Touring - Expired Passport- Attempt Under the Radar Crossing into Canada?

I am leaving in less than a week from Missoula, Montana for a tour with a couple people. We were considering a ride to Banff.

As of June 1st, 2009 the new rule is that to cross the border by land you need to have an up to date passport, and mine expired in March.

My question is, should I

a) Think of a new route?

or

b) Keep route to Banff and try to "unofficially" the border somewhere/somehow.

I mean there is a lot of room up there and I'll be on a bike.

The other 2 people both have current passports.

Suggestions? Thanks a lot.

If you like body cavity searches, water boarding and Guantanamo Bay, by all means attempt to sneak across the border.

you might be able to get out, but getting back in could be problematic... i'd stay stateside, but then again i like my DNA to stay out of Federal databases...

:-)

Really, really, really bad idea! I know some customs and border officials and they don't find that kind of thing amusing....if you get caught you could be in deep s***.

I wouldn't try to sneak across the border. You'd have to do it twice, and if something happens you could get nailed. I'd either pick a different route or reschedule the trip. Plenty of other places to go.

FYI expedited passport service is around 2-3 weeks.

Check some of the expedited passport services-I got mine in a couple days back in 2002 when I had a short notice trip to the UK. Costs a premium, but it is better than the above mentioned full cavity search. I have traveled to and from Canada at least 50 times in the last couple years, and re-admittance to the U.S. is definitely more strict than it used to be.

A couple of years ago, I was riding around Lake Erie (with passport). On the US side, on a small road near the lake, I was passed by a border patrol agent who slowed to ask me how things were going and where I was headed. He was speaking through the rolled-down window of his SUV while driving along beside me at about 10 mph. It was normal chit-chat that I encounter lots of times while riding fully loaded. It wasn't an investigation or anything.

I asked him what he was doing so far away from a border and he reminded me that he is patrolling the US/Canadian border. My point is that there are patrols along the northern border. I'm sure you're unlikely to see one but I wouldn't take my chances.

We've had months of warning about the June 1st deadline. There have been radio announcements about the importance of renewing our passports for at least the past 6 months. And the border guards have been preparing for this.

I wouldn't take the chance for a bicycle ride. I don't think you'd end up with cavity searches or anything like that ... but I do think you'd end up with a hefty fine, and it would likely be a lot of years before you'd be allowed back in Canada again, and you'd have a note on your information that will follow you and create suspicion if you ever try to go to another country again.

Can you get an 'enhanced' driver's license? Some states have those to let people back into the US from Canada/Mexico (that's your main problem, that the US won't let you back, although maybe Canada wouldn't let you in if they don't think you'll be able to get out). If you can get one of those licenses, maybe can get it faster than a new passport.

My wife submitted an application for a new passport at the local post office on December 27th of last year. She had her new passport 10 days later and that included the New Year's holiday. There may still be time to get your passport renewed.

Decision made. No passport means I won't go to Canada. I'll try to send the renewal form ASAP.

Thanks for talking some sense into me. I have had a few run ins with johnny law and none of them would I categorize as a good time.

It just seemed like a cool trip.

Too bad there is no more open border. :(

Thanks for all the replies!

I am leaving in less than a week from Missoula, Montana for a tour with a couple people. We were considering a ride to Banff.

As of June 1st, 2009 the new rule is that to cross the border by land you need to have an up to date passport, and mine expired in March.

My question is, should I

a) Think of a new route?

or

b) Keep route to Banff and try to "unofficially" the border somewhere/somehow.

I mean there is a lot of room up there and I'll be on a bike.

The other 2 people both have current passports.

Suggestions? Thanks a lot.

Think of a new route. You could get yourself into quite a bit of trouble.

(edit) Oh, you already did.(/edit)

Speedo

I am leaving in less than a week from Missoula, Montana for a tour with a couple people.

Sounds like you already have a solution, but for what its worth, the expedited passport services are surprisingly fast. It has been a while, but when traveling to Scotland for a non-bicycle trip, I noticed less than a week before departure that I couldn't find my passport. Found a service on the web and went through all the steps and believe I was with a new passport within three days.

p.s. I agree with others that it would have been a bad idea to sneak across the border...

