Road Cycling - Zipp 404's (700 - Clincher)

I have been interested in this wheelset for 2 years. I saw them on a bike a lady had custom built for her and they were the goods! Does anyone have any experience with them? They cost some $$$ but you only live once, so I figured this would be the place to ask before "biting the BB". :)

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

http://www.zipp.com/road/wheelsets/deepsection/404clincher.html

Ride safe,
Ti-Carbo

I have been interested in this wheelset for 2 years. I saw them on a bike a lady had custom built for her and they were the goods! Does anyone have any experience with them? They cost some $$$ but you only live once, so I figured this would be the place to ask before "biting the BB". :)

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

http://www.zipp.com/road/wheelsets/deepsection/404clincher.html

Ride safe,
Ti-Carbo

Why would you spend all that money for a *light* wheel set and then get clinchers? It sort of defeats the purpose. If you're going to drop that much jack on a set of wheels, get sew-up version. They are *much* lighter and ride better.

Then only ride them in races. If you aren't a racer, then you don't need these. Invest your money instead of wasting it.

Just my $0.02,

- Buddy Lee

Why would you spend all that money for a *light* wheel set and then get clinchers? It sort of defeats the purpose. If you're going to drop that much jack on a set of wheels, get sew-up version. They are *much* lighter and ride better.

Then only ride them in races. If you aren't a racer, then you don't need these. Invest your money instead of wasting it.

Just my $0.02,

- Buddy Lee

I have the investments taken care of. And I'm not a racer. I just love the look and the style of these wheels. I won't go sew-up because if I get a flat my ride is over - I don't have a team car following me... Yet :) I'm just curious how good they are. I have Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's now, but I'd put those on my wife's bike if I got these. This wheelset weighs more than the SL's so weight isn't the big issue. I just want to know from anyone who has had this wheelset if they were happy with them.

I've put right at 3K on the Mavics and I just trued them yesterday. 3 spokes adjusted and not even a total of 1 revolution on the 3 nipples combined. It's a great wheelset, so no complaints.

Thanks for the reply,
Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo

Ti-Carbo-

I dont have these wheels myself, but a close friend of mine does, and he has nothing but GREAT things to say about them. He replaced a set of Shimano 7701s with the Zipp 404s, and hasn't looked back.

They are extremely fast, and very light, kind of the best of both worlds. His claim is that at speed, they are ~ 1-1.25mph faster than a Ksyrium equivilant wheelset. The only situations where he wouldnt use then is when it is wet out.. I guess they arent the best in rainy weather.

He ended up selling me his old 7701s, and they are a great starter aero wheel. They are a good 1/2-3/4 mph faster than my Ksyrium Elites in the flats, but are a little heavier so they arent quite as fast in the hills. So, if you find the Zipps are just a little more than you want to get in, take a look at the 7701s.

Has he had any issues with them staying true?


Thanks for the reply... The lady that had these rode the Claxton Century the same year I did and she just raved about them. I'll admit that I'm a "Easy Sell" for high-end components... But hey, I enjoy riding a fine tuned machine!

Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo

I have the Zipp 404 clinchers (new, silver hub w/ carbon ends) and the 404 sewups.
The sewups are seriously about a 1/2 pound lighter. They are my race wheels.

The 404 clinchers are good and you can actually use them as daily wheels. They are really durable and the hubs are easily adjustable (just a couple allen wrenches). Sealed bearings and very easy to swap campy/shimano so even if you switch drivetrains, you can keep your Zipps. I guess some others are the same.

I've used the 404 clinchers for cyclocross and they were great. I switched over to sewups though.
Nothing but good things to say about the 404's. The patented shape is also very good in crosswinds- much better than the flat-V of Reynolds or HED.
Sensible spoke counts for an exotic wheel, easily rebuildable with standard (ovalized) stainless spokes, top notch hubs and the best rims in the business. The Zipps were more dependable than my Ksyrium SSC SL's. Also when I broke a Ksyrium spoke, that wheel sat for a week waiting for the part and installing the spoke.

Wait till you hear the sound the 404's make at speed, whew you will be hooked after that!

The machined aluminum braking/clincher area makes for good braking but it isn't perfectly smooth like a solid aluminum rim. That maybe the only downside.

Not sure it's the best way into the 404 but the clincher market speaks and Zipp (along with everyone else) answers the call.
It's excellent and the sewup versions are even better.

Ti-Carbo-

take a look at the 7701s.

i'm checking those out right now

The 404 clinchers are good and you can actually use them as daily wheels. They are really durable and the hubs are easily adjustable (just a couple allen wrenches).

