Southern California - State's closing Chino Hills park

Some of the best mountain biking in Southern California, especially for endurance rides, is in north Orange County, Chino Hills State Park - 14,000 acres. If you haven't been there yet, go soon because it's on the state's list for "shuttering," which means closure! I talked to dozens of outdoors folks and got their responses and set up a reader poll. You might be surprised at the response if you check their thoughts out. Feel free to vote. This will change mountain biking for many years in the area. Poll, photos and info. thanks.

somewhat off topic - Im saddened by the closing esp that I fly my remote controlled gliders there.

Is it closing as just in not being maintained, or rezoned for another use?

If they're just not going to maintain or staff it, I'm okay with that. If they're selling it to builders, then I'm not.

I am not familiar with this park, but what's to stop you from using the park after it is officially closed?

David I read your article in the Register and have gone online to vote via the my legislator to oppose the closing.

Odd enough I am riding there tonight. I meet a friend Tue/Thur night to do Northridge to Sycamore and down Telegraph. I have been riding CH SP for probably 20 - 25 years and have seen it go through all sorts of changes, fires, floods, whatever. Personally I wouldn't mind the county park (Carbon Canyon) closing if the SP, which is used almost exclusively by serious recreationalists, could stay open. Trail running and riding groups would pitch in and maintain the trail although Telegraph would most likely revert back to singletrack status as it has in the past.

My major concern is what happens in times of Santa Ana Winds, dry weather and the fire roads aren't maintained ? There are just too many houses and structures near by to let that happen.

If the state needs to close parks, there are all sorts of them that are barely used by the public or can for a short while, close down with little impact. It is parks like CH and Will Rogers that will be missed by most. I'm not certain what I will do if the park is closed. Still ride it? Probably.

In previous threats of closing parks it's been mentioned they'd be patrolled and ticketing for trespassing. It'd be better to cut almost all services and let people go in and still pay entrance fees.
Kinda like the grocery stores staying open 24 hours because they already have a bunch of stockers there and it doesn't take much more personnel to capture some revenue.

In previous threats of closing parks it's been mentioned they'd be patrolled and ticketing for trespassing. It'd be better to cut almost all services and let people go in and still pay entrance fees.
Kinda like the grocery stores staying open 24 hours because they already have a bunch of stockers there and it doesn't take much more personnel to capture some revenue.

Problem with parks like CH... many people don't pay entrance fees. They either walk, jog or ride over from local communities or come in through unauthorized entrances. I am there alot. I have to say I seldom see a ranger. I did last weekend, almost run into a maintenance vehicle. They were going out to Four Corners to clean out the trash cans. Funny before the trash cans and potta pottie at Four Corners, the area was always spotless; now there is trash everywhere. Sometimes "improvements" are not better. I have no idea why they needed to place a pottie out there. In 25 years I never needed one. Perhaps it is for the poachers and squatters to use.

Some of the best mountain biking in Southern California, especially for endurance rides, is in north Orange County, Chino Hills State Park - 14,000 acres. If you haven't been there yet, go soon because it's on the state's list for "shuttering," which means closure! I talked to dozens of outdoors folks and got their responses and set up a reader poll. You might be surprised at the response if you check their thoughts out. Feel free to vote. This will change mountain biking for many years in the area. Poll, photos and info. thanks.


Isn't this getting a little hysterical? I can't find any information on what this closure means, maybe you as a journalist can live up to the journalistic creed and do the research to find out the facts? Rather than "talk to a few folks" and "take a readers' poll", how about spending some time 'polling' state government staff in Sacramento and find out exactly what's planned. I'd like to know if this means complete closure by locking the park gates and arresting anyone who comes onto state lands, or just eliminating services and maintenance at the parks. For example, I can't see the State closing the beaches along the Orange County/Los Angeles/San Diego coasts, so there must be more to this story (you know, the "nittier-grittier" of the story?).

http://laist.com/2009/06/02/no_one_is_staffing_it.php

The Park's budget for the state is 1/10th of 1% of the total state budget. If they do close a bunch of parks it's strictly as a window dressing and it will be done as an "F-You" to the people of the state by the politicians.

What a sorry state we're in.

We need to privatize correctional facilities, fire fighting, and schools(voucher system to legal residents). State would save billions. I have more ideas nobody likes.

http://laist.com/2009/06/02/no_one_is_staffing_it.php

Thanks for the link. Couldn't find anything like that on 4 pages of Google search results.

