Advocacy & Safety - Motorists rolling thorugh the stop sign.

Motorists rolling through stop signs. If they ever say bicyclists roll through stop signs show them this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGA3YhfsHhY

Yes I made the video, so you can critique like I know you want to.

nice video. I know of some intersections where people go through them faster than that. Would be nice to have some video.

nice video. I know of some intersections where people go through them faster than that. Would be nice to have some video.
Right before here the speed limit is 15mph with speed humps and 25mph posted
So they are going slow for a reason.
Thanks I learned how to edit my videos :)

I just used my digital camera and a tripod. Of course Linux to edit video.

Looks like that is a T-intersection, everyone on your video is turning right. Would be nice to see one where folks are just blowing straight on through. Well, not nice, but interesting.

Looks like that is a T-intersection, everyone on your video is turning right. Would be nice to see one where folks are just blowing straight on through. Well, not nice, but interesting.

I am planning on a No right turn on red, and yes a intersection where I almost get hit a lot.

Won't be as dramatic as 96% though.

Looks like that is a T-intersection, everyone on your video is turning right. Would be nice to see one where folks are just blowing straight on through. Well, not nice, but interesting.

This is why this "motorists never stop" argument is flawed. The issue lies with cyclists that straight on blow signs and lights, not slow down and check, and turn right. (and actually TBH: I don't mind cyclists blowing signs if making left turns into bike lanes, the entire pathway is suppose to be void of traffic, just make sure there are no tractor trailers that are going to be needing that space.)

But lets keep posting videos and trying to make stupid points, makes you way less ignorant right?

my thesis is the cyclists that blow through stop signs are the motorists that blow through stop signs. I know very few car-free cyclists, everyone you see on a bike is also a motorist. The cyclists in my town are riding because parking on the Penn State Campus is intentionally as difficult as possible except for the privileged few and very senior workers.

The reason we are interested in this is that the subject of cyclists running stop signs always shows up as an excuse when a motorist runs over a cyclist; we know that doesn't play into the vast majority of car/bike accidents. I also find the fact that I can't count on motorists to stop for stop signs to be a significant additional stress when I'm commuting.

Funniest one I saw; I stopped at a stop sign virtually everyone runs, and the following car simply whipped around me and ran the sign. I wasn't even on a bicycle - was driving a truck! That's how rare a full stop is. Of course, that fellow nearly hit the car I was waiting for.

I hardly ever see anyone stop. Bike or car.

I hardly ever see anyone stop. Bike or car.

Hardly is more like NEVER in New Orleans. First they roll up and block the sidewalks (briefly) to scan for traffic, then roll right on through. Our stop signs are BEFORE the sidewalks, like most places. Cars are supposed to stop at the sign, look down the SIDEWALK, then proceed when clear to the corner (sometimes vision is blocked by parked cars) and look again before entering the cross street.

Been in this town a long time. Except for me, I have never seen even one person stop before the sidewalk at the actual stop sign.

BTW...I don't bike on the sidewalk at cross streets, but I do walk a fair bit. Motorists actually think they have the right of way at a stop sign if only foot traffic wants to cross.

Bicyclists break laws as do car drivers. What ticks me off the most ... Then you hear on the radio or read somewhere .. the old mantra about cyclists can't obey the law they shouldn't be on the road. I want to scream that you'd be banning 99.9% of car drivers.

Well I am car free, so I don't motor around. I also come to a complete stop when I do decide I want to motor. The sight lines are pretty bad. You have a wall on your right and a berm on your left. The school sits across the street.


Left turns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYfqN6ypfU

I really did it for myself, and if you enjoy it great. It is no mystery what you are going to watch.
We had a law that didn't go anywhere which would allow cyclists to yield instead of stop. Seems rather petty we can't roll at a slow speed by law, when 96% of motorists on this corner don't stop themselves.

Yes get ready for more stupid videos. I am really doing pedestrian and bicycle counts and thought to add this.

@billw I would talk with them rather than write the letter.

Seems rather petty we can't roll at a slow speed by law, when 96% of motorists on this corner don't stop themselves.

Well that's more about being caught than anything else. If you're caught rolling in a bike, expect to be treated the same as if you're caught rolling in a car.

On your youtube page, you said, "I excluded the cars which stopped for cross traffic, which has the right of way. "

So... in other words, people stopped when they actually needed to, but didn't stop when there was no real reason, i.e. "safety" reason, to stop. That sounds just fine with me.

Well here's a wild thought.

