Bicycle Mechanics - How important is cable quality?

I'm building a new bike and was wondering which cables and housings I should get. Are more expensive cables really significantly better than cheaper cables? This is going to be a city bike primarily, so I don't need anything too fancy, but obviously I would like the shifters and brakes to work well. I am using LX shifters/levers, LX V-brakes, LX front and XT rear derailleurs (all are 5 year old used components except the brakes). Also, how important is it to use bike specific cable cutters like the Park CN-10? Can I get by with some regular wire cutters or perhaps electrical wire cutters?

No, the coatings on all these high zoot cables is a gimmick that wears off after less than a month. For what you spend on high end cables and housing I can replace my cables AND housing 4-5x. Cables get old, slide out the old one, hit the housings with a shot of GT85 and slide a new $1.99 cable in. Cable stretch? Pre stretch your cables. One of my bikes came with the Avid Flakjacket housings and wires and I've found the $1.99 stainless wires to show absolutely 0 performance difference.

To improve the longevity of your cables, I usually wipe down the exposed bare cable with a rag that has GT85 or Boeshield on it... it leaves some sort of a protective coating to help prevent corrosion, and helps keep them clean. Oh also use 5mm typically for best performance.

You can't use regular wire cutters, it will mangle the ends and won't cut cleanly. I prefer the Pedros (cheaper too) cutter to the Park but both are good.

Thanks, Seely. That's exactly the info I'm looking for. I suspected there wouldn't be a significant performance difference in cables, but I have never done any comparisons. I guess I can get the inexpensive cables and use the money saved to buy some cutters.

You can't use regular wire cutters, it will mangle the ends and won't cut cleanly. I prefer the Pedros (cheaper too) cutter to the Park but both are good.
I haven't sprung for the good cutters yet, because they are pricey. But I do agree that clean cuts on both the cables and the housings are significant.

I use a Dremel cut off wheel to make the cuts and smooth the ends of the housing.

Cable stretch? Pre stretch your cables. How, pray tell?

How, pray tell?

why with a "fourth hand cable stretcher with lockring ratchet" (BT-2) from Park tools of course

How, pray tell?
I think he's talking about pulling on the cables by hand after they have been installed and before final tensioning and adustments. (It's covered on p. 32-18 and 33-16 of Barnett's manual).

How, pray tell?


Just yank on them once they are installed a few times, like if they run across the top tube pull there or wherever enough bare cable is exposed. It works well, because if I dial in a derailleur and then do this, the shifting is always sloppy w/ new cables.

why with a "fourth hand cable stretcher with lockring ratchet" (BT-2) from Park tools of course

You mean a zip tie puller? :p Actually they are good for brake adjustments too but nearly useless for derailleur cables... a pair of pliers does the same thing for a derailleur... you don't need THAT much tension.

The idea is to prestretch the cables before setting the tension so that you don't have to constantly adjust the derailleur as the cable stretches in. On well made steel and aluminum bikes I just grab the cable where it runs along the down tube and pull. Can't do this on carbon bikes or cheap bikes as you can pull off or break the housing stop. On my own bike I just get used to trimming the derailleur for a bit after replacing the cables.

-s

What people are calling stretching the cables is a misnomer. Steel cables don't really stretch in any meaningful way. What happens is that the housings compress a little and more importantly the ends seat themselves in the cable stops.

Just a nit to pick.

You mean a zip tie puller?

I thought I was the only one who did that :D Nothing cranks a zip tie down like that tool.

save your money and get a pair of cheap wire cutters; i've never had a problem useing them to cut the cables. its knowing how to cut aswell

save your money and get a pair of cheap wire cutters; i've never had a problem useing them to cut the cables. its knowing how to cut aswell

Cheep cutters do okay on the cables, but the good bike specific ones also do well on the housings. That's where I find it hard to get a clean cut with regular wire cutters.

