Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Purple Bertoni w/ Dura Ace value

I saw it on CL. Haven't heard back from the seller yet. Some research tells me it's worth the price for a rider if it fits, which it does. Would the DA group and frame be worth parting out to make a little profit?

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/1212379439.html

I bought this bike in the late 80's before I moved back east and got into mtbiking. The bike was in storage for a many many moons. It's 22"/56cm made in Italy frame with mostly Dura Ace components. It would be in good condition except for the ding on the top tube.

$250 OBO

Really too bad about that ding. Looks like a great bike

I'd pay $250 in a heart beat.

Yes, you could make some money parting it out but you could also make some money flipping it on ebay. The least expensive full Dura Ace bikes on ebay are in the mid $400 range.

The question you need to ask yourself is if you want to go through the hassle of selling 15 individual items on ebay versus selling 1.

I just got an email from the seller with about 6 other people's names attached.

He says,,
The bike is in good working/riding condition. The frame is Italian made by
Cinelli and is branded Bertoni. All tubings and fork are Columbus with
Campagnolo front and rear dropouts. As far as I can tell, almost every
components is Dura Ace except for the down tube shifter (Shimano 600), brake
levers(S. 105), and pedals( SR-generic clip-on). The stem and handlebar are
TTT. The hubs are also Dura Ace with Mavic MA40 clincher and six speed cog.

I sent e mail and said I will be there asap.

Those wheels sound great. I love the MA40

I just got an email from the seller with about 6 other people's names attached.

He says,,
The bike is in good working/riding condition. The frame is Italian made by
Cinelli and is branded Bertoni. All tubings and fork are Columbus with
Campagnolo front and rear dropouts. As far as I can tell, almost every
components is Dura Ace except for the down tube shifter (Shimano 600), brake
levers(S. 105), and pedals( SR-generic clip-on). The stem and handlebar are
TTT. The hubs are also Dura Ace with Mavic MA40 clincher and six speed cog.

I sent e mail and said I will be there asap.


Based on the description I'd still pay $250 in a heartbeat. Hopefully you get there first!!!

Only thing I question is how he knows that Cinelli built it (does he think the Cinelli BB shell means that? he's wrong). Nobody knows for sure, but Ben Lawee who made this brand bought them from a couple different Italian sources, most often mentioned is Bianchi.
But that said: +1, buy it! the dent is probably a handlebar-impact ding, and not a big deal.

I got e mail from the seller along with 8 other people. He is going to give his address and let people come by tomorrow at 7 pm. Sounds like it's going to become an auction which I will just stay away from. I can envision a mad dash from the starting line like when the wedding store opens and brides to be go running for 1/3 price wedding dresses. Nahhh.

He did e mail some better pictures.

His words...
"Someone already low bid me. Please be fair. If you're interested in
this bike, you know what it is. If you don't, do your research and google
cinelli, campagnolo, dura ace, TTT, mavic, columbus tubing.

If you want to see the bike, it will be available after 7PM tomorow when I
get home from work. Please don't come if it's already dark. If you can't
make it then just let me know and I'll see if something can be worked out.
I would like to sell the bike by Sunday."

I got e mail from the seller along with 8 other people. He is going to give his address and let people come by tomorrow at 7 pm. Sounds like it's going to become an auction which I will just stay away from. I can envision a mad dash from the starting line like when the wedding store opens and brides to be go running for 1/3 price wedding dresses. Nahhh.

He did e mail some better pictures.

His words...
"Someone already low bid me. Please be fair. If you're interested in
this bike, you know what it is. If you don't, do your research and google
cinelli, campagnolo, dura ace, TTT, mavic, columbus tubing.

If you want to see the bike, it will be available after 7PM tomorow when I
get home from work. Please don't come if it's already dark. If you can't
make it then just let me know and I'll see if something can be worked out.
I would like to sell the bike by Sunday."

Too bad. You should flag the ad as 'auctions' are forbidden on CL. It is possible the other 7 are thinking the same things as you and may not show up. I'd be there at 7 with $250-300 cash in hand. try to be the first one there, hand him $250 and see how it goes.

Too bad. You should flag the ad as 'auctions' are forbidden on CL. It is possible the other 7 are thinking the same things as you and may not show up. I'd be there at 7 with $250-300 cash in hand. try to be the first one there, hand him $250 and see how it goes.

+1
Be there early, make the offer, get in the car and drive away if he turns you down.

I just flagged it.

DA would probably make this a Specialissima, although the ones I've seen were SL, not SLX. The chrome forks and stays I've seen on the SLX Italoro and Professionale, which both came with Campy. No matter, I've seen mixes among Bertonis before. In any case, this is one of their top frames. My mid-level Corsamondiale (SL & no chrome) was a great bike, just too small for me.

I sold my bare frame for about $300.

Bob, you seem to know a lot about this marque: who do you think built them (and why)?
That crazy internal-chainstay cable routing looks like some hallmark feature, I haven't seen many bikes (from anybody) who did that.

Sounds like the seller may be just a little clueless, rather than deliberately setting up an "auction": he priced this thing very low and doesn't know how to cope with the flurry of interest so wants to let the buyers decide for him. This has been a tricky situation for me in the past, and involves a lot more work (sorting out who's on "first" and emailing everybody their position and rank) and results in some hard feelings as you have to disappoint eager buyers who offer all kinds of outrageous $$ to sway you. It would be nice for CL to come up with a suggestion or guideline for this.
Nah, I take it back: this guy seems to have gone beyond that stage and is making this a bidding war, he used the word "bid" himself. But I know the situation comes up, cause I've been on both sides of a "CL mob scene", before.

