Commuting - Drinking and Riding?

For all of you who "go out" on your bikes:

Should drinking and riding be viewed as a preferred alternative to drinking and driving?

As for me, I avoid riding with drunk drivers at all costs. However, I do bike commute to the bars and nightclubs to meet friends, and after a few, I commute back home. I am very rarely slosh-bamm-drunk, but have ridden after sharing a couple of pitchers with the buddies at the local brew-pub. Surely there must be some statistics on this, and I'm sure I could benefit from being more educated in this topic.

Manderax
:beer: :confused:

From the California Vehicle code . . .

"21200.5. Notwithstanding Section 21200, it is unlawful for any
person to ride a bicycle upon a highway while under the influence of
an alcoholic beverage or any drug, or under the combined influence of
an alcoholic beverage and any drug. Any person arrested for a
violation of this section may request to have a chemical test made of
the person's blood, breath, or urine for the purpose of determining
the alcoholic or drug content of that person's blood pursuant to
Section 23612, and, if so requested, the arresting officer shall have
the test performed. A conviction of a violation of this section
shall be punished by a fine of not more than two hundred fifty
dollars ($250). Violations of this section are subject to Section
13202.5."

"Highway", by the way, includes streets.

Drunk cyclists are a danger to pedestrians and other cyclists, and can even be a danger to cars (though much less so). That said, you are probably more of a danger to yourself than anyone else.

Bike to the bar, walk back. Hell, if you aren't that drunk you'll probably sober up about half way through the walk.

andy

NEVER DRINK AND RIDE

because you spill it.

I suspect that those drunk cyclist you see wobbling back from the pub would ride like that sober.

My favourite pub (The Fat Cat, Nelson St, Norwich, Norfolk) has a bike stand for its customers. Another Norwich pub had a bike stand installed as a memorial to a cyclist/real ale drinker who recently passed away.
The cycle campaign group and real ale society seem to be interchangeable.

Ive seen one pub in London, frequented by couriers, which had a few score courier bikes locked up on multi-story rails around the pub.

Even the UKs foremost petrol-head idealogically-unsound car reviewer rides back from the pub by bike.

Riding whilst off your face on any mind-altering substance is just stupid as well as illegal.

Originally posted by aturley
From the California Vehicle code . . .

"A conviction of a violation of this section
shall be punished by a fine of not more than two hundred fifty
dollars ($250). Violations of this section are subject to Section
13202.5."



Not more than $250.00? No jail time? A mere slap-on-the-wrist when compared to driving. Heck, they are practically endorsing it as an alternative.

Walking would be best, but through the big city? At 1a.m.? Better have mace.

Basically forget about it. Just imagine if you got taken out by a driver while riding home drunk. I know who'd be viewed as the guilty party in that one.

I rode home 'falling down' drunk a few years ago. It was easier to ride than walk. Not too swift, but we do stupid things when we are teenagers and most of us survive.

That said, I would never do that again. I don't really drink anymore anyways so it's a non-issue now.

To answer your question, no I don't think that biking instead of driving drunk is morally 'better', even if it does endanger others less (note I said 'if').

Drinking and riding? Never concurrently, but sometimes consecutively. Given the choice between driving or riding home from the pub, I'd advise riding any day. Like always, though, ride according to prevailing conditions, ie. go slower and be more cautious. If you get to the point of drunkeness where caution is thrown to the wind, get a cab (even walking probably isn't advisable under those conditions).

I heard that drinking messes up your balance enough to affect your riding. But whadda I know - I'm a teatotaler. I've never had a problem riding after a nice spot of tea.

Originally posted by manderax

Not more than $250.00? No jail time? A mere slap-on-the-wrist when compared to driving.

Seems reasonable. A non-sober cyclist will probably be the victim of his indiscretions. Often not the case with a non-sober motorist.

If you're too whacked to bike then get a cab and tell em on the phone that you've got a large package (NO, I don't mean that !!), and they will send a van or something, some of those dudes up in the north shore of B.C , ride stoned ... yeah thats right after smokin' the sticky green ... and look at the **** they do.... lol...what ever floats your boat !!!:D

I have only ridden while drunk once, but I think it was good enough to make up for all the times that I haven't.

About six months ago, my friend Tyler and I were at a party at the home of a third friend. During the course of this party, both Tyler and I had sampled a great number of choice malt based beverages. That evening I also had the pleasure of introducing Tyler to another guest at the party, on Mr. Jack Daniels; the three of us were to become good friends over the next several hours.

