Since I have been taking this half of the travel lane this year I am treated like a vehicle of the roadway and have yet to be passed too close.

Sure there may be some cyclists, even some from bikeforums.net that think and are of the opinion and attitude that if you can not maintain an avg speed of more then 13 mph you should not be riding on the roadways. You know what? That's ok, let them think that. You are doing what's right and best for you as am I.

I have been commuting for a long time and only recently made a change in my riding style as described above and it has worked great. The differance in my bike though is I ride a recumbent.

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

A lot of people on this forum like to loudly crank up the 'alpha male' nonsense. Plenty of us are cruising at 15 or less.

I am not a fast rider. I usually average in the 11-12 mph range. I don't have a road bike, don't want a road bike, don't need a road bike. I ride a comfort bike, with fat tires and I I like it that way :)

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

I take the lane on a bike similar to yours and at similar speeds on a 35mph road with two lanes in the same direction. The road bikers that I see in this area tend to be curb huggers.

Specific techniques vary according to the circumstances but I believe the key to success in taking the lane is to be as visible as possible to motorists (using clothing, lights, and proper lane positioning) and being able to monitor their actions with a mirror.

I am not a fast rider. I usually average in the 11-12 mph range. I don't have a road bike, don't want a road bike, don't need a road bike. I ride a comfort bike, with fat tires and I I like it that way :)

I am starting to commute to work, 11 miles. My only available route is a 40-45mph two lane road, not terribly busy, but not totally quiet, somewhat hilly and winding. I have no other route due to the fact that I am surrounded by lakes and there are only a couple of roads that have bridges over them. The other route is a state highway and full of semi-trucks, so this is my best option. Some parts have a great shoulder, others do not. I take the lane at lights or when I am going to turn, otherwise I stay on the shoulder or to the left of the lane, and cars are usually pretty good about passing wide around me. I have a mirror, so I can see what is coming up behind me, and I wear obnoxious clothing and have blinkies and reflective strips galore.

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

Only "take the lane" when you need to... such as to get around parked cars or if there is no shoulder. (and no, I have no problem what so ever of riding on a nice road shoulder... )

Taking the lane to make a point just makes the point to motorists that cyclists can be jerks.

On the other hand, if you have no choice, and have to take the lane, do not hug the curb, put yourself out there so motorists can see and eaily evaluate you long before they get to you.

Ride however gets you out and back in one piece.

This.

Take the lane whenever you feel necessary.

Only "take the lane" when you need to... such as to get around parked cars or if there is no shoulder. (and no, I have no problem what so ever of riding on a nice road shoulder... )

Taking the lane to make a point just makes the point to motorists that cyclists can be jerks.

On the other hand, if you have no choice, and have to take the lane, do not hug the curb, put yourself out there so motorists can see and eaily evaluate you long before they get to you.

Bolding mine.

That is it in a nutshell. If you need the lane take it. Don't take it just because you can.

A lot of people on this forum like to loudly crank up the 'alpha male' nonsense. Plenty of us are cruising at 15 or less.

I generally ride pretty slow. I'm guessing 8-12mph. I totally agree with the "alpha male" comment. You've got to use common sense when reading the posting's on BF. If I worried about looking cool or riding fast, I'd probably be better off looking for another form of transport! :)

Sounds to me like your using your head! Ride safe, take care.

My only available route is a 40-45mph two lane road, not terribly busy, but not totally quiet, somewhat hilly and winding.

I find a not so static lane position beneficial in the above conditions. In the absence of faster same direction traffic, I'm near the center of the lane. Much better sight lines out there and cleaner pavement too. When there is oncoming traffic I'll stay out there if someone comes up behind, and sometimes even signal for them to wait if it looks like they are not slowing. Once it is safe for them to pass, I'll glide over to the right a little and wave. Moderate motor traffic makes this quite a pleasant ride.

To a motorist going 45, there is not much difference in a cyclist in front of them going 12 vs. 20 mph.