That's music to my ears... And I have heard them at speed... it has to be the "coolest" rear hub mechanical melody I ever heard. I "swear" I was going to include that in my post... But I thought you all would think I was NUTS!!!!!


Thanks for the reply!
Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo

PS- Roll a rear Zipp wheel and listen... Just listen!
AAAAAaaaaaaHHHHhhhhh

Hummm...no one mentioned that the excessive heat from the braking surface can cause the carbon fairing to wrap... :D Hell, I will never race with these clinchers. Just imagine going down a descent at 45 mph+ and braking to under 20 mph to make a hair pin turn and realize the carbon fair is deformed. :D I race with a pair of 303 tubular.


I have been interested in this wheelset for 2 years. I saw them on a bike a lady had custom built for her and they were the goods! Does anyone have any experience with them? They cost some $$$ but you only live once, so I figured this would be the place to ask before "biting the BB". :)

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

http://www.zipp.com/road/wheelsets/deepsection/404clincher.html

Ride safe,
Ti-Carbo

I'm not a racer. I just love the look and the style of these wheels.

In other words, you're going to drop at least $1200 on a set of wheels because of how they look.
You my friend, are a poser :p

For what its worth, I used to work for American Classic - a company which builds wheels on this same rim (albiet with and AC hub). We used to see at least one of these rims come in every week broken for warranty / crash replacement. They would break buy simply running over a pothole. I don't know about you, but I can't afford to replace a wheel every time I'm lead over a pothole during a race or group ride. That and the spokes tended to pull through the rim a lot. We hardly ever saw alloy rims come in broken.

I had the opportunity to race on a prototype set of wheels from American Classic that were built on a Reynolds (http://www.reynoldscomposites.com) composite rim and a paired spoke pattern (ala Rolfs). They were built on AC hubs and were sew-ups. The carbon is a graphite composite, not the form-molded cloth/epoxy type like the Zipps are made of, which seemed to make them more solid and trustworthy. I must say that these were very nice wheels and accelerated like you wouldn't believe. I only got to ride two races on them, but I won the second race :D When I can afford it, I'm definitely going to get a set of these or build them up myself.

- Buddy Lee

In other words, you're going to drop at least $1200 on a set of wheels because of how they look.
You my friend, are a poser :p Buddy Lee

Hey BL,
What I do with my money is my business. I can get the wheelset for $300 less than your quote. I work hard to make a few extra pennies and how I spend them shouldn't concern you. I don't believe they ask for race a pedigree when you purchase any bicycle part. I just enjoy riding a nice road bike about 150 miles a week.

This is a forum for road cycling - My post has nothing to do with racing, nor have I ever posted that I want to become a racer. I guess I should buy a Wal-Mart bike so I'll be cool in your eye's huh.

You my friend, are an ass. :p

Ride Safe - and watch out for the pot-holes ;)

Ti-Carbo

Here is a link for the $900 wheelset
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36144&item=3682155915&rd=1

NEW 2004 ZIPP 404 700C SHIMANO/CAMPY CLINCHER. INCLUDES A SET OF TUBES...EXTRA LONG VALVE

SET OF ZIPP SKEWERS WITH PURCHASE

If I had Zipps, I'd ride them down the street to get MILK! :p

Hey BL,
What I do with my money is my business. I can get the wheelset for $300 less than your quote. I work hard to make a few extra pennies and how I spend them shouldn't concern you. I don't believe they ask for race a pedigree when you purchase any bicycle part. I just enjoy riding a nice road bike about 150 miles a week.

This is a forum for road cycling - My post has nothing to do with racing, nor have I ever posted that I want to become a racer. I guess I should buy a Wal-Mart bike so I'll be cool in your eye's huh.

You my friend, are an ass. :p

Ride Safe - and watch out for the pot-holes ;)

Ti-Carbo

I guess your missing my point.
You could spend about $600 less and buy a set of wheels that are 90% as fast and light and 1000% stronger than the Zipps. Get yourself a good set of Mavic Open Pros built on Ultegra hubs with DT Swiss double butted spokes - tried and true.

Then donate that extra $600 to feed some hungry children.
Or spend it on the Zipps to feed your ego.

- Buddy Lee

I agree with Buddy_Lee here. I have never ever seen people out just for a casual ride with a pair of 404’s. I know plenty of people with 404’s and they are only used in races.

