"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - clarification on cat 5 upgrade requirements

I re-read the requirements to upgrade from a 5 for a 4 and I'm just a little unsure of something. I need to participate in 10 mass starts, but I'm slow and need a little clarification.

I'm curious to know if participating in a TT will do anything for upgrading yourself. I'm still waiting for the races I've been in to show up on my license.

I know a TT is in no way a "mass start" race but I'm really just hoping that I have a more of a reason to ride one.

They are painful and kind of fun, but I've been racing the stock class and I'm certainly not strong enough to pull a winning time(like that really matters anyway).

No TT's do not count.

Do the TT's if they are fun for you, not for upgrade reasons. And seriously, 10 mass starts is the requirement, not the recommendation. Upgrade after 10 only if you think you're ready. Trust me, the races are not any safer, just slightly longer.

Do the TT's if they are fun for you, not for upgrade reasons. And seriously, 10 mass starts is the requirement, not the recommendation. Upgrade after 10 only if you think you're ready. Trust me, the races are not any safer, just slightly longer.

and somewhat faster. The biggest difference is that you will find more faster guys so the field gets a bit deeper.

^^^ true. It sucks being in a cat 4 race with guys sitting on truck loads of upgrade points:mad:

You needn't wait for your race results to show up on usacycling.org to request an upgrade based on them.

and somewhat faster. The biggest difference is that you will find more faster guys so the field gets a bit deeper.

Depends who shows up. The cat 5 crit in the Ventura stage race was second in speed only to the P/1/2 and I think the M35+. A few really fast guys (*cough* spinwax *cough*) turned up the juice on that one. Of course it wasn't nearly as long as the other races...

You needn't wait for your race results to show up on usacycling.org to request an upgrade based on them.

In fact, if you do wait, you may never upgrade. Most promoters never report the results. It's up to you to keep your own race "resume."

Depends who shows up. The cat 5 crit in the Ventura stage race was second in speed only to the P/1/2 and I think the M35+. A few really fast guys (*cough* spinwax *cough*) turned up the juice on that one. Of course it wasn't nearly as long as the other races...

LOL, thanks for the props UMD, but I am slow and old... Actually after all said and done our race ended up within 2min or so of all but the 35+ and Pro 1-2 races length wise.

My last race as a 5 will be this weekend in Bakersfield! Should have moved up after Ventura, but that is another story.

5s are weird. You have such a mix of people.

1. People that just started riding and just started racing.
2. People that have been riding a while and just started racing.
3 Triathaletes. Man, these are the guys you have to watch out for.
4. Old guys like me, that raced 17yrs ago and just got back into the sport.

The 10 mass start races need to be USACycling permitted races, right? The Tuesday Night Worlds don't count, do they?

The 10 mass start races need to be USACycling permitted races, right? The Tuesday Night Worlds don't count, do they?

Mass start, US Cycling.

LOL, thanks for the props UMD, but I am slow and old... Actually after all said and done our race ended up within 2min or so of all but the 35+ and Pro 1-2 races length wise.

My last race as a 5 will be this weekend in Bakersfield! Should have moved up after Ventura, but that is another story.

5s are weird. You have such a mix of people.

1. People that just started riding and just started racing.
2. People that have been riding a while and just started racing.
3 Triathaletes. Man, these are the guys you have to watch out for.
4. Old guys like me, that raced 17yrs ago and just got back into the sport.

One of the chicken ranch guys in that race with you is a cat 1/almost-pro mountain biker, and the other guy I was telling you about kicks my butt regularly on a climbing ride that I started on Thursday evenings. They are both really strong but just don't race much. Anyway, the Chicken Ranch guy, Matt, chased after you when you went the wrong way in the circuit race to try to get you back on course but couldn't catch you, then turned around and caught the field.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I do have all the information of races I have been in so that's good, thank you. Minnesota just seems to lack races in my opinion. Tuesday night crits and time trials...an odd RR or circuit thrown in there every several weeks. I'm just impatient I suppose, I just want to race! :twitchy:

One of the chicken ranch guys in that race with you is a cat 1/almost-pro mountain biker, and the other guy I was telling you about kicks my butt regularly on a climbing ride that I started on Thursday evenings. They are both really strong but just don't race much. Anyway, the Chicken Ranch guy, Matt, chased after you when you went the wrong way in the circuit race to try to get you back on course but couldn't catch you, then turned around and caught the field.

LOL!!! Well, tell him thanks for thinking of me. That is sportsmanship.... too bad we didn't see him. :(

I wish many flats upon you Sandbaggers :crash:

This year I raced in the 5's, or 4/5 combined. Including my time trial finishes, I've had 6 podium finishes and two wins. But I have only 8 mass start races that they officially count. I've requested a 4 upgrade twice and been denied twice. They are real sticklers on upgrading and apparently they don't care how well you do.

...and yes, I still get labeled a sandbagger.

do two more races and then quit yer sandbaggin

The 10 mass start races need to be USACycling permitted races, right? The Tuesday Night Worlds don't count, do they?


Mass start, US Cycling.

Our Thursday night race isn't USAC permitted, but from what I heard counts as upgrade from 5->4. Is it up to the discretion of the local official perhaps?

I wonder if (organized) training races fall under this clause?


1D2. Road Upgrades (a) Guidelines and Notes by Category:

5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races. Local Associations may also establish policies where upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider education clinic.