The "alpha male" comment is BS. VC does not mean never using a shoulder (even when the shoulder is wide enough, has a proper surface and is clean of debris). Most here understand that but some choose to ignore it to deride VC, even while most of them ride VC themselves. Using a safe shoulder and allowing faster vehicles to pass in a safe manner, is applying the slow moving vehicles laws that VCers strongly support. But when the shoulder is not safe to use, the road is not safe to share or your approaching an intersection, then your best position is to take the right most through lane.

Your post indicates you are taking the lane when needed, riding properly and safely per VC techniques. So I would say, continue enjoying your commute.

I always take the lane. My safety is far more important than succumbing to impatient drivers. For me it is either take the lane or ride on the sidewalk at pedestrian speeds.

It doesn't matter what speed you are going when taking the lane. Sometimes I am doing just 5 mph on an uphill 45 mph road. Main thing is get a powerful tail light so cars see you way in advance. In fact I think 10-15 mph is optimal since it lets you focus on what's in front and behind you better.

I am not a fast rider. I usually average in the 11-12 mph range. I don't have a road bike, don't want a road bike, don't need a road bike. I ride a comfort bike, with fat tires and I I like it that way :)

I am starting to commute to work, 11 miles. My only available route is a 40-45mph two lane road, not terribly busy, but not totally quiet, somewhat hilly and winding. I have no other route due to the fact that I am surrounded by lakes and there are only a couple of roads that have bridges over them. The other route is a state highway and full of semi-trucks, so this is my best option. Some parts have a great shoulder, others do not. I take the lane at lights or when I am going to turn, otherwise I stay on the shoulder or to the left of the lane, and cars are usually pretty good about passing wide around me. I have a mirror, so I can see what is coming up behind me, and I wear obnoxious clothing and have blinkies and reflective strips galore.

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

Since you are 'taking the lane' on a 40-45mph road, you need to go faster 11-12mph. Going that speed on a two-lane road with that speed limit, while 'taking the lane', is inviting you to become 'roadkill'.

If you were on a four-lane road, you wouldn't have as much of a problem. Because, The traffic behind you could easily go into the passing lane to pass you.

Since you can only do what you are presently doing, just make sure the traffic sees' you.

Since you are 'taking the lane' on a 40-45mph road, you need to go faster 11-12mph. Going that speed on a two-lane road with that speed limit, while 'taking the lane', is inviting you to become 'roadkill'.


12MPH is a respectable bicycle speed. Speeding up to 15 or 18 isn't going to change anything.

The "alpha male" comment is BS.

What's BS is your reading comprehension.

I ride no closer to the side of the road than about 1.5 2 feet off the curb. I do not ride on emergency lanes (shoulders). Have no trouble at any speed.

Now, now, boys, let's not fight :lol: Everyone is giving me good advice in their own ways.

The benefit of having a tank for a bike is that I can usually handle somewhat crummy road conditions without much issue, so I am able to stick closer to the edge. When I hit those areas where there is absolutely no shoulder and the white line area is kind of broken up, I do move more into the lane because I have to in order to be safe.

I agree with comment "Taking the lane to make a point just makes the point to motorists that cyclists can be jerks." I am not against taking the lane when I need it, but I just don't feel comfortable always being in the middle of it all the time.

I have found that in general, if I am trying to be courteous to drivers, they try to be courteous to me as well. With occasional exceptions, like the jerk motorcylist that buzzed me and flipped me off the other day :rolleyes: But you find that with everything. But being courteous doesn't mean I cringe against the side of the roads, either.

I think for my situation out here in BFI, this works decently. Maybe the key is adapting yourself to each situation. I would probably ride differently in the city, for example. I know for certain that I definitely drive more aggressively there because everyone else is being more aggressive, too.

Thanks for all the responses.

Heif

12MPH is a respectable bicycle speed. Speeding up to 15 or 18 isn't going to change anything.

No, But going 20mph will.

No, But going 20mph will.

Baloney! It is still less than half the speed of the motorized traffic and 12mph or 20mph cyclists appear identical to an impatient or unskilled motorist.