I think Buddy_lee’s post about you being a poser sounds about right. I recall one of your other posts – if I may reference it now:

"Lance rides a Trek - I ride a Trek
Lance rides Dura Ace - I ride Dura Ace
Lance eats Power Bars - I eat Power Bars
Lance "uses" Nike - I "use" Nike
Lane wears a Giro - I wear a Giro
Lance makes 10+ Million a year - I make....errr... ooops... never mind!
Lance has won the TDF 5 Times - I'm the fastest rider on my Street! <- it's a short street!
Lance drives Subaru's - My brother-in-law has a Subaru
Lance is dating a Rock star babe - I dream about dating a rock star babe!
etc... etc... etc...
So.... how much more do you need!

Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo"

Further on in the same thread we have a telling message from Raiyn:

"<shakes head> Such a sad life you lead. Vainly trying to mirror someone else's life in a futile attempt to identify with someone you only wish would take the time to acknowledge your presence. I never understood Lancies but then again I've always thought for myself."

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=500242#post500242

Interesting.

Why Lance,

My father had Glioblastoma multiforme (GBM) which is the most common and most aggressive of the primary brain tumors. He was diagnosed at age 49. He wasn’t here to celebrate his 51st. He was really looking forward to retirement, and had made plans to enjoy life to the fullest. He never got the chance. Ever since then I have told myself that I will enjoy life everyday, because tomorrow isn’t promised to anyone.

A friend gave me a copy of "It's not about the bike" in 2002. I read it from cover to cover without stopping. I was really impressed with Lance, some of the companies he endorses (the ones that stuck with him thru his ordeal), and LAF.ORG. His story is a great one in my eyes and provides inspiration and hope to those who have been or are affected by cancer. Watching someone succumb to cancer is a horrible experience. When its terminal and nothing can be done but to wait until it claims a life, it is hard to bare.

I have been a huge fan of Lance's ever since. It “really isn’t” all about the bike!

I didn't even know what a peloton was or anything about road racing at the time I read the book. I already had my bicycle. I just pedaled for the simple fact I like to ride. I just got "lucky" when I found out he was a spokesperson for some of the bicycle related products I had and used. The post I did with the Lance and me comparisons was made in jest.

So, if it is a sad existence to be a huge Lance fan who really appreciates what he does on and off the bike, or if it is a "fashion fopa" to buy components that are for real racers only, such is life.
I got the information I was seeking in this post and I’ll be cheering Lance and Tyler on in July!!!
Thanks for the replies,

Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo <- Poser Extraordinaire – A mere pedal-pusher who dares to buy “for racers only” equipment – Violates the sanctity of the cycling elite every time he rides –

BANG!! Take that!

The only thing that bothers me with average riders riding super gear, is when they become snobs. Today, this guy with super-dooper MaviColnagCarbon everything was on my wheel for a five about five miles with a pumpin' head wind without saying anything, then we came to a red light and he snobbed me off; not even a grunt, so, BANG, i blew his doors off like he was going backwards. All this on my $800, 'ride in the rain' bike with "anvil" DP18s. :D

(Rah, rah, aint I a fat hero -- lucky it was a flat road) :)

The only thing that bothers me with average riders riding super gear, is when they become snobs. :)

I agree. It works both ways. A snob is a snob regardless of the ass-jewerly they are riding. If I'm out riding and meet another cyclist I wave, say hi and go from there. My bicycle is nothing to have a parade about. But it's mine :) and I love it!

Yeah give me a break with the f-ing "poser" talk you guys. Im just happy theres another cyclist out there who enjoys the sport. His choice in wheels has no bearing on your cycling experience. Either answer his questions in a civil and helpful manner, or shut up and ride.

I'm waiting for the tired old cliche: "you don't have to be Mario Andretti to buy a Ferrari." :D

(hmmm, has "tired old cliche" yet to become a tired old cliche?)

I say go for it. Got the money, spend it as you please. An expensive set of wheels is no more a 'waste' than a fancy colnago/pinarello frame. The whole open pro wheels are so over hyped. Sure, they are really strong---and weigh a ton. You can get a set of custom wheels like I did, traditional build, lighter than kysrium's and one off for the same price I could get a set of open pro's built up. I've never seen anyone ride with 404's or zipps for that matter, if I did I would gawk first, and then draft you because I'll be thinking 'he's got aero wheels, he can go faster than I can so he can do the work!!!'

was on my wheel for a five about five miles with a pumpin' head wind without saying anything, then we came to a red light and he snobbed me off; not even a grunt, so, BANG, i blew his doors off like he was going backwards. All this on my $800,

So who is the snob?
:rolleyes:
Someone should put these words to music (the worlds smallest violin) since they are said so often.

