Road Cycling - Proof the Madone sucks

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tech/probikes/armstrong_madone_ssl/cn04-ssl.01.jpg

Lance doesn't even ride it anymore! How many times did he actually ride that pos? I think he's been on the SL longer than the production Madone and now the SSL.

I've been saying the Madone sucks ever since I rode it. So have alot of other people.
I should qualify that statement by saying it is a "ok" bike- the production Madone- but for the price, hype and length of time since Trek has actually made a all-new model... the Madone sucks.

Meanwhile, a bike like the Pinarello Dogma or Prince SL (which probably come really close to the same price as the Madone) actually live up to the hype.

It's cool enough for the Lance-a-be's.

It'd suck a lot less if it wasn't carbon or a Trek. :)

Check out the seat angle on that bike. I reckon that's close to 71 degrees.

Trek pulled the old marketing switcharoo on the Lance-wannabes. I would be one pissed Lance-fan if I just dropped $3K on a Madone that Lance doesn't even ride anymore...or rode for only a couple months. I think his 5900 got more road time than the Madone.

Trek pulled the old marketing switcharoo on the Lance-wannabes. I would be one pissed Lance-fan if I just dropped $3K on a Madone that Lance doesn't even ride anymore...or rode for only a couple months. I think his 5900 got more road time than the Madone.
I'd be so happy to get the Madone at $3k. That's a full $2k savings off the retail price. However, the whole "Lance rides a stock bike" marketing angle has pretty much been shot to hell.

Does that pos really go for $5K??

It'd suck a lot less if it wasn't carbon or a Trek. :)

Check out the seat angle on that bike. I reckon that's close to 71 degrees.

That's misleading because the seat tube starts in front of the bb not directly over the top. They had to mount the front derailleur at the back of the seat tube, not on center or in front of the tube like most frames.

of course, the yellow special-edition madone sells for $6,000.

Didn't he just give Ms. Crow one?

Didn't he just give Ms. Crow one?

Yep. It was her birthday I believe.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/teamtech04.php?id=tech/2004/probikes/madone_ssl_armstrong

Well, it says there that "The biggest challenge with the Madone SSL wasn't making the bike lighter, but that it rode the same as the Madone Lance is already riding."

Madone would most probably mean the Madone with the SL, the one that you think sucks. That would mean the Madone SSL is just as sucky as the Madone 5.9. However, "But so far, Lance seems happy with his new bike. He's come back to us in testing and said 'this bike is really solid." That means he likes the Madone SSL, and if it rode the same as Madone 5.9, that would mean he likes the Madone 5.9. Okay, I might not make much sense, but if Lance didn't feel it was a really good bike, he most probably wouldn't have rode it. Even though he rode the Madone 5.9 for a relatively short period of time, that was probably due to the weight, which was heavier than the 5900 superlight or the other models, whichever Lance prefered.

I don't think the Madone really sucks, I have not rode it, but I believe that is was a fair model, it rides pretty well as on reviews on roadbikereview.com. Furthermore, The price could be well worth it, looking at the type of components and wheel provided. The Madone SSL could probably be part of the Madone series, just like the 5000 series. Trek makes good bikes, they did not necessarily be expensive, just like my 2200, which is light and super good! I just love it, I did felt like I should own a carbon bike, but... the 2200 just got the better of me!

Yes I think he did shell out some big bucks to buy Sheryl a Trek Madone. So the only bike he has actually had to pay for in a loooong time was a Trek Madone.

Didn't he just give Ms. Crow one?

Well, that proves that more than the Madone sucks. :D

I'm curious. So what is it about this bike that actually sucks? Other than the seat tube angle or the price.

However, the whole "Lance rides a stock bike" marketing angle has pretty much been shot to hell.

Gee, Big, you probably don't even believe that "stock car" racing uses stock cars! Or that the Budweiser donkey really knows anything about brewing. ;)

Gee, Big, you probably don't even believe that "stock car" racing uses stock cars! Or that the Budweiser donkey really knows anything about brewing. ;)

Budweiser tastes like it was made by a donkey.






We now return to our regularly scheduled thread...

I'm curious. So what is it about this bike that actually sucks? Other than the seat tube angle or the price.

