Tandem Cycling - Drafting--how can stoker see wheel clearance?

My wife and I have been tandeming together for a couple years now. She's the stoker. We've been riding with the local bike club for a few months now and have run into an issue. We ride a paceline and when we're drafting, she can't see the wheel in front of us, only I can. Without knowing how far we are from it, she can't adjust her effort. So I end up doing the hard pushing and backing off, but it irritates her because she can feel my changing effort but can't respond intelligently herself. The other thing that irritates her about it (and me too) is that our work loads diverge over time. For example, if we fall behind the bike in front, I will push harder to catch up, while she is relaxing. When she sees the bike in front (which she may do from time to time if I drift a little to the left or right of the wheel centerline, which I may do if we catch up too quickly and I drift out of the draft momentarily to slow down without lapping wheels), she'll back off when she sees we are close and I stop or drastically reduce pedaling. Over time, she's backing off more and more and I'm accelerating more and more, and after awhile, we are working at two very different output levels. When things get extreme, we "recalibrate" and I ask her to work harder or she asks me to relax so she can get some exercise.

What do you experienced tandem teams do? I would like to have a mirror or something so she can see the wheel in front of us, but I don't know what kind of mirror or how to mount it in a way that would let you see the bike in front and wheel clearance from a stoker's position. Anybody done that successfully? Other working solutions? Infrared collision sensors?!

Appreciate any tips you can offer in this area.

For us it's just like dancing; I lead, Debbie follows and the subtle changes required in power are communicated through the pedals. In other words, if the bikes ahead begin to slow I simply reduce cadence -- soft pedaling in some cases. Debbie will sense the change in cadence and follows suit. Same thing for managing a developing gap: I'll simply up the cadence and Debbie will follow suit.

If we're drafting tandems the changes aren't all that dramatic except when there are hills and the slinky effect kicks in. However, if you're drafting single bikes then the entire process of managing your speed demands a lot more of your attention and, frankly, sometimes it's just easier to get out front and pull. Tandems and single bikes just don't mix well in some cases and less skilled the single bikes are at maintaining tempo the more trouble you'll have on the tandem. For me, it just gets to a point where there's just too much effort required and, as I said, we'll either leave a bigger cushion between the bike ahead to give us more reaction time or simply opt out of the pack by jumping on the front and staying there, riding in parallel, or riding rear wheel.

Now, we know other teams who verbally communicate these changes, one even goes so far as to call out: plus-one, minus one, plus two, minus two, etc... I find it annoying but it works for them.

For us it's just like dancing; I lead, Debbie follows and the subtle changes required in power are communicated through the pedals.

+1. It just takes some practice to get used to it.

I agree with the others about having my stoker feel the effort through the pedals while in a pace line. Most times this works. TG mentioned it can be difficult when single bikes are involved, especially some riders.

While in the pace line, if I find we are having problems with the riders in front of us speeding and slowing, and pedal feel is not enough communication I use simple head movements. My stoker knows that when we ride close there is a bit more attention, so she brings up her attention level also. If I shake my head to indicate no (side to side) this means back off just a bit, if I nod yes, this means pick it up a touch. These are visual marks for her, with no verbal miscues or things for others to hear. If we really need to pick it up, like maybe a sprint, I'll use a hand signal twirling a finger like "start your engines" down by my right leg.

As for the effort levels converging and diverging, this too has been a problem for us. I tried to get a setup for both heart rate monitors to be visible to me. Unfortunately, non would read consistently on the captains bars. So now we each wear a monitor, captains is bar mounted while stokers is wrist mounted. To keep efforts similar, I simply ask her heart rate, compare it to mine, and let her know to pick it, back off, or maintain. The stokers HRM alarm is also set a quite bit below her desired max. If the efforts are increasing, I try and listen for the alarm and adjust off of it.

The MTB tandem is a bit different, some days I have a great stoker, other times, a great passenger, just depends on the trail location and if there are lots of things to see.

