Advocacy & Safety - just got a ticket for "impeding traffic" who do I call?

You guys know any organizations to call off hand? should I call anyone? I am from southern california. on the LA county area. Next to Pasadena.

backstory: Driving on a 4 lane road with a middle lane for turning
4:20 pm
driving on the right tire track.
got stopped by (you guessed it) the sheriff department. Apparenty someone called 911 and complained that there was 2 bicycles on the "traffic lane".
Got a ticket for "impeding the flow of traffic". There was no cars around us even.
Told me that I cant ride on the road. that I was a danger and hazzard. Then they changed their story and told me to ride in the gutter (yesin the gutter) "as far to the right as possible". Not practical. possible. I asked if they were sure about that and they got pissed.


guys tried REAL hard to get me on something. They became VERY upset that this was all they could suggest charging me and my friend with.

funny enough when I was in one of the three squad cars that showed up I saw a guy towing a homemade3 trailer on his bicycle driving on the sidewalk against traffic. I said "what about that guy?" and they told me "nobodys complained about him yet". Lolers.

alright guys thats my story for today. Anyone have any suggestions or questions?

when I was in one of the three squad cars that showed upThey put you in a squad car for a traffic citation?

Go to court and fight it. It's a bogus ticket and you should have no problem getting it thrown out.

They put you in a squad car for a traffic citation?

they put me in two squad cars to be exact. dont know why?

Google Gary Brustin and go from there.

http://www.bicyclelawyer.com/

Here's the laws, sounds like if you bring this info in, along with pictures of where you were riding (road condition, measured lane width, the section he said you should ride in, etc..) you should be let off.

http://www.vcbike.org/bikelaw/bikelaw.htm#_A._Roads_Without
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a4.htm
http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm
http://www.sacbike.org/sacbiking/CVCLaws.htm

If you're in the right hand tire mark, you're fine. Infact, if you're on a multi-lane road and the right hand lane is fairly narrow or has large grates you can take the lane.

Even on roads with one lane going each direction you can take the lane if the road is to narrow for you and a car with two feet of clearance between you, the car, and you and the curb.

There's lots of these tickets handed out by cops who don't know the rules themselves.

I'd def recommend printing several copies of cali state law and carrying them, if you could show proof you're following the written law next time he'd probably let you go, depending on how you present the info.

I asked if they were sure about that and they got pissed.


guys tried REAL hard to get me on something. They became VERY upset that this was all they could suggest charging me and my friend with.

alright guys thats my story for today. Anyone have any suggestions or questions?


Ya sure you are telling the whole story?

call yer momma

sounds like u need her

LAWLz

Here's the laws, sounds like if you bring this info in, along with pictures of where you were riding (road condition, measured lane width, the section he said you should ride in, etc..) you should be let off.

http://www.vcbike.org/bikelaw/bikelaw.htm#_A._Roads_Without
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a4.htm
http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm
http://www.sacbike.org/sacbiking/CVCLaws.htm

If you're in the right hand tire mark, you're fine. Infact, if you're on a multi-lane road and the right hand lane is fairly narrow or has large grates you can take the lane.

Even on roads with one lane going each direction you can take the lane if the road is to narrow for you and a car with two feet of clearance between you, the car, and you and the curb.

There's lots of these tickets handed out by cops who don't know the rules themselves.

I'd def recommend printing several copies of cali state law and carrying them, if you could show proof you're following the written law next time he'd probably let you go, depending on how you present the info.In California, you can take the full lane, in any lane, as long as you're riding at the normal speed of traffic (i.e., the speed of traffic in the same direction, at that time and place). The requirement to ride to the right is only applicable if you're not riding at the normal speed of traffic. In that case, if you are required to ride to the right, practicability and the exceptions to the rule become applicable.

If the OP and friend were the only vehicles on the road, they weren't breaking any laws, period. If they weren;t the only vehicles on the road, then the legality of where they were riding would be subject to the rule (and exceptions) to ride as far right as practicable.

