Living Car Free - car-free does not save much money

i have been keeping records of my car use. i find that it costs me no more than 1500 dollars a year for all the costs. if i used just the bus it would cost me about 500 a year because i get half priced rides due to being disabled. so really a bike does not save much money. i mainly ride a bike because i think it's really neat and i like the "bike head".

So, it costs you $1,500 a year to ride your bike?

You must go through a lot of tubes!

Most people who are careful enough with car expenses to run a car for $1500 a year can run a bicycle for $150 a year, which is quite a bit less than 500/year for bus rides.

A disadvantage for a bike is that you're not as well protected from injury in traffic accidents as a person on a bus is. On the other hand, riding a bike (like any other exercise) can reduce your risk of heart disease/cancer/stroke, which are the most common causes of death in developed countries.

I have a geo metro, paid for long ago. Very good gas mileage. My insurance just renewed for the next six months... cost 135.00. The plates are 50 bucks a year. Gas I use per week is between 5-10 bucks at the most. Half my commutes, most of my errands, I do on my bike(s). Not to save money.. I do it because I feel good about doing it. It's good for my health. Keeps me mellow and happy. Makes me a happy girl.

Most people who are careful enough with car expenses to run a car for $1500 a year can run a bicycle for $150 a year, which is quite a bit less than 500/year for bus rides.

A disadvantage for a bike is that you're not as well protected from injury in traffic accidents as a person on a bus is. On the other hand, riding a bike (like any other exercise) can reduce your risk of heart disease/cancer/stroke, which are the most common causes of death in developed countries.

Yup.

The amount of money saved depends a lot on where you live, and what your lifestyle is. In TN (where I live now) it's only about $50/yr to register a car. I'm moving to MD in a few weeks where i believe it cost several hundred dollars to register the car +annual inspections +higher insurance rates +gas +maintenance etc. My wife has a car but by going car-free myself I believe my savings will be well into the thousands annually.

I am an extreme example so in my case the savings is probably about as high as one could expect. Its somewhere in the neighborhood of $12-$14K per year plus as an added bonus I am doing basically the same job I had before just doing it by bike and my delivery area got smaller.

before I was going thru an average of one new car every 4 years and a used one every 6 months, driving 1000-1500 miles per week and paying commercial insurance which was $300/month

car pymt, insurance, fuel, licensing, tickets, tolls, etc etc....it adds up pretty quick

average typical office worker I deal with would easily save up around $8k a year by going car free---parking downtown is $175 a month, insurance $125ish, plus fuel plus car pymt----and equity in cars is practically non existent so you don't get much back there either

i have been keeping records of my car use. i find that it costs me no more than 1500 dollars a year for all the costs. if i used just the bus it would cost me about 500 a year because i get half priced rides due to being disabled. so really a bike does not save much money. i mainly ride a bike because i think it's really neat and i like the "bike head".

The U.S. needs to raise taxes on gasoline and use the proceeds to build a decent mass transit system.

The U.S. needs to raise taxes on gasoline and use the proceeds to build a decent mass transit system.
If they're going to place a tax burden on one form of transportation to pay for another, why not also place a tax on bicycles to pay for this wonderful mass transit system?

It is the same justification after all; every time someone rides a bicycle to get somewhere, that is money that the mass transit system "lost".... or is that different somehow?
~

... or is that different somehow?
~

It's different because bikes are efficient. They don't burn gallons of foreign oil, they don't kill thousands of pedestrians every year, they don't keep millions locked into debt through loans on now worthless vehicles, they don't cause congestion, they don't require hundreds of square miles to be paved over to park on, they don't cause respiratory illness... need I go on?

The amount being car-free saves is going to be highly variable. For my income level, which is little enough I often consider what would happen if I just stopped going to work, even $100 saved in a month is a ton. This is roughly the cost of one month of car insurance for me. Now factor in gas, repairs, registration, emissions tests, the inevitable ticket, parking, etc...and I make a killing by riding my bike, which requires occasional maintenance that I do myself. Relative to my income, I make a killing by not having a car. Someone who wipes his butt with hundreds won't care nearly as much.