Only "take the lane" when you need to... such as to get around parked cars or if there is no shoulder. (and no, I have no problem what so ever of riding on a nice road shoulder... )

Taking the lane to make a point just makes the point to motorists that cyclists can be jerks.

On the other hand, if you have no choice, and have to take the lane, do not hug the curb, put yourself out there so motorists can see and eaily evaluate you long before they get to you.

Just as you say, 'taking the lane' to make a point, just says cyclists can be jerks. Drivers don't need help, when they profess to being idiots, by their bad driving.

It is riders like you(darn you are lucky), that can ride on the shoulder and, not feel like you are about to become 'roadkill'. I congratulate you.

For me, riding the shoulder, ever since May 14, 2008 (I was hit by a driver who claimed they didn't see me. When I had been in front of them moments before) has felt like tempting suicide.

I feel safer, 'taking the lane' than, riding on the shoulder.

I have found that in general, if I am trying to be courteous to drivers, they try to be courteous to me as well. You should be giving advice instead of asking for it. Thanks for yourcomments.

Just as you say, 'taking the lane' to make a point, just says cyclists can be jerks. Drivers don't need help, when they profess to being idiots, by their bad driving.

It is riders like you(darn you are lucky), that can ride on the shoulder and, not feel like you are about to become 'roadkill'. I congratulate you.

For me, riding the shoulder, ever since May 14, 2008 (I was hit by a driver who claimed they didn't see me. When I had been in front of them moments before) has felt like tempting suicide.

I feel safer, 'taking the lane' than, riding on the shoulder.
If a driver doesn't see you, your chances are better on the shoulder than the middle of the road. How often are they driving on the shoulder anyway?

I am not a fast rider. I usually average in the 11-12 mph range. I don't have a road bike, don't want a road bike, don't need a road bike. I ride a comfort bike, with fat tires and I I like it that way :)

I am starting to commute to work, 11 miles. My only available route is a 40-45mph two lane road, not terribly busy, but not totally quiet, somewhat hilly and winding. I have no other route due to the fact that I am surrounded by lakes and there are only a couple of roads that have bridges over them. The other route is a state highway and full of semi-trucks, so this is my best option. Some parts have a great shoulder, others do not. I take the lane at lights or when I am going to turn, otherwise I stay on the shoulder or to the left of the lane, and cars are usually pretty good about passing wide around me. I have a mirror, so I can see what is coming up behind me, and I wear obnoxious clothing and have blinkies and reflective strips galore.

I know many people here do advocate taking the lane, but everyone seems to be going 20+ mph when they do it, but should this be done at 12 mph on a 40-45 mph road?

You're dong just fine. Some may do 20mph+ but the vast majority do not, especially when the road starts a little upward. Just ride predictably and courteously and you will have minimal problems. Remember, your safety comes first, not the convenience of someone else to get to where they are going a few seconds faster. ;)

I typically stay about where the right tire track is, which works fine for most of my roads. Multi-lane, higher traffic and/or higher speed roads I'll take the lane. Also at all intersections when I come to a stop.

As others said, do what works for you and keeps you safe for your road conditions.

If a driver doesn't see you, your chances are better on the shoulder than the middle of the road. How often are they driving on the shoulder anyway?

By 'taking the lane', a cyclist is forced to be more attentive to road/traffic conditions than, if they were riding on the shoulder.

At the same time, 'Yes, How often will a car/truck be riding the shoulder?'.

No, But going 20mph will.

If you are not going 50mph on a 45mph road you are in the way. People get really ticked off sometimes when I am sprinting at 2mph above the speed limit taking the lane in certain areas because they can't pass me.

Honestly all 20mph does that 12mph doesn't is change the force that will propel you forward by 8mph less if someone hits you from behind or give you 8mph more force when someone cuts you off from a side street. This is why even at 4mph I won't suck the curb unless I'm causing a slowdown and I know the person behind me sees me and moving over a bit will make it safe to pass. If there is an 8ft wide shoulder and a wide enough lane for the car by itself that changes things but 3ft does not a shoulder make.

