Living Car Free - Is it too dangerous to let kids ride bikes to school?

Lenore Skenazy (http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/) doesn't think so, but some school districts do:


This one comes from blogger Denise Gonzalez-Walker. It’s the rules for getting to school in a district near Seattle. Please note the bolded words:

Bicycles

Students in grades 4,5 and 6 may ride bikes, roller blades, skateboards and non-motor scooters to school. According to Highline District policy, a protective helmet must be worn when riding a bike, skateboard, scooter or roller blades to school. District policy also prohibits the riding of bicycles to and from school by children in grades K-3, even when accompanied by an adult (policy #3424).

That’s right. Parents are forbidden to bike with their kids to school in the early grades. Even if the parents believe their kids are ready. Even if the parents want to show them how to ride safely! As Denise points out, “Policies like this discourage teaching opportunities.”

Meanwhile, what opportunities do they encourage? Driving! More chance for kids to sit passively and be dropped off.

Where is the sense in that? In my book, I point out that 50% of the children hit by cars near schools are hit by cars driven by parents dropping off THEIR children because they’re afraid of THEM being hit by cars. So if everyone just quit driving their kids to school, we’d already see a 50% drop in injuries!

A no-biking policy like this calls for action on the part of parents – approaching the PTA or school board and saying, “Who is this policy supposed to serve? We want our kids to be active and we want to teach them how to be safe. This policy thwarts both.”

But feel free to use a stronger word than thwarts. – Lenore

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/free-range-kids-outrage-of-the-week-no-biking-to-school/

District policy also prohibits the riding of bicycles to and from school by children in grades K-3, even when accompanied by an adult (policy #3424).
On the other hand I think it's okay with them for 4th graders and up to ride to school unaccompanied by an adult, as long as they wear a helmet. I might want to quibble about whether a bicycle policy is needed, or why it isn't okay when accompanied by an adult, or exactly where to draw the lines by grade and age, but I don't think those guidelines are completely unreasonable.

I think it's more of a problem when schools are placed in locations that are not bicycle or pedestrian friendly. That sometimes leads to absolute no-biking policies.

The school has no say in how the kids get to school. The only thing they can regulate is bike parking and use on school grounds. So I say, find alternate parking and ignore this policy.

It is a hard choice I guess. In some school districts the Principal has complete control of bike riding to the school. In other places it is just the School board. But there are also state laws that effect the decision some districts make. Some principles in one of our school districts simply had all bike racks removed and didn’t allow bikes on the school grounds.

When I was a kid we could ride a bike almost from the time we could walk to school by ourselves. They even provided bike riding safely courses. I can even remember getting my first bicycle license so I could ride to school. It just so happened that was a requirement at our school at that time. The license was a small sticker applied by the local police department or fire department.

But today many Schools are placed pretty close to busy streets with no bike lanes. Not the best situation when children are involved.

We do have a few students at my k-8 school who ride their bikes to school, but not very many, and those few are largely the result of a single bicycling parent who ferries a convoy of students to school in good weather, teaching the kids road skills along the way. The vast majority of our students arrive at school in a Prius or hybrid SUV. (It's Seattle, after all.)

Most parents I've spoken with about bicycling wouldn't even consider letting their children ride a bike to school most days. It's dangerous, and their kid has a soccer game/ballet lesson/ortho appointment 20 miles away at 4:00. I don't blame them at all. It's not at all about the safety of bicycles. The car-centric mindset has destroyed our sense of distance and time, and parents are, at their core, terrified at the possibility of an Amber Alert involving their child.

But today many Schools are placed pretty close to busy streets with no bike lanes. Not the best situation when children are involved.

It seems like parents and the PTOs would be good lobbyists for getting streets safer for children (and adults) to walk and bike on. But there's clearly a culture of fear in America. Rather than approach safety issues rationally, we coddle and cosset our kids and make them even more fearful than we are.

I blame it on TV and the internet. Our low birthrate might play a part also.

