Bicycle Mechanics - my REI bike tune up

I own a Klein with Ultegra upgrades and being anal I noticed a slight "clicking" noise when my gears were to the extreme position (smallest in front to smallest in rear, or largest front to largest rear... Otherwise it shifted perfectly no skips, "clunks", perfect. I decided to spend a little money and get a tune-up just becuase I bought it used and put some miles on it.

Went with the "performance" tune-up at REI. Mistake! Rode it the following day and derailer problems all day. Chain actually fell off the front when I was trying to get it to move up! Took 2 tries to get it to drop in the rear, or travelled 2 gears when moving up the gears in the rear.

Took it back and complained. They re-adjusted it and I rode it in their parking lot. It wouldn't even drop to the smallest sprocket on the front! Brought it right back in, and complained again. THey said they would put their "master mechanic on it. When by yesterday and tried again. Rode like crap.

To make a long story short, "If it aint broke, don't fix it"!

So, I'm debating picking up a stand and doing this myself, or looking for a "good" bike mechanic in the sacramento area. Any thoughts?

I would learn to do it yourself. nothing on your bike is really that hard to fix, but there will come times when you have NO IDEA what is going on, then you get on here and ask questions.....

working on your own bike does a few things, it MIGHT save you money after you pay for tools but more importantly, it will give you a better understanding of how your bike works. and when something breaks, you won't have to wait for someone else to fix it.

instead of buying a ton of tools right off the bat(unless your rich/like to spend money) I would get a stand and a few simple tools. allen wrenches for your headset/brakes/cranks. get some good lube for your cables and chain. and a nice pump.

also, I just learned after hours of cussing(:)) that derailers aren't that hard to work on or fix.

1. make sure your hanger isn't bent.
2. set limit screws to keep chain from going past the gears(low and high)
3. set tension on cable.
4. adjust tension with barrel adjusters.

lube the cables of course, that should be the first thing you do I think. then follow the steps.

just because someone works in a shop, doesn't mean they know HOW to work on bikes.

I own a Klein with Ultegra upgrades and being anal I noticed a slight "clicking" noise when my gears were to the extreme position (smallest in front to smallest in rear, or largest front to largest rear... Otherwise it shifted perfectly no skips, "clunks", perfect.

You shouldn't really run your chain in these positions, the chain angle is too great and your chain will rub on your front derailler cage. is that what was happening? if so, did you tell the people at REI that you were running that gear combo?

Don't do that and your noises will probably go away on their own. ;)

I own a Klein with Ultegra upgrades and being anal I noticed a slight "clicking" noise when my gears were to the extreme position (smallest in front to smallest in rear, or largest front to largest rear... Otherwise it shifted perfectly no skips, "clunks", perfect. I decided to spend a little money and get a tune-up just becuase I bought it used and put some miles on it.


A SLIGHT clicking noise when your in gear combinations your not supposed to be in? Shifts perfectly other than that so you decided to get a tune up? Wow.......

[QUOTE=jpdub]I own a Klein with Ultegra upgrades and being anal I noticed a slight "clicking" noise when my gears were to the extreme position (smallest in front to smallest in rear, or largest front to largest rear... Otherwise it shifted perfectly no skips, "clunks", perfect.QUOTE]

You shouldn't really run your chain in these positions, the chain angle is too great and your chain will rub on your front derailler cage. is that what was happening? if so, did you tell the people at REI that you were running that gear combo?

Don't do that and your noises will probably go away on their own. ;)

That was what was happenning at first. He mentioned that there are so many gears that overlap I shouldn't be running that combo. But, since I was there I asked them to do a tune-up anyway. That's when all my problems began........

That was what was happenning at first. He mentioned that there are so many gears that overlap I shouldn't be running that combo. But, since I was there I asked them to do a tune-up anyway. That's when all my problems began........


umm, so there were no problems before you took your bike to REI? Anyway, after a tune up you should not have any issues with the shifting. let the other mechanic check it out and fix the problem. Meanwhile, as was mentioned earlier, get a book or look online to learn how to do it yourself. You will be glad you did. :D

I like the head wrench at Bicyle Products located at Hazel Ave and Folsom Blvd in the Nimbus Winery.