By 'taking the lane', a cyclist is forced to be more attentive to road/traffic conditions than, if they were riding on the shoulder.

At the same time, 'Yes, How often will a car/truck be riding the shoulder?'.

bout half the time from my experience. Ever notice that anytime a driver drifts or moves left for some reason (passing, inattentive, fiddling with something, yapping on the phone) they tend to overcompensate back to the right and drift over the fog line? As a competent driver, I have often marveled at the inability of many to keep that thing between the lines. :lol:

As for the speed...your speed isn't going to change much. If your number is up, I don't care how fast you are going, how many eyes you have in the back of your head, how much protective gear you are wearing, who you know or who you think you know...you're gonna have a bad day. So do your best in the way you feel is best and don't worry so much about it. ;)

I have taken the lane going 2mph. I made sure no one was behind me long. Per state law 5 cars. I didn't have a problem pulling off once there was a pull out either to rest :)

Using a mirror it makes it easy to ditch I might add. Of course here/example would have been failure.

I have found that in general, if I am trying to be courteous to drivers, they try to be courteous to me as well. With occasional exceptions, like the jerk motorcylist that buzzed me and flipped me off the other day :rolleyes: But you find that with everything. But being courteous doesn't mean I cringe against the side of the roads, either.



My experience has been the opposite. I see it as dog eat dog out there. If you show weakness and fear you'll get bullied and abused. If you ride assertively and look professional, then drivers assume you know what you're doing.

So I would recommend upgrading your bike with road tires and get a powerful taillight.

If you ride assertively and look professional, then drivers assume you know what you're doing.But if you're wobbling all over the road they'll give you more room.

Just as you say, 'taking the lane' to make a point, just says cyclists can be jerks. Drivers don't need help, when they profess to being idiots, by their bad driving.

It is riders like you(darn you are lucky), that can ride on the shoulder and, not feel like you are about to become 'roadkill'. I congratulate you.

For me, riding the shoulder, ever since May 14, 2008 (I was hit by a driver who claimed they didn't see me. When I had been in front of them moments before) has felt like tempting suicide.

I feel safer, 'taking the lane' than, riding on the shoulder.

I'm sorry that you were hit, that sucks, and I can see why your attitude is the way it is towards taking the lane. I feel the opposite, really, that by being in the middle of the road I am asking to get hit by a car.

My experience has been the opposite. I see it as dog eat dog out there. If you show weakness and fear you'll get bullied and abused. If you ride assertively and look professional, then drivers assume you know what you're doing.

So I would recommend upgrading your bike with road tires and get a powerful taillight.

I don't want skinny little road tires. Part of my commute is through a field (to avoid some busier roads) and road tires would have me sinking into the mud or they'd get destroyed by the rough ground. I am working on getting a powerful taillight. Right now I have blinkies, lots of blinkies :)

You can be courteous without being weak or showing fear. I ride as if I belong where I am on the road, but I also understand that a 2000 lb vehicle can crush me like a pop can. I'm cautious, but not cringing. If I feel I need the lane for my safety, I take it.

I'm sorry that you were hit, that sucks, and I can see why your attitude is the way it is towards taking the lane. I feel the opposite, really, that by being in the middle of the road I am asking to get hit by a car.

With experience you'll get over it, because you'll know if you are in the lane it's because you need to be. ;)

By 'taking the lane', a cyclist is forced to be more attentive to road/traffic conditions than, if they were riding on the shoulder.



Since I am on a bicycle without the protection of a metal cage around me and there are 2000+ lb vehicles speeding at me, I am hyper aware of road/traffic conditions. I don't see how taking the lane makes you more attentive. You're still on the road, regardless, unless you are riding on the sidewalk.

