Touring - campagnolo compatible hubs with 135mm axle?

Hi,
I'm looking for a way to set up a touring bike with campagnolo gearing but using a 135mm rear axle. I've discarded the idea of a cassette spacer kit as they seem to push the cogs too close to the spokes for comfort. Thus I seem to have the following options in order to get a 36 spoke wheel:

1) Campagnolo (centaur/chorus) hub with 135mm aftermarket axle and spacers.

2) DT swiss tandem hub with the 135mm axle and spacer kit and the campag freehub convertor - this will even let me do 40 spokes.

3) Tune Mig/Mag hubs with the campagnolo freehub. They may be light but they don't break (allegedly).

As far as cost goes it looks like 2 & 3 will cost about £200 which is twice as much as 1..... but 1 may not be as strong and strength is good.

The frame will be a custom built steel job (Dave Yates) if that makes a difference. I'm sure at least one of you must have had the same problem and found a much more elegant solution.

thanks!

Ewan

Hi......why must you use a Campy cassette? I'm assuming the reason is that you already own Campy components.

Why campy..... I like the company philosophy, they do excellent technical drawings and ergo levers are nicer than STI. There also seems to be much better support for older models but I could be making that up! Moving on to more dubious reasons, centaur gives probably the best value for money across the companies and I speak Italian a lot better than I do Japanese.

I should say that I'm only likely to be riding in europe so whilst parts may be scarcer than shimano, they are never going to be more than a day or two away. If decide to do expedition touring then I'll be getting a Rohloff hub ;-)

cheers

Why campy..... I like the company philosophy, they do excellent technical drawings and ergo levers are nicer than STI. cheers

I agree...... years ago I converted my Santana tandem to Ergo using Hugi hubs. The problem I encountered was that the hub was Shimano compatible. The solution I found was Sachs Ergo shifters were Shimano cassette compatible if used with a Sachs derailleur. Shifting was flawless.
I remember reading in the Mechanics section that the new 10 speed components are compatible to one another. I believe the Centaur is a 9 sp? If that is true, you may have to go up to the Chorus groupo.

I agree...... years ago I converted my Santana tandem to Ergo using Hugi hubs. The problem I encountered was that the hub was Shimano compatible. The solution I found was Sachs Ergo shifters were Shimano cassette compatible if used with a Sachs derailleur. Shifting was flawless.
I remember reading in the Mechanics section that the new 10 speed components are compatible to one another. I believe the Centaur is a 9 sp? If that is true, you may have to go up to the Chorus groupo.

Nope. Even Veloce is ten speed now.

I'm intending on going 10 speed, the amusing thing is that some people claim 9 speed interchangeability but not 10 between the companies and others are certain that vice versa is the only way! There would appear to be no general consensus on this issue, least of all by people who ride the parts in question. The joys of armchair mechanics!

The other reason I would be reluctant to do this is the sizes the Dura-Ace cassettes come in (12-27 is the biggest) whereas campy do a 14-29 which is suggested for 'up and coming champions' i.e. children. This is a much bettter range for touring. Of course there are Marchisio cassettes but they aren't reported to shift as well as the real thing so whilst campag with shimano spacing may work for dura-ace (which I presume is engineered for shift assisting) it may not for cassettes that cause less smooth shifting.

Visit http://www.hubbub.com There is a page about using Campagnolo ergo shifters (9 or 10 speeds) with a Shimano cassette.

In terms of touring cassettes, there is no need to use a Dura-Ace cassette. Select from the MTB cassettes and, if possible, select low-end cassette(s) so you could mix and match cogs from 2 cassettes. A great way to design your own drivetrain.

Here's a longshot...... try and locate a new old stock CAMPY OR hubset...8-speed, of course...

What about Hope hubs?
My tourer has Mirage 95 8spd on a 135 OLD frame. The wheels seem to hold up, but (heresy) I think Shimano XT are the hubs to have for touring.

Hi,
I'm looking for a way to set up a touring bike with campagnolo gearing but using a 135mm rear axle. I've discarded the idea of a cassette spacer kit as they seem to push the cogs too close to the spokes for comfort. Thus I seem to have the following options in order to get a 36 spoke wheel:

1) Campagnolo (centaur/chorus) hub with 135mm aftermarket axle and spacers.

2) DT swiss tandem hub with the 135mm axle and spacer kit and the campag freehub convertor - this will even let me do 40 spokes.

3) Tune Mig/Mag hubs with the campagnolo freehub. They may be light but they don't break (allegedly).

As far as cost goes it looks like 2 & 3 will cost about £200 which is twice as much as 1..... but 1 may not be as strong and strength is good.

The frame will be a custom built steel job (Dave Yates) if that makes a difference. I'm sure at least one of you must have had the same problem and found a much more elegant solution.

thanks!

Ewan

I've been trying to research pretty much the same issue as you.. I was figuring I'd settle on a Shimano MTB hub with Marchisio cogs. But I'm interested in the options you mentioned. However, I can't find specific info on the spacer kits you mentioned in 1) and 2), nor the Tune hubs.. Am I missing the kits on DT's site? Do you have a URL for info about the Tune hubs? Any manufacturer or QBP part numbers for the spacer kits?

For that matter, I didn't see anything on dtswiss.com about a Campy conversion kit for the tandem hub.. Are you sure it's possible?

Thanks.
Y.

Hi,
Glad to see somebody else is interested! First of all here are where you can find the products.

For tune see www.tune.de - they have a list of distributors.

The tune hubs, despite being very lightweight appear to be utterly bomproof - I have never heard of one break and this is in mtb/freeride use. Touring should be no problem for them.