We live in Fl and Ky, during the school year in Ky, on a nice day at my kids school there will be 40 or so bikes, and about 1/2 of the 400 students walk to school. But it is a very conservative area where people are more likely to walk the walk, than say Seattle where they just talk the talk.

So I guess I was a free-range kid.

I started pedaling to school in 2nd grade. And that included riding along and crossing the highest traffic road on the Gulf Coast of Florida. All the kids did. We thought nothing of it.

The problem is all the SUV moms, not kids riding to school.

So I guess I was a free-range kid.

I started pedaling to school in 2nd grade. And that included riding along and crossing the highest traffic road on the Gulf Coast of Florida. All the kids did. We thought nothing of it.

The problem is all the SUV moms, not kids riding to school.

Sounds about like me. I started riding in the 3rd grade and had to cross a multilane highway. Now I am sure my parents would get arrested and charged with child endangerment:rolleyes: My two went to a neighborhood school for a while (until the friggin colored marble counters got into the act:notamused:) I rode them to school, for a while on a trail a bike, and then on their own individual bikes.

Aaron:)

Here's the scene after school at the school where I teach.

A line of cars stretches out the parking lot and into the street, blocking one lane. As the roll past the front of the school at idle speeds, kids stand, waiting for their ride, breathing what must be a very unhealthy level of pollutants. Then, when the children, especially the younger ones, spot their parents car, they often break off at a run, towards the car.

Many parents try to circumvent the line of cars. If they pass by the school, and don't see their child, they will often park in the lot. Then they will stand by the car and yell out their child's name. The child will then attempt to dart across the line of cars unless one of the teachers stops them. I've reprimanded many students and parents for doing this.

Other parents will instruct their kids to walk to the parking lot of the church next to the school. There they will be waiting in the car as the children navigate their way across a busy parking lot full of other parents doing exactly the same thing.

Finally, some parents will instruct their kids to walk to some predetermined location off school grounds where they will be picked up. This creates a whole host of hazards including risks of automobile collisions when cars are stopping in places where they don't normally stop.

There have been strong verbal altercations between school staff and parents who claim that they do these things because they are in a hurry. They are often in a hurry, since our overcrowded school district often assigns siblings to different elementary schools.

I've suggested that we crack down on certain things, namely the church parking lot by prohibiting children from entering it without an adult. This would force parents to park and walk onto the campus to retrieve their child. The only problem is the reason they do this, and the reason the whole "drive through" approach to picking up the kids is so pervasive. Many of the parents at our school are stay-at-home moms who have younger infants and toddlers. It's too much of a problem to take those kids out of their car seats and carry them while walk onto school grounds get their older siblings, so they feel it's a right to drive up to the school, open the door and have the kid hop in.

Whenever I've asked parents why they don't let their kids walk or bike to school, the most often cited reason is not traffic safety but rather the perceived risk of the child being snatched by a stranger. Megans Law, which has greatly enhanced the safety of children from this danger, has also greatly increased the perception of this danger due to the freakout factor when parents find out that there are convicted sex offenders living near them. What they don't realized is that those same criminals were probably in their neighborhoods when they were growing up. It's just that nobody knew where they lived.

What I've tried to point out, mostly without much success, is that a childs overall risk of death or injury travelling to and from school is most likely greater if they get picked up in a car than if they walk or bike. One fact is that every accident (fortunately all have been minor) that we've had involving children and cars have been cases where a child was being picked up and the driver has always been a parent driving their child to or from school. Pedestrian and bicycling children have been accident free.

But today many Schools are placed pretty close to busy streets with no bike lanes. Not the best situation when children are involved.

The biggest safety issue around school is....

Parents dropping their kids off and crazy bus drivers.

The absolute most dangerous part of my last commute was passing in front of the school... they had grades K-12 all right next to each other... I had far more close calls there than at any other point of my 10 mile commute...

http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2008-04-29

What I've tried to point out, mostly without much success, is that a childs overall risk of death or injury travelling to and from school is most likely greater if they get picked up in a car than if they walk or bike. One fact is that every accident (fortunately all have been minor) that we've had involving children and cars have been cases where a child was being picked up and the driver has always been a parent driving their child to or from school. Pedestrian and bicycling children have been accident free.