This illustrates the pitfalls of adjusting bike shifting on the workstand where there is no torque in the
system and no movement of parts in relation to each other under the influence of pedalling pressure
and then riding the bike, under torque. A bike that shifts beautifully on the stand can go all wobbly
on you when it is ridden. Occasionally too if everything is loosened up then retightened the cable stop
may be mispositioned, then it pops into place under shift pressure and loosens the cable 1-3mm.
Good mechanics know this and go out and ride the bike to check it out. Steve

[QUOTE=Kid-Cycle]I like the head wrench at Bicyle Products located at Hazel Ave and Folsom Blvd in the Nimbus Winery.[/QUOTE

Got me. Usually head up from Goethe park to Bealls point, up one side down the other. I'll keep the Bicycle product guys in mind. Have a first name so I can make sure he woks on it and not someone else? Thinking about going to someone who sells Kliens. I think Bobs on Sunrise\Fair Oaks or Bicycle Works downtown. Probably doesn't make too much of a difference since a derailer is a derailer... Or maybe Performance on Sunrise?

The head wrench at Bicycle Products is Steve. He did the fine tuning on my Trek 5200 following the break-in (cable stretch) and it was flawless. He also gave me some tips on making my own adjustments and that has also worked well. I do most of my own wrenching and go to a good shop when I just can't seem to nail the fine tuning I'm seeking. Good Luck

The good mechanics are usually found at a LOCAL bike shop, not a chain like REI, Performance, Supergo, or Dick's.

I've heard the bicycle service managers at REI can make up to $90,000 and are basically team-level mechanics, so I'm kind of surprised to hear you had issues. However the hired goons may be $6/hr monkeys with wrenches.

An observation is that "team-level mechanics" work on and are intimately familiar with a limited selection of "team level bikes" (Record/Dura Ace, quality housing/cables, well prepped frames with properly aligned derailleur hangers, chains/chainwheels/cassettes in excellent condition, etc, all of which are kept very clean and well lubed; that are ridden by experienced cyclists who know their bikes and give good feedback to the mechanics). Having such a person may or may not be a positive for bike shops like REI's.

There's something to be said for the experienced mechanic who's a long term employee of a small shop that's been around for awhile and has seen a little bit of everything (Knows the art & science of bikes & what questions to ask and keeps up with what's happening). There's also something to be said about today's cyclists and their positives & negatives, but that's another rant...

True. A team mechanic works on maybe twenty very similar bikes. A mechanic at a busy local shop works on more than 2500 different bikes a year and usually needs to figure out what is wrong with limited input. Not only do we fix bikes but I have sleeved and rewelded racks, rewired scooters and can chat in a freindly fashion with my customers about all kinds of things(books, movies, kids, cars) I am envious of the local REI shop, it is great, but not so envious of the talent.

I think its safe to say that every team mechanic started out working at an LBS. I'm not saying in any way that these guys ARE team mechanics but that they posess the skills team mechanics do... speed, quality and guru-like knowledge of the bike. The team mechanics I have met (and I do work with a former GF mechanic) can assemble any pile of parts into a working bike in 30 min or less it seems.

jpdub,
I feel your pain. To make a long story short, I bought a new bike from Supergo. I could not use 8 of the 27 gears because of derailler rub. I did my own adjustments following recommendations on this forum and got to use four of the unusable gears. I adjusted everything else to fit me perfectly. Then I brought it back for my 30 day adjustment. They screwed everything up again, including brake levers and seat adjustment. (why did they even mess w/ the seat?) I came home and started from scratch again using instructions I found on this forum. It's not perfect, but I can use 24 of the 27 gears. Supergo frustrated the heck out of me. I hope I can continue to work on the bike myself from now on.

I'm really surprised to hear you were disappointed with the wrenching at REI. Was it the Sacramento REI near CalExpo or the new one out near Roseville?

I've been taking my Novara road bike to the Sacto REI for a number of years and have been extremely pleased with the service. Although I've heard that one of their mechanics left to take over the bike shop at another REI, so maybe that explains any drop off in service.

Really excellent work at the Bicycle Business on Freeport Blvd. That's where I take my "A" bike.

It's been said before, but bears repeating....
Don't bother trying to get smooth operation in all 27 gear combinations. I have a double, and do all of my riding in 14 of the 18 possible combos. With a triple you should only need 16 or so of the possible 27 gear combos.

