Professional Cycling For the Fans - Lance vs. other super-domestiques in the Giro?

Hiya. I'm not a seasoned race watcher, and wasn't able to find/follow any real coverage of this year's Giro. It's incredible, the normal line is that people only watch TDF because of Lance, but then when he's in the Giro nobody seems to know about it. Seems like if news about him isn't on the subject of roid accusations, the TDF, or banging a model or rock star, it just doesn't make it into the mainstream.

Anyhow, it's my understanding that Lance was acting as a super-domestique in the Giro, supporting Levi, and coming in 12th. What was his role as a domestique? Was he just doing stuff like leading to provide slipstream, setting pace, and so forth, or did he also do the more mundane stuff like running back to the support car for water etc.?

And how does his 12th place finish compared to other domestiques? I would assume that in general at least the top 10 positions would be held by lead riders - a 12th by a domestique seems high to me, but I don't have much of a context to put it into.

Thanks.

As domestique, I know at one point he was bringing water from the support car.

12th by a domestique seems high to me, but I don't have much of a context to put it into.


Lance did very well at the Giro and after the ITT many believe he was stronger than Levi. I'm not sure he was a "super domestic" the whole race, as sometimes he pushed and others supported him. Your question is a good one though and I wondered about this too, but win Liquigas instead of Astana. They had two guys in pretty solid GC form and I wonder how they decided who's basket to put the eggs in. I am learning about the sport too and the more I pay attention the more complex it gets.

Only noticed Lance as domestique 1 time in the Giro TV coverage. He must like Coca Cola since he kept both cans for himself and handed out water to team. Come to think of it, maybe that's why he did it--so he could get first pick.

Lance took some big pulls and paced Levi up several climbs. Whether he did more water bottle schlepping would be hard to know since that function isn't often a feature of the coverage, but that certainly wasn't his primary responsibility.

Besides, don't make the mistake of calling every team member that isn't the team leader a "domestique". I prefer Phil's term "lieutenant". Properly, there are team roles handed out daily, and a team member may play several different roles during the race. The lieutenants generally are responsible for taking care of the leader. The understanding is that they have to be able to ride as well as he does the whole day, and if the worst happens, take over for him as leader. A really strong lieutenant *should* finish high in the standings, but guys that strong usually get hired away by other teams. ;)

Anyhow, it's my understanding that Lance was acting as a super-domestique in the Giro, supporting Levi, and coming in 12th. What was his role as a domestique? Was he just doing stuff like leading to provide slipstream, setting pace, and so forth, or did he also do the more mundane stuff like running back to the support car for water etc.?

And how does his 12th place finish compared to other domestiques? I would assume that in general at least the top 10 positions would be held by lead riders - a 12th by a domestique seems high to me, but I don't have much of a context to put it into.

Thanks.

I watched nearly every stage of the race and it seemed to me that Lance at one time or another carried out nearly every domestique function during this race. He ran bottles, set paced for the peloton periodically and pulled up hills for Levi. He also got much stronger during the race. Popo finished 15th just a couple of placed behind and nearly took one hard stage on a long breakaway. I'd say Lance really earned his dues in this Giro. Weather he is as good as domestique as Popo?. I don't know. In my opinion Popo is one of the greatest domestiques in modern cycling history. But given Armstrong's condition coming into the race I would say that he performed very well as a super-domestique.

Lance didnt do any of that. He just rode the best he could. Ovbiously he would have left Levi behind if he was doing well on a day.

If he did any "domestique" work it was for putting on a show for the TV cameras. This is Lance we are talking about, think people.

Hiya. I'm not a seasoned race watcher, and wasn't able to find/follow any real coverage of this year's Giro. It's incredible, the normal line is that people only watch TDF because of Lance, but then when he's in the Giro nobody seems to know about it. Seems like if news about him isn't on the subject of roid accusations, the TDF, or banging a model or rock star, it just doesn't make it into the mainstream.

Anyhow, it's my understanding that Lance was acting as a super-domestique in the Giro, supporting Levi, and coming in 12th. What was his role as a domestique? Was he just doing stuff like leading to provide slipstream, setting pace, and so forth, or did he also do the more mundane stuff like running back to the support car for water etc.?