Yeah give me a break with the f-ing "poser" talk you guys. Im just happy theres another cyclist out there who enjoys the sport. His choice in wheels has no bearing on your cycling experience. Either answer his questions in a civil and helpful manner, or shut up and ride.

Totally with you here, bro (or sis). Can we all just get along? :)

Getting back to the thread...

My wife has a set of 404 tub. that she uses for racing. I don't race, but borrowed them from her on 2 rides and they were nice. The other wheelset that I think looks cool is the Mavic Carbone. I haven't ridden them, but I see the pros use them. Good luck.

In other words, you're going to drop at least $1200 on a set of wheels because of how they look.
You my friend, are a poser :p

Is this the guilty dog barking first? :p

Maybe, just a twinge of jealousy?

Probably, just a frustrated Fred, with no money...

Is this the guilty dog barking first? :p

Maybe, just a twinge of jealousy?

Probably, just a frustrated Fred, with no money...

Actually, I had the chance to purchase a set of these wheels at cost and passed. Thats one of the benifits of actually racing and doing well on occasion :D Like I said before (if you bothered to read the rest of my post), I wasn't impressed by the durability (or lack there-of) of the Zipp rims.

I am not a bike snob. I wave and smile to people on any bike including Huffys that I pass while out training. I think its great that they are out getting some exercise. I have happily shown more than one newbie and/or junior racer the ropes of riding in a group, fixing a flat, etc. I hate bike snobs just as much as the rest of you out there; they make our sport look bad while discouraging people from getting into cycling in the first place.

But, I just really can not stand posers that would rather look fast than actually go fast. To me, they are the other side of the same coin as the bike snobs. They buy all this expensive gear and then get dropped on the first hard climb of a group ride. Like Lance's book says "Its Not About The Bike". You also must be able to apply some power to the pedals. Maybe that's why some recreational cyclists think racers are snobs; because we aren't impressed with their expensive equipment. In order to get the respect of a racer, you must earn it by pedalling your bike. Its like class... you can't buy it. If you think you can go fast, great... prove it - pin that number on, enter a race.

Speaking of Lance, IMHO what TiCarbo should do (since he is soooo passionate about the cause) is buy a nice, light set of alloy clinchers and donate the remaining $600 of his wheel budget to the LAF.

- Buddy Lee
does not just want to "look fast"

ps. Calling someone a "Fred" makes you look a bike snob.

and calling somebody a poser while bragging about one's ability is what? Elitism?

I'm sure you are a very fine rider who could drop most anyone on this forum. My only point is that if someone has the money and they want to buy some bling, bling; more power to 'em. Good for them, good for the industry.

You're sick of beginners owning expensive equipment because you don't feel they deserve it. I'm sick of people telling other people what they do, or don't, deserve.

peace out.

So, out of curiosity- who made you the authority on what equipment a given level rider should ride? Heck, my first bike was a '02 LeMond Tourmalet- it was definitely more bike than I needed at the time.. and since then, I have *gasp* upgraded the components to ultegra/dura ace, and the wheels to a set of Shimano 7701's. Do I use the equipment to its fullest? Heck no.. I could probably bike the same speeds (a modest 17-19mph depending on the ride) on the stock equipment. Do I enjoy my new equipment? The DA/Ultegra stuff sure shifts a heck of a lot easier than that old Tiagra stuff, and the wheels, well, they have a bit more zip than the stock ones, and I enjoy them more. Am I trying to impress anyone with my equipment? No.. I am just a bit of a bike geek, and love new equipment.

If I had the money (which I dont), I probably would go ahead and get that LeMond Tete De Course I have been drooling over at the bike shop, and would probably get something along the lines of these Zipp wheels.. not to race, but to go out and cycle on. In your eyes, I am probably not worthy, but it is my pocket book, my azz in the saddle, and my legs turning the pedals on MY bike upwards of 175 miles per week, so I'll get whatever the heck I want.


Actually, I had the chance to purchase a set of these wheels at cost and passed. Thats one of the benifits of actually racing and doing well on occasion :D Like I said before (if you bothered to read the rest of my post), I wasn't impressed by the durability (or lack there-of) of the Zipp rims.

I am not a bike snob. I wave and smile to people on any bike including Huffys that I pass while out training. I think its great that they are out getting some exercise. I have happily shown more than one newbie and/or junior racer the ropes of riding in a group, fixing a flat, etc. I hate bike snobs just as much as the rest of you out there; they make our sport look bad while discouraging people from getting into cycling in the first place.