Cheep cutters do okay on the cables, but the good bike specific ones also do well on the housings. That's where I find it hard to get a clean cut with regular wire cutters.
Definitely. Cheap cutters are more likely to "smash" the cable into a line-like end rather than retaining a circular shape. If you will be putting one of those caps on the end of the cable and don't expect to play with it, cutters are fine in my book. However, the advantage of a clean cut is that it fits better into housing if you need to remove the cable, and is less likely to fray. BTW, I always put a dab of superglue on the end of my cable to prevent fraying.

I'd be curious to hear someone stand up for higher-end cables. My g/f has kevlar housings and those smooth stainless steel brake cables, and they work great. I've tried teflon-coated cables, and they just seem thicker (thus more resistance) and tend to flake off in the housing. Yuck.

Definitely. Cheap cutters are more likely to "smash" the cable into a line-like end rather than retaining a circular shape. If you will be putting one of those caps on the end of the cable and don't expect to play with it, cutters are fine in my book. However, the advantage of a clean cut is that it fits better into housing if you need to remove the cable, and is less likely to fray. BTW, I always put a dab of superglue on the end of my cable to prevent fraying.

I'd be curious to hear someone stand up for higher-end cables. My g/f has Kevlar housings and those smooth stainless steel brake cables, and they work great. I've tried Teflon-coated cables, and they just seem thicker (thus more resistance) and tend to flake off in the housing. Yuck.
I'll stick up for the Teflon cables. I've used them exclusively for the last couple of years and haven't had one flake yet. I've used Nervz, Alligators, Gore-Ride On and XTR's in various applications. When used with a Teflon housing such as Nervz or Jagwire they are far superior to ordinary cables. When used in a "normal" housing or especially one that has been poorly prepared (see left picture)
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/cable-cuts.gif the Teflon cables are usually abraded to the point where they are ordinary cables again. On the flip side using plain cables in Teflon housing works quite well, but again not as well as a Teflon / Teflon system due to the slightly rougher surface of the plain cable. The worst combo I've tried was a plain cable in regular housing. Without a lubricant this combo is prone to rough operation and even sometimes with a lubricant. In the case of some triathletes bikes I've worked on the plain / regular set was more prone to rusting together than any other combo I'll grant you that triathletes, in my experience, take really sh1tty care of their bikes but I've serviced the same bikes months after the Teflon / Teflon conversion and the cables still performed flawlessly. I've tried many different systems on customers bikes and I still have to say that I prefer a Teflon / Teflon combination for my bikes.

Yep! Raiyn is correct. Regualr housing and regular cables are garbage as far as feel and performance in comparison to teflon/teflon. I as well have experimented with Ride On, XT, Delta, etc. I have found that teflon or slick cables and teflon lined housing is the way to go. There is no need to lube this setup, and if it wears out then so what it is just cables and housing. All moving parts wear out eventually, especially in todays throw away society.

Yep! Raiyn is correct. Regualr housing and regular cables are garbage as far as feel and performance in comparison to teflon/teflon. I as well have experimented with Ride On, XT, Delta, etc. I have found that teflon or slick cables and teflon lined housing is the way to go. There is no need to lube this setup, and if it wears out then so what it is just cables and housing. All moving parts wear out eventually, especially in todays throw away society.
Why'd we ever fight? We seem to agree on so many things now. :beer:

It is in the past now, lets move on.

can GT85 be used as a cable lubricant? Its the only thing I have handy today as bike shops are closed.

I think that it probably is worth spending a little bit extra on higher quality cables. Not THAT much more, but maybe a little.
With regard to cutters, I've used regular wire cutters for ages without problems, but I've also used proper cable cutters. They are (obviously) better, but in my opinion, are not a requirement. Buy them if you have the money, otherwise don't worry about it.
GT85 is fine for cable lubricant. Spray it down the inside of the outers, and over the exposed cables.
Cheers

The problem is keeping the grit out. You can get a set of Avid Flakjacket cables for $19. They are well worth it on a mountain bike but for a city bike probably a liitle overkill. I use the Flakjacket shifter cables and they stay crisp after wet muddy rides. I use the XTR brake cables you can get them for $14. That includes everything you need to do a good cable job.