At about two in the morning we decided that it was time to leave. We were going back to Tyler's apartment, about two miles down the same street, which happened to be the main drag on campus. We had had the foresight to ride our bikes (when I say bike, I should point out that I was riding an old Huffy kid's bike that I probably outgrew when I was ten), though we were a little worried about riding home. Our concerns were set aside as soon as we left though, because only a few steps from the front door, I somehow managed to trip over the bike and land in a crumpled heap in the front yard. I became tangled in the bike and unable to stand, though it didn't really matter, as my histerical laughter rendered me fairly immoble anyway. Upon witnessing this, Tyler doubled over laughing and fell on top of me and the bike. This, of course, made the situation worse, and we stayed on the ground for several minutes pointing at eachother and laughing like monkeys. Eventually we realized that most of the other party guest were watching us by this time, that we were probably embarassing ourselves, and that the time to bow out gracefully and long since passed us by.

We were assisted on to our bikes by people that I am now certain were sure we would kill ourselves on the way home and began our journey. As the traffic was fairly sparse and I was confident in my ability to not die, I began weaving across the four lanes of one way traffic. Tyler was not impressed, and he attempted to rescue me from myself. I stopped to taunt him, he didn't, and this caused a minor pile-up in the middle of the road. I tell you, there is nothing like lying in the street watching a truck drive towards you to sober you up in a hurry.

We forgot our little brush with death rather quickly though, because we were soon whooping it up with great gusto once more. When we passed fraternity row, we were taunted and jeered at. We responded with Shakespeare. Loud, drunken Shakespeare. I still don't understand it, but at the time we thought it was very funny.

The remainder of the ride is a little blurry, but we apparently made it home alive. We celebrated by falling into a dead sleep on the floor. It was all great fun, though I think it may be a while before I am willing to try it again.

Originally posted by Buddy Hayden
If you're too whacked to bike then get a cab and tell em on the phone that you've got a large package (NO, I don't mean that !!),

Whatever could you mean, Buddy? I had a sheltered childhood in Werris Creek, you know.

I can imaging Lightboys ride, it still happens to me sometimes and i don`t mind it .
Its so funny to ride your cycle when had a few drinks, especially with others
Have you tried to follow this white marks on the cyclepath, after a pubtour..........:D :D :D

I limit myself to a pint and a half, from experience I know I start getting sleepy after two of a lunchtime. I'm also lucky in that it's a very quiet private lane almost all the way to the pub.

Richard

Originally posted by Richard D
I limit myself to a pint and a half, from experience I know I start getting sleepy after two of a lunchtime. I'm also lucky in that it's a very quiet private lane almost all the way to the pub.

Richard

When I lived i Dublin I ALWAYS walked to the pub. After closing I staggered home with a stop by the chipper for a smoked cod and a single which was duly consumed en route.

Maybe there's no chipper on your way home.

Drinking anc cycling is a dangerous game...
r
:beer:
:beer:

Originally posted by Harry


When I lived i Dublin I ALWAYS walked to the pub. After closing I staggered home with a stop by the chipper for a smoked cod and a single which was duly consumed en route.
Maybe there's no chipper on your way home.
Drinking anc cycling is a dangerous game...


What is a single ?
a portion of chips (US fries)??

Originally posted by MichaelW


What is a single ?
a portion of chips (US fries)??

Correct!

Great after a few pints of Guinness...

Originally posted by Harry

Drinking anc cycling is a dangerous game...

:beer:
:beer:

Yes i agree, but late at night there`s almost no traffic on the cyclepath, so the only danger is to fall from your cycle, or hit a curbstone
And off course you`re sober at home! :D

I`ve thought about it, and i still agree that its not the most safe way to travel from pub or party, but its a lot safer than drink and step into your car.
Last night in the youthcentre (i work there) a lot of girls and boys did go by cycle to a party 7 miles further.
The point is; i`m glad they don`t take the car but cycle home with some friends!

Originally posted by toolfreak


Yes i agree, but late at night there`s almost no traffic on the cyclepath, so the only danger is to fall from your cycle, or hit a curbstone
And off course you`re sober at home! :D

It also depends on what you are drinking.

Do your lot go in for that horrid scrumpy stuff?

Jokes aside, you never can tell what injuries you could sustain from a fall in an enebriated state! We tend to become more courageous under the influence.

You can sing silly songs whilst staggering towards the chipper.

Yesterday, before daylight, I met a friend for a ride in a part of town where all the bars are and I was amazed at how may bikes had been left from the night before. Some of the bikes were way too nice to have been there, but it was probably the sane thing to have done at the time.

Take a cab.