Since I am on a bicycle without the protection of a metal cage around me and there are 2000+ lb vehicles speeding at me, I am hyper aware of road/traffic conditions. I don't see how taking the lane makes you more attentive. You're still on the road, regardless, unless you are riding on the sidewalk.VC-istas tend to confuse ideology and fact. Everybody else sees the problem with that.

i take the lane because i can when it maximizes my sight lines and doesn't have me obstructing traffic. like, middle of the lane or near the inside edge of a two lane, even inside lane on a four lane if traffic is truly light.

i think it sends the correct message to other road users that bikes are traffic.


if you have to take the lane for your safety do so, otherwise ride safe but be considerate of fellow road users and share the road when practicable.

Since you are 'taking the lane' on a 40-45mph road, you need to go faster than 11-12mph. Going that speed on a two-lane road with that speed limit, while 'taking the lane', is inviting you to become 'roadkill'.

This is advice from someone who has no clue what he is talking about. Here (http://chipsea.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-i-take-lane-position-i-do.html) you will find photographs of a two lane road I ride on every time I ride my bike, and it has a 55 MPH speed limit.

It is foolish to think it matters how fast you are going. What does matter is that you will be seen as clearly "being in the way" so that the motorist immediately understands that he must slow down behind you -to wait for a safe place to pass- or cross the center line. Motorists are incapable of noticing if you are going 5 MPH or 10 MPH.


Since you can only do what you are presently doing, just make sure the traffic sees' you.

First, you are traffic. Second, the point of riding large is so you will be seen by the drivers of other vehicles.

I went online to check my state's rules of the road for bikes and this is what it says:

Bicyclists should travel just to the right of faster moving traffic. However, certain hazards, such as rough surfaces, debris, drainage grates or a narrow traffic lane, may require bike riders to move toward the center of the lane.

Found here: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr_chap05.html#bicyclists

So, I read that to mean that unless there is a reason such as bad roads, etc., simply taking the lane to take the lane is illegal.

if there's no other traffic you're not obstructing anyone.

you're only required to ride only as far right as you feel safe in most states and sometimes not even then.

I ride pretty slow most of the time. i suspect a lot of us do here too at times, touring, hauling loads or utility bikes. I sometimes hold up traffic - but then its usually necessary.

it sounds like you are already doing what you should be doing by being a courteous and attentive road user, and ride with high viz gear, blinkies, and a rear view mirror.

I went online to check my state's rules of the road for bikes and this is what it says:

Bicyclists should travel just to the right of faster moving traffic. However, certain hazards, such as rough surfaces, debris, drainage grates or a narrow traffic lane, may require bike riders to move toward the center of the lane.

Found here: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr_chap05.html#bicyclists

So, I read that to mean that unless there is a reason such as bad roads, etc., simply taking the lane to take the lane is illegal.

The law also has provision for not staying far to the right in substandard width lanes, where it would not be safe to share the lane with motor vehicles. Plus, if there is no "faster moving traffic" it doesn't matter where you ride.

"I take the lane" by Johnny please wait to Pass

Mm-mm-mm-mm

I keep a close watch on the cars behind.
I keep my eyes wide open all the time.
I keep some space that I can call all mine.
Because it's sane,
I take the lane.

Mm-mm-mm-mm

When there is room I move on to the side
I wave to cars on almost every ride
Before I learned I almost even died!
Because it's sane,
I take the lane.

The law also has provision for not staying far to the right in substandard width lanes, where it would not be safe to share the lane with motor vehicles. Plus, if there is no "faster moving traffic" it doesn't matter where you ride.



But doesn't that mean that if I am on a decent road where I can ride to the right because the road is not beat to crap (ok, haha, this *is* Illinois :roflmao2: ), I'd have to move over to the right when that faster moving vehicle came up behind me?