The others are a lot of work, with minimal benefit....and they cause premature wear on you chain, cassette, and (to a far lesser extent) derailleur.

This illustrates the pitfalls of adjusting bike shifting on the workstand where there is no torque in the
system and no movement of parts in relation to each other under the influence of pedalling pressure
and then riding the bike, under torque. A bike that shifts beautifully on the stand can go all wobbly
on you when it is ridden. Occasionally too if everything is loosened up then retightened the cable stop
may be mispositioned, then it pops into place under shift pressure and loosens the cable 1-3mm.
Good mechanics know this and go out and ride the bike to check it out. Steve

sch, that's been my exact experience. Over many, many years of bicycle ownership and maintenance (which includes several complete builds from scratch) I've learned that very lesson. The repair stand is used for derailluer installation and initial setup. But what really helps is using the trainer for setting the rear while applying rear wheel drag. Plus you can easily mount the bike and actually check adjustments in a more "real" seting. Even then, I've occassionally had to stop a bike while on it's maiden voyage and perform a small tweek to the rear.

I've heard the bicycle service managers at REI can make up to $90,000 and are basically team-level mechanics, so I'm kind of surprised to hear you had issues. However the hired goons may be $6/hr monkeys with wrenches.

Huh? I don't think so.

I had the same sort of problem with my bike, from a reputable local bike shop. Took it in after a few months for them to tighten the cables and so on. It came back with the back brake way too tight (couldn't remove the wheel) and the derailleurs not working very well at all. I just loosened the brake cable and fiddled with the derailleurs screws to get it working. It's rather easy, and I'm glad I now know how.

I had the same sort of problem with my bike, from a reputable local bike shop. Took it in after a few months for them to tighten the cables and so on. It came back with the back brake way too tight (couldn't remove the wheel) and the derailleurs not working very well at all. I just loosened the brake cable and fiddled with the derailleurs screws to get it working. It's rather easy, and I'm glad I now know how.

out of curiousity, you sure they didn't do a good job? the back brake is supposed to be on tight enough so that the wheel can't come off. only way/reason wheel can come off is if the brake quick release is opened. otherwise, the brakes should be as close to the rim as possible, a few mm's at best, for a trued wheel, for best braking. same with the front wheel.

sd

I had the same problem after taking the bike back to Dick's for a tune-up. They had the front der limit screws set so that the chain wouldn't drop onto the lowest gear unless I was pedalling within a *very* narrow range of speed and torque. In other words, it wasn't working on the road.

They also adjusted the cables on the brakes so that I had to unscrew the front brake's adjuster almost as far as it will come out.

Even if you have a competent local mechanic and decide you want him/her to do most of your repairs and tuneups, it is to your advantage to know your way around the bike's transmission and braking system. When you do have a problem (either before or after servicing), you can intelligently describe your symptoms, to expedite proper repairs.

On a 3x9 setup, you should plan to use only the 6, perhaps 7, outer cogs with the outer ring and the 6 or 7 inner cogs with the inner ring, and perhaps the central 7 cogs with the center ring. This gives you 19 to 21 usable ratios, which is more than I have on any of my road bikes. Unless you have unusually (by today's standards) long chainstays and a very flexible chain, don't count on ever using either of the two inner cogs with the outer chainring. LIkewise, small-to-small is great for bike storage, but never for riding.

"I had the same problem after taking the bike back to Dick's for a tune-up."

This is not surprising. I got two brand new bikes, that came from Dicks, on the same day. The guy selling the bikes SENT the customers to us because they did not know how to set up the shock and fork, or even have a suspension pump to air them!

I've heard the bicycle service managers at REI can make up to $90,000 and are basically team-level mechanics, so I'm kind of surprised to hear you had issues. However the hired goons may be $6/hr monkeys with wrenches.

Yeah, right! Wherever did you hear that? I'd be surprised if they make 1/3 of that.

To me, a large part of the pleasure of having decent bicycles is developing the ability to perform all but the most major repairs and adjustments myself. When I was a kid, we could not afford to pay our lbs to fix my bike, so I learned to do it myself. When I bought my first adult bike about 30 years ago, I also bought an inexpensive, but detailed, manual. I have newer books now. I have better tools. If my lbs sees me bring in a bike, they know something bad is wrong.