Sounds like you already have a solution, but for what its worth, the expedited passport services are surprisingly fast....
High demand for passports has slowed down processing times. IIRC this resulted in pushing back the deadline several times. Waits are officially 4-6 weeks for a standard passport, 2-3 expedited.

http://www.travel.state.gov/passport/get/processing/processing_1740.html

Keep in mind that it's two different boarder crossings.

Google is your friend.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1082.html


U.S. citizen travelers to Canada do not have a passport, passport card or approved alternate document such as a NEXUS card, they must show a government-issued photo ID (e.g. Driver’s License) and proof of U.S. citizenship such as a U.S. birth certificate, naturalization certificate, or expired U.S. passport.

What isn't clear is getting back into the US.

The following indicates an "enhanced driver's license" would be sufficient. (A "passport cards" is the same as a passport for entering into Canada.)

Starting June 1, 2009, all travelers must present a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) compliant document (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html) such as a passport or a passport card for entry to the United States. While passport cards and enhanced driver’s licenses are sufficient for entry into the United States...

Information about "passport cards".

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3921.html

Information about "enhanced drivers licenses".

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/gc_1197575704846.shtm

Information about entering Canada.

http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/security-securite/admiss-eng.html


If you are a citizen of the United States, you do not need a passport to enter Canada. However, you should carry proof of your citizenship, such as a birth certificate, certificate of citizenship or naturalization, as well as photo identification.

==============

While I would not recommend it, I bet you would not have much trouble getting back into the US. Maybe, you should call the office at the boarder crossing you plan to cross at.

If you do try it, I would recommend being open about it (don't "sneak" anywhere!).

I heard on a Toronto radio station yesterday that they're still letting people though for now. Unofficial grace period.

I am leaving in less than a week from Missoula, Montana for a tour with a couple people. We were considering a ride to Banff.

As of June 1st, 2009 the new rule is that to cross the border by land you need to have an up to date passport, and mine expired in March.

My question is, should I

a) Think of a new route?

or

b) Keep route to Banff and try to "unofficially" the border somewhere/somehow.

I mean there is a lot of room up there and I'll be on a bike.

The other 2 people both have current passports.

Suggestions? Thanks a lot.

Get hold of your U. S. Senator and ask for the staff person that deals with passports. Explain your issue and request their help.

High demand for passports has slowed down processing times. IIRC this resulted in pushing back the deadline several times. Waits are officially 4-6 weeks for a standard passport, 2-3 expedited.

http://www.travel.state.gov/passport/get/processing/processing_1740.html

Note that I was referring to expedited service by a company such as this one : http://www.rushmypassport.com/ rather than going normal route but paying post office for expedited service.

I used this type of company once for a rush on a lost passport and a few times for help getting visas for countries that sometimes have awkward rules that you want to get right. You pay some more, but they seem to be able to get things surprisingly quickly. I don't know if that applies in current climate or not.

I know nothing of the particular company I picked, it was an example that came up in google search.

yahoo had an article yesterday about this. its so new that the dont expect 100% compliance till about october-november... so i say ride on.

Uh, if you're a US citizen and you are found on US soil what's the big deal?

Border guards generally don't have much of a sense of humor while on the job. Be smart and don't F!@# with them.

Uh, if you're a US citizen and you are found on US soil what's the big deal?

US citizens smuggle things, too. And Homeland Security seems to have a thing about domestic terrorists lately.

So, you know, if the border patrol wants to make it a big deal, they're certainly capable.

Uh, if you're a US citizen and you are found on US soil what's the big deal?


You're having trouble following the conversation ... he was thinking of sneaking across the border into Canada at some place other than the official border crossings and then heading up to Banff. Then sneaking back across the border into the US again.

Probably not a good idea. He might not get caught doing that, but if he were there would be long-lasting and expensive results.

Now, however, he has decided to just stay in the US. And to the OP, I recommend the Logan's Pass area ... it's pretty and there are some good areas to cycle.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14302884@N04/sets/72157606589046925/

Uh, if you're a US citizen and you are found on US soil what's the big deal?