Some people just hate Treks. It's the same mentality of the group that hates Shimano. The bike, of course, is an awesome racing machine.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/teamtech04.php?id=tech/2004/probikes/madone_ssl_armstrong

Well, it says there that "The biggest challenge with the Madone SSL wasn't making the bike lighter, but that it rode the same as the Madone Lance is already riding."

Madone would most probably mean the Madone with the SL, the one that you think sucks. That would mean the Madone SSL is just as sucky as the Madone 5.9. However, "But so far, Lance seems happy with his new bike. He's come back to us in testing and said 'this bike is really solid." That means he likes the Madone SSL, and if it rode the same as Madone 5.9, that would mean he likes the Madone 5.9. Okay, I might not make much sense, but if Lance didn't feel it was a really good bike, he most probably wouldn't have rode it. Even though he rode the Madone 5.9 for a relatively short period of time, that was probably due to the weight, which was heavier than the 5900 superlight or the other models, whichever Lance prefered.

I don't think the Madone really sucks, I have not rode it, but I believe that is was a fair model, it rides pretty well as on reviews on roadbikereview.com. Furthermore, The price could be well worth it, looking at the type of components and wheel provided. The Madone SSL could probably be part of the Madone series, just like the 5000 series. Trek makes good bikes, they did not necessarily be expensive, just like my 2200, which is light and super good! I just love it, I did felt like I should own a carbon bike, but... the 2200 just got the better of me!

I think they meant that the Madone SSL rides like the Madone SL (non aero seat tube and I think different seat/chainstays?). I never really saw him riding the Madone 5.9 (the one available to customers) that much before the Madone SL was created for him. RacerX is probably referring to the Madone 5.9 rather than the SL since it's not available to the public yet.

Trekrider, I don't know anything about car racing or beer (although I thought Budweiser had the clydesdale horses as mascots) but I'm really not surew what you're getting at. At least around here I've heard a lot of the "Lance rides this bike" type of marketing which doesn't really apply anymore.

Yes I think he did shell out some big bucks to buy Sheryl a Trek Madone. So the only bike he has actually had to pay for in a loooong time was a Trek Madone.
d'ye think he got her a racer discount?

Article also states it might be in the 2005 line-up, does anyone know when Trek will update there web site with the 2005 bikes?????

Trek makes a "stock" bike for Lance, then sells it to the public.

Article also states it might be in the 2005 line-up, does anyone know when Trek will update there web site with the 2005 bikes?????

in 2005 maybe? The 2004 lineup wasn't on the site until well after the tour was over.

I also wonder how much they would have to charge for a OCLV 55 frame vs an OCLV 110 frame. I'd imagine the cost jump would be substantial.

Article also states it might be in the 2005 line-up, does anyone know when Trek will update there web site with the 2005 bikes?????
Trek has one of the slowest internet sites. They came out with the 5000 took em atleast a month or more to get it up. That's just ONE bike... probably late 04 to early-mid 2005.

Trek has one of the slowest internet sites. They came out with the 5000 took em atleast a month or more to get it up. That's just ONE bike... probably late 04 to early-mid 2005.

Anyone else notice the price jump on the 5000? I could have sworn it was initially listed at around $2000.

Lance doesn't even ride it anymore! How many times did he actually ride that pos? I think he's been on the SL longer than the production Madone and now the SSL.

I've been saying the Madone sucks ever since I rode it. So have alot of other people.
I should qualify that statement by saying it is a "ok" bike- the production Madone- but for the price, hype and length of time since Trek has actually made a all-new model... the Madone sucks.
I fail to see your point. Are you saying that because Lance doesn't ride the bike it's no good? What the hell does what he rides, or uses prove the to real folk? He wears tall white socks, do you? In some circles, that would be considered pretty Fred.

Classic geometries from the 5000 to the 5900 should stay the same year per year but most likely the color schemes would change. I don't see Trek changing the 5200's geometry for example voiding it's Tour de France victories just for marketing hype,we all know what happened with New Coke ehhh. They'll probably just add new models like the Madone for 04, I don't expect much of a change for 2005.Thanks I was just curious on the web updates for Trek.

Yes I think he did shell out some big bucks to buy Sheryl a Trek Madone. So the only bike he has actually had to pay for in a loooong time was a Trek Madone.


I sincerely doubt that he even had to pay for that bike, either. He's their star spokesman and he probably gets whatever he wants.