As Merlin said, it takes practice. We're still rookies and learning.

PK

It's a tandem... why are you drafting..? :D

This was easily one of the hardest things to resolve when we started tandems in 2006. While my wife is very good at sensing changes, I found that my normal draft style was too subtle for her to pick up (I have 30+ years of drafting experience). This made drafting more difficult than most other aspects. We finally resolved that she should soft pedal in drafting situations, and I would take responsibility for the draft. This works most of the time, and when it doesn't, it is always when we need more power, and then I give it a more solid kick that she cannot miss.

Generally speaking, this approach is "harder" than drafting on a single, but I just consider it training.

My wife and I have just bought a tandem and newly returned to bicycling. We're not terribly experienced cyclists (a 20 year hiatus will do that), but we have been in a few pacelines with singles. The daVinci represents an interesting challenge in that we're not rigidly connected by a timing chain; it's going to take some time to work things out. Also, it became quickly apparent that the dynamics of a single are very different and I found myself braking while my wife was still hard pedaling. At one point doing about 21 mph or so (fast for old folks) I pulled out of the paceline and hardly noticed a difference: go figure. That said, it sure is fun.

Comunication through the pedals/cadence works fine if:

You are well matched with most of the riders in the pace line.
No one is intetionally/unintentionally speeding and slowing every ten seconds.

Then it is a pice of cake. If not...

This is what we do:

If there is one or more tandems in the group, form a sub group within the group and stay togheter.
If there is only singles in the group then find out who has the most constant speed. It is usually the best/most experinced rider and grab his/hers wheel.
Never draft behind a recumbent, it is almost worthless.
When everything else fails or when we are geting ready for an all out sprint, we do use verbal clues in spanish. Usually uno, dos, o tres which refers to the effort level.

If you find yourself with a fast group, one that will drop you if you do not catch the draft in a couple seconds, the verbal cues are critical to your success.

You are doing what we are more or less now. If I really need more out of my stoker, I reach back to her handlebars and lightly tap her hand. But in general, for the subtle adjustments in the paceline, we need something more useful. I hear you on the point about being easier to pull up front sometimes! But we aren't strong enough to do it all the time, and yes, we are the only tandem in a bunch of singles. To make it worse, our club ride is a mix of regular single bikes and recumbants, so response times vary, and gaps open/close to some extent quite a bit. It is quite a lot of effort to try to maintain a gap!

I would still like to hear if anyone has adapted some kind of mirror or other device to enable the stoker to "mind the gap" themselves. That is what my wife really wants.

Put a camera on the bars and a video screen on your back. ;)If she get's bored you can pop a dvd in for her too.:thumb:

Put a camera on the bars and a video screen on your back. ;)If she get's bored you can pop a dvd in for her too.:thumb:

Technology is in the pipeline. Just have to reverse the setup.

http://www.cerevellum.com/

Put a camera on the bars and a video screen on your back. ;)If she get's bored you can pop a dvd in for her too.:thumb:

I mounted a small sports type camera on the left rear brake stud for one of our training rides. The recording camera was in our trunk bag on the rack. Stoker had the button control for controlling the camera.

I was doing this kind of as a gift for our Team in Training partners to have, see and show to others. Kind of a way to let non cyclist see up close paceline stuff with their friends involved. Initially no one knew and we wanted candid action. Later in the ride some folks were posing a little. Ultimately everyone knew.

After watching the playback at home, it was an eyeopener to see the view out the back.

Even though I'm making the decisions out front, the video gave me an idea of when to be concerned about the back end of the bike.

Like when I don't know all that's happening out back, I think we're fine with filtered info for the stoker knowing about the front.

PK

Technology is in the pipeline. Just have to reverse the setup.

http://www.cerevellum.com/

That's a great idea. Have to wait and see how well it's built. Hopefully there will be some sort of anti-shake to handle the road vibrations. I don't mind investing in one. I feel guilty at times when I think of the view my wife has.

Now, we know other teams who verbally communicate these changes, one even goes so far as to call out: plus-one, minus one, plus two, minus two, etc... I find it annoying but it works for them.

+1 on communicating thru the pedals, but Maggi and I also use verbal commands when necessary. But since we use a headset, our commands can be whispered. We can even gossip about riders right beside us without them hearing! :D

Technology is in the pipeline. Just have to reverse the setup.

http://www.cerevellum.com/
Yeah I've been following his post on the VN forum for a couple years and hope it really gets built this time. I will have to see it in person first but if it looks good I want one for the back of the tandem.
Maybe 2 cameras so I can see traffic and my stokers face to see if she REALLY IS pedaling.:lol:

Riding in groups is a big "it depends" for us. In general, we do not ride the tandem on group rides and prefer singles. This is especially true for fast rides with climbing and numerous accelerations. For slower group rides that are deemed a tandem ride, we will do them. We like solo rides or rides with another tandem of similar ability.

I have found that "feed forward" versus "feed back" works really well with group dynamics and covering accelerations and terrain changes. I bias the stoker's power to be above mine when going into a climb or at the first sign of an acceleration - I do not wait for the tandem to slow down or gap the wheel hoping the stoker will sense this and add more power. I simple say, more power, a little more power, or give me all you have for accelerations and advise her of upcoming climbs and she will start adding more power. I then modulate my power to balance out what is required to hold a wheel. In reality, if I do a good job of feed forward calls for energy, it balances out to 50/50 energy production for the day. I find if I rely on any kind of feed back (bike slowing, cadence dropping, sensing my power or etc), I will have to cover all the incremental energy to hold the wheel until the stoker senses the need for more power.

I just don't find pacelining with singles to be worth it. Too much of an accordian effect. Can't enjoy the ride because I have to focus so hard. It's particularly bad in the hills, since we get going fast on the downhill and pass them all, but then they have to pass us on the uphills.

Thanks for all the great posts! Hope to hear some more ideas out there too. thebulls, we are in the flat part of Texas, so much less of the accordian effect you have in the hills. But we still do a fair amount of "yoyoing" as the pack continually adjusts. Hermes, the situation you describe is what we deal with; if I rely on the non verbal feedback, I end up covering all the incremental energy and that is what ultimately leads to the big spread in our level of effort (as showing on our respective heart monitors).

The cerevellum is really intriguing! Never heard of it before. I hope they use an LCD that can be read in bright sunlight! It does sound like it should in principle be workable in the reverse direction.

This makes me think, I wonder if you could do something simply with an optical fiber running from the front to the stoker's position where it would be magnified? hmmm...

On related topic, I wonder if any of you have ever monitored your partner's heart rate? LOL It would be interesting if you could switch your monitor easily between 2 different transmitters, or better, track/record 2 different transmitters on one monitor/computer. We ask each other our heart rates all the time just because we both like to work and don't want the other doing all of it while we coast (that's when we're riding in a pack; obviously, the rest of the time we don't mind if our partner works as hard as he/she wants!).

We have no need for use of cameras or more gizmos.
Been riding tandem long enough that we communicate either through the pedals or verbally.
We do not use HRMs . . . if our hearts are beatin, we're fine with that.

I would still like to hear if anyone has adapted some kind of mirror or other device to enable the stoker to "mind the gap" themselves. That is what my wife really wants.



OK, all kidding aside, are you really sure you want her to mind the gap? Maybe if she can captain just let her drive. See, that way, I'm guessing you could both mind the gap... :) Our experience with group rides parallels TG's; tandems really only want to draft other stable-speed objects, and squirrels need not apply. I'd much rather ride by ourselves than yo-yo all day long.

We solved this issue by adding a rear view mirror to her handle bar. She watches the rear and I look forward. I never look back and she doesn't look forward. To prevent any problems we talk a lot, mostly 1 word statements and we seem to ride fine. She trust me and I depend on her... knock on wood we have been riding just fine.