You tried to point this out, but no one wanted to hear. They still think the earth is flat.

With the amount of schools running into financial troubles, you would think that promoting cycling and walking to ease the burden on transportation would be common sense.

This thread made me think about the heyday of the 10 speed in 1972, especially at Universities.

It didn't happen out of the blue. Youth prepared for it since the early 60s riding their Schwinn's to school.

With the amount of schools running into financial troubles, you would think that promoting cycling and walking to ease the burden on transportation would be common sense.

R-I-G-H-T...:roflmao2:

They will increase class size, lay off teaching assistants and anything else before they even consider that. Exactly what is happening in NC at this time. God forbid that little Johnny/Suzie have to walk more than 25' to the bus stop, besides that mean old pedophile on the corner is just waiting to jump out and grab them.:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

Wow I guess we have it good at my kid's school. On a decent day 1/2 the kids walk/bike.

Wow I guess we have it good at my kid's school. On a decent day 1/2 the kids walk/bike.

They can't at the schools nearest my house, they are on a narrow high speed two lane road with no sidewalks. The subdivisions don't have side walks either and dump onto the same road(s).

Aaron:)

I walked to school every day of the school year through 12 Michigan winters. We would have thought a classmate who got a ride was odd or spoiled.

According to the Free Range lady, crime rates are substantially lower now than they were during the years when I walked to school. Nevertheless, today's parents are afraid that their children will be abducted or killed by a stranger on the way to school. This is very rare, and would be even rarer if there were more kids out walking and biking, as there is greater safety in numbers.

We live in Fl and Ky, during the school year in Ky, on a nice day at my kids school there will be 40 or so bikes, and about 1/2 of the 400 students walk to school. But it is a very conservative area where people are more likely to walk the walk, than say Seattle where they just talk the talk.

That remark was uncalled for, mister. The parents at my school are probably a little too paranoid about their kids, but it is a big city, with big city problems and big city traffic. The biggest reason more kids don't ride is probably the kids' after-school activities, which, more often than not, do not involve shooting at empty beer cans out in front of the mobile home. In addition, there are several car-free families at my school, and a surprisingly large percentage of parents commute to work by bike, foot or bus. There are also many, many families who only have one car, even though they could almost all afford to own two if they wanted to. They may be wound a little too tightly, but they do, in fact, walk the walk. They also voted for Obama in overwhelming numbers, hooray!

I guess that I was a free range kid, I grew up in a small rural village (pop.+/-500) If we (my brother and/or sister) sister wanted to go anywhere the choice was walk or ride your bike.
Although riding to school wasn't really an option for us as children,All the kids in town were bused to Farmington (about 12 miles away)for school.
The one in our town/village self destructed in '68 as I recall.The roof fell in. I can remember going to school in that old two room school,vaguely,Kindergarten & first grade.

Here's the scene after school at the school where I teach.

A line of cars stretches out the parking lot and into the street, blocking one lane. As the roll past the front of the school at idle speeds, kids stand, waiting for their ride, breathing what must be a very unhealthy level of pollutants. Then, when the children, especially the younger ones, spot their parents car, they often break off at a run, towards the car.

Many parents try to circumvent the line of cars. If they pass by the school, and don't see their child, they will often park in the lot. Then they will stand by the car and yell out their child's name. The child will then attempt to dart across the line of cars unless one of the teachers stops them. I've reprimanded many students and parents for doing this.

Other parents will instruct their kids to walk to the parking lot of the church next to the school. There they will be waiting in the car as the children navigate their way across a busy parking lot full of other parents doing exactly the same thing.

Finally, some parents will instruct their kids to walk to some predetermined location off school grounds where they will be picked up. This creates a whole host of hazards including risks of automobile collisions when cars are stopping in places where they don't normally stop.

There have been strong verbal altercations between school staff and parents who claim that they do these things because they are in a hurry. They are often in a hurry, since our overcrowded school district often assigns siblings to different elementary schools.