But, I just really can not stand posers that would rather look fast than actually go fast. To me, they are the other side of the same coin as the bike snobs. They buy all this expensive gear and then get dropped on the first hard climb of a group ride. Like Lance's book says "Its Not About The Bike". You also must be able to apply some power to the pedals. Maybe that's why some recreational cyclists think racers are snobs; because we aren't impressed with their expensive equipment. In order to get the respect of a racer, you must earn it by pedalling your bike. Its like class... you can't buy it. If you think you can go fast, great... prove it - pin that number on, enter a race.

Speaking of Lance, IMHO what TiCarbo should do (since he is soooo passionate about the cause) is buy a nice, light set of alloy clinchers and donate the remaining $600 of his wheel budget to the LAF.

- Buddy Lee
does not just want to "look fast"

ps. Calling someone a "Fred" makes you look a bike snob.

Speaking of Lance, IMHO what TiCarbo should do (since he is soooo passionate about the cause) is buy a nice, light set of alloy clinchers and donate the remaining $600 of his wheel budget to the LAF.


Hey Buddy Lee - Check out Relay for life http://www.cancer.org/docroot/GI/gi_1.asp?sitearea=GI my mother enters every year. It helps her in ways I can't explain. I sponser her team every year. They are people she has met thru the relays and http://www.abta.org/

I attended the first couple relays with her, but it was not for me. I think the memories are just a bit to much. I try and do what I can in other ways.

The relays can become very emotional when you see all Luminaries and realize that it represents someone who passed due to cancer. The upside is that these people walk a track for 24 hours straight, and raise money to help those who need it and offer support to people who are going thru the same path in life.

I'm not much for slinging crap on the Internet and I come to this site to get news, tips and tricks, and general banter. I never thought a question about a wheelset would go here.

Good luck with your racing.

Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo

Hey Buddy Lee - Check out Relay for life http://www.cancer.org/docroot/GI/gi_1.asp?sitearea=GI my mother enters every year. It helps her in ways I can't explain. I sponser her team every year. They are people she has met thru the relays and http://www.abta.org/

I attended the first couple relays with her, but it was not for me. I think the memories are just a bit to much. I try and do what I can in other ways.

The relays can become very emotional when you see all Luminaries and realize that it represents someone who passed due to cancer. The upside is that these people walk a track for 24 hours straight, and raise money to help those who need it and offer support to people who are going thru the same path in life.

I'm not much for slinging crap on the Internet and I come to this site to get news, tips and tricks, and general banter. I never thought a question about a wheelset would go here.

Good luck with your racing.

Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo

That's cool.

I to have a lot of respect for LA, though I do think a lot of p33ps are jumping on the cycling bandwagon because of him. Not that that's a bad thing. I'll just be real curious how many of them actually stick with it once LA starts losing; which is enevitable as time waits for no one.

Last year my uncle died from lung cancer caused by years of smoking. I gave him LA's first book in the belief that it just might give him some hope and the will to keep fighting. But I guess the disease was too far advanced when discovered, he wasn't as young or in as good of shape as LA, nor did he have the monetary resources to hire the best doctors. The sad part is that he brought it on himself by smoking.

You go ahead and spend your money how you like. I just thought I would offer my insight, FWIW.
IMHO, you'd be better off with a set of light clinchers as they would be less delicate. But if you are a light rider, are real gentle on your equipment, never ride in a group, or ride on perfect roads, then you might never have any problems with the Zipps. Also, the clinchers might not break as easily as the tubular rims which I saw breaking as (I beleive) they have an allow breaking surface.

Good luck,

- Buddy "likes old school equipment 'cause it lasts" Lee

So who is the snob?
:rolleyes:
Someone should put these words to music (the worlds smallest violin) since they are said so often.

BOOOM!! His head-light looked like shooting star, it was moving away so quickly :D

You're right, of course. He could've been particularly shy, or manic depressive, or whatever.
There's obviously stacks of reasons people don't wanna talk.

They are extremely fast, and very light, kind of the best of both worlds. His claim is that at speed, they are ~ 1-1.25mph faster than a Ksyrium equivilant wheelset.

The Zipps just look cool. I think if I ever get a bling wheelset I'll go for the Zipps.(I like how they use regular spokes too)

All this talk about X wheelset being .5 or 1.0 mph faster than another wheelset....that's stretching the truth by a mile...literally. But who cares those rims are the best looking rims on the market and a lot of people drop almost as much money on wheels but don't gain the bling factor.


The other wheelset that I think looks cool is the Mavic Carbone. I haven't ridden them, but I see the pros use them. Good luck.

Those are cool too. Too bad they use special spokes.