I was genuinly taken by the amount of barf I saw all around.

Originally posted by manderax
For all of you who "go out" on your bikes:

Should drinking and riding be viewed as a preferred alternative to drinking and driving?
Driving while intoxicated is an absolute no.

Cycling while intoxicated is something I wouldn't do, especially in the dark. I'd hate to damage my bike! :eek:

Walking while intoxicated might be the only way to get sober!

If you're that drunk get a cab. I mean, what's the cost of that to someone who's gonna spend $40 on booze anyway?

:confused:

I don't like drinking and riding. Having a head spin and jumping doesn't feel to good.

Oh dear. I'm such a bad person.

In my younger days (probably not entirely legal yet, actually), I've cycled home when I've been too drunk to walk. It feels like flying! :D It was only a couple of miles.

In my more recent uni days, everywhere was close enough to walk to on a night out. Of course, I have cycled next morning whilst still drunk. And only fallen off once.

These days I generally only have a couple of pints anyway. I feel too bad next day to really enjoy any more (and I'm a skinny runt, so it goes straight to my head). And yes, I will still cycle to the pub, and cycle back again too. Walking takes too long.

Actually, you can get a criminal record for being drunk in charge of a bike. But around here they generally only look for that if you're cycling in one of the villages around midnight, because it's pretty blatant that you've only cycled because you wanted to drink.

Ellie

Originally posted by Harry
a stop by the chipper for a smoked cod and a single

Help a poor ethnocentric yank!

So, what's a chipper? Is smoked cod fast food in Ireland?

My neighbor had a Christmas party with his fellow wine shop employees. They sampled some of the product and had a wonderful time. As he was biking home in an enlightened state, he fell off the bike. So at 2AM his flatmate came banging on my window because she couldn't talk him into going to the hospital for the gaping wound on his head. I think the looks of horror in my girlfriend and my eyes convinced him that he needed to go. The point is that sometimes other people do have to put up with the consequences of your decision to ride drunk.

Then again, I guess it is kind of a funny story. You win some, you lose some.

andy

Ive ridden in a car with a driver who was falling-over drunk. It was 3:00 am on a deserted road on the Olympic peninsular, Washington, after a climbing trip. We needed to get to a campsite a few miles away, but were sensible enough to know we were drunk, so drove at 5mph in a pretty good straight line.
We got to the campsite without incident, but were too drunk to assemble the tent.

I know its not big, and its not clever, but I think I have done more dangerous and scary things than that.

This is like true confessions. :lol:

Out walking today, I saw a guy riding a department-store bike down the street while drinking out of a paper sack.

I didn't get a chance to ask him to respond to this poll, however.

:beer:

Watch out with CUI. In some states it's the same crime as driving a motor vehicle while under the influence.

In my draconian state, for example, the law prohibits operating a "vehicle", as opposed to a "motor vehicle", while under the influence, _or_ with alcohol to blood/breath/urine ratios above a certain amount. (These are two different offenses. Get caught drinking while operating a vehicle and you'll be charged with two crimes. A lot of other states are like this, too.) Here, bikes aren't vehicles, but riders have all of the "rights and responsibilities" of operators of vehicles. The courts have settled the specific issue of CUI, too-- mounted cyclists are criminally liable just as motor vehicle drivers are for operating under the influence. I know for sure cyclists here have been convicted under the DUI statute.

I strongly suspect that cyclists can proudly count themselves on a par with drivers of vehicles in another important respect, too: our driver's licenses are contingent on our "consent" to our choice of blood/urine/breath tests should the constabulary decide we seem intoxicated. In other words, refuse to take these tests, even on a _bicycle_, and your driver's license could be forfeit for a year. (This, of course, is independent of whatever penalties you might suffer should you end up being convicted of DUI anyway.) I don't know of case in which a cyclist lost his license for refusing these requested tests, but from the precendents in other CUI cases that's what I think would happen.

Of course, losing a license is not quite the same punishment for a cyclist as for a motorist. Interestingly, even the sentencing schedule for DUI calls only for longer and longer license suspensions, as opposed to prohibitions on vehicle operation on public roads. So, at least in principle, even multiple convictions for CUI wouldn't affect your ability to cycle on public roads. Convictions would, though, land you in the joint as well as costing you an arm and a leg. And a judge might order you to stop riding anyway.

If you really want to get drunk, what you ought to do in my state is ride a horse, or a horse-drawn carriage. You can be passed out drunk on these conveyances and there is no per se crime. Yes, you could be charged with being drunk in public, or various traffic offenses, but these are a much smaller deal than driving drunk.