I've suggested that we crack down on certain things, namely the church parking lot by prohibiting children from entering it without an adult. This would force parents to park and walk onto the campus to retrieve their child. The only problem is the reason they do this, and the reason the whole "drive through" approach to picking up the kids is so pervasive. Many of the parents at our school are stay-at-home moms who have younger infants and toddlers. It's too much of a problem to take those kids out of their car seats and carry them while walk onto school grounds get their older siblings, so they feel it's a right to drive up to the school, open the door and have the kid hop in.

This sounds really familiar. I've actually had shouting matches with mothers (yes, more than one) who were incensed that I wouldn't let their kid dart between cars in the carpool line. I'm kind of surprised that there are parents out there that think that their personal convenience is more important than the safety of all the kids at the school. (I must say, though, that most parents are not like this, and even appreciate the safety precautions.)

I agree with you that most parents' decision not to let their kids ride bikes or walk to school is usually motivated by factors other than traffic safety. Having an unknown person randomly prey on their child is a very real, even visceral fear for many parents, even though the odds of that happening are less than the odds of getting hit by lightning.

does a school actually have any legal right to say how the kids get there?

I doubt it.... fools4

2 of my 3 my kids ride everyday in nice weather, actually one says walking is stupid and rides every day, summer, winter, rian, shine, snow, whatever he is on his bike, he is 16 and been doing this since grade 4.... the 3rd rides on occasion....

in fact their teachers have said to them all that they have to come on their own starting in grade 3... by grade 4 tehy really expect all the kids to get themselves to school.

I would even say that carpooling jr. to school is one of hte worst things parents can do for a kid....

BTW, we live in a major city, population 2 million.... that means there a lot of cars, and what sucks is Hungarians just do not abide by the traffic laws... but I have taught my kids well -i think - and they are careful and love their bikes....

when the youngest was still a toddler and not in school I would stick him in a baby seat and escort the oldest to school by bike, the youngest loved going to get his brother at the end of school because he often ended up playing in the play ground at the school with other toddlers whose parents were waiting for their older kids....

anybody who came by car, parked it and walked into the school and waited there, those in a hurry did not play in the playground but they did not make their kids walk down busy roads ecause tehy were too lazy to park.


robi

I used to ride past the k-8 school in my neighborhood and see very small kids on very small bikes. They'd park those tiny bikes outside on the bike racks. Mom or dad would ride with the small ones. This is in Ward 1 in DC. The kids ride on the sidewalk. Biking kids in DC don't seem to get off the sidewalk until they're about 11 or so.

Something that the parents do at another elementary school is organize bike convoys or walking busses. The get the kids in a group and bike or walk together. Its like a mix between critical mass and safety in numbers concept. Its difficult for the suburban drivers rushing downtown to claim they didn't see 20 kids and two adults so they stop, where they would have no problem pushing a single person out of a crosswalk or worse. The school with the bike convoys seems to be over in the richer side of the park, with the more affluent "helicopter" parents. The school where the kids walk or bike more individually is on the poorer side of the park.

It seems like parents and the PTOs would be good lobbyists for getting streets safer for children (and adults) to walk and bike on. But there's clearly a culture of fear in America. Rather than approach safety issues rationally, we coddle and cosset our kids and make them even more fearful than we are.

I blame it on TV and the internet. Our low birthrate might play a part also.

the PTO is 1/2 or more of the problem Roody.
I can't tell you how many giant SUV's are in the school parking lot with people behind the wheel with a cell phone shoved so deep in their ear a proctologist is needed to find it at the PTO meetings here.

With the amount of schools running into financial troubles, you would think that promoting cycling and walking to ease the burden on transportation would be common sense.

I often wonder if there was some agenda to encourage car ridership as a method for reducing busing costs.

Can you imagine the panic that would ensue should every car rider decide to take the bus next year? Most school districts in the country would likely be bankrupt.

-------

I fail to see why so many parents dismiss the bus as an option. Around me, even if kids do ride the bus it means parents standing at bus stops, or more likely idling in their cars.