Also, what's up with the title of this thread? What "proof" is there? Is there something in the picture I should be seeing? Just seems like one big rant to me, but no proof.

I agree with Davet wholeheartedly. Just because Lance doesn't ride it doesn't make it a bad bike. I ride a Cannondale which I am well pleased with; are you saying I ride a sucky bike too? Faulty logic for sure. Also, I bet the Europeans crave Bud just cause it may not be as readily available as some of the other beers there and because it is from a foriegn country. Personally, I like Bud but then again, I like a lot of different beers. Just my two cents.

Anyone else notice the price jump on the 5000? I could have sworn it was initially listed at around $2000.
It's still 2000. I was at my local dealer and its 2K still.

It's still 2000. I was at my local dealer and its 2K still.
The local dealer around here has it for $2000 as well, it just seemed odd that the site changed.

I find that most of the people who think the Madone is not a great bicycle either don`t own one or bought the wrong Madone. Switch bike shops or get something better from Montgomery Ward.

Bring out your dead...DING...bring out your dead...

My LBS was kind enough to let me ride one of these, I wasn't impressed et all. Didn't like the "wooden" feeling to begin with, and for that price ?!
no way thank you
Corsaire

Bring out your dead...DING...bring out your dead...

That's some funny shnizzit :D

Classic geometries from the 5000 to the 5900 should stay the same year per year but most likely the color schemes would change. I don't see Trek changing the 5200's geometry for example voiding it's Tour de France victories just for marketing hype,we all know what happened with New Coke ehhh. They'll probably just add new models like the Madone for 04, I don't expect much of a change for 2005.Thanks I was just curious on the web updates for Trek.


Wow, I didn't know there was so much hate for this bike?

What did they do to the geometry? Let me guess.....they took some top tube length off to make it more acceptable to the average guy who has the money to spend.

Damn, give me that stretched out feeling anyday.....Love it.

Seriously what is the difference between the geometry of the bike lance races with compared to the one you buy off the showroom floor.

If trek is "civilianizing" their real race frames just to sell more bikes .......then they should lose a lot of credibility. Give me the real race bike.

Here is Cycling News' review about the Madone...they don't really think it sucks

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/reviews/trek_madone

Europeans do not crave Bud..they have better taste than that

Bud was created for post WWII womens tastes

i have an '05 madone 5.9 and I got it for less than $3k and I like it.

Seriously what is the difference between the geometry of the bike lance races with compared to the one you buy off the showroom floor.

If trek is "civilianizing" their real race frames just to sell more bikes .......then they should lose a lot of credibility. Give me the real race bike.

no difference. someone pointed out above that trek's pattern is building lance a bike, then selling that bike to the public. i have a 5900, which is the exact same frame lance won a few tours on. it was a "special lance only" version when he first started riding it, much as the madone sl was when it replaced the 5900. but if you go buy a 58 cm madone sl, you're buying a replica of the frame lance won the last two tours on.

he rode the bike originally called the madone (the one with the "aero" seat tube) very very briefly--i think one stage of dauphine maybe, then went back to the 5900 until the madone SL came out.

trek is not civilianizing their bikes. they're tour-de-france-six-time-championizing your bike.

I'm curious. So what is it about this bike that actually sucks? Other than the seat tube angle or the price.Someone needs to put down the crack pipe. The madone 5.9 has the same geometry as the the 5200,5500 and 5900.

The most popular and most meaningless thread I think I've ever seen on BF.

I dream of the day I am a good enough cyclist to make blanket statements about a bike who's abilities still far exceed mine.

British cooking is...well.. British cooking?



Hey, Britain is famous for it's Indian cooking. :p

Europeans do not crave Bud..they have better taste than that

You would be amazed, if not disgusted, how many Irish drink Bud. It is the "hot" beer in Dublin now. I can't explain it but you see it everywhere. I was in Spain not too long ago but did not see any Bud there - thank god.

The name Budweiser was actually stolen from the Czecks. They produced for many years, and you can still get it there now, a Budweiser that is a far cry from the barley water you get here. Think of a pilsner brew even better than Pilsner Urquell.

Now what's any of this got to do with Treks? They are fine good bikes except for those that may prefer to ride with their pinkies in the air - as they're getting passed.