From the sound of it, the deputies have no business enforcing the law, because they don't understand the law.

Then again, they're probably the type who would argue about how much experience they've got.

Ya sure you are telling the whole story?

No I am not because its super long, and because I want o wait to see what I am told to do before I go on the forum and wrire it up. I was stopped for like 2 hours. The eggs I was bringing from the store got all warm :(

If you are asking why they got mad I think its because I told them "I dont consent to any searches of any kind". They then asked me if I wanted to be a dick. I said no, but I didnt want them to make a mess. They still searched and ripped up all my bags for some reason. :D They kept asking me about my car. Dont know why. I wasnt even on it.

They tried to get me for reflectors too, but I had those. Oh I dont know....They wanted all kinds of information I just stoped talking to them exept to identify myself. Things they wanted to know like "why haven't I seen you around here?" (I dont know been living here for two decades). How do I answer that?

So once I stopped talking they tell me "I have seen many people talk themselves out of a ticket and into jail!" ????? Thanks for telling me that now I am really NOT going to talk you.

Oddly enough there is no fine written on the ticket like when you get, when you are in a car. just says to show up. ????

call yer momma

sounds like u need her

LAWLz

I loled! I guess I derved that.

They then asked me if I wanted to be a dick.Maybe they were recruiting candidates for the department. :)

one thing I do is carry a copy of my bicycle laws with me all the time. So I can show the cop the law about riding as far right as practical and also how cars need to pass me the with at least 3 feet of clearance.

Try asking on midnightridazz.com as well. I forget what they say to do, but the guys there will tell you how to extend the trial date and get a trial by declaration and what you need to do (sry I don't remember what their method is). It seems to work, many of them have used it and fought off BS tickets.

I tried to find a thread with the solution but I couldn't find one.

I don't think this guy is telling the whole story.

Why don't you tell us what you were hiding in your handlebar stem.....

I would find out who the prosecuting attorney is that handles traffic violations. Assuming you haven't left out any important details, I bet a simple letter or phone call to him/her would get it dropped. I have been successful more than once with this approach and had tickets dropped.

Incase anyone asks we wrote down everything as soon we got home. I have the the whole thing written down. I have a bunch of great quotes. Seems like the less you talk the more THEY talk. It was very confusing too, because they would become VERY very friendly, and then VERY very angry. Six deputies!! holy cow.

I guess I just show up and see what happens, I'll keep you guys posted.

Sounds like a good use of Deputy Dawg resources....

I don't think this guy is telling the whole story.

Why don't you tell us what you were hiding in your handlebar stem.....

Nothing man really. I was just getting grocerries for my house. My friend (well technically brother) lives in the same house, we were just bringing food for the week. I have anperfectly clean record nothing of any kind. I have only ever had ONE traffic ticket and that got thrown out. I dont do drugs, I dont drink, i dont even smoke. I am super clean. Why do you think they didn't make anything up either?

Seriously when I told them i did not consent to any searches thats what instigated the whole thing, and the little threats started flying. "Next time do what you are told!" was their parting advice.

Ok???? I did EVERYTHING I was told. They ASKED if they could search I said no. I needed to get home(THE EGGS WERE GETTING WARM!). I hardly even talked. The whole thing supposedly was over someone calling that there were two bicycles on the "traffic lane". he asked me "whats up with that?". how do you answer that? I said "it is what it is??...I dont know?".

I knew bike forums would give the benefit of the doubt.

NOT :D :D

"Next time do what you are told!" was their parting advice.Translation: "Next time, waive your 4th amendment rights."

hooray for ignorant cops. I hope you win and the cop is there to face the fact that he was wrong.

Ok???? I did EVERYTHING I was told. They ASKED if they could search I said no. I needed to get home(THE EGGS WERE GETTING WARM!).

this part I don't understand. It would just take a few minutes to search through your groceries? Plus why are you concerned about eggs getting warm? I know in many Third World countries shopkeepers leave their eggs in the open air for days.