The discussion of this thread centers around the concept of leaving US soil officially, by entering foreign soil and THEN trying to re-enter US soil officially. That is where the difficulty arises: no one may re-land on US soil without US Border control "official approval and permission". Don't believe me?? Try it and let us know what happens without "official approval and permission". :-)

I suggest to you that no one can land on Canadian soil without official "approval and permission" from CCRA types either. I have seen folks at the border (Canadian soil side) waiting for a friend being detained by CCRA at the Canadian port of entry (Emerson, MB - actually at West Lynn, MB). I have also read about US fellows arrested in Gretna, MB and Altona, MB for entering Canada illegally (aka without "permission and approval").. They took their chances and then were arrested - and charged under Canada's Criminal Code for being in possession of things illegal to possess in Canada and under the Canada Customs Act for failing to declare and ..... They took their chances - and lost out :-(

While an individual Border Control agent may be lenient, that is their discretion and they DO NOT need to be lenient.

I have heard unofficial grace period, even on the news today, and hey, theres always the game of playing dumb and not realizing it was expired.

I have heard unofficial grace period, even on the news today, and hey, theres always the game of playing dumb and not realizing it was expired.

Oh let's see ... regular announcements all over the media about it since January, if not earlier. How "dumb" would you have to play it? "I was in a coma for the past 6 months"?

Yup, Machka, no one has a monopoly on being dumb. Sometimes reading the BF threads is a LOT better than reading Mad Magazine :-)

Oh let's see ... regular announcements all over the media about it since January, if not earlier. How "dumb" would you have to play it? "I was in a coma for the past 6 months"?
This is the first I've heard of it. All those media announcements missed me.

I was under the impression that a passport was required for entry into the US since around 2007.

This is the first I've heard of it. All those media announcements missed me.

I was under the impression that a passport was required for entry into the US since around 2007.


The 2007 thing was for air travel, but if you were travelling by land you could still present a driver's licence and birth certificate. However, as of yesterday, you need a passport (or enhanced driver's licence or a couple other things) if you were travelling by land.

I'm now beginning to wonder if there will be a few people caught off-guard.

But here's one of the media releases from the beginning of March 2009:
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/release-communique/2009/2009-03-04-eng.html

And another media release from January 31, 2008
http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2008/nr20080131-eng.aspx

So this has been announced for some time.


I go here fairly often to take a look at the travel situations around the world ... including updated entry requirements. There's a "Key Information" section on the right, and on the left there's a "Travel Reports and Warnings" section. If you look up United States there, you'll see several things, but the new entry requirements is one of those things. The whole site is full of useful travel information.
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/index-eng.asp

The problem is America is becoming eerily similar to it's cold war counterparts in regards to travel. Papers? Where's your papers, comrade? :( . . . I don't know oskafir..... my dog ate them. Off to "questioning" you go.

All in the name of "security". Security from what? It appears our worst enemies are always from within.

Look at how Minnesota and Indiana is treating truckers with a so-called survey when stopped on the road. http://www.landlinenow.com/2009/04/checklist-fatigue-part-i-so-called_17.shtml
If you refuse the "survey".... they shut you down.

Get hold of your U. S. Senator and ask for the staff person that deals with passports. Explain your issue and request their help.

I did that in the summer of '07. My wife and I realized, the day before we were to leave for Europe, our passports had expired the week before. The staffer said, get in the car this minute and drive to Philadelphia and get in line. So we did. An hour in the car, a half hour at an instant photo place, and a couple hours in line later, we had our forms submitted. Then we walked around historic Old City while the passport office cranked up the printing press. Ate some Spanish food. Went back and stood around outside the office. We were back home with new passports within eight hours of discovering our mistake.

Find out where your nearest passport office is; I'm lucky, of course, being an hour from Philadelphia; but it's not the only one.

While crossing the border on my bike from Sombra Ont. to Marine City Mi. yesterday I releiazed my passport had expired in Jan 2008.

I presented this information to the Border Patrol, and was told that the US Passport has a 5 year renewal grace period. The officer told me that this is inderictley noted on the US Passport renewal form (DS-82 02-2008) by asking if the existing Passport had been issued within the last 15 Years.

Also the officer told me if anyone could prove their citizenship with three pices of ID they can not be refuesd entry (it just will take longer with a lot of questions, and possiably a search).

I was admitted entry without any problems.

Eariler today I submitted my renewal application at the Post office ($75.00) and was told the average return time is 10-14 working days.

I would take the trip, and just be upfront with you information at the border.

The problem with this idea that

"maybe your border guard will make an exception"

is that if they don't then you are forced to totally change your plans at the last second.