People--motorists and cyclists alike--blow stop signs because most stop signs are just plain stupid. We have too damn many stop signs in America. We plant them on just about every intersection without any justification or rationale. Probably 75 % of stop signs are totally unnecessary for safety.

I'll have to disagree with that. I regularly see near misses where actually stopping and really looking would have prevented the encounter. I even see this on obscure country roads. Stop signs aren't really any trouble. Slow traffic down, indicate who has the burden, and so on. I can't think of a single one around here that doesn't serve a useful purpose. We have many more now than we used to, out in the countryside. Precisely because we kept having accidents at ambiguous intersections. We still do have close calls at such intersections, but it's from someone failing to use the stop appropriately. Especially from folks not really looking and rolling the stop. I've had to dodge such things while driving a small truck, bicycle, bright red car, and even a large SUV with the lights on - don't know how someone can fail to see that thing!

People blow stop signs out here because they think they can see well enough - probably can because they don't really look even when they do almost stop. I don't believe people are trained to use stop signs. They know they're supposed to stop, but neglect the actually looking, rather than sort of half-assed glancing. Some don't bother to look at all on the lightly traveled roads. I've seen and participated in close encounters where no slowing took place at all.

Nice thing about the countryside - I can usually find an offending car's owner and ask them politely to stop and look.

Funny thing - the FedEx and UPS drivers actually stop and look.

Another interesting incident, cycling. I rode through downtown Friendsville over the famous "hump" at over the 15 mph limit - within 100 ft of the stop, passed by a lady in a car, full in the wrong lane, who swerved over, then ran the stop in front of cars from both directions, entering the wrong lane before swerving back. I don't believe I've ever seen anyone so distracted by a bicycle. She just roared by - couldn't possibly have me reach the stop sign first! Haven't seen her in a while - her tendency to pass on blind hills may have caught up with her.

Well here's a wild thought.

People--motorists and cyclists alike--blow stop signs because most stop signs are just plain stupid. We have too damn many stop signs in America. We plant them on just about every intersection without any justification or rationale. Probably 75 % of stop signs are totally unnecessary for safety.

We should have designed traffic circles and roundabouts, and we get stop signs.

"On your youtube page, you said, "I excluded the cars which stopped for cross traffic, which has the right of way. "

So... in other words, people stopped when they actually needed to, but didn't stop when there was no real reason, i.e. "safety" reason, to stop. That sounds just fine with me."

This is a high pedestrian & bike area, and a school zone, so no it is not fine.


"Well that's more about being caught than anything else. If you're caught rolling in a bike, expect to be treated the same as if you're caught rolling in a car."
Unless you change the laws to reflect the road user. Going 2mph is no problem for me. Even in my video this seems a problem for some motorists. That and you can't see very well to the north. I slow down so I don't run into wrong way bicyclists.

It sort of pains me to say this, but I'd consider all of those mostly-adequate stops.

When I refer to motorists going through stop signs, there is rarely much brake light to be seen.

At the end of my street there is a 4-way stop sign just before a long-wait red light. When the light ahead is green, they just hit the gas right through the stop sign, opposing traffic or not.

There is a cop that sits there every afternoon to almost no overall effect. He only has time to ticket the most blatant ones.

I should get a clip some time for some light A&S comedy.

I find it interesting that so many people see cars blowing stop signs. I rarely, like once or twice in the last year, see that on my normal routes which include 3 4way stops and a couple of stop signs on a T intersection. The streets are 25 mph streets.

Here is my little contribution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFybHeszGTo

This is why this "motorists never stop" argument is flawed. The issue lies with cyclists that straight on blow signs and lights, not slow down and check, and turn right. (and actually TBH: I don't mind cyclists blowing signs if making left turns into bike lanes, the entire pathway is suppose to be void of traffic, just make sure there are no tractor trailers that are going to be needing that space.)

But lets keep posting videos and trying to make stupid points, makes you way less ignorant right?

I don't think I have ever seen a cyclist not visually clear an intersection before entering it. Most of them don't have a death wish. I do not now and will not ever be regular about coming to a complete stop on my bike, motorcycle or an my car or truck. I will always make sure it's safe to enter an intersection though even when I have a green or no regulatory device. I'm dang sure not going to whine on an internet forum about anyone in any conveyance rolling safely through a stop sign.

I don't think I have ever seen a cyclist not visually clear an intersection before entering it. Most of them don't have a death wish. I do not now and will not ever be regular about coming to a complete stop on my bike, motorcycle or an my car or truck. I will always make sure it's safe to enter an intersection though even when I have a green or no regulatory device. I'm dang sure not going to whine on an internet forum about anyone in any conveyance rolling safely through a stop sign.