And how does his 12th place finish compared to other domestiques? I would assume that in general at least the top 10 positions would be held by lead riders - a 12th by a domestique seems high to me, but I don't have much of a context to put it into.

Thanks.


I read about the Giro and Lance in several different mainstream newspapers. I also watched the entire race online. Some people watched the race on TV on Universal Sports. I do not think the problem was that the coverage was not out there but that you somehow just missed it.

Lance didnt do any of that. He just rode the best he could. Ovbiously he would have left Levi behind if he was doing well on a day.

If he did any "domestique" work it was for putting on a show for the TV cameras. This is Lance we are talking about, think people.

Wow, you're not biased or anything, are you?

Oh, as an FYI... all sports are entertainment. So you're claiming a guy puts on a good show, and faulting him for it at the same time?

Wow, you're not biased or anything, are you?

If your asking me if I dont like Lance, then the answer is yes. He's a prick, which nobody denies, but I cant look past that like others who do like him even if he won the Tour for that many number of times.
Secondly, one day the truth will come out about his water bottle. Not going to get into that though.

I guess we are on the same page then, he puts on a show for the cameras, i just think he does it in a slimy way thats all.

Getting back on track with this thread, the whole domestique thing, did you see how he was "looking back" for Levi? He was really really, really over exagerating that, what a slime-bag

And how does his 12th place finish compared to other domestiques? I would assume that in general at least the top 10 positions would be held by lead riders - a 12th by a domestique seems high to me, but I don't have much of a context to put it into.

Thanks.

Good but far from exceptional. Several have finished as high as second. A few who started as a domestique have won. Heck there is even one American who finished 4th in the TDF when he was a domestique and 3 placed on his (French) team. That one has a rather surprising bit in it. Sorry I'm not looking up names and numbers today, But his team was split along nationalistic lines. On one stage he was totally spent, he had given his all helping Lemond and had blown up and was off the back. He figured his place in hte standing would fall like a stone, but then he unexpectedly sees 2 of the French riders on hte team dropping back to help him. He later thanked them and mentioned he hoped it did not cause any trouble for them. They replied something like 'Are you crazy, you are in 4th place that is 75,000 francs.'

Since it seems there are some new readers, then as now prize money is usually split among the entire team. For overall places often evenly. In the TDF often winners do not take a share as they get far more in appearance money later.


Andy Hampsten

This is all very interesting and helpful - thanks a lot for the info!

In my opinion Popo is one of the greatest domestiques in modern cycling history. But given Armstrong's condition coming into the race I would say that he performed very well as a super-domestique.

Did you watch the 2008 TdF, specifically the periods where Mr. Evans was riding mountains w/o any team members nearby ? If so, how can you really say Popo is so great?

Did you watch the 2008 TdF, specifically the periods where Mr. Evans was riding mountains w/o any team members nearby ? If so, how can you really say Popo is so great?

Popo definitely wasn't at his best in the 2008 Tour. It didn't help that he was the only other rider on the squad with serious climbing chops, so he was expected to be Cadel's Lieutenant day after day after day. Pacing your man up 3 - 4 category 2, 1 and HC climbs in a single stage is asking a lot. Asking him to do it on every mountain stage is unrealistic. When in the Discovery/Astana environment, he has excelled as a domestique. I know what Reid's take on this will be, but having another rider or two to share the load over the course of a Grand Tour allows him to be quite effective on his designated days.

Getting back on track with this thread, the whole domestique thing, did you see how he was "looking back" for Levi? He was really really, really over exagerating that, what a slime-bag

Yeah, and did you see how, when he was pace-setting, he made sure the cameras saw that he was IN FRONT of Levi? Seriously, what a jerk...

^ yeah and WTF is up with wearing those sunglasses when it's partly cloudy??? are you too COOL for us, Lance? tool...

Did you watch the 2008 TdF, specifically the periods where Mr. Evans was riding mountains w/o any team members nearby ? If so, how can you really say Popo is so great?

It's true Popo did not do much in 2008. But there can be other causes. He has finished in the top 10 of GC in the TDF on several occasions while acting as a domestique. I know of no other domestique in recent years who has done this.