These stories of instant passports are enticing, however, Missoula's own governmental website says

"The U.S. postal service issues passports. To apply for a passport in Missoula, contact the post office located at 1100 Kent Street."

You call them and hit the button for passport information and then they give you the exact same information about how you can mail your passport for standard processing (4-6 weeks) or expedited processing (2 weeks).


hmmmm.....jmay....I wrote that before your reply....you are a US citizen then? When did you go to Canada originally? Maybe they let you "get home" so to speak, but they won't let me get into Canada as my reason to cross is purely recreational.


5 year grace period? What the heck does that mean? Also, 3 pieces of ID? I wonder if a school ID counts. I have a drivers license, my expired passport, and a school ID.

Damn I hate confusing laws.

So far it sounds like enforcement is lax: http://www.canada.com/identification+rules+effect+Canada+border/1653550/story.html So, it might not be as bad as we think. ;)



The following indicates an "enhanced driver's license" would be sufficient.
Just FYI, the only US states that currently issue enhanced drivers licenses are Michigan, New York, Vermont and Washington: http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_edl.html

I saw a link the other day that CNN had an interview with the border patrol. Basically it said that if you didn't have the approved documents, you would be detained until your citizenship could be confirmed.

These stories of instant passports are enticing, however, Missoula's own governmental website says

"The U.S. postal service issues passports. To apply for a passport in Missoula, contact the post office located at 1100 Kent Street."

Expediting your passport will only work if you can go to the passport office yourself (or if you use a service, like "rushmypassport.com"). There aren't that many of them and they tend to be in places like NY city and Philly.


5 year grace period? What the heck does that mean?
If you have a valid passport, renewing it is easy because you don't have to supply the supporting documentation (eg, a birth certificate) and show up in person. The "5 year grace period" allows an expired passport to be renewed just like a valid passport (ie, the grace period is only relevant to renewing the passport).

Note that you have to send in your old passport to get a new one (the old one is returned to you after having a hole punched in it).

An expired passport can't be used for boarder crossings (except that, it appears, that Canada allows an expired passport to be used).


Also, 3 pieces of ID? I wonder if a school ID counts. I have a drivers license, my expired passport, and a school ID.
Well, just because 3 is the minimum required, doesn't mean you can't provide more. Things like real-estate tax bills might work as ID too.

Anyway, it looks like your problem is re-entering the US.

http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/security-securite/admiss-eng.html


If you are a citizen of the United States, you do not need a passport to enter Canada. However, you should carry proof of your citizenship, such as a birth certificate, certificate of citizenship or naturalization, as well as photo identification.

=====================


Note that I was referring to expedited service by a company such as this one
: http://www.rushmypassport.com/ rather than going normal route but paying post office for expedited service.
Interesting. $100-$300 for the service + $30 shipping + $75 passport fee.

=====================


I suggest to you that no one can land on Canadian soil without official "approval and permission" from CCRA types either.
I managed to do it both ways without any official approval from both sides (I did try to get the official Canadian approval). I am not recommending it though! Whatever you do, be honest and be polite.

Expediting your passport will only work if you can go to the passport office yourself. There aren't that many of them and they tend to be in places like NY city and Philly.

Wow... from Missoula, have to choose among Seattle, Denver, and Minneapolis:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_4312.html

I rolled right up to the State Dept in DC for a rush job on mine in 2003, I think they have a different shop around there now.

Oh let's see ... regular announcements all over the media about it since January, if not earlier. How "dumb" would you have to play it? "I was in a coma for the past 6 months"?

Clinton and Bush were in Toronto last week. Neither of them knew about this.

Clinton and Bush were in Toronto last week. Neither of them knew about this.

It's a US law ... Bush would have been in power when it was passed. Really scary if they didn't know about their own law.

It's the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI):
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/index.shtm

Please post a picture so we can further identify you when we see you on CNN after your attempt, that way we can say we know someone famous!...or infamous?

Neither one knew about it.

http://www.embassymag.ca/page/view/canada_washington-6-3-2009

Maybe they didn't know about it because to pass it, Congress and Bush had to ignore earlier treaties with Canada that said people crossing the borders could self identify if they were citizens of either country.


It's a US law ... Bush would have been in power when it was passed. Really scary if they didn't know about their own law.