Since I can't speak for the rest of the world, I'll speak to the American obsession with automobiles. It's ridiculous. They provide a degree of freedom in an obscenely large country, but their necessity on a day-to-day basis for many is just horribly overstated. those of you who live in BFE might need your cars, so I'm not saying everyone can do without.

The love of care creates a paradox, because people are closed-minded and uncreative in general. Many people really could save significant amounts of money by utilizing a bicycle in place of a car. But then they cry about their obscene car payment on a generic SUV and the price of gas and how they need a new car even though theirs is only 4 yrs old. blah blah blah Don't like the price of something? Try to do without it.

I really want a nice new road bike. So much that I think I'll subsist on ramen for a few months to get it. Don't think I'll ever do that to give someone money just in case something happens, or to rent a car I don't really need.

I was talking to a customer at work, who was complaining about the weather because it was keeping him from washing his GD'd car and with the way the economy is that he can't afford to wash it all the time. He was the kind of idiot who wouldn't have absorbed the point if I went off on him about how washing a car all the time is unnecessary and a waste in the first place. If he really wanted to wash his car, though, he could have forgone the cookie and extra sandwich meat and used that money to pay for it. I would probably have gotten fired for that, and I need the $9 an hour.

i find that it costs me no more than 1500 dollars a year for all the costs. if i used just the bus it would cost me about 500 a year because i get half priced rides due to being disabled. so really a bike does not save much money.

Am I missing something? A thousand dollars a year is not much money? How much did you expect to save?

You may want to start thinking long-term about your finances.

It's different because bikes are efficient. They don't burn gallons of foreign oil, they don't kill thousands of pedestrians every year, they don't keep millions locked into debt through loans on now worthless vehicles, they don't cause congestion, they don't require hundreds of square miles to be paved over to park on, they don't cause respiratory illness... need I go on?
So then, walking is even more efficient than bicycling, right?
Walking is more efficient, doesn't require using natural resources or generating pollution to make bicycle parts, is safer both for the rider and pedestrians, costs less money, doesn't require building bike paths, I could go on but hopefully you get the point.

If your only logic for getting rid of everyone's cars is "I don't like them", then you haven't got any logic.
~

There are hidden costs which you are probably saving on by riding a bike. Cycling is great cardio exercise, even if the ride is only a couple miles. Getting adequate cardio exercise will, in the long run, most likely save you a lot of medical expenses when you are older. There's no way to actually calculate that savings, but its there.

The U.S. needs to raise taxes on gasoline and use the proceeds to build a decent mass transit system.

Yes, but then you probably forget that everything you own or eat is transported by a vehicle which uses gas or diesel (which is already highly taxed). Even if you don't drive a car at all, you will end up paying the cost for the increased taxes.

People seem to forget that oil is not a renewable source, and that by the end of this century there will likely be none left. People will begin to use other forms of transportation (or other systems/fuels for powering vehicles) when the oil runs out. It will be just like the end of horse transportation in the beginning of the last century, people changed their ways when new ways became available.

The last part is that I don't trust the government to properly use any money that they collect in taxes. For every dollar they collect, it seems they spend three. At this moment you are paying income tax, sales tax, property tax, taxes on electricity, water, telephone, and internet, you are paying vehicle registration tax, gas tax, and miscellaneous taxes related to the disposal of old oil and used tires. You are also paying social security/disability tax. If you are a business owner, the previously mentioned taxes are just the beginning of a long list of taxes and fees.

People often marvel at Japan's "public" transportation. It used to be owned and operated by the Japanese government, and, as usual in any government administered service, it was bleeding incredible amounts of money each year. Japan sold the train, subway, and bus lines to private individuals, and now all of these services actually earn a profit, without an increase in fares or subsidies from taxes.

So then, walking is even more efficient than bicycling, right?
Walking is more efficient, doesn't require using natural resources or generating pollution to make bicycle parts, is safer both for the rider and pedestrians, costs less money, doesn't require building bike paths, I could go on but hopefully you get the point.

If your only logic for getting rid of everyone's cars is "I don't like them", then you haven't got any logic.
~

Walking is not more efficient than cycling. Do the math on how many callories of energy you burn to walk one miles and how many your burn to cycle one miles.

Walking requires shoes which are made in India from Nike and rubber from other countries. Walking absolutly uses natural resources. I could go on and on but hopefully you get the point.