For me, with my tank and my 55 psi fat tires, riding on a not so nice right side of the road at my pootling 12 mph is not a problem but I could see it being an issue for a 25+ mph, dainty roadie bike with their 100+ psi tires. But still, if the road was a one lane each way in great condition, that would mean the cyclist would have to move over out of the way of the car, since the car is travelling faster. So, taking the lane in that case is illegal, right? This makes a bicycle really technically *not* the same as a car here by Illinois law because slower cars don't *have* to move over on a one lane road the way bikes do (not that they can, anyway). Right? Right??? Bueller? :twitchy:

Oh, and does that moving to the right law also apply to slow motorcycles? If not, then it really does seem as if bicycles are not really considered the same as a motor vehicle, despite what cyclists want to think. :/

Oh, and does that moving to the right law also apply to slow motorcycles? If not, then it really does seem as if bicycles are not really considered the same as a motor vehicle, despite what cyclists want to think. :/

Slow motorcycles? What's that? Bicycles are the same as motorcycles in the fantasy land of slow motorcycles.

Baloney! It is still less than half the speed of the motorized traffic and 12mph or 20mph cyclists appear identical to an impatient or unskilled motorist.

Wrong, If you are already going 20MPH or faster, then you will already know to react faster. By going slower than that, you will not react as fast. Because you won't think you have to.

I am not saying that as being, an invariable proponent of speeding. But that, you will know that you have to react faster. By going slower, a person is action lessening their reaction time by thinking they don't have to react as fast as a cyclist going 20MPH

In the small town I live in, they have 15MPH speed limit. So I end up speeding. On the roads just outside of town, the speed on most of them is 30MPH, except for one road that almost borders the town and, the speed limit is 40MPH.

On the 30MPH roads, I can do 25MPH, 30MPH if I feel like it. On the 40MPH road, 30MPH keeps me safely ahead of the traffic.

The point is, not to fear what the impatient or, unskilled motorist will do by, being 'reactive'. But to ride with confidence, in the knowledge, that there are both skilled and, unskilled drivers on the road.

I'm sorry that you were hit, that sucks, and I can see why your attitude is the way it is towards taking the lane. I feel the opposite, really, that by being in the middle of the road I am asking to get hit by a car.

Thankyou, I would agree with that, on the busier roads. But the accident happened in the middle of a small town, where the speed limit was 30MPH.

Wrong, If you are already going 20MPH or faster, then you will already know to react faster. By going slower than that, you will not react as fast. Because you won't think you have to.

Huh? Dude, step away from the bong! :lol:

Just as you say, 'taking the lane' to make a point, just says cyclists can be jerks. Drivers don't need help, when they profess to being idiots, by their bad driving.

It is riders like you(darn you are lucky), that can ride on the shoulder and, not feel like you are about to become 'roadkill'. I congratulate you.

For me, riding the shoulder, ever since May 14, 2008 (I was hit by a driver who claimed they didn't see me. When I had been in front of them moments before) has felt like tempting suicide.

I feel safer, 'taking the lane' than, riding on the shoulder.

With a nice clean wide shoulder, why not?

Motorists are going to see you or not see you, it really doesn't matter where you are, they are either paying attention or not.

bout half the time from my experience. Ever notice that anytime a driver drifts or moves left for some reason (passing, inattentive, fiddling with something, yapping on the phone) they tend to overcompensate back to the right and drift over the fog line? As a competent driver, I have often marveled at the inability of many to keep that thing between the lines. :lol:

And if they are inattentive, for whatever reason, drivers have been known to hit well lit police cars, stationary trash trucks... and yes, cyclists in bike lanes and on road shoulders.

Your road position is no magic potion.

Take the lane when you need to, for your better visibility, to get around obstacles; but don't assume that taking the lane makes you any more visible to distracted motorists, nor more appreciated by any other traffic.

And if they are inattentive, for whatever reason, drivers have been known to hit well lit police cars, stationary trash trucks... and yes, cyclists in bike lanes and on road shoulders.

Your road position is no magic potion.

Take the lane when you need to, for your better visibility, to get around obstacles; but don't assume that taking the lane makes you any more visible to distracted motorists, nor more appreciated by any other traffic.

Yes, you are just as likely to get hit by some distracted driver on the shoulder as you are in the lane...so what's your point again, Gene? ;)