But, anyway, my guess is that you enjoy one practical advantage cycling drunk instead of driving. Cops are less likely to arrest you. You've probably got a decent chance of just receiving an order to walk home. This, too, is just a guess, and in my own case just a theoretical concern anyway, but there it is.

The last state I lived in also didn't distinguish between cyclists and motorists with respect to DUI. Yet, I was never asked to stop at the DUI checkpoints I would sometimes encounter. The cops just ignored me. I don't think the troopers even knew it was a crime to cycle while drunk. (Of course, if I _had_ been stopped, I would just have turned around the next time I saw a roadblock and taken another route home, or just walked off of the street for a ways and then remounted. Another advantage of cycling as opposed to driving...) I would have pretty ticked off if they did stop me, but what could I have done but comply?

Which makes me curious: anyone here been _stopped_ at a DUI checkpoint on your rig?

Also, while I'm on the subject, I do know of a case a few years ago in Washington State in which a cyclist appealed a CUI conviction all the way the State Supreme Court. He won. In Washington, the relevant statutes contain "motor vehicle" at crucial points, though they just refer to "vehicles" at other points. The S.C. ruled, correctly, that this ambiguity in the law had to be resolved in the way favorable to the defendant. So, as far as I know, it's not a crime to cycle while drunk in Washington. At least, that's how it was a few years ago. Perhaps the legislature acted quickly to close this "loophole" after the case was resolved.

In my state (New York), horse-drawn carriages are included in the DWI statute, as well as bikes. Glad thing, too, since occasionally even the local Amish over-indulge and then hit the road. If a carriage driver is either drunk or unconcious, the horse will head home, but won't stop at intersections.
I guess what disturbs me most about your post is the way you seem to feel that it's acceptable to be operating anything when you are intoxicated. This is totally unacceptable, juvenile behaviour. If you are too d@mn drunk to walk, then sleep it off!
Yesterday, I happened to observe an intoxicated man on a bike, using the local multi-use path. It was bad enough that he was drunk, and that he was riding one-handed, with a beer can in the other hand, but he nearly ran over a small child while weaving his way through people. Eventually, he did a face-plant in the grass along the road, and I gladly joined in the laughter at his misfortune.

Originally posted by D*Alex
I guess what disturbs me most about your post is the way you seem to feel that it's acceptable to be operating anything when you are intoxicated. This is totally unacceptable, juvenile behaviour. If you are too d@mn drunk to walk, then sleep it off!


D*Alex,

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I share your attitude about riding while drunk, no question about it.

I was just making some points about what the law says.

I should add that I think it unduly harsh for cycling while drunk to be punished as severely as DUI, but it isn't the greatest injustice i can think of. And I don't like the fact that you'd lose your license for refusing to consent to blood/urine/breath tests on a vehicle for which licensing is not required. Why not make it a condition of the "driving privilege" that you'll submit to searches of your house, etc.? But nonetheless, given that the cost of avoiding these problems is simply avoiding riding while drunk I don't think this is any big deal.


Cheers,

If a person is so irresponsible to operate any vehicle-tricycles included-while drunk, he shouldn't be allowed to operate a car. Give an alcoholic just one reason why he shouldn't be riding the bike, and sure as $h!t, he'll drive. Operating a vehicle while intoxicated shows poor judgement, regardless of the vehicle being operated. I actually think that people who are publically itoxicated should also have their driving privleges revoked. Furthermore, "conditional licenses" should never be given to anybody who has a DWI.

Originally posted by D*Alex
If you are too d@mn drunk to walk, then sleep it off!


I agree 100 times over. If somebody wants to ride/drive home, they simply should refrain from drinking. If somebody wants to drink, they should make other arrangements. It's not difficult people.

Pissed on a bike or pissed in a car.

In a car you are a danger to everyone, on a bike you are only a danger to yourself.

Hence whilst the police may take a very dim view of driving a bike whilst being incapable of standing up, I don't think it is technically illegal in this country

Originally posted by Brains
Pissed on a bike or pissed in a car.

In a car you are a danger to everyone, on a bike you are only a danger to yourself.

... And your a danger to even fewer people pissed in the back seat of a cab.

I was reminded of a certain fellow I know who likes to imbibe large amounts of alcohol and because he drove his car into a house and lost his license now only bikes. Of course he bikes home totally sloshed--but only when he can't scam a ride.