It's the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI):
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/index.shtm

Ignoring treaties is one of the brilliant features of divided government. :)

I've been falsely arrested twice at the US border in the last 5 years. First thing was the guy on the US side trying to help out the Canadian side with a misinterpretation of Canadian law. The second time was for an outstanding warrant for a guy with the same name as me who lived in New Jersey or Maryland.

I'm by upbringing and profession about as elite as it gets, all the best schools but not to the Skull and Bones level, and I am not really rich though I retired at 39, so I miss the actual elite by a big notch. Never break any laws no convictions, no tax avoidance, never taken a recreational drug. I am so pure it's a little suspicious. So I don't particularly stand out for adverse treatment at the border, I've just been unlucky.

The beauty of the new system is massive databases that are very inaccurate; shared mandates so we are trying to do what we think someone else wants done if we could figure it out; not terribly bright people; and all kinds of new mandates they don't understand (Canadian guards were just recently armed).

So my feeling is that if you don't want a hassle at the border, avoid it. Even if your papers are correct there are all kinds of presumptive traps just waiting to catch you up. The reality is the US doesn't really want people coming any more. They don't care if keeping students out will affect the innovation economy, reduce low wage workers, or if keeping tourists out will affect border communities, there is not a whole lot of concern in the US about lost trade with their largest trading partner. The only substantial concern is the political fear over revenge from Hispanic voters. I guess there are some Canadian extracted voters in the US, but they keep a low profile. Obama named as head of Homeland Security someone who believes the falsehood that 9/11 hijackers came through Canada. The existential threat is way higher than all that other stuff in the official mind. The US is a friendly place, but it isn't open any more, and I for one don't go where I am not wanted.

I'm not getting my back up. It cost me 4k in legal fees to straighten out the outstanding warrant thing, even after the mistake was identified by US officials. It could have been so much worse. I was alone, so I didn't get hauled off in front of my kids; I was nicely treated by courteous highway patrol officers in NY; I wasn't summarily banned by the border cops when they saw the arrest which would have cost a fortune to overturn; I don't believe I have a permanent record that will affect me, but if the case had been slightly different, I might have had to plead it out and would have been stuck with a record. So my feeling about the current border is like the US officials feeling. The existential threat is too high for the benefit. I'm not risk adverse, but I don't play around with reputational risk.

I think US travelers have some problems also. The Canadian side wants you to come up, but they are enforcing new US mandates in extra boy scout fashion. And the US travelers have to deal with US guards who may be tough, don't know, on the return trip. I also run into a lot of US folks who do stuff like bring weapons (often handguns) into Canada, just because that is what they are used to, which is really asking for it these days. Slews of stuff from throwing stars, lock-back knives that can be flipped by a gorilla with tree sized biceps, to bear spray are illegal in Canada, under certain circumstances. Any weapon is illegal.

For the next few months anyway you still can cross the border without a passport. Do any people posting actually live near the border? What they're doing is registering those who cross without passports and it will get more difficult (read take longer) without them. They interviewed actual US border guards who said you don't need a passport. I'll take their words over the congecture above. Having said that...get your passport. But if you have other Id and don't act like an ass you should be able to cross:

'Flexible' U.S. guards ease border fears
http://www.thestar.com/article/643597

I live near the border but haven't tried to cross w/o a passport since... well, the 90s sometime. Passport just makes it easier. Or at least not harder.

"They interviewed actual US border guards who said you don't need a passport."

Border enforcement varies a lot along the border. Alberta is much tougher with a large percentage of all people barred from US entry occurring out of those ports. We know Napolitano isn't up to speed, and I know from ample experience it isn't uniform at the border, so maybe somewhere in the middle of the bureaucracy there is someone who knows what they are doing...

That really sucks.

My only comment on this is that as someone who crosses the US Canadian border frequently, I used to think that the Canadian border people were mellow and that about 1/3 of the US border guards were intentionally rude. My percentages are now this: about 50% of the border people on each side are intentionally rude.

They must do joint training.

If anyone thinks I'm being overly sensitive, Mayor Bloomberg recently went out of his way to attend a Border Patrol press conference in NYC. Bloomberg was asked to stand up and say a few words. He asked the Border partol officials what they intended to do about border guards who were intentionally rude. He said that it was an epidemic and was hurting tourism in NYC.

My daughter recently crossed on a bus and one student from France was questioned in front of everyone. The student asked the border guard to slow down so that she could follow the language. The US guard replied that if she was a student in an English speaking country, she should understand English.

I fail to see how this helps security. In fact, I think that most of these people are thugs who should lose their jobs.


Ignoring treaties is one of the brilliant features of divided government. :)

I've been falsely arrested twice at the US border in the last 5 years. First thing was the guy on the US side trying to help out the Canadian side with a misinterpretation of Canadian law. The second time was for an outstanding warrant for a guy with the same name as me who lived in New Jersey or Maryland.

I'm by upbringing and profession about as elite as it gets, all the best schools but not to the Skull and Bones level, and I am not really rich though I retired at 39, so I miss the actual elite by a big notch. Never break any laws no convictions, no tax avoidance, never taken a recreational drug. I am so pure it's a little suspicious. So I don't particularly stand out for adverse treatment at the border, I've just been unlucky.

The beauty of the new system is massive databases that are very inaccurate; shared mandates so we are trying to do what we think someone else wants done if we could figure it out; not terribly bright people; and all kinds of new mandates they don't understand (Canadian guards were just recently armed).

So my feeling is that if you don't want a hassle at the border, avoid it. Even if your papers are correct there are all kinds of presumptive traps just waiting to catch you up. The reality is the US doesn't really want people coming any more. They don't care if keeping students out will affect the innovation economy, reduce low wage workers, or if keeping tourists out will affect border communities, there is not a whole lot of concern in the US about lost trade with their largest trading partner. The only substantial concern is the political fear over revenge from Hispanic voters. I guess there are some Canadian extracted voters in the US, but they keep a low profile. Obama named as head of Homeland Security someone who believes the falsehood that 9/11 hijackers came through Canada. The existential threat is way higher than all that other stuff in the official mind. The US is a friendly place, but it isn't open any more, and I for one don't go where I am not wanted.

I'm not getting my back up. It cost me 4k in legal fees to straighten out the outstanding warrant thing, even after the mistake was identified by US officials. It could have been so much worse. I was alone, so I didn't get hauled off in front of my kids; I was nicely treated by courteous highway patrol officers in NY; I wasn't summarily banned by the border cops when they saw the arrest which would have cost a fortune to overturn; I don't believe I have a permanent record that will affect me, but if the case had been slightly different, I might have had to plead it out and would have been stuck with a record. So my feeling about the current border is like the US officials feeling. The existential threat is too high for the benefit. I'm not risk adverse, but I don't play around with reputational risk.

I think US travelers have some problems also. The Canadian side wants you to come up, but they are enforcing new US mandates in extra boy scout fashion. And the US travelers have to deal with US guards who may be tough, don't know, on the return trip. I also run into a lot of US folks who do stuff like bring weapons (often handguns) into Canada, just because that is what they are used to, which is really asking for it these days. Slews of stuff from throwing stars, lock-back knives that can be flipped by a gorilla with tree sized biceps, to bear spray are illegal in Canada, under certain circumstances. Any weapon is illegal.

I live near the border but haven't tried to cross w/o a passport since... well, the 90s sometime. Passport just makes it easier.

+1


There are a lot of stupid threads on Bike Forums. This is right there near the top.

Why would someone consider illegally crossing an international border, but before contemplating this act (which could violate the laws of two separate countries), seek guidance and advice in advance on a public internet forum?

Do it, or don't do it. But don't ask in advance whether you should break the law.

Getting a passport is simple, cheap, fast, and worth doing.

There are a lot of stupid threads on Bike Forums. This is right there near the top.



Although, this thread turned out to be informative for some who were unaware of the June 1, 2009 border change.

Although, this thread turned out to be informative for some who were unaware of the June 1, 2009 border change.

I don't mean to denigrate the efforts of community members to try to add useful information - I just wonder why people who are contemplating breaking the law would come to a bicycle forum to ask for legal advice (esp. since the relevant laws are pretty clearly enumerated on some official government websites).



Just cranky today.

It certainly quite useful to tell someone not to sneak across the border.

The Guantánamo Bay Detention Camp is always looking for new customers.


I don't mean to denigrate the efforts of community members to try to add useful information.