58cm bike for Lance? How tall is he anyway? He always looked kinda short to me.

i've ridden a madone. compared to what i have, it felt more like an aluminum bike -- not very compliant. does that mean it sucks? no, not exactly. it's more complicated than that. it means i didn't care for it at all. in my mind it's a very, VERY nice bike...that sucks.

You would be amazed, if not disgusted, how many Irish drink Bud. It is the "hot" beer in Dublin now. I can't explain it but you see it everywhere. I was in Spain not too long ago but did not see any Bud there - thank god.

The name Budweiser was actually stolen from the Czecks. They produced for many years, and you can still get it there now, a Budweiser that is a far cry from the barley water you get here. Think of a pilsner brew even better than Pilsner Urquell.

Now what's any of this got to do with Treks? They are fine good bikes except for those that may prefer to ride with their pinkies in the air - as they're getting passed.

58cm bike for Lance? How tall is he anyway? He always looked kinda short to me.

From someone who worked in restraunts, when I would read off the beer list to Europeans they would stop me as soon as I mentioned Budweiser. Its amazing as Americans we say this sucks that sucks in Europe they do this and they know beer and would never drink this water. Well, it was the most requested beer by the Europeans....

OK on to the Madone.....Who cares?

Blast from the past. Check out the ss forum the hot topic is Lance's track bike.

If Lance said the Madone 5.9 was the best bike he had ever ridden – everyone would want one. If he said it was the worst he had ever ridden it would be out of production faster than the issue of the next day’s news. Because Lance chooses not to ride the Madone 5.9, it has become the victim of myth, rumor, hearsay and urban legend - just as when people insisted the world was flat. The frenzy has added fuel to the fire for all the torch carrying, rock throwing Trek haters out there.

1. The fact is that the Madone 5.9 was designed specifically for Lance in his quest to win the 2003 Tour de France. It was the USPS official team bike in 2004, and is team Discovery’s choice as the official team bike in 2005 as well. It is now a “Tour proven”, solid pro-level race machine – like it or not.

2. The frame geometry of the Madone 5.9 is the same as the Madone SSL, Madone SL 5.9, Madone SL 5.2 , Madone 5.2 and 5000.

3. The frame material of the Madone 5.9 is the same as the old 5900 superlight, and the new Madone SL - all OCLV Carbon 110 – only the Madone SSL is made of Carbon 55 although it is reinforced with carbon 110 in specific areas for added strength and durability.

4. 2003 was one of Lance’s most difficult Tour de France races to date both physically and mentally. When things got hard - he returned to what had given him success in the past in the 5900....it’s really just that simple. He didn’t want to take any unknown risks, as there was a ton on the line to get win #5. This was all pointed out in the article link above. I also know this to be true from a former teammate as fact. Lance is - in part a traditionalist and didn’t want to risk win #5 on an unproven frame. The bike was so new it only had Trek internal testing and other training rides from Lance as a basis for being a proven frame. In the end – when things got difficult and very uncomfortable for Lance he made a decision to go back to the 5900.

5. Lance is very willing to try new things as long as it can give him an advantage, whether it is “aero” and or “weight savings” – if it’s is a positive advantage - he will take it – wouldn’t you?

6. Lance spent a ton of time with John Cobb in the development of the Trek-TT bike for the ultimate aero time trial machine, and little has changed over the last 3-years of it’s production, other than an adjustable seat tube. Trek also makes very few of these frames (I heard only about 250/year). Lance is very happy with this bike – Tim Deboom has also used it at Ironman Hawaii, winning there 2-times and has also proved this bike is fast. I also own this bike used it in Kona at Ironman in 2003 and I can attest that it is a very fast machine, in fact the fastest bike I have ever ridden.

7. Trek actually took the known “Aero” success and design elements of the now proven TT bike and the ride characteristics and geometry of proven 5900 superlight - merged the two frames – to produce the Madone 5.9. So the Madone 5.9 is actually the child of two very successful parents – it’s bloodline pure. The advanced and progressive tube shapes are not just made up, they are proven through wind tunnel testing to be more efficient and faster than those of the 5900.