Except when a motorist does it and gets a ticket, the cyclist community is like "good for them!".

When a cyclist gets a ticket, it's like the ****ing end of the world.

THIS is where the problem lies...

I really agree with you that I think stop signs are completely stupid, but it doesn't make me not aware from the stupid double standard that people here hold. The "everyone needs to follow rules but me" attitude.

I really agree with you that I think stop signs are completely stupid, but it doesn't make me not aware from the stupid double standard that people here hold. The "everyone needs to follow rules but me" attitude.

Yes. But equally lame is the vibe I get here that "Just because motorists break the rules doesn't mean you can."

It's sometimes followed by some inane theory about how cars goosing it through a yellow-red right at 20 over the limit is just drivers being drivers, whereas a cyclist riding through a stop sign at 10mph is some death sentence for bicycle advocacy.

Personally I don't really give a crap what drivers do as long as they don't hit me. Although as a pedestrian, the steady stream of engine-reving stop-sign-blowers in my neighborhood gets kind of old.

The problem with this comparison is that it's too black and white. Yes, motorists and cyclists both break laws. However:

While motorists roll through signs and right turn lights at 2mph, some cyclists don't even slow down.

While motorists may run red lights 0.1 seconds after the light turns red, you see cyclists blowing through a full second after even if opposing traffic is present (I don't really care about 'jaybiking').

If a huge downhill is present that allows a cyclist to exceed the speed limit as much as a car, I doubt cyclists would care about the speed limit unless they're scared.


We should have designed traffic circles and roundabouts, and we get stop signs.

Yield/Give way signs are commonly used in Europe, even more than roundabouts.


Except when a motorist does it and gets a ticket, the cyclist community is like "good for them!".

When a cyclist gets a ticket, it's like the ****ing end of the world.

THIS is where the problem lies...

I really agree with you that I think stop signs are completely stupid, but it doesn't make me not aware from the stupid double standard that people here hold. The "everyone needs to follow rules but me" attitude.

+1

TBH, I'm shocked that only 96% of motorists didn't stop in the first vid. I don't think I've ever seen someone come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

If there is ever anyone behind me when I pull up to a stop I'm usually worried that they will rear-end me as no one actually expects me to follow the law.

That being said, we do need a whole lot less stop signs and a whole lot more yield/give way signs.

I sat out near a 4-way stop once and watched traffic for 1/2 hour or so. Over half the solo cars would roll the stop sign. If they saw me on the bench, they would stop. If there were mulitple cars, they would all stop. Many of the full stops were about 1 car length passed the stop sign.

There is a tendency to treat a stop sign as a yield sign if no one is around.

I don't think one can rationally evaluate this issue without considertion to the potential harm a bicycly can do vs the potential harm a car can do. A bicyclist blows through a stop sign and hits a car or gets hit, he's going to the doctor. It is highly unlikely the other person will. While I think it would be excedingly rare that a cyclist would blow through a stop sign at high speed without visually clearing the intersection, and I have NEVER witnessed it, I suppose it may happen. When it does, the cyclist is likely only to harm himself. The same cannot be said for motorists. A bicycle blowing a stop sign and a car blowing a stop sign are two VERY different occurences with VERY different potential outcomes in reality. By law they are the same offense, so I don't get the point of the whining about any perceived inequity.

I sat out near a 4-way stop once and watched traffic for 1/2 hour or so. Over half the solo cars would roll the stop sign. If they saw me on the bench, they would stop. If there were mulitple cars, they would all stop. Many of the full stops were about 1 car length passed the stop sign.

There is a tendency to treat a stop sign as a yield sign if no one is around.

Too many people complain about cyclists getting tickets over cars, but the part they don't get is that drivers tend not to break the law in the presence of law enforcement. I run red lights and stop signs, but always check for police before doing so. (If you don't have time to do this, you're going too fast)


the cyclist is likely only to harm himself.

not this again.

Too many people complain about cyclists getting tickets over cars, but the part they don't get is that drivers tend not to break the law in the presence of law enforcement. I run red lights and stop signs, but always check for police before doing so. (If you don't have time to do this, you're going too fast)



not this again.

Yeah, this again. It's a simple statement of fact.

Thanks for your video NoiseBeam
No right turn on red. It should be noted some of these drivers simply rolled through a red light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im9ljMc2S0k