It seems like parents and the PTOs would be good lobbyists for getting streets safer for children (and adults) to walk and bike on. But there's clearly a culture of fear in America. Rather than approach safety issues rationally, we coddle and cosset our kids and make them even more fearful than we are.

I blame it on TV and the internet. Our low birthrate might play a part also.

The fear people have today for just about everything is a constant annoyance to me, because these people are generally the ones who won't just stop at protecting their own kids, they'll try to force the "solution" on everyone.

I feel sorry for today's kids and really can't imagine what they will be like when they become parents.

That remark was uncalled for, mister. The parents at my school are probably a little too paranoid about their kids, but it is a big city, with big city problems and big city traffic. The biggest reason more kids don't ride is probably the kids' after-school activities, which, more often than not, do not involve shooting at empty beer cans out in front of the mobile home. In addition, there are several car-free families at my school, and a surprisingly large percentage of parents commute to work by bike, foot or bus. There are also many, many families who only have one car, even though they could almost all afford to own two if they wanted to. They may be wound a little too tightly, but they do, in fact, walk the walk. They also voted for Obama in overwhelming numbers, hooray!


Giving your willingness to excuse the behavior, you must be part of the "precipitate".

Do you really believe that their appt. 20 miles away every afternoon is an acceptable excuse? Some of us consider that to be another part of the problem.

the PTO is 1/2 or more of the problem Roody.
I can't tell you how many giant SUV's are in the school parking lot with people behind the wheel with a cell phone shoved so deep in their ear a proctologist is needed to find it at the PTO meetings here.


There's a personality type that's drawn to PTO leadership. They're the same people that are on your homeowners board telling you what color you can or can't paint your house. Usually, it's the last person most people would want for the job.

I started riding to school in the first grade but I grew up in a small town and the ride to school and anywhere was not that far for me to go.

The bike racks extended the full length of the building and matched the capacity of the school as almost ever kid rode.

Now I live in a large city and the distance between my daughter's school and home is 42 blocks / 4 miles.

Because the route is perilous and I do worry about the safety of my daughters I ride them to school and at 9 and 11 they do not have an issue riding much longer distances than this...we have covered as much as 20 miles in a day.

The bike racks at my daughter's school would not provide enough storage for 10% of the student body but they are quite thankfully full every morning.

I read an article about a 7 year old here that commutes 90 blocks a day with his dad and my daughter's were quite thrilled to hear this.

Giving your willingness to excuse the behavior, you must be part of the "precipitate".

Do you really believe that their appt. 20 miles away every afternoon is an acceptable excuse? Some of us consider that to be another part of the problem.

No, I don't think it's reasonable to feel the need to cart kids around to multiple activities many miles away every day; in fact, I think it's insane. I don't condone this type of thinking at all, but I can see where it comes from, given the priorities of our culture. I can also see the wisdom of not always telling a really stressed-out, latte-addicted, SUV-driving supermom that her well-intentioned but crazy parenting strategies are making her and her kids totally neurotic, especially since I don't have kids of my own. All I can do, really, is to provide a structured yet relaxed atmosphere in my classroom, and to prevent her kid from getting run over in the carpool lane.

No, I don't think it's reasonable to feel the need to cart kids around to multiple activities many miles away every day; in fact, I think it's insane. I don't condone this type of thinking at all, but I can see where it comes from, given the priorities of our culture. I can also see the wisdom of not always telling a really stressed-out, latte-addicted, SUV-driving supermom that her well-intentioned but crazy parenting strategies are making her and her kids totally neurotic, especially since I don't have kids of my own. All I can do, really, is to provide a structured yet relaxed atmosphere in my classroom, and to prevent her kid from getting run over in the carpool lane.

Your point is well taken, but I'm sure that you do a lot more good for those students than the two things you admit to. :)

Why don't kids do local activities? We had after school stuff in the school, and activities at the Y and local churches. On Saturdays we took classes at the Detroit Institute of Arts--5 or 6 miles on a city bus. We also had a lot of unstructured time, which we used both wisely and unwisely. How come kids have to go so far away now?