8. 5900 vs. Madone 5.9 the weight difference was less than 50 grams…the advantage was clearly in favor of the Madone 5.9 in that it’s “aero” characteristics are much more advanced of the 5900. For Lance at the time however, it was more of a comfort thing in that it was the 5900 that help get 4-tour wins. In 2004 the weight margin got larger with the newer Madone SL and SSL. The Madone 5.9 with Frame and Fork = 1439 grams (3.17 lbs.), the Madone SL 1389(3.06 lbs.) grams, and the Madone SSL 1289 (2.84 lbs.) grams.

9. The difference is really small to everyone else - but Lance is a known fanatic when it comes to weight savings in both bike frames and bike components. When the difference comes down to literally “seconds” at Lances level you can bet that Lance wants every advantage he can get. The margin of “how much more faster” the Madone 5.9 is being more “aero” vs. the added weight over the newer SL and SSL is not enough for Lance – Lance chooses the weight savings. At the same time the Madone 5.9 is good enough to be the official “Team Bike”. I can guarantee it would be pretty hard to keep 27 other “pro riders” happy if the bike was crap.

10. There is one thing you can count on is that Trek is working on the next best thing to impress Lance and give him alone an advantage over everyone else in the Tour – including his own team. The Madone SL will most likely end up being the 2006 team bike – as the new and next best thing will be reserved for Lance.

11. Sure Lance can most likely win on just about anything and Trek is the new kid on the block. Everyone wants to hate the new kid and the person or team that has a winning streak like Lance does. I also have some friends who live Europe and when I talk about the Tour or Lance, they say how much they hate Lance. When I ask why - they just say because he is so good and wins all the time - is that a reason to hate someone or what he rides? For some I guess it is. Trek also doesn't have the same history of some of the other bike manufactures - but Trek has Lance pushing the envelope of technology and the R&D at Trek has responded, while many of the other bike manufactures are just sitting and watching.
But as history has proved, competition was good for the automotive industry, in the end producing a much better, higher quality product available to everyone today (at all price levels) as a direct result of progressive technology. I know because I was there and part of the begining of the change to improve quality and performance - (I was an automotive engineer for 6-years in the late 1970's and early 1980's and a team member of the 1984 Corvette redesign team and I saw first hand this change taking place from the engineers perspective). Technology also has a trickle effect to all models over time - a good thing for everyone. So the nonbelievers out there just slap a “marketing label” on it and stand firm in their belief that it's just decals and marketing – but the fact is - that it is true R&D. Carbon 55 used in the Madone SSL is true aerospace material and they are the only ones using it to date and it is truly as progressive as Carbon 110 was when it was first used by Trek. As an Aerospace Engineer I know that this material is in pretty short supply, rare and its application was specific for space based satellite structural components. So what's this all mean? - Better bikes for everyone, not just those who buy Trek Madones.

12. Yes – I own a Madone 5.9, and opted for the 2003 limited edition 1 of only 500 produced. Actually - only about 250 actually came to the USA, so I know my bike is pretty rare. It also came with a matching jersey and Lithograph signed by Lance Armstrong himself....pretty cool in my book. I could have purchased anything out there, but the Madone 5.9 spoke to me. So much of what's out there (to me anyway) looks pretty much same old - same old other than paint. The progressive “Aero” tube design of the Madone 5.9 is just what this Ironman Triathlete likes and what I was looking for in a road bike. The aerospace engineer in me also knows and appreciates the fact that "shaped tubes" have more structural integrity and a different acoustic signature over a standard round tube design - in the end the frame is stronger, stiffer and more reliable over time. I have only about 200 miles on the bike at this point – it is smooth, solid, stiff, quiet and above all fast…everything I look for in a bike. I can also say that I have ridden a ton of high-end bikes in the range of $6,000 – $12,000 and this bike ranks right up there. It is truly a pro-level race machine and overkill for most everyone else. It really comes down to personal preference. You either like the appearance or you don’t – the frame geometry of the Trek bikes either fit you or they don’t.

From someone who worked in restraunts, when I would read off the beer list to Europeans they would stop me as soon as I mentioned Budweiser. Its amazing as Americans we say this sucks that sucks in Europe they do this and they know beer and would never drink this water. Well, it was the most requested beer by the Europeans....

OK on to the Madone.....Who cares?

Budvar (Euro Bud) is a different type of beer than the American Budweiser. Maybe the Euro's thought you had the Euro Budweiser (Budvar). Honestly, when they are back in Europe, they do not go out of their way to import the American Bud because it's so good. It is totally different in taste.