Thats we spozed to do here, how the heck you spozed to hang a lewie?

this part I don't understand. It would just take a few minutes to search through your groceries? I'm not sure understand what you're saying here-- are you suggesting that he should have consented to a search?

I'm not sure understand what you're saying here-- are you suggesting that he should have consented to a search?

Why not?

Why not?Because we're not a police state... yet.

Originally Posted by Blue Order
I'm not sure understand what you're saying here-- are you suggesting that he should have consented to a search?


Why not?

I agree with not just rolling over for the cops, but I also see merit in just letting them do it so that they are happy - it's not like they were going to find anything.

How about this: "Officer, I normally would not consent to a search, but since I've got nothing to hide I will waive my rights just so that you don't get all upset and so that I can get on my way quicker."

I agree with not just rolling over for the cops, but I also see merit in just letting them do it so that they are happy - it's not like they were going to find anything.

How about this: "Officer, I normally would not consent to a search, but since I've got nothing to hide I will waive my rights just so that you don't get all upset and so that I can get on my way quicker."I hear what you're saying about it being easier to just consent and then go on your way. Who wants to be detained long by the cops as a form of coercion to get your consent?

But the problem with saying "since I've got nothing to hide" is it reinforces the notion that people who have nothing to hide consent to unwarranted police searches, and people who have something to hide do not consent. So if most people consent to warrantless (and unwarranted) police searches, and only (smart) criminals do not consent, do we live in a free society, or do we live in a de facto police state?

Is the happiness of some cop worth the loss of the last vestiges of our personal liberty?

I don't know if it's totally applicable in CA (check with a lawyer familiar with bicycle law if this looks like it'll get ugly), but make sure you read about this case, it's considered relevant in most of these cases.

http://www.cincinnaticycleclub.org/education/law/trotwoodvselz/

I'm pretty sure this won't go anywhere, but be careful anyway.

How about this: "Officer, I normally would not consent to a search, but since I've got nothing to hide I will waive my rights just so that you don't get all upset and so that I can get on my way quicker."
That just encourages the officer to try the same intimidation techniques on the next guy. Constitutional protections aren't of much value if not used, so I appreciate the OP not consenting to a search.

this part I don't understand. It would just take a few minutes to search through your groceries? Plus why are you concerned about eggs getting warm? I know in many Third World countries shopkeepers leave their eggs in the open air for days.

Really? I guess so because they dont have refrigerators? They last less though no? I didn't think about that.

About refusing to be searched. That has been covered here on the forum a lot. I felt the exact same way you do. I thought somebody must be stupid to refuse a search. But then I read the opposing debate on this forum and went to look for myself. I went online to read and watched some videos. But that was kinda confusing and not very clear at all. So I talked to attorneys and talked with police (not sheriffs), and talked with one judge. In the end it was a RUDE awakening. I made up my mind to never allow them to search me again. None of those people I talked to would ever allow a search. Not one.

You have NOTHING to gain and a lot to loose, by letting them search you. Even if you have "nothing to hide". They know the laws and how to work them a million times better than me so why give them the chance? Why allow them to ruin my life because I dont want to be contrary? This didnt even ruin my whole day. It wasn't that bad. They seemed to more pissed than me.

I'd do it again, but thats just me. You want to be searched, then thats cool too. Thats why its pretty awsome here.

Nothing man really. I was just getting grocerries for my house. My friend (well technically brother) lives in the same house, we were just bringing food for the week. I have anperfectly clean record nothing of any kind. I have only ever had ONE traffic ticket and that got thrown out. I dont do drugs, I dont drink, i dont even smoke. I am super clean. Why do you think they didn't make anything up either?

Seriously when I told them i did not consent to any searches thats what instigated the whole thing, and the little threats started flying. "Next time do what you are told!" was their parting advice.

Ok???? I did EVERYTHING I was told. They ASKED if they could search I said no. I needed to get home(THE EGGS WERE GETTING WARM!). I hardly even talked. The whole thing supposedly was over someone calling that there were two bicycles on the "traffic lane". he asked me "whats up with that?". how do you answer that? I said "it is what it is??...I dont know?".

I knew bike forums would give the benefit of the doubt.

NOT :D :D
Did they ask to search you before you told them you don't consent, or did you offer this up before they asked?

So I talked to attorneys and talked with police (not sheriffs), and talked with one judge. In the end it was a RUDE awakening. I made up my mind to never allow them to search me again. None of those people I talked to would ever allow a search. Not one.Can you elaborate?

That just encourages the officer to try the same intimidation techniques on the next guy. Constitutional protections aren't of much value if not used, so I appreciate the OP not consenting to a search.

+1 on this. Since 9/11 it seems that the police state has gotten more extreme. Certainly the trashing of civil liberties has allowed this action. From my view, the profession of law enforcement has lost a great deal of integrity. I don't think they shoudl be allowed to get away w/ this and standing up (non violently) is one way to try to "win" back our rights.

+1 on this. Since 9/11 it seems that the police state has gotten more extreme. Certainly the trashing of civil liberties has allowed this action. From my view, the profession of law enforcement has lost a great deal of integrity. I don't think they shoudl be allowed to get away w/ this and standing up (non violently) is one way to try to "win" back our rights.

I do agree, but sometimes the practicalities just make it easier to take the "path of least resistance" just to get on your way.

I guess you have to make the decision based on the situation. How aggressive is the cop being? Will you get a ride to the police station (or a ride on a taser) for fighting for your rights? Is the guy just calling your bluff? Every situation is different.

In my past I have told plenty of cops that they were dreaming and that the answer was "no". However, Australian cops are very different to the US - you can laugh at an Aussie cop and say "seriously sunshine, I'm too old to fall for that one". I like to call the bluff sometimes and have even suggested to one really annoying cop that I would cause him more paperwork in complaints proceedures than the situation was worth - his choice.

Airport security is one area where you do what The Man says. We all know that 95% of what we have to do in airports is BS ('theatre') but we have to play along with out complaint - even if you are within your rights, the couple of hours in the back room while they 'confirm your story' or 'check your record' before letting you go with a smile is enough to make you miss your connecting flight etc.

Question the cop? Yes.
Make him justify himself? Yes.
Make a political stand that costs you at the time, even if you are technically right? Not always.

Quite possible the cops thought they were going to get a drug bust out of the stop. They made the stop, did the search, did not find any drugs and then realized the stop was improper.

That is when they needed something to cite you with, just to cover their asses.

I always suspected that you were a commie, drug-running terrorist...bout time the law caught up to you, dirt bag. :D

Seriously, I don't know all the circumstances, but from what you have said, a decent lawyer will put this to bed fairly easily...but unfortunately not so easy on your wallet, this is America, where we have the best legal system money can buy. No money, no honey.

Ya gotta watch out for sheriff's deputies...in way too many cases they are idiots appointed via political patronage. It looks like these bozos didn't know the law very well and were pretty much trying to intimidate you into doing something they could get their little pea brains around that might stick.

In discovery, your lawyer should be able to find out who made the call that got you busted...betcha it was some connected mucky-muck...otherwise I doubt there would have been any response at all.

If you have any contacts on the job or in the DA's office, you might be able to get this thing taken care of without ever going to trial. There is a time in place to use your contacts, this may be one of them.

Good luck, Dillinger! ;)

They put you in a squad car for a traffic citation?

That is not at all uncommon. He was not under arrest and was probably in the front passanger seat. In Iowa when a state trooper pulls you over for speeding they put you in the squad car when they write the ticket and to show you the recorded speed they clocked you at. I think this may be more for safety reasons then anything else. Iowa State Troppers also approach your car on the passenger side as well, again I think for safety reasons.

Quite possible the cops thought they were going to get a drug bust out of the stop. They made the stop, did the search, did not find any drugs and then realized the stop was improper.

That is when they needed something to cite you with, just to cover their asses.

While this is probably true, they do not have to cite you when they stop you. They can simply let you go on your way.