I got this e mail from the seller this morning. He put his address and phone number on it.

His words...
"Please come and see the bike after 7pm today. Should there be multiple
interests, just leave your name and number and I will pick you out randomly
and finish the sale as soon as I can (definitely by Sunday). I'm not trying
to start a bid war and I think this is the only way to be fair to everyone
who is interested. The price is $250 and the bike is sold as is."

Sounds like he might take names of the people that show up, tell everyone to go home and then draw them from a hat later, no bidding.
It's only 9 miles away so I can take an hour to get a shot at it.

Brief history of Bertoni as found and exerpted from various, maybe reliable sources: A marque devised by California bicycle importer Ben Lawee (of Motobecane, Italvega, Univega). The Bertoni marque was Lawee's return to Italy (after moving "Ital"vega to Japan "Uni"vega in '77), sometime around the mid 80's. The name Bertoni, I assume, was adopted from the Italian racer of the 1930's. Bertoni bikes were possibly manufactured at the Billato, Bianchi or Colnago frame manufacturing plants. My '87 Corsamondiale has a similar serial numbering scheme to Bianchi. The line emphasized function over flash and received favorable press. The line itself was fairly large, comprising nine bicycles in 1988. The nine models I have seen on the web (gruppos may or may not be as original) are the top of the line Professionale (Columbus SLX tubing, Campy SR equipped), the Italoro (SLX + C Record), the Specialissima (SL(X?) + Dura Ace), mine - the Corsamondiale (SL + Shimano 600), the Pro Victory (SL + Campy Victory), the Nuovitalia (Matrix + 600), the Ultraleggera (Vitus 979 aluminum + 600), and the Italamerica (Matrix + 105). In addition, they manufactured a tri/tt/funny bike, all Campy SR with 700c/650c discs.

This is not mine but I think belongs to a BF member. Italoro, full C-Record, Sheriff Star hubs. http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/277630-2/Bertoni+Italoro.jpg

thanks for the history, Bob!

Brief history of Bertoni as found and exerpted from various, maybe reliable sources: A marque devised by California bicycle importer Ben Lawee (of Motobecane, Italvega, Univega). The Bertoni marque was Lawee's return to Italy (after moving "Ital"vega to Japan "Uni"vega in '77), sometime around the mid 80's. The name Bertoni, I assume, was adopted from the Italian racer of the 1930's. Bertoni bikes were possibly manufactured at the Billato, Bianchi or Colnago frame manufacturing plants. My '87 Corsamondiale has a similar serial numbering scheme to Bianchi. The line emphasized function over flash and received favorable press. The line itself was fairly large, comprising nine bicycles in 1988. The nine models I have seen on the web (gruppos may or may not be as original) are the top of the line Professionale (Columbus SLX tubing, Campy SR equipped), the Italoro (SLX + C Record), the Specialissima (SL(X?) + Dura Ace), mine - the Corsamondiale (SL + Shimano 600), the Pro Victory (SL + Campy Victory), the Nuovitalia (Matrix + 600), the Ultraleggera (Vitus 979 aluminum + 600), and the Italamerica (Matrix + 105). In addition, they manufactured a tri/tt/funny bike, all Campy SR with 700c/650c discs.

This is not mine but I think belongs to a BF member. Italoro, full C-Record, Sheriff Star hubs. http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/277630-2/Bertoni+Italoro.jpg

Lovely bike. Excellent info, too - thanks.

I went to see the bike. Not as nice as the one Bob Barker posted but besides the top tube dent it's in excellent shape and rides really nice. He is the original owner and it looks like it's been indoors for most of it's life.

The guy took names and numbers and with whatever method he wants will decide who will buy it. He said a raffle.

I asked him if he expected the amount of interest he has gotten. He seemed stressed out and pretty much said he wished he never listed it because he had to deal with some overly aggressive people.

If I get the call fine if not it's 45 minutes out of the day to sample a very nice bike.

got my fingers crossed for you...it'd be a great find for $250, even if it needs work. If you miss it, just let it go and wait for the next fish.

^ I think I try to say that to myself at least once a day.

That was a nice way for the seller to resolve this. Good luck we are all pulling for you to get it.

hey guys. just found your thread off google.

i'm the lucky guy that was able to purchase the bike. he said everyone else was too pushy.

i've pretty much kept it stock except a new white rolls seat. want to get the matching DA brake levers and shifters. but not priority.

The thing rides awesomely. And I just did the Long Beach bike tour and a guy was amped on the bike. So am I

the ding on the top tube was probably from it falling over or something. not from the bars. fyi

if I not mistaken weren't later Bertonis (maybe this one) imported by Univega/Lawee? I remember seeing some really nice ones, even a Max at a dealer open house in about '92. I would certainly consider this if it was close and my size.

hey guys. just found your thread off google.

i'm the lucky guy that was able to purchase the bike. he said everyone else was too pushy.

He probably meant everyone except for me.:)

well... i'm sure you're a swell guy but... he said that I was the nicest one that came to check out the bike.
and everyone that comes up to me and asks about the bike always wants to know how much i paid for it. then they're stunned when i tell them.
i guess it makes me feel good about the purchase of my first bike.