Doc

You have to be able to adjust your gears yourself.

It's been said before, but bears repeating....
Don't bother trying to get smooth operation in all 27 gear combinations. I have a double, and do all of my riding in 14 of the 18 possible combos. With a triple you should only need 16 or so of the possible 27 gear combos.

The others are a lot of work, with minimal benefit....and they cause premature wear on you chain, cassette, and (to a far lesser extent) derailleur.


Huh?!? OK, maybe I don't regularly use *every single combination* out of the 27 available to me on my bike, but I certainly cycle through them on the way to my favorites (and yes, I'm not ashamed to kick it into 'full granny' :D ).

And of course, I'm not using 'big-ring-to-big-cog' -type combinations; is this what you are referring to?

I would have to conclude that with a well-lubricated drivetrain and a properly-adjusted der., the 'premature wear' would be negligable, at most.

definately learn to adjust your own derailers. It's not athat hard once you figure out what screw does what and how. sheldon brown's site (www.sheldonbrown.com) has tons of info on tuning derailers if you really don't feel like buying a book over this.

For a solid basic bike repair kit, have SAE and metric allen keys, small assortment of slotted and philips screwdrivers, channel-lock wrench, 6 and 8-inch crescent, and some good quality wire cutters and crimp tool. This wil be enough tools to do cabling, derailer adjustments, handlebar/seat/wheel/fork/misc hardware service. For headsets, BB, cranks, and a few other parts you might need a specialized tool for it, just buy those as you find a need for them. I'm currently rebuilding my toolbox as well...new tools of all kinds :)

out of curiousity, you sure they didn't do a good job? the back brake is supposed to be on tight enough so that the wheel can't come off. only way/reason wheel can come off is if the brake quick release is opened. otherwise, the brakes should be as close to the rim as possible, a few mm's at best, for a trued wheel, for best braking. same with the front wheel.

Actually, since it has been several months I have no idea. Of course you are right about the brake release. Perhaps the problem was that the wheel wasn't trued or didn't stay trued after leaving the shop. [Edit: I think actually that they changed the cantilever so the brake quick release didn't work, and I needed a wrench to loosen the cable to release the brake.] They did mess up the derailleurs, I am sure. I think I told them I was having problems shifting from third to second (had to double click to get the chain moving toward first, then before it fell into first click back into second). They adjusted it so it was completely impossible to move into first. On a perfectly flat road, no, on a downhill no, holding the bike with the rear wheel lifted, no. Of course not going up a hill.

Anyway, that was fairly easy to fix. The other derailleur problem was the rear derailleur had a problem going into lowest gear. This might have been normal and just my fault for not shifting into gear well before hitting a hill to give it time. They fixed it, but after the fix the chain could go off to far to the left, all the way off the gears. I am not sure exactly what the problem was, since it is harder to look back at the rear gear as I bike, but basically I could shift down to first and then I had to move up into second; the chain would then stay in first securely. This is harder than dealing with the front gears since I don't keep as good a track of which gear I am in in the back, so I would sometimes shift into first without realizing it, losing the chain shortly after. But I didn't take this too seriously since as long as I had some momentum I could shift back into second or third and the chain would get back into the gears. (Going up a hill slowly this wasn't possible, but then I would pay more attention to the gears.)

Anyway I should have fixed it. I was going down a hill, having downshifted at the top because at the bottom I have to turn and go up another reasonable slope. Halfway down the chain falls off the rear cogs, smashes the chain guard, wraps up around the axel and the rear wheel stops dead. Needless to say, I stop pretty quickly, with some fun skidding. Most of the spokes are knocked out or snapped on the one side. If I had been going faster down a hill where I had to turn, I might have been in trouble (of course it is just this one hill where I have to make a sharp turn and go up again, so generally that never could happen -- but perhaps on a dirt trail). In retrospect, I should have adjusted the rear derailleur myself to fix the problem, instead of just living with it.

Small-small and Big-big are always going to make chain rubbing noise. Nobody has been able to fix this problem.

Somebody needs to invent a better front derailleur to solve this problem.

i still think a more efficient internal hub would end this front shifting issues we have. Either that or use some type of expanding gear for the front, al-la honda's infinitely variable transmission they have been using in their cars for some time now (The bike one works totatlly differently, but it could be a replacement for all of it).