Take any stupid argument to an extreme and you come to an equally stupid solution.

Japan sold the train, subway, and bus lines to private individuals, and now all of these services actually earn a profit, without an increase in fares or subsidies from taxes.

Do they really? I'll take your word for it because I know next to nothing about the Japanese system, but I have spoken to people from other countries that have privatised their rail systems, and the picture isn't so rosy. Take Britain, for example. Privatisation there has led to much higher fares and a cutting back of services. And what about the U.S. itself? Hasn't laissez-faire capitalism done a great job of providing Americans with fast, efficient and economical mass transit?

This may come as a shock to you, but I don't want public services to make a profit. I'm willing to pay taxes for things like trains, streetcars, healthcare, police and fire protection, libraries, schools, and so on. You see, I actually believe there is a role for the public sector.

If your only logic for getting rid of everyone's cars is "I don't like them", then you haven't got any logic.~

I don't include a list of the problems created by car-centric transport systems in every post I make. Rbrian mentioned a few of them in post #10.

Insurance
Maintenance
Gas
Car Payments

They add up. Just because you paid for your car already doesn't mean you didn't sacrifice to do so. I was car-free for 8 years, it saved me a gigantic amount of money. I might point out that using the bus is still car-free. The bicycle is not the only solution, nor is it a solution in its entirety. Public Transit is part of any car-free lifestyle.

Anyone who claims that car-free isn't a cost savings is lying.

i think this is hilarious!

i mean to say

that its not necessarily the direct cost to cost comparison of operating a bicycle compared to a car

but really.....

the real deal is....

the heaps of stuff that is pigeon holed into most peoples' residence
the heaps of stuff that is pigeon holed into most peoples' refrigerators... alone!

that is...

the heaps of stuff that we've spent money on, which has been schlept into our dwellings via...

via?

viola!

of course...

A CAR

as Huxley coined the phrase... "the reducing valve"

that which everything must pass thru

in our Pop Americana Culture

we pop our wheres out of Auto-mobile uber convenience

that is to say

its not necessarily that a bicycle is obviously much cheaper than a car

but really...

the "Lifestyle" that is associated with said vehicles

i have been keeping records of my car use. i find that it costs me no more than 1500 dollars a year for all the costs. if i used just the bus it would cost me about 500 a year because i get half priced rides due to being disabled. so really a bike does not save much money. i mainly ride a bike because i think it's really neat and i like the "bike head".

What about replacement costs? Did you factor in that at one point you'll have to buy a new car? How much will that car cost you? Are you going to take out a loan?

cars-r-coffins

Like Black Cadillacs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmqlI5rSuws
lyrics:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/modestmouse/blackcadillacs.html

and to think
it took something like 20,000 soldiers
and $5m
by the time Pontiac was killed

of course no one ever brings that kind of stuff up... right?

i think that was 1814

we know of Detroit, Cadillac, Pontiac

and don't forget the Plymouth Fire Arrow...

I'm going car-free (well, car-light since I will have access to one for hauling larger loads if need be) in a month, so barring any major issues that could happen to my car that I would need to fix before selling it, I can calculate out how much it has cost me. I figure that it cost about $0.20/mile over three years. I drive (now bike too) a fair amount (lived 30 miles from work for a period), so it may be higher per mile for other folks who drive less per year.

Going car-free won't save me much money, but it isn't just about the money (though it is handy). It about the benefits for me, the earth, and the people I will spend more time with. Of course, I am speaking out of inexperience, but these are the reasons I am going car-free, not simply because it saves me money.

Parking if you live in an apartment, gas (which is a highly variable cost, and constantly subject to gradual increase and a potential catastrophic increase at any time), vehicle registration (and emissions or safety inspection where needed), depreciation, interest and all those things (unless you drive a paid for beater which you will nevertheless have to replace sometime), auto insurance, and of course, the big kicker is always maintenance. Even if everything is going well, and you are happily driving your old paid for beater car, you know that you are always one forever-recurring bad luck day away from a major repair -- and we know what those cost.

You guys with the low ball estimates of your annual car ownership costs are like those other guys who almost kill themselves on one bike ride trying to make sure the speed indicator on their cyclocomputer never goes under 25 mph so they can come on Bike Forums and say they "average" 25 mph on their rides.