One night he rode his bike at a high rate of speed into the back of a parked conversion van that he couldn't see because of oncoming headlights. Naturally it was probably hard for him to figure out which image to steer around. His head went through the back window and the glass slit his throat. The oncoming driver stopped and administered first aid and a cop got there quickly. Fortunately they were able to control the blood loss and he lived. The cop said if he hadn't been so drunk he would have bled to death--the alcohol somehow slowed his blood flow or his heart rate or something. Now he has a nice scar across his throat which he is proud of.

Another time he says he drunk drove his bicycle at about 30 mph down a long hill. Unfortunately he forgot the road "T"ed at the bottom. So instead of making a 90 degree turn left or right, he slammed into the curb straight on. I think he just landed in the mud.

The bad news is he just got his drivers license back.

There was also a guy here who drunk drove his bike into a tree and died of head injuries. I guess he hit the curb and fell into the tree. Heck, some people should wear helmets when they WALK!

I guess the advantage to riding and drinking is not as many people are in serious danger. A bike won't do any damage copared to a car.

Originally posted by Oxymoron
Fortunately they were able to control the blood loss and he lived. The cop said if he hadn't been so drunk he would have bled to death--the alcohol somehow slowed his blood flow or his heart rate or something.

Probably the only benefit of the alcohol is that is caused him to be in such a stupor that he didn't fight with the people trying to help him.

Emergency Rule #1: All bleeding eventually stops.

Originally posted by manderax




Not more than $250.00? No jail time? A mere slap-on-the-wrist when compared to driving. Heck, they are practically endorsing it as an alternative.

That's not a bad thing; it's quite a bit harder to murder people whilst riding drunk than it is to while driving drunk. It's still irresponsible, but nowhere near as dangerous.

Whilst stationed here in Germany, I got called to an RTA (Road Traffic Accident) just outside of the camp. It involved two cyclists. It was dark, both had no lights and both were travelling on the cycle path alongside a dark stretch of road running through a forest. Unfortunately, one was travelling the wrong way up the cycle path and because no lights were used, they both collided head-first into each other. One survived with heavy facial injuries, the other died a few hours later in hospital.

I kept thinking at the time, how could anyone die in that sort of accident? But it happens people. Oh by the way, both were sober.

ok, while i agree that cycling while intoxicated is not the smartest thing to do and it is possible that you could injure someone else, for the most part you are only endangering yourself...

thus, there is absolutely no comparison between driving a car while drunk (which is a horribly bad unsafe act and socially wrong) and cycling while drunk (which is basically kind of dumb)

back in college i rode my bike while over the legally drunk level but still pretty in control maybe 10 times...

once i was so drunk i could hardly walk and cycling was like flying... it was late at night (maybe 3am) so the streets were deserted and i would be riding along and then notice "hm, my legs won't move" and then realize it was because i was lying on the ground... and then my eyes would focus and i could see i was lying face first on the pavement... i think i fell maybe 10 times in about 1 mile home and ruined my jeans and skinned my hands a little. i rode slowly and sure, i could have hurt myself worse, but compared to my many drunk buds who were piloting huge steel cages around and endangering other people (or riding with such people), i consider what i did comparatively safe... (as far as endangering yourself, people frequently injure themselves quite severly walking drunk and tripping or whatever --- it's the getting sloshed that really creates most of the danger --- but then driving a car extends the danger to other people) -- i think my biggest real danger as a drunk cyclist was danger from the drunk auto drivers... (and yes, if sober i could better avoid those guys too)

not seeing a stop sign or a curve on a bike is dangerous to the cyclist, but not seeing a stop sign or a curve in a car often results in a car in a living room or a few people being run over...

drunk auto drivers kill hundreds of people per year... how many people are killed by drunk cyclists? it's just simply not in the same league of danger or 'social wrong'

in my teen crazy years i only drove a car once while kind-of drunk (2am in the country but it was stupid anyway) and maybe twice while near the legal level AND i will NEVER drive a car drunk again - but even now if i were not totally sloshed and the distance were short, i would not rule out cycling... (i drink rather infrequently these days and to excess maybe only once a year so it's pretty unlikely)

kinda off-topic, but what the heck...

one day i was driving on the highway in baltimore, and this guy that's stoned is riding in the middle of the highway in the WRONG direction toward my car.... I was far enough away from him to be safe, but that was one of the most bizzarre things I've ever seen LOL

Originally posted by deliriou5
one day i was driving on the highway in baltimore, and this guy that's stoned is riding in the middle of the highway in the WRONG direction toward my car.... I was far enough away from him to be safe, but that was one of the most bizzarre things I've ever seen LOL


Hey! I wasn't stoned! I thought you were a spaceship...