EatMyA**, this thread has some good discussion and analysis that may be directly relevant to your situation:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=503873

Also, in post 87 of that thread, there is a link to joejack's thread about a similar situation that he experienced in Delaware. While the Delaware situation is not directly relevant because the law is different, there is some useful information regarding how to contest a ticket.

That is not at all uncommon. He was not under arrest and was probably in the front passanger seat. In Iowa when a state trooper pulls you over for speeding they put you in the squad car when they write the ticket and to show you the recorded speed they clocked you at. I think this may be more for safety reasons then anything else. Iowa State Troppers also approach your car on the passenger side as well, again I think for safety reasons.

If the police put you in their car, and you don't feel free to leave, it may very well be an "arrest." Not all arrests are accompanied by searches, handcuffs and Miranda warnings. Some are just "sit there and shut up!"

I do agree with never consenting to a search, though. Never make an officer's life easier. BTW, I am a lawyer, but not in CA or IA.

I knew bike forums would give the benefit of the doubt.

NOT :D :DI never give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who names himself "EatMyA**".

Is that the name you gave the police?

This is important: Your legal defense strategy should address the specific charge - impeding traffic - and not how far right you should or should not operate, unless you were also charged for not riding far enough right. These are two separate issues.

An impeding traffic charge is bogus because nonmotorized vehicles and slow motorized vehicles are exempt from the law. Period. Slow vehicles like yours are allowed to use the roadways. Some states may require you to pull over where it is safe to do so if several cars back up behind you but that doesn't apply here.

If you haven't been charged with not operating far enough right, then don't bring it up. The truth is that there are plenty of roads where drivers must slow down no matter how far right the cyclist tries to operate. The issue at hand is whether an impeding traffic charge is legal at all.

If the prosecutor instead decides to change the charge to not operating far enough right, that will require a different legal strategy. Meanwhile just focus on the actual charge.

Why not?

Hold on, hold. I haven't made it to the second page yet, but I know the answer to this one...

Because he has the right not to? I think that's it.

Yessir search me whenever you want. :love::innocent::eek::twitchy::D:notamused:

I do agree with never consenting to a search, though. Never make an officer's life easier. BTW, I am a lawyer, but not in CA or IA.

WTF? Am I reading that right, or did I miss something?

While some LEO's character can be questionable, I still try to understand what it's like to be in their shoes. Whenever I'm pulled over (and that's happened only twice in the last 25 years) I'm going to do what it takes to let them know I am no threat to them. IE, have your keys on the dash in plain sight, turn your interior lights on, have your DL/INS ready, etc. Every stop (however benign it may appear) to them has the potential to be a life threatening situation. Treat a LEO with respect and you might get the same in return.

+1 on this. Since 9/11 it seems that the police state has gotten more extreme. Certainly the trashing of civil liberties has allowed this action. From my view, the profession of law enforcement has lost a great deal of integrity. I don't think they shoudl be allowed to get away w/ this and standing up (non violently) is one way to try to "win" back our rights.

You should see all the terrorist forums I frequent and how much our community gets hassled by the police.

Did I say terrorist? I'm sorry, I meant photographers... :notamused:

You guys know any organizations to call off hand? should I call anyone? I am from southern california. on the LA county area. Next to Pasadena.

backstory: Driving on a 4 lane road with a middle lane for turning
4:20 pm
driving on the right tire track.
got stopped by (you guessed it) the sheriff department. Apparenty someone called 911 and complained that there was 2 bicycles on the "traffic lane".
Got a ticket for "impeding the flow of traffic". There was no cars around us even.
Told me that I cant ride on the road. that I was a danger and hazzard. Then they changed their story and told me to ride in the gutter (yesin the gutter) "as far to the right as possible". Not practical. possible. I asked if they were sure about that and they got pissed.


guys tried REAL hard to get me on something. They became VERY upset that this was all they could suggest charging me and my friend with.

funny enough when I was in one of the three squad cars that showed up I saw a guy towing a homemade3 trailer on his bicycle driving on the sidewalk against traffic. I said "what about that guy?" and they told me "nobodys complained about him yet". Lolers.

alright guys thats my story for today. Anyone have any suggestions or questions?