Anybody had luck with the boot-like housing ends ends?

Am I a idiot that uses ordinary fine oil that I squirt down the housings before I install the cables? Will I encounter any problem in the future? (Just did this on a rebuilt MTB).

For an anyweather bike that you ride a lot, I think it is worthwhile to look for stainless steel cables,
especially for the brakes. You really don't want a brake cable rusting covertly and snapping toward
the end of some downhill in traffic a year or so down the road. Cost difference between SS and
other cables is small (Dura Ace are stainless IIRC). Broken der cable is annoying but much less risky
from safety POV. Had an Ultegra rear brake cable rust just under the seat, discovered inadvertently
on cursory exam before a century, already had two broken strands from rust. Teflon reduces but
does not eliminate risk of rust, as those who have had the teflon rub off document. Steve

Am I a idiot that uses ordinary fine oil that I squirt down the housings before I install the cables? Will I encounter any problem in the future? (Just did this on a rebuilt MTB).
Not my personal choice, but it's serviceable

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/cable-cuts.gif

Worthwhile mentioning that (if you have access to it), put a grinder to the cable ends once you cut them. The resulting flat face of the cable ends (right cable in picture above) will seat better in ferrules and cable stops.

Less (apparent) stretch over time, and better "snappiness" of cable reaction. Minimises cable compression at th ends as well. Perhaps that's all the same thing?

Anyway, only takes 1 minute per peice of cable, and is doing the job properly (IMHO).

I haven't sprung for the good cutters yet, because they are pricey. But I do agree that clean cuts on both the cables and the housings are significant.

I use a Dremel cut off wheel to make the cuts and smooth the ends of the housing.

I use a set of lineman's pliers for both cable and housing. I put the inner cable in the cutter part of the plier, put the the whole thing on the anvil part of my vice and hit the top of the plier with a hammer - clean cut every time.

After cutting the housing, I file the ends flat....

Maybe I should buy the cutters...

I use a set of lineman's pliers for both cable and housing. I put the inner cable in the cutter part of the plier, put the the whole thing on the anvil part of my vice and hit the top of the plier with a hammer - clean cut every time.

After cutting the housing, I file the ends flat....

Maybe I should buy the cutters...
It would simplify things

I use linesman cutters and don't have to use a hammer to get a clean cut. A good set of linesman cutters cost as much or more than cable cutters but I had a set already.

What people are calling stretching the cables is a misnomer. Steel cables don't really stretch in any meaningful way.

Just a nit to pick.[/QUOTE]

Ummmm.....that's not my experience. Steel is malleable. It gives, ....also, the cable itself unwinds. The "stretch" is not just in the housing compressing.

Most important to remember is that they will probably need to be re-visited after real-world use.

I agree with high priced cables being a bust. Ride-on sucks I'd have been better off using the money for a good whiskey.

Teflon on Teflon is good. However with regard to the earlier question about a light oil being used in a cheap housing. There are better choices but that is probably fine for the way most people ride. As long as your typical ride doesn't look like you are trying out for a Mountain Dew commercial. If you are a commuter then you may want to up grade

I agree with high priced cables being a bust. Ride-on sucks I'd have been better off using the money for a good whiskey.


I have the original set of Ride-on cables on my '95 Attitude and they are still working great!

I've got a set running my Avid mechanicals that work just fine for me too.

I have the original set of Ride-on cables on my '95 Attitude and they are still working great!


Fine, and I have a Teflon-coated rear derailleur cable that is in use since 2001 on my touring bike. (that was the only 3-m long cable they had in stock).

But I also have a set of basic steel cables that are in use on my commuter since... 1980. And they work fine.

Fine, and I have a Teflon-coated rear derailleur cable that is in use since 2001 on my touring bike. (that was the only 3-m long cable they had in stock).

But I also have a set of basic steel cables that are in use on my commuter since... 1980. And they work fine.

uh, yeah.... If you noticed the quote in my post, it'll make sense that I was simply giving another side to the comment of "Ride-on sucks".