Parking if you live in an apartment, gas (which is a highly variable cost, and constantly subject to gradual increase and a potential catastrophic increase at any time), vehicle registration (and emissions or safety inspection where needed), depreciation, interest and all those things (unless you drive a paid for beater which you will nevertheless have to replace sometime), auto insurance, and of course, the big kicker is always maintenance. Even if everything is going well, and you are happily driving your old paid for beater car, you know that you are always one forever-recurring bad luck day away from a major repair -- and we know what those cost.

For the record, I bought my car (Honda Civic) used, low mileage for its age. I do my own repair/maintenance. So yeah, if I "needed" a large car, paid someone to do my maintenance, and drove like a maniac (killing parts and gas mileage), it would cost more per mile. My figures are based on actual costs (registration, repair, gas, insurance, interest for loan, depreciation, etc) over the last 3 years. I don't have the issue of parking cost (live in a basement apartment, so I have parking).

There are always exceptional cases either way. If car ownership works for you and is cheaper than using other means of transport, it's hard to argue about it, except in terms of environmental friendliness and exercise. I thinks it's safe to say that your case won't apply to everyone, and probably not a majority. But hey, I'm realistic, and I recognize that our civilization is designed around the automobile, and so unless a person lives in the right place (which itself can be prohibitively-expensive) and both works and plays within that general area, it can be almost impossible to live without access to a car.

1500 dollars a year is likely a very poor underestimate of car ownership costs on any car.

So is 20 cents a mile. You're looking at 10 cents a mile based on gas, oil, tires, and brakes alone. Insurance likely matches that. If anything major goes out, it's game over. That is, of course, ignoring the initial sticker price.

If they're going to place a tax burden on one form of transportation to pay for another, why not also place a tax on bicycles to pay for this wonderful mass transit system?

I don't know, maybe because ~100 years ago they taxed rapid transit to death to pay for our highway system?

1500 dollars a year is likely a very poor underestimate of car ownership costs on any car.

I would likely agree with you unless you rarely run the vehicle and tags/insurance/etc are incredibly low. My fixed costs are $1800/year.



So is 20 cents a mile. You're looking at 10 cents a mile based on gas, oil, tires, and brakes alone.

About right in my books (9 cents a mile for me)



Insurance likely matches that.

For me, no. I pay 3 cents a mile.

I'm not claiming that my figures are typical, but it is what I've paid over the past three years. I included depreciation, gas, tires, all repairs, oil changes, insurance, tags, city parking sticker, car taxes, the titling cost, mileage I ran to pick up parts/gas (this was an estimate), and interest I paid on the car loan. I haven't had any major issues.

Like I said, I run a fair amount of mileage (20,000 per year), so the fixed costs (insurance, tags,etc) are low per mile. Both my wife and I have clean driving records and good credit (I was surprised to learn that the latter is a major part of the insurance equation), so insurance is pretty cheap. Even if I needed to replace my transmission tomorrow, my cost would remain below $0.25/mile (assuming $2500).

I wish I could say that it cost more per mile for a variety of reasons, but these were my costs. As I said, I'm selling my car in a few weeks despite the fact that I don't really think I'll come out ahead much with a bike. I'm not anti car-free at all, but merely giving the stats from my experience.

I do my own repair/maintenance. ...My figures are based on actual costs (registration, repair, gas, insurance, interest for loan, depreciation, etc) over the last 3 years.

Doing your own repairs has a time or opportunity cost, so you should add in the flat-rate for the time it takes, including time to buy the parts and equipment.

You car people seem blind to the effects of your actions. Every month or so someone posts in here trying to justify car culture. Just that fact that car people go out of their way to post nonsense in a car-free forum makes me think there is some guilt involved.

^ By turning it into a "you car people" argument, you've already drawn a needless line in the sand between being car free and anything else (like car light). That's a shame; it simply makes car free people appear as disagreeable as the folks who believe bikes belong on the sidewalk and should be licensed and registered.

After just under 2000 miles, my car has cost me about $1.13/mile, including everything but insurance. That's not far from my main bikes, which are around 90c and $1.02/mile after ~580 and ~670 miles respectively, including everything but accessories. My third bike is at $2.35/mile, but that's primarily due to the low mileage on it (~8) so far. The car price/mile will go up a little soon, as I had to pay for a new set of keys, but such is life.