When I'm out working around the yard early in the morning, I see a handful of kids (around the ages of 5-10) riding to school (sometimes by themselves)

I think it's ridiculous to say that kids that age can not ride EVEN with an adult. IMO the school board should have ZERO say in how kids get to school.

Your point is well taken, but I'm sure that you do a lot more good for those students than the two things you admit to. :)

Why don't kids do local activities? We had after school stuff in the school, and activities at the Y and local churches. On Saturdays we took classes at the Detroit Institute of Arts--5 or 6 miles on a city bus. We also had a lot of unstructured time, which we used both wisely and unwisely. How come kids have to go so far away now?

Local activities have all but ceased to exist in many area, partially due to the the sprawl of housing. In the larger city nearest me (where I basically grew up) we used to have neighborhood rec centers, most of those are gone. They built a huge soccer complex out on the edge of town and all of the games moved out their, they did the same thing with baseball fields too. Movie theaters and shopping did the same thing. The movie theaters are all only accessible by 6 lane highways. Bus service is their but given the decline in the class of riders I doubt too many parents would allow their kids on the buses unaccompanied, I know I would have serious doubts about it and I let my kids have pretty free reign once the proved their responsibility.

Aaron:)

...these people are generally the ones who won't just stop at protecting their own kids, they'll try to force the "solution" on everyone.



There's a personality type that's drawn to PTO leadership. They're the same people that are on your homeowners board telling you what color you can or can't paint your house. Usually, it's the last person most people would want for the job.


...Do you really believe that their appt. 20 miles away every afternoon is an acceptable excuse? Some of us consider that to be another part of the problem.


Yes, those concerned parents and darn PTO types always telling other people what to do. Next thing you know, they'll be telling people it's not acceptable to drive their kids to sports or music 20 miles away every afternoon. The gall of some people. Unbelievable.

Yes, those concerned parents and darn PTO types always telling other people what to do. Next thing you know, they'll be telling people it's not acceptable to drive their kids to sports or music 20 miles away every afternoon. The gall of some people. Unbelievable.

Show me one single post of mine EVER where I've advocated imposing my will on others. You won't find it.

My key issue, and the one that seems to have gone over your head, is there is a difference between not liking something yourself and trying to impose your feelings on everyone else.

Show me one single post of mine EVER where I've advocated imposing my will on others. You won't find it.

My key issue, and the one that seems to have gone over your head, is there is a difference between not liking something yourself and trying to impose your feelings on everyone else.

Won't find it? You're kidding, right? Your post, which I quoted above, about other's "willingness to excuse the behavior", "acceptable excuses" and things that you see as "another part of the problem" doesn't ring a bell? There's not advocacy of imposing "your will" on others there? Really? you can't see that?

Going over my head? Dude.

There is a big difference between one's thoughts on a subject and how they express those thoughts.

There is a big difference between one's thoughts on a subject and how they express those thoughts.
Umm, the thoughts were expressed. The thoughts were posted on an internet forum for others to see. Am I missing something here?

Yes. Was there anything that said he specifically took these ideas to people and forced his views? Not from what I read.

Umm, the thoughts were expressed. The thoughts were posted on an internet forum for others to see. Am I missing something here?

Yes you are missing something. He implied that he didn't approve of some people's behavior. He might even have implied that he would put social pressure and persuasion on them to get them to change their behavior. He didn't say that he approved of actions like sabotage or oppressive rules to force them to change their behavior.

As far as I can tell, the only instance of somebody forcibly imposing their will on other people would be the school officials who decreed that kids can't bike to school, even when accompanied by their parents.

Where do you stand on that, Mr. Civil Liberties?

Yes you are missing something. He implied that he didn't approve of some people's behavior. He might even have implied that he would put social pressure and persuasion on them to get them to change their behavior. He didn't say that he approved of actions like sabotage or oppressive rules to force them to change their behavior.

As far as I can tell, the only instance of somebody forcibly imposing their will on other people would be the school officials who decreed that kids can't bike to school, even when accompanied by their parents.