In answer to your questions here is what I would do;
1. Digitally scan the citation.
2. Look up the traffic code for this particular circumstance, violation, etc. You need to find out what your allowed to do under the law. Especially if you think the cops were in the wrong. Make sure you're clear on this. You do not want to challenge this with out being armed with all the facts.
3. Once you have all the info. you need post about it on a blog. Get the word out on the internet about this injustice toward yourself and cyclists in general. Plaster it on every internet site you can think of. Facebook, blogger, MySpace, forums like this one, etc. Get the word out.
4. Depending on what your options and rights are to challenge this you may need an attorney. If you think you can and are allowed to fight this in court on your own do so. But go in armed with a copy of the law that says what you're allowed to do while riding on the roadways. Otherwise get the help of an attorney if you can afford one. There may even be free or discounted attorney services in your area that can help you.
5. contact your local and state bicycle advocacy organizations. Also contact the LAB about this.
6. Fight it, legally and through proper channels until you win.

If the police put you in their car, and you don't feel free to leave, it may very well be an "arrest." Not all arrests are accompanied by searches, handcuffs and Miranda warnings. Some are just "sit there and shut up!"

I do agree with never consenting to a search, though. Never make an officer's life easier. BTW, I am a lawyer, but not in CA or IA.

Ok, but if you do not consent to a search can't they still arrest you for suspicion of something? Sure it's your right to not consent to a search, but if you say no they can very well make your life harder as well. BTW the few times I have been pulled over for speeding on Iowa's interstates and was asked to accompony the officer to his car and sit in the fron passenger seat I asked if I was under arrest and was always told no.

Are you a defense attorney? What type of law do you practice?

Some, or most in my personal experience, police officers are more interested in public service than pursuit of confrontation.

It is possible to convert police officers to the point of view that they should serve and protect bicyclists' safe and legal use of the public roadways. However, this requires a less adversarial approach - one that keeps the disagreement friendly and allows the police officer to change his thinking without losing face. Showing respect for the police officer's motivations to uphold public safety needs to be part of the strategy. Frame the debate in terms of how the officer might best accomplish his or her goals.

He could've had scrambled eggs.

Let me try and make something more clear. When you operate any vehicle, bike, car or a 1965 Murray tricycle on public roadways you are subject to search or anything else required by those who operate with a LICENSE. Even if you ride a bike you are expected to follow the laws of the state you ride in. Using any manner of transportation while committing a crime leaves you open to search with a probable cause. Refusing a search is exactly what got you in this mess and cooperating would've had you home and making egg salad in a heartbeat. It isn't what you DID, it's what you REFUSED to do.

When you refuse to consent the officer(s) must then assume that there is a probable cause to search. This is not a warrant situation and if you are certain you have no reason to face trouble in the first place then why are you giving them flak? The city/county/state agents serve the interest of the community and the community expects laws for public safety to be enforced for the good of all. I can dig if somebody really was being a jerk and called the cops to harass you, possibly but get this straight.

Cops respond to reports of disorder. They are not prosecutors nor judges. You have to deal with a court now and not to prove the cops acted badly but that the charges are not valid and that the behavior of the cops had something to do with it. You refused a search that was likely reasonable and even if it WASN'T it wasn't refusable and you have to prove it wasn't reasonable in court...

To close, refusing a search is wrong. You CAN refuse but you forfeit rights you would've had otherwise. You would've been home if you hadn't tried to play lawyer with cops. Cops don't do anything but assess a charge based on their knowledge of the law. What you are actually tried for can be different or dismissed when the prosecutor or judge look the charges over.

The law does not change for your special condition unless there is a law that does so. You must do what they say and those requests can be question in a court or with an ombudsman perhaps.

I'm not going to judge you either way but it's true that you burdened yourself needlessly if everything you state is true. There is good reason for others to feel suspicious from your admitted omissions, however.