4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25 qualifying races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

3-2: 25 points in any 12-month period 40 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

2-1: 30 points in any 12-month period** 50 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade USA Cycling may add additional requirements for upgrading

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/USAC_rulebook.pdf (pg 20)

I've only done 4 races, but I did 3 beginner sessions at the local velodrome, that was enough to get me to cat 4, real easy.

I've done several dozen TT's, if not over a hundred in my four seasons of racing. I raced a few national university championships of various types. (they're big in the UK - I could do three a week in the summer if I wanted to)

I've done ten mass-starts over four seasons, so I muck about in Cat 5 (in the US). I can set the pace at the front all race, but I've got a very Cat-5 sprint, so I go nowhere in the end. :D

Can I upgrade to cat 4 if I had 9 mass starts last year (2010) and have done 1 mass start this year (2011)? Or do all mass starts have to be within a 12 month time window? I'm curious because I'd like to upgrade early this season (2011) but have only one mass start under my belt this year, the Chantilly VA crit. thx James

just ten total. i know some guys that took three years to get their 10 races in (cuz they're afraid of crits)

No time limit on cat 5 starts. There is for upgrade points from 4 up.

@strouja hey, I was in that race. Where did you finish? (I was 16th)

Edit: nevermind! I know all about it =)

This year I raced in the 5's, or 4/5 combined. Including my time trial finishes, I've had 6 podium finishes and two wins. But I have only 8 mass start races that they officially count. I've requested a 4 upgrade twice and been denied twice. They are real sticklers on upgrading and apparently they don't care how well you do.

...and yes, I still get labeled a sandbagger.

I did 6 races as a 5. Podiumed 4/6 and requested my upgrade then got it the next day. I then got 3rd in my 1st 4 race so I guess it depends on your region. Here in Utah they'll upgrade you as soon as you feel comfortable and can show your strong enough to. I know a lot of the guys I was talking to were telling me to upgrade even sooner than that because my last 2 races were the RR and Circuit of a Stage Race so a couple 5's and 4's were telling me I should have upgraded after 4 races and they would have approved it. Actually thinking of it, my buddy upgraded to a 4 after 2 races after getting 3rd in the Stage Race

theres a guy here who, from what i can tell, has only done two races. he has no results on USA cycling, and i've raced twice with him. he got 3rd in the 5 race and then a pack finish. he's already a 4. wut up wit dat?

but more power to him. i dont understand why people dont upgrade. you are paying the same entry fee and driving the same distance to do a much shorter race. usually half as long as a Cat 4 race. and then you have some Cat 4s who have obviously have a shat load of points but wont upgrade simply because they want to win. but the thing is nobody cares if you win. so just upgrade dammit

Not all results end up posted on USA Cycling. I've probably done a half dozen races that the promoter never officially reported the results to USA Cycling. And other times, the promoter did not include license numbers - so if you find the race, you can see the results, but they are not listed if you click on my license number.

Plus, he may have done races in years past that you do not know about.

I did our weeknight crit series... Our 'worlds', requested my upgrade after 10 starts, and got it the next day. Nothing had showed up in my race results on th USAC site. At Cat4, I can now race Masters. I would have felt totally cheesy if I hadn't upgraded right away. This is my first season. The 10 crits, plus the group rides and non-sanctioned road events, have given me the group skills I needed. Riders afraid to do crits should be forced to do them until they are comfortable rubbing shoulders, so they are safe to be around! :)

^^^ true. It sucks being in a cat 4 race with guys sitting on truck loads of upgrade points:mad:

Sandbaggers are the norm rather than the exception in Ca :)

I raced like 26 or 28 times last year and never won as a 4, but was upgraded to a 3. I would like to win, but the race itself is where I have fun. I see tons of 4s who should have been 3s a long time ago.

Sandbaggers are the norm rather than the exception in Ca :)

I think they exist everywhere.. it's just a fact of racing.

Having a bit of a discussion with some friends around the Cat5 -> 4 topic where we had a different view on upgrade timing. Let's say one was not exactly competitive in Cat5. Lack of fitness, tactics, whatever. Below average finishes. Should one still upgrade to a 4 whenever it's possible, or stick around in 5s?

Reading this thread while imagining the posts being spoken in the voices of South Park characters is hilarious ;).

But then, I remember being a 5 and being uncertain about how things work... Best advice is to get into the 4s first time you can. The 4s are just 5s who have done a few races, along with a few Cat 4 lifers who are actually good to have around. Even if you aren't winning or having "below average finishes" (WTF does that mean in bike racing? - this ain't triathlon), upgrade. Then you can suck in the 4s instead of sucking in the 5s and you might learn something in the process.

Reading this thread while imagining the posts being spoken in the voices of South Park characters is hilarious ;).

But then, I remember being a 5 and being uncertain about how things work... Best advice is to get into the 4s first time you can. The 4s are just 5s who have done a few races, along with a few Cat 4 lifers who are actually good to have around. Even if you aren't winning or having "below average finishes" (WTF does that mean in bike racing? - this ain't triathlon), upgrade. Then you can suck in the 4s instead of sucking in the 5s and you might learn something in the process.

That was my terrible way of saying "bad but it could be worse". If there were points given out, this hypothetical person :innocent: would be getting none.

Still I would upgrade from 5->4 no matter what. The pace isn't much different, and the extra experience in the pack makes things a tad safer.

The way I see it, getting crashed out of the 5's by a 1st-timer would be extra dumb/your fault if you had an option not to be there in the first place..