There really isn't much money to transfer from one program to another or to even reduce/cutdown working days for administration/workers. Believe by law 60% of the state's budget has go to the educational system. Plus all the initiatives that were passed over the past decades ties the hands of the Gov and Legislature as far as budget flexibility. That's not mentioning the high unemployment rate and rising fuel/power costs that reduces the income the state needs to fully fund all the programs.

Can't see privatizing even a few state parks and who in the private sector is willing to take that chance? They need to make a profit and charging enterance fees isn't enough. They would ask for exceptions that would allow development on that land, whether it's businesses or housing. Fast food joints at the beginning, but you can see it can quickly escalate into losing the park(s) altogether. Donations never work in the long run and it will be hard to find a Corp sponsor to pick up the tab.

There's no easy answers or solutions. Recreational areas and activities always get the cut first. The community has to pick up the tab and/or spend the time to keep the place clean and make repairs...and only the richer areas are able/willing to do that. Everybody else will be worried about feeding their family and paying their bills. So that leaves the people that actually use the park OR getting the state and city to add state parks on their list for prisoners or people scheduled to do community service to spend a few days cleaning up the park instead of the freeways.

surfrider - My apologies if it wasn't clear. I'm not sure if you read ths comments. There were more than 500 lines from dozens of people, which I edited down from over 1,000 lines. Additionally, there are over 400 people who have voted. Perhaps you missed the link to our earlier story which was provided also. Closing means closing. There are a total of 200 parks throughout the state on the list to be "shuttered," as the state calls it. Chino is one of them, the only such one in Orange County. Gates locked. Posted. Will there be patrols to arrest people? That is unknown at this early stage. But I would suspect the state doesn't have the money for such patrols, that is the essence of the problem. Hope this helps. Thanks!

David,

Thanks for bringing this up. I have either biked or hiked in many of those parks, especially Chino Hills. These areas are absolutely irreplaceable. Back on the East Coast these sort of parks DON’T exist. Once they are gone, they are gone forever.

Here's my two cents. These areas must become financially sustainable in the LONG TERM. You cant just say Privitization is a no-go, just because there is a risk of development. A small amount of development, done in a sustainable fashion, might be what is required. A "necessary evil", so to speak. As far as additional development, that can be handled with some very strict and specific legal language.

I would be curious to see a budget for one of these parks. How many people are employed? What kind of expenses do they have? What kind of revenues? Private corporations operate much more efficiently than any government organization. Once a place like this becomes private, many of restrictions could be removed. For example, is a skilled ranger absolutely required to patrol and cleanup the park? Can this be outsourced to a specialty subcontractor? In any case, I am SURE a private corporation could successfully operate a park like this and with much more financial efficiency. Question is, could it pay for itself?

One more thing - I believe that Catalina is 90% a Natural Conservancy. What is that model look like from a financial standpoint? How does it sustain itself? Do the tourists pay or how is it funded? Something to look into...

It's tough to close parks but, seeing the number of voters that actually use non-beach parks versus, say, bus riders in the big cities, you can where the path of least resistance is on this. They will leave the beach parks open and let the rest go into some sort of mothballed status. Some people that have some insight into these operations have mentioned that taking equipment off-line and securing these parks and, then reopening them, will cost more in the long run than realized savings up front from the closures. Go figure.

A good, cheap day-trip makes a lot of sense in these times...too bad the politicians can't get a handle on that aspect. They see dollars/numbers and votes....maybe they need some meetings out in the Big Pines to get a better perspective.

Did you guys see they're going to close Mt. Tamalpais in Marin? I guess the birthplace of modern day Mtn Biking doesn't mean much.... You'd figure Gary Fisher could pull some strings or at least donate some money....

One more thing - I believe that Catalina is 90% a Natural Conservancy. What is that model look like from a financial standpoint? How does it sustain itself? Do the tourists pay or how is it funded? Something to look into...

Actually there is a really good model right close to home and I wonder if something similar wouldn't work for Chino Hills.

Check out Irvine Ranch Conservancy. It manages Limestone, Red Rock, Blind, Fremont and Weir Canyons as well as areas around Bommer Canyon. The parks are basically closed to public traffic except for docent led programs. The docents are all volunteers (I am one). When you compare Limestone to Whiting Ranch (which is connected and right next door) there is no comparison. Limestone is beautiful and pristine, Whiting a big nasty mess. But that is because use is limit on IRC lands. BTW the properties were previously managed by The Nature Conservancy. I actually started with them.