For the DT convertor kit see

http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fuseaction=hubs.bikeaccessories&group=2

Now this kit says it works with the 240/Hugi hubs including the freeride - I would be very surprised if the tandem hubs have different internals as they are part of the hugi range as well. I'm planning on contacting DT soon (like maybe now) to ask them about this. DT sell a 135mm axle and the required spacers. The uk importers are madison and you can get at their catalogue via

http://www.ultimatepursuits.co.uk/page.asp?w=43&ref=7&ct=1&sidstep=1&vertical=1

(just choose a city when it asks you - it's a bit wierd) No direct url but the site is okay to search.

DT list distributors under the 'service contact' bit of their site.

From Germany you can get the tandem hub prebuilt for 135mm. Probably google for 'DT TD naben 135mm' or something similar. Tune stuff is slightly cheaper there as well.

I'm quite tempted by the campag cassette with longer axle and spacer option. This should be fine on the lower end veloce hub as this has a plain axle (you can get the diagrams from the campag spares catalogue) whereas the chorus seems to have a specially machined axle. Whilst this could be replicated easily enough with a (CNC) lathe it's not an option open to everyone! The plain 10mm (or maybe 12mm ??) axle should be available from any decent bike repair place and you can get 10/12mm axle spacers in pretty much any width. If you aren't too mechanically inclined it should be a cheap job to get a bike shop to do. The veloce hub is cheap and gets good reviews so it may be worth the experiment. This is what the best local repair place suggested to do and it also works out the cheapest...... You would also need a 135mm QR skewer but that's not too much.

The problem with the spacer kits is that the shimano inter cog spacing is less than for campag so the campag cassette assembly is wider hence issues getting it on a hub. There is a mention from peter white cycles that this means the largest cog is disturbingly close to the spokes.

One option that I didn't mention involves a bit of a hack.... you get a campag ten speed spacer kit and (machisio/shimano) cogs and put nine on a shimano freehub with a spacer to take up the extra few mm. You then adjust the 10spd campag derailleur so the limits are fine for the nine and then set the shifter so at one of the two extremes the extra click does nothing. Hence a nine speed 10 speed system or similar with no spacing issues. Ugly but it should work!

At the moment I'm heading towards tune despite the cost but will reconsider if the DT adapter will fit. I'll post back when I find out.

I like the idea of being able to use the campag cassettes as the centaur 13-29 is ideal for touring and I can easily swap it for something more sporty if the mood takes me.

Just wanted to bump this. Have you gotten in touch with DT to find out if they have a stock 135-mm hub that can take a Campy rotor? Seems like the FR or the TD with replacement axle are the way to go for touring on a DT hub, since the other Hugis only go up to 32 holes.. Although I'm not that interested in building a bike w/disc or drum brakes, which those hubs are equipped for. Anyway, let me know if you've gotten more details.

I think I'm gonna call Tune's US distributor tomorrow to see what prices/availability are like for their hubs. Sound intriguing, if expensive..

That's interesting news about the spacer kits putting the big cog close to the spoke. I hadn't heard that before..

As far as just using Campy hubs and replacing the axles to make 'em 135mm, I've heard it's a bad idea because Campy puts the bearings inboard of the cassette body, which makes the axle weaker. Not a good thing for a tourer. Although perhaps that's true of the other brands as well, since apparently Shimano has a patent for the bearing placement on its cassette hubs (that is, just inboard of the lockring)

Anyway. Keep me posted as to what you do.. It may be months before I have to make a final decision..

cheers,
y.

Hi,
I've tried to contact DT and left some messages but have had no response at all! I'll try the UK distributor (madison) tomorrow and see if they have any clue. Alas they are quite uncommon parts so it rather unlikely I can go to any of the bike shops here and check the stuff out in person. The FR hub is an option but is more expensive than the tune.

In europe it seems that the TD hub with axle and spacer kit and freehub conversion is just about the same price as the Tune hub. Both are expensive but one works out of the box and gets wonderfull reviews everywhere. DT hubs get somewhat mixed reviews along the lines of those that work work, and those that don't don't! A lot of this might be to do with the lighter weight oil DT specify for lubrication, normal grease just clogs everything up (allegedly).

From what I've read (no first hand experience!) the campy bearing placement is more of an academic issue - yes, the design is weaker but in reality this is not what will fail. I believe most other hub makers do copy the campag design due to shimano's patent, thus hubs from the likes of Hope, Chris King, Phil Wood, Mavic.... must also be 'flawed' compared to shimano. There are also some shimano freehub bodies (check out www.mtbreview.com/reviews ) that have a nasty habit of exploding as the metal is too thin. Decent spoke tension and truing are probably far more important factors as well. Shimano hubs do not get good reviews compared to others.

Perhaps we should be discussing this on the mechanics forum? ;-)

Have fun

Almost seems like we should be discussing this via e-mail, but I'll continue on the forum in case anyone's listening in, as it were..

Anyway, a new development: the U.S. distributor for Tune told me that I could get a Campy-splined White Industries hub w/135mm O.L.D. for less than the Tune hub. Of course, White Industries is U.S.-based, so their stuff might cost more than Tune's in the E.U., if it's even available..

From what said distributor said, it looks like Tune's a little more expensive than DT over here, although he gave me the Tune retail price and I've only seen wholesale prices for DT hubs..

Anyway, the guy was incredibly nice and had lots of input on unconventional gearing for touring bikes. So I think if I decide to go the high-end route, I'm gonna order Tune or White through him..

cheers. Y.