Insurance
Maintenance
Gas
Car Payments


For some people, add in the gym membership. It amuses me to no end to see people drive miles out of their way to go to a gym and ride a stationary.

Just that fact that car people go out of their way to post nonsense in a car-free forum makes me think there is some guilt involved.

That's right, don't post no nonsense here that don't jibe with the conventional wisdom of the self proclaimed experts!:thumb:

The provincial car free poobahs of BF can handle posting nonsense about the costs of car ownership, as well as a host of other economic and social issues, quite well without help from people who might have actual experience with the subject.

Walking requires shoes which are made in India from Nike and rubber from other countries. Walking absolutly uses natural resources. I could go on and on but hopefully you get the point.



Is your bike made out of compost from your back yard?

599 a year to own a car !... I am jealous... I live in taxifornia,, I have been car free for almost two years now... The last time I registered a car it costs 389 for registration,, 75 for smog check, and 839 for insurance... This was for a run of the mill used pickup.. Now add in the cost of gas, repairs, tires etc and I figure I am saving a few thousand a year... As soon as the current regime gets done taxing the heck out of everythin I will be saving a whole lot more...

When I add up my yearly savings from going car free, I sometimes include the fact that I changed jobs just so I could ride to work. At my previous job I was spending about $4000 per year on gas and insurance alone (and that was with gas at about $2.20 a gallon) That's a pretty large amount for a vehicle that was paid for. Of course, if I drove to work now my savings wouldn't be nearly as high, because my commute would only be a couple of miles. But there would still be some savings. Of course, my favorite part of riding everywhere isn't any monetary savings, but my improved mental state. I'm a much calmer and more relaxed person now, and I no longer have high blood pressure.

That being said, not everyone could do this, or would want to do this. It's certainly not always easy.

When I add up my yearly savings from going car free, I sometimes include the fact that I changed jobs just so I could ride to work. At my previous job I was spending about $4000 per year on gas and insurance alone (and that was with gas at about $2.20 a gallon) That's a pretty large amount for a vehicle that was paid for. Of course, if I drove to work now my savings wouldn't be nearly as high, because my commute would only be a couple of miles. But there would still be some savings. Of course, my favorite part of riding everywhere isn't any monetary savings, but my improved mental state. I'm a much calmer and more relaxed person now, and I no longer have high blood pressure.

That being said, not everyone could do this, or would want to do this. It's certainly not always easy.

That's part of the decision making process my wife and I used to buy our first house. It had to be close enough to my job that I could reasonably ride to work every day. I'm not riding daily, but close. If you take further distances where we could have bought a house if I were willing to be chained to my car, we're saving a ton.

For some people, add in the gym membership. It amuses me to no end to see people drive miles out of their way to go to a gym and ride a stationary.

I have a gym membership and I go there on bike xD and I too find it amusing. They pay like 1000$ per year to go indoor when it's sunny and nice outside to be able to ride a stationary bike inside in a neon lighted room. And then everyone looks at me like I was an alien when I walk in the gym with my helmet xD

and hum, I'm 19yo, Male. Do you even realize that it would cost me a real damn lot to pay for car insurrances? just thinking about it is awfull, and you need the winter set of tires, at least 300$, + a car even used would run at like 1500$ which would be the price of a somewhat good bike.

the car is probably used so it'll need repairs sooner than you can think. Another grand spread over the year, while the bike... maybe a flat? If I have a problem with the derailleur, I can repair it quite easily or bring it at the LBS. if it's more serious, normally the waranty on the bike will cover those problems.

the year after... the car you still have to pay the insurrance, gas and everything
while the bike you check the tire pressure lubricate the parts, and ride it.

There you go.

Walking is not more efficient than cycling. Do the math on how many callories of energy you burn to walk one miles and how many your burn to cycle one miles.
If we're judging efficiency by calories burned, then a car would be even better than a bicycle.

Previously people mentioned the financial costs, and the pollution generated by manufacturing. In those terms, walking wins over both the car and bicycling.

I like bicycling, but don't feel it's useful to resort to false pretenses to advocate it.