I did not write that Ride-on does not work-(they are still installed on my bike). I probably should not have use the term "sucks". However, the difference in performance vs difference in cost was substantial....even at cost, and I'm sure it didn't help that I experience a defect on the product that was new at the time. Very good quality cables/housings can be had for a very reasonable price, this, simply,was not one of those examples in my opinion. I'm trying to point out to the original poster that he/she need not spend significant amounts of money to get wonderful performance and good quality.

I think I need that whiskey now.

I'm trying to point out to the original poster that he/she need not spend significant amounts of money to get wonderful performance and good quality.


I agree, depending on the application, these Ride-on type cables are major overkill.


I think I need that whiskey now.

:D

Worthwhile mentioning that (if you have access to it), put a grinder to the cable ends once you cut them.

The heat from grinding may melt the housing inner linner causing a decrease in cable performance.

Its easy to tell which cables work well. Slide the cable through your fingers. Some will feel very smooth others will not. Buy a good quality stainless steel cable along with lined housing and your good to go.

Here's my two cents: For road bikes, spend a few extra bucks and get the Torelli cable sets. Smoother braking and shifting. For MTBs, throw away your Shimano shifters and rear derailleurs, and get some SRAM. Use the Torelli or similar high quality stainless cables. You'll wonder why you ever bothered even asking. If you can't go the SRAM route, don't fret. A compression resistant housing with stainless cables will still improve things. Why try to save a few $'s, if it means more time adjusting things? Get the Park cable cutter as soon as you can afford it. It even cuts spokes, which is great when you start building wheels.

I refuse to spend over 20 dollars for cables. I just see it as gimmick. Generic teflon housing for me. teflon coated cables i dont know i hear it falls off. I keep my housing well lubricated with tri flow spray. I clean them and it all works very well.

The heat from grinding may melt the housing inner linner causing a decrease in cable performance.

A problem easily solved with a sharpened spoke

Generic teflon housing for me. Teflon coated cables I dont know I hear it falls off. It the last three years that I've been using teflon coated cables with teflon lined housing the only ones I've had flake were the ones I allowed to "float" free in my toolbox where they rubbed on some of my tools. I haven't had one flake while in use on a bike period.

I refuse to spend over 20 dollars for cables. I just see it as gimmick. Generic teflon housing for me. teflon coated cables i dont know i hear it falls off. I keep my housing well lubricated with tri flow spray. I clean them and it all works very well.

What cables are or $20 besides the metal housed?

Expatriarte...if you were around when Gripshift firsy came out you'd retract your anti-Shimano statements. In the eary days Gripshift was notorious for crappy shifting. In fact they recommended special cables and special lubricants because of very poor shifting.

[QUOTE]A problem easily solved with a sharpened spoke [QUOTE]

I thought I'd leave that part out.....next thing you know people will be shooting them out of air guns...wait...how'd I know that?

"What cables are or $20 besides the metal housed?"
Half a Campy set.

I buy crap cables. (actually I don't pay for them). I tried the expensive ones but didn't notice a lick of difference. So now I just replace the cables every so often and replace the housing every 2 or 3 cable changes. Doesn't affect my shifting in the least (I love sram...)

I dont use cable actuated brakes anymore so I can't really say the affect. I did use teflon coated for my cable disc brakes and it did make a difference. I think the hayes discs were really quirky with cable usage.

Expatriarte...if you were around when Gripshift firsy came out you'd retract your anti-Shimano statements. In the eary days Gripshift was notorious for crappy shifting. In fact they recommended special cables and special lubricants because of very poor shifting.
What does that have to do with anything? Did I say go out and buy 10 year old crap? I was around when Tuff Wheels and Z rims were the latest and greatest. I would never own anything Gripshift, I think it's crap. But SRAM's newest trigger shifters are far and away better than anything Shimano produces. Not to mention that the new STI crap for mountain bikes is the ugliest garbage I've seen on a bike in a long time.