I would love to see Chino Hills come under a similar program. I am hoping the Hills For All and the Share folks come together and draft up a plan. I know I would volunteer for patrol and programs as would most of my friends. Funding of course would be private or through donations. Those are the people we really need to get involved.

Did you guys see they're going to close Mt. Tamalpais in Marin? I guess the birthplace of modern day Mtn Biking doesn't mean much.... You'd figure Gary Fisher could pull some strings or at least donate some money....

I thought Mt. Tam was closed to mountain biking years ago?

Some people that have some insight into these operations have mentioned that taking equipment off-line and securing these parks and, then reopening them, will cost more in the long run than realized savings up front from the closures. Go figure.


Money is not the object. Getting people to agree to more taxes is. The legislature just got shut down by a huge margin on their ridiculous ballot measures, so their plan is to save the necessary money in places that hurt the average joe, in the hope that Joe will eventually say, "Well, I guess we do need to raise taxes.". It's a complete scam.

Republican or Democrat doesn't matter to me, so don't give me the "It's their fault" speech. They're all crooks.

Money is not the object. Getting people to agree to more taxes is. The legislature just got shut down by a huge margin on their ridiculous ballot measures, so their plan is to save the necessary money in places that hurt the average joe, in the hope that Joe will eventually say, "Well, I guess we do need to raise taxes.". It's a complete scam.

Republican or Democrat doesn't matter to me, so don't give me the "It's their fault" speech. They're all crooks.

We sortof get into the P & R mode... but why more taxes? Why can't the state just control unnecessary spending? At what point is being the worse taxed state in the nation too much?

I suggest the legislature and our governor spend some time looking at all the entitlement programs this state manages plus what it spends for state union workers and their pensions and make the cuts there.

Of course, I may have misunderstood you and we are in agreement. I also believe all politicians are essentially crooks.

I would be very against using a IRC model. While I appreciate access thru their programs to PRIVATE land; this is not good for PUBLIC land. The IRC is mostly a goodwill gesture by a huge landraper.
Our public parks should be open to all at all times. Not at alternate Tuesday or Saturday mornings when you can only go on this one trail if you sign up ahead of time.
The issues of how much trash Whiting may have is seperate from who (whom?) should be able to access it when.
I still think that the cost of closing the parks in "caretaker" status is just about the same as the costs of providing very little service to the public now.

We sortof get into the P & R mode... but why more taxes?

Of course, I may have misunderstood you and we are in agreement. I also believe all politicians are essentially crooks.

We are in agreement. There is _no_ need for more taxes. By closing the parks, the politicians are trying to strongarm the public into agreeing to more.

I still think that the cost of closing the parks in "caretaker" status is just about the same as the costs of providing very little service to the public now.

You're exactly right, but it wouldn't have the desired effect, which is to convince you and I into raising our own taxes.

David;

Just like to hold pro journalists to a higher standard, especially when they are editors. Never saw the OCRegister article, stopped reading the paper when it seemed to de-emphasis facts in favor of a more sensationalistic style of writing, and using polls to develop stories. You've heard the saying that Nixon would never get caught for the Watergate break-in today since it'd take too much time, money, and effort to research and do the fact-checking, havn't you?.

Actually closing the parks might be interesting. I'd enjoy not having a little less oversight and instead have to rely on my own knowledge, skill and intuition when deciding to hike/ride in a 'park' with some semi-remote areas. Might scare some folks away, since they wouldn't be able to rely so heavily on that all-purpose "If I screw up I can always call someone to get me out of this dumb situation" device called the cell phone.

This is just lame-duck Schwarzi having a temper tantrum after his propositions were rejected by the voters. He wants to punish us before he leaves office. Any potential savings would be negated by having to fence off parks and pay law enforcement to ticket us for being on our own public property. Let's do ourselves a favor and kick his sorry posterior out of office now before he can do any more damage, the yutz!

i would think the best time to use these state parks is when they are closed. i already have plans.
i heard from a friend that the state parks will still be staffed even during the closure so the idea of "saving money" from their closures is complete BS. this is a perfect example of government trying to punish the people.
CA is a f*cked up state. CA has the highest taxes in the country and they also have the biggest debt and deficit. I am from Montana and they always balance their budget WITH NO SALES TAX, car registration is about $35 a year and they have dont have the millions of "fees" on every aspect of life like CA. Oh yeah, they have free parking everywhere too.

California is run by a bunch of communists,which is perfect for about 70% of the population.