------

The financial aspect in the OP is interesting however.
If you own a car but don't use it much, it can end up costing not a whole lot more than not having a car (and paying for public transportation) would--and owning your own car allows a far greater amount of freedom in most locations than public transportation allows.

If you live in an urban situation that involves a impractically-high expense of parking, then you need to realize that you are overpaying for every other kind of space just the same as what you'd need to overpay for car parking space. There is nothing magical about car parking lots that makes them more expensive than any other sort of real-estate.

Living in an urban area is simply not the way to live efficiently, as much as many people like to think it is. It is a choice of personal convenience at the expense of vast hidden waste.
"I believe in living green, so I bicycle to the corner market".
(where does the food at the corner market come from?)
"It is grown somewhere else and they bring it in somehow."
(if they bring it in on a truck, then doesn't that truck transporting that food cause pollution?)
"Yea, but that's not my fault. They may be wasting fuel and creating pollution, but I'm not."

It is similar to people who want so badly to own an electric vehicle, because they think it's "more efficient", but can't come to terms with the fact that it's vastly more expensive per-mile than a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle, and that's the reason that nobody uses them. When they cannot escape the simple financial costs, then they resort to vast conspiracy theories as to someone villainous who is forcing the cost to stay artificially high.
~

A lot depends on where you live as well. Just saw on the news in Boston, someone paid the record of $300K for a (1) parking space. Prior to that the record was $250K. Now he/she will have to pay city/county property taxes on that parking space each year which will be valued at the price paid. OMG! I would have to be carfree there.

Or you bike to the local urban farmer's market where the food is local and requires little energy to transport. We have an Urban Farmer's Market here that is entirely locals from down the street who grow in their backyards or community gardens and sell to the neighborhood.

So yes, one can live efficiently in an urban setting.

If we're judging efficiency by calories burned, then a car would be even better than a bicycle..


Wrong.

It turns out that "biological engines" -- which is what the muscles (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sports-physiology.htm) in your body are -- are pretty amazing in terms of efficiency. To find out how efficient, let's look at how many calories a person burns while riding a bicycle.

If you look at a page like this calorie chart (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question527.htm&url=http://score.kings.k12.ca.us/lessons/calories/calorieburn.html), you will find that a person riding a bicycle at 15 miles per hour (24 km per hour) burns 0.049 calories per pound per minute. So a 175-pound (77-kg) person burns 515 calories in an hour, or about 34 calories per mile (about 21 calories per km). A gallon of gasoline (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/gasoline.htm) (about 4 liters) contains about 31,000 calories. If a person could drink gasoline, then a person could ride about 912 miles on a gallon of gas (about 360 km per liter). Considering that a normal car gets about 30 miles per gallon, that's pretty impressive!

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question527.htm

If we're judging efficiency by calories burned, then a car would be even better than a bicycle.

Previously people mentioned the financial costs, and the pollution generated by manufacturing. In those terms, walking wins over both the car and bicycling.

I like bicycling, but don't feel it's useful to resort to false pretenses to advocate it.

------

The financial aspect in the OP is interesting however.
If you own a car but don't use it much, it can end up costing not a whole lot more than not having a car (and paying for public transportation) would--and owning your own car allows a far greater amount of freedom in most locations than public transportation allows.

If you live in an urban situation that involves a impractically-high expense of parking, then you need to realize that you are overpaying for every other kind of space just the same as what you'd need to overpay for car parking space. There is nothing magical about car parking lots that makes them more expensive than any other sort of real-estate.

Living in an urban area is simply not the way to live efficiently, as much as many people like to think it is. It is a choice of personal convenience at the expense of vast hidden waste.
"I believe in living green, so I bicycle to the corner market".
(where does the food at the corner market come from?)
"It is grown somewhere else and they bring it in somehow."
(if they bring it in on a truck, then doesn't that truck transporting that food cause pollution?)
"Yea, but that's not my fault. They may be wasting fuel and creating pollution, but I'm not."