Where do you stand on that, Mr. Civil Liberties?

Mr. Civil Liberties: I like that name.

I think people, especially those who work for the government, who like to tell others what to do are generally busybodies without enough real work to do. It's none of the school's business how kids get there (unless it's on their buses).

Just more crap....Isn't that what parents are for?

I think the teachers should worry a little more about teaching,not how the kids get there.I think we have the dumbest kids on the planet per money spent.I see teenage kids that can't count money!!

What do you mean can't count money? they don't know there are 100 cents in a dollar or something?

I mean,if you buy something for 1.29 and give them a $10,They don't know how much to give back to you.If the register didn't tell them,they woundn't know.It means they need calculators to do basic math.They have to have PSA's on TV to show them how to go outside and play.I MEAN KIDS ARE STUPID.All they know is what computers and TV teaches them...STUPID.Get off the DAMN PHONE ALREADY! Take that crap out of your ear and join the world.

Don't have a cow,I'm NOT talking about YOUR kids.I'm talking about kids in general,at least the ones I run into in California.Kids are not kids anymore.Nobody lets them make mistakes and learn from it.Everybody wants to have their kid live in a protective bubble,sheltered from all of the bad things out there.Well guess what,when they get older,their going to have to deal with it and they won't know how.

I mean,if you buy something for 1.29 and give them a $10,They don't know how much to give back to you.If the register didn't tell them,they woundn't know.It means they need calculators to do basic math.They have to have PSA's on TV to show them how to go outside and play.I MEAN KIDS ARE STUPID.All they know is what computers and TV teaches them...STUPID.Get off the DAMN PHONE ALREADY! Take that crap out of your ear and join the world.

Don't have a cow,I'm NOT talking about YOUR kids.I'm talking about kids in general,at least the ones I run into in California.Kids are not kids anymore.Nobody lets them make mistakes and learn from it.Everybody wants to have their kid live in a protective bubble,sheltered from all of the bad things out there.Well guess what,when they get older,their going to have to deal with it and they won't know how.

The space bar is the big one in the middle. :thumb:


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It's fine to say the school shouldn't worry about how students get there until some idiot runs over a kid walking to school, some idiot parent decides to sue the school and 12 idiots award them millions in damages from the school system.

I'm not advocating banning walking - just pointing out that our legal system is so screwed that it's a no-win situation for school administrators, especially the spineless ones. If you ban walking, then some idiot can't sue you because their kid got hurt. I'm just waiting for someone to sue the school because their kid got hurt as they (the parent) were driving them to school. All hell will break loose then.

My former school district has always had a 1 mile rule for grades 5+ where they wouldn't run buses. due to budget shortfalls they have increased this to 2 miles. they also started limiting the number of student drivers to high school, due to limited number of parking spaces. I have no idea if it has increased the number of ppl riding their bikes.

I think the teachers should worry a little more about teaching,not how the kids get there.

To be fair, teachers don't usually have the say on how kids can get to school- those policy edicts come from higher levels in the system.


Kids are not kids anymore.

To be sure, there's lots of overprotection going on. Earlier this year I climbed a tree to free a radio controlled airplane and got the gratitude of a man and several kids who were staring up from the ground trying to figure out how to get it down, including a couple of boys nearly my size. It wasn't hard, your average 12 year old from years ago would have thought nothing of it. Can't have the kids climbing trees, I guess. It really struck me that they thought I'd done something daring.

Found out today that the summer camp I am working at requires parent's to sign a waiver for kid's to borrow someone's sunscreen.

Also had a kid ask me if we had scissors they could use really quick. I had no problem giving them to her. When I was at scout camp, we all had pocket knives. My co-worker looked at me and questioned why I was giving the kid scissors.

Found out today that the summer camp I am working at requires parent's to sign a waiver for kid's to borrow someone's sunscreen.

Honestly, you should have asked for a waiver before even sharing this information on the internet! I mean, what if one of us uses this information to hurt him/herself, and a court decides YOU are liable?!

:innocent: