"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Carbon Road Wheels - ??

Hi,
I am looking to buy a good set of Carbon Deep section road wheels. I want to use them for road races and time trials and they need to be light enough for climbing.

I have been looking at Zipp 404 or Easton EC90 Aero wheelsets. I would prefer clincher wheels, but would also consider tubulars.

Which wheels would you recommend?

Thanks, BK.

http://www.photoscene.com/kimandsteve/images/5494.png

Seriously, are you people blind?

http://www.residentassistant.com/one/images/stories/jreviews/263_DSCN1503_1197861543.JPG:popcorn:popcorn

I really don't see the problem. This forum has way more traffic.

I really don't see the problem. This forum has way more traffic.

That's the problem

I really don't see the problem. This forum has way more traffic.

More traffic traffic maybe, but less useful traffic. If you want intelligent answers about racing you are better off in the racing forum.

Get the Zipps.

Get the Eastons.

Get both.

If you want intelligent answers about racing you are better off consulting a psychic with a ouija board.

Fixed.

Fixed.

I did say better off, not that you would be consulting the all-knowing oracle to get the perfect answer. ;)

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here you go, read this: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=470422
:innocent:

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Yep, AND more knowledgeable.

Thanks you those who gave an answer. For those of you who called me blind I would say Foxtrot Oscar !

Thanks you those who gave an answer. For those of you who called me blind I would say Foxtrot Oscar !

So did you not see the racing forum or did you just not care? I don't have any experience with either of the wheels you mentioned but I do know that you will get better answers in the racing forum. I just don't understand why so many people don't "see" it when they post.

It was a question about gear to use while racing...

Tubular wheels will be a little less expensive than clinchers. If you ever flat during a race you're pretty much done anyway. Many people will claim lower rolling resistance on tubulars. I'll attest to a smoother ride. And you can run them anywhere from 60-160psi, depending on the race you're doing.

1. How are tubulars less than equivalent clincher?
2. The tubular/clincher crr debate is still up in the air. The extra steps you need to go through to get the rr the same is probably going to turn 95% of racers away from tubulars.(recent tests from Al Morrison(AFM) on biketechreview.com says something like 3 tubes of glue PER WHEEL with a tubular to match a top clincher with latex tube)
3. Running them at 160 will do nothing but shake your fillings out.

I did the tubular thing for a couple of years, and still do for cross, but in this day the average racer will be just fine on a top quality clincher.

There's also the ~200 gram difference between carbon tubulars and carbon clincher wheelset, plus the weight difference of the tires/tubes. ~180-200 grams for a clincher + ~60 grams for a latex tube vs. ~220 grams for a tubular with tube and glue.

I figure weight difference for tubular vs. clincher wheelsets and tires is ~250-300 grams but I could be mistaken on the tire weights.

Just for the record, rotating weight doesn't mean anything.

I've been racing the Token C-50's (clinchers) for two seasons now. Absolutely top notch wheel and VERY tough. I've had fantastic luck with Reynolds tubulars, and found Zipp tubulars to be as durable as saltine crackers. Easton was using rebranded saltine rims but have switched sources on their new product. The Zipp clinchers have less of an issue with durability, but are priced well above a lot of other offerings.

Two teammates have the Reynolds clinchers and love them.

+1 on the Reynolds. DT Swiss hubs, very strong and light.

I've been racing the Token C-50's (clinchers) for two seasons now. Absolutely top notch wheel and VERY tough. I've had fantastic luck with Reynolds tubulars, and found Zipp tubulars to be as durable as saltine crackers. Easton was using rebranded saltine rims but have switched sources on their new product. The Zipp clinchers have less of an issue with durability, but are priced well above a lot of other offerings.

Two teammates have the Reynolds clinchers and love them.

not as tough as i thought.

the ping i heard during tonight's race was a broken spoke (on the rear wheel drive side).

i'm far from heavy. maybe my cottage of wattage was in overdrive?

guess they were tough enough that i didn't notice until after the race.

Al Morrison(AFM) on biketechreview.com says something like 3 tubes of glue PER WHEEL with a tubular to match a top clincher with latex tube)


incorrect.

3 coats of glue on the rim and 2 on the tire = around 1.25 tube

Paging Psimet...

Psimet, are you out there?

To the OP: Find a post by Psimet and click on his signature. That is the deal on aero carbon wheels.

Thanks for the mention. I do have 50mm carbon clinchers and tubulars right now. Same rim as Token,neuvation,Williams,planetx,Blackwell,etc.

Mine are 24f/28r drilling though and this is what makes the difference. You can select whatever hubs and spokes and lacing you want as well.

Prices are unbeatable. End commercial.

Thanks for the mention. I do have 50mm carbon clinchers and tubulars right now. Same rim as Token,neuvation,Williams,planetx,Blackwell,etc.


I didn't think Williams sells 50mm wheels? Maybe he used to, I dunno...

Edge

I didn't think Williams sells 50mm wheels? Maybe he used to, I dunno...

What I meant by same rim is same manufacturer. There aren't that many around and even fewer who single source their rims.

What I meant by same rim is same manufacturer. There aren't that many around and even fewer who single source their rims.

Ah, good to know. Thanks.

Neuvation Cycling !!! (http://www.neuvationcycling.com)

I just raced on a hodgepodge of Zipp. Zed8 in the rear with a 404 up front. Super fast combo. My next set of wheels' depth will be in the 80ish mm range.

I just raced on a hodgepodge of Zipp. Zed8 in the rear with a 404 up front. Super fast combo. My next set of wheels' depth will be in the 80ish mm range.

I'd love some deeper wheels... I run 46mm race wheels now, but I'm going to get some 45mm clinchers for my everyday wheels next year and I'd love to get some 68-90mm rims for race wheels.

I'd love some deeper wheels... I run 46mm race wheels now, but I'm going to get some 45mm clinchers for my everyday wheels next year and I'd love to get some 68-90mm rims for race wheels.

When I got to the race on Sunday, the team owner pulls in next to me in the parking lot and as I'm putting on my 50mm carbon wheels on my bike, he asks if I want to run his spare set of Zed8's. I think about it for a minute; the tires aren't my Vittoria Pave's, but I decided to go with them anyways.
I really liked them. My next set of carbon wheels will either be some 808s or Token T85s.
These deep wheels are now as light as climbing wheels were a few years ago, so it's not like they're very slow anymore.

Forgive the crappy decals...they are temporary and not even applied evenly. This is my demo set and I was trying to work something up that could be seen at the Illinois Road Race Championships this weekend.

http://www.psimet.com/images/PodioCarbon.jpg

24f1x - DT Revs/28r2x - DT Comp laced to White Industries H2 hubs. 50mm full carbon clincher version.

Stellar.

please consider tubulars for your race wheels!

aside from all of the performance benefits, you will have more control if you puncture, which is something everyone around you will appreciate in a race!

puncturing at high speed or in a turn with clinchers almost guarantees that you and your bike will meet the pavement.

carbon clinchers may seem like the next great thing on the market, but their development is not as much performance driven as it is catering to consumer demand. carbon clinchers also have one serious disadvantage over aluminum clinchers.

Carbon clinchers increase your risk of a blowout puncutre. The most common puncture I see on rides and races is not a debris puncutre, but a blowout. A blowout is caused by too much air pressure in the tube. On a hot day or under heavy breaking heat is transfered from the road and/or the rim to your tire and tube. In such conditions the 115psi you initually pumped your tire up to can rise significantly. Carbon material increases this problem since it does not dissipate heat well at all, but more effectively transfers it to the tire.

carbon clinchers don't offer any advantages over aluminum clinchers. even if you want aerodynamic clinchers there are several aluminum clinchers with farings on the market that offer the same performance at a lower price.

with the advent of tufo tape, puncutre sealants, and new durable tire compounds with puncture resistant belts, riding tubulars is not a hassle. if you do puncture, not only will you have more control, but there is a good chance you can get up and running more quickly than with a clincher.

performance wise, you get less weight, less deflection, less rolling resistance, more durability, and more aerodynamic performance for your dollar with tubulars.

I like carbon clinchers with aluminum braking surfaces. Am I the only one?

incorrect.

3 coats of glue on the rim and 2 on the tire = around 1.25 tube


One of his last posts on it says 4 on the wheel. I just glued some tubulars up last week and 3 coats was right at 1.25 tubes. So maybe like 2 tubes per wheel to get a similar crr as a quality clincher with latex tube.

performance wise, you get less weight, less deflection, less rolling resistance, more durability, and more aerodynamic performance for your dollar with tubulars.

The 4 Vittoria Evo's I flatted 2 years ago begs to differ with the durability. Then having to pull them off and buy another $80 tire kinda sealed the deal for me.

One of his last posts on it says 4 on the wheel. I just glued some tubulars up last week and 3 coats was right at 1.25 tubes. So maybe like 2 tubes per wheel to get a similar crr as a quality clincher with latex tube.

I've used 2 coats on the rim, 2 coats on the tire. The last glue job, I had glue on the rim, so I used 1 coat on the rim.
You should have seen us when we were tearing my old tire off my rim last week at the bike shop. It took three guys 10 minutes just to get one spot off the rim to slip a tire lever into.

i am talking about the wheels

try running more durable tires. tire durability is an entirely different issue. there are great training tires available for tubulars, but thanks to people choosing to run tubulars almost exclusively for racing there are limited avialable options at your local bike shop.

if you don't choose the right rubber for your riding you will have tire issues regardless of wheel type.

as for the cost, decent clinchers cost $50; and while you can replace the tube and roll home, it is advisable to replace your tire after most punctures anyway.

not as tough as i thought.

the ping i heard during tonight's race was a broken spoke (on the rear wheel drive side).

i'm far from heavy. maybe my cottage of wattage was in overdrive?

guess they were tough enough that i didn't notice until after the race.

More spoke sounds, huh? I don't think a dab of oil will fix that one though.

FWIW, I have occasionally come across defective spokes. I had one break on my 36h Deep V for seemingly no reason. I replaced it, and the wheel was flawless for years.

More spoke sounds, huh? I don't think a dab of oil will fix that one though.

FWIW, I have occasionally come across defective spokes. I had one break on my 36h Deep V for seemingly no reason. I replaced it, and the wheel was flawless for years.

i have to say that, in retrospect, i'm impressed with the fact that the wheel performed well enough for me not to notice i had a broken spoke until someone pointed it out on the cool down.

even better: went to my lbs to get it fixed. to my surprise, he did it on the spot.

i am talking about the wheels

try running more durable tires. tire durability is an entirely different issue. there are great training tires available for tubulars, but thanks to people choosing to run tubulars almost exclusively for racing there are limited avialable options at your local bike shop.

if you don't choose the right rubber for your riding you will have tire issues regardless of wheel type.

as for the cost, decent clinchers cost $50; and while you can replace the tube and roll home, it is advisable to replace your tire after most punctures anyway.

That's news to me, i've replaced 4 or 5 tubes per tire before. Even more on my MTB

i have to say that, in retrospect, i'm impressed with the fact that the wheel performed well enough for me not to notice i had a broken spoke until someone pointed it out on the cool down.

even better: went to my lbs to get it fixed. to my surprise, he did it on the spot.

Yeah, it sounds like an isolated incident. The quick and easy fix is one of the benefits of sensible wheels :) (external nips, j-bend spokes :thumb:)

[/B]

That's news to me, i've replaced 4 or 5 tubes per tire before. Even more on my MTB

really, were all those replacements close in milage to each other? because if so, you have made my point.

as for the cost, decent clinchers cost $50; and while you can replace the tube and roll home, it is advisable to replace your tire after most punctures anyway.

Nope, no need to replace a clincher or a tubular for most punctures.

I ride my rear tires until I see threads. After I wear through two rears, I replace the front along with the rear (buy 3 tires at the same time). This leaves the fronts with a little life left in them, which is prudent.

I replace my tubes after 5-10 flats, or if I get a hole in or near a patch.

really, were all those replacements close in milage to each other? because if so, you have made my point.

You are smoking crack dude. I run tires for several thousand miles, replace rears 2-3 months and fronts 4-6 months. I typically get a few flats per month. Most of my flats seem to be from bits of metal, staples etc, and some glass, rarelemy thorns. I run racing tires so they are not the most durable but it hasn't been so much of an inconvenience to run something thicker. The flats are usually pretty far apart, when I get a few close together (in time) I will replace the tire. But one random flat doesn't mean replace tire.

really, were all those replacements close in milage to each other? because if so, you have made my point.

i had my P2R for almost 4k miles, i replaced them because the threads were showing. the flats were mostly during the late fall/ early winter. I replaced them 3 weeks ago with no flats since winter.

hmmm

maybe i am on the crack pipe, and maybe i spend too much on tires...but to avoid punctures (or to make myself feel better) I used to drop some extra coin on my clinchers (I only run tubies now)...meh...maybe I should sell you all my tires :P I can sell you guys my old tubies if you want to fix them up.

i roll pedal force, i can afford to drop my dimes on rubber

my comment was from my experience that puncutres typically result from thin rubber; i.e. either race rubber or worn tires.

How long does 2400 hours take you? Anyway, worn tires are more likely to flat of course so if I suddenly start getting a bunch of flats I'll replace the tire; usually I replace them before they get that bad. But just a flat here or there does not mean the tire is bad... Such is the price to pay for running thin tires...

Wow, I replace my tires when they start to square away. I just replaced my rear Vittoria tubular because the filed center pattern was worn down.

After racing karts for years, I make sure my tires GRIP. Added to that, I really lean into turns. I'm hell on tires.