It is similar to people who want so badly to own an electric vehicle, because they think it's "more efficient", but can't come to terms with the fact that it's vastly more expensive per-mile than a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle, and that's the reason that nobody uses them. When they cannot escape the simple financial costs, then they resort to vast conspiracy theories as to someone villainous who is forcing the cost to stay artificially high.
~

Gee Roody, you only hit on one false statement...... the stickies on this forum need a cleanup. We need one that lists car-driver nonsense. "Car as chador." "Can't own a pet without a car." "If you own a car but rarely drive it, it costs less than occasionally renting a car or calling a cab." "Theres no difference between a parking space and a home." "Apartment buildings are more wasteful than detached homes." "Driving a car is more efficient than riding a bike." It would be funny except that people in positions to make decisions about my life believe this crap.

Where I live, at today's fuel prices, going car-light and filling up once a month will save around $1,500 over average driving and filling up once a week. This is only the saving in fuel. It doesn't include any savings in maintenance costs or any other savings. For $1,500, I can get a nice bike.

Gee Roody, you only hit on one false statement...... the stickies on this forum need a cleanup. We need one that lists car-driver nonsense. "Car as chador." "Can't own a pet without a car." "If you own a car but rarely drive it, it costs less than occasionally renting a car or calling a cab." "Theres no difference between a parking space and a home." "Apartment buildings are more wasteful than detached homes." "Driving a car is more efficient than riding a bike." It would be funny except that people in positions to make decisions about my life believe this crap.

Yeah, the post you're referring to was a classic in the car-defender repertoire. It is pretty funny that these folks feel they have to come on just about the only carfree forum on the internet in order to defend the sacred honor of the automobile. :lol:

Like you say, it's less funny that just about every policy maker--left, right or center--believes that cars must be the centerpiece of modern life. And it's downright sad that most poor people are never exposed to the idea that, in some cases, becoming carfree is the best step they could make toward having a more comfortable lifestyle, as well as more stable finances.

599 a year to own a car !... I am jealous... I live in taxifornia,, I have been car free for almost two years now... The last time I registered a car it costs 389 for registration,, 75 for smog check, and 839 for insurance... This was for a run of the mill used pickup.. Now add in the cost of gas, repairs, tires etc and I figure I am saving a few thousand a year... As soon as the current regime gets done taxing the heck out of everythin I will be saving a whole lot more...
Even for those of us living in California the costs can vary considerably. Just got my registration renewal and it amounts to $81 for the year, my last smog inspection was $40 and is only due every two years so $20/yr., and insurance is running me $375/yr. Not disputing your numbers - for you and your vehicle, but I hope you realize they don't necessarily apply to everyone else. For me the fixed costs associated with keeping a car around are under $500/yr and the variable costs (gas, extra mtce., tires, etc.) have been running about $0.12/mile lately with the rise in gas prices. Definitely higher than my bike costs, but not dramatically so.

It strikes me that most people who post on these "carfree" car threads are not typical car owners. The car people here usually own older high-mileage cars that they maintain themselves. Since the cars are paid for, they usually carry cheaper PL/PD insurance.

In stark contrast, most Americans own late-model low-mileage cars that they have professionally maintained. Typical car owners are making car payments to lenders who require them to carry expensive full coverage insurance.

Obviously, the typical "carfree" car owner has much lower car expenses than the typical American car owner does. This one fact makes the comparisons and savings posted here uncharacteristic of the general American experience.

AAA and other auto organizations, as well as the IRS, have determined that the cost of car ownership for most Americans averages out to somewhere between 50 to 75 cents per mile. These are probably fairly accurate figures, and they would probably be better figures for most people to use when they're thinking about whether it would pay them to ditch their damn cars.

Extrapolating a bit from these figures: The average person drives around 10k to 15k miles a year. Therefore, their annual car expense is somewhere around $5,000 to $11,250 per year.

If you're interested in a more accurate estimate of your own personal driving expenses, several calculators are available in books and on the internet. I have posted these links several times before, and I don't much feel like doing it again. IIRC, Chris Balish has one somewhere on the web, and of course AAA has something on their site.

"This may come as a shock to you, but I don't want public services to make a profit. I'm willing to pay taxes for things like trains, streetcars, healthcare, police and fire protection, libraries, schools, and so on. You see, I actually believe there is a role for the public sector. "

Being Australian I would also add paying taxes so that every citizen has access to universal healthcare.

Wrong.




Crap Roody beat me to it!