Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Do walkers hate bike riders?

After having to share a bike / walk trial with many people today I started to wonder if walkers get annoyed by us. Dragging my kids behind me I take up a considerable amount of room on the path, and I always slow down and move over as much as I can. But I did notice a few expressions that didn't come off as friendly. This held especially true for the "Dog walkers" that were forced to reel in their pooch.

Just curious if you guys have even gotten the same vibe.

Also since I am on the topic of people disliking bikers, why do so many motorist also hate the share the road? I am always respectful and move well over to give bikers room but have always noticed people going out of their way to get super close or act as ignorant as possible?

:)

Motorists hate to share probably because a combination of lack of speed and the occasional stop blower. Walkers probably don't like us because we are 'faster' than them and silent, and constitute some danger. Now, most of us are probably fine, but there are those that form a petelon and turn the MUP into their personal Alps trial. I hate them too. For some reason the MUPs tend to go near residential areas by design, so I suppose the walkers adopt them in their heads as 'theirs'. I don't stop to take a dump on the trail, or jump at another rider or walker, so i really don't know what issues they would have with a biker.

The only two actual created trails that I ride (excluding my trespassing on the golf course) is the Cape La Croix trail in Cape Girardeau, MO and the Tunnel Hill Trail in Southern Illinois. I do notice your exact behaviors on the city trail in Cape, especially the dog walkers. And of course, they are taking up the full width of the trail between themselves and the pooch and yet they look at me with a look of disdain that says "you should not be allowed on here with your "vehicle".

The Tunnel Hill trail, is a much wider trail and I usually do not experience anything be the best behavior out of all the participants. Except for one time when I was coming back down the trail and met a woman who was training for some big race and she had her entourage with her, timing and taking pics and cheerleading or something. Anyway, as I approached I was told to stop and pull over to "allow" her to pass:notamused: I didn't budge. I was way over on my side of a trail that is probably 10ft wide at a minimum. Man, they were creating ice cubes with their eyes as I passed by.

btw....I see you are Lake St. Louis. If you ever get a chance to get south, look me up and we can do a Tunnel Hill Trail ride. I am always looking folk to introduce to this beautiful gem.

Well, I would hazard a guess and say the walkers get annoyed with cyclists because a some of us don't pay attention where we're going, stop signs, call "on yer left," etc. This thread reminded me of last year when I was teaching my youngest about "onyerleft" in one of the state parks. We were passing a couple of peds and he called it out. While calling it out we were passed by a couple of people on mountain bikes, who didn't. Basically, they passed us when we were passing peds. This was on a MUP, with lines and speed limits. They then blew off a stop sign up ahead, with heavy vehicle traffic. I'm betting if the cop who was chewing out a driver for ignoring his orders wasn't busy, he probably would've liked to have talked to them. Seriously, blow off a stop sign with a cop sitting there?? :roflmao2:

After having to share a bike / walk trial with many people today I started to wonder if walkers get annoyed by us. Dragging my kids behind me I take up a considerable amount of room on the path, and I always slow down and move over as much as I can. But I did notice a few expressions that didn't come off as friendly. This held especially true for the "Dog walkers" that were forced to reel in their pooch.

Just curious if you guys have even gotten the same vibe.

Also since I am on the topic of people disliking bikers, why do so many motorist also hate the share the road? I am always respectful and move well over to give bikers room but have always noticed people going out of their way to get super close or act as ignorant as possible?

:)

The ones that get me are the meat pylons, this is usually either a older male or small child, who like to stand in the middle of the path, and nobody should dare to pass them, it's like they have staked a claim on that portion of the path. Of course it's usually at a point where going off the path to go around them isn't easy, like a gateway or where there are stands of trees on both sides or the middle of a bridge. Man do you get a dirty look if you pass them, even very slowly. People can be weird sometimes.

Meat pylons? LOL

People can be weird sometimes.

People are strange.

Yep. And then there is the soccer mom who has her little immaculate conception with her and thinks that everyone else is as infatuated as she is by how adorable he is zig zagging all over the MUP.

Meat pylons? LOL

+1 :thumb: for meat pylons.

I admire wogsterca's cynical views. Makes me all warm and fuzzy:D

There is nothing "immaculate" about their conception. Unless the 2 bottles of wine make the memory a little foggy. "Precious snowflake" is the proper term (I have 2 of them).

If you ever get a chance to get south, look me up and we can do a Tunnel Hill Trail ride. I am always looking folk to introduce to this beautiful gem.

I just looked that trail up and it looks awesome, very scenic! How hilly is it? I would love to take you up on that offer, especially towards the end of summer / early fall once we get in a touch better shape.

I'm glad everyone else has noticed it as well, I figured I was just being over paranoid. Hehe, Meat Pylon, I ran into one of those last week, older gentleman didn't feel like moving aside... ugh. I wouldn't care if I wasn't pulling my kids but its tough with the trailer to hop off the trail usually to go around.

I just looked that trail up and it looks awesome, very scenic! How hilly is it? I would love to take you up on that offer, especially towards the end of summer / early fall once we get in a touch better shape.

Not hilly at all. It is a Rail Trail so the grades are very low. The 10 miles up to the tunnel from Vienna is a very slight incline, at maybe 250ft over the 10 miles, so no big deal, and the treat that you get on the return trip on the decline is the best.

Look me up. I work from home and go anytime.

Jay

I know when I walk and take pictures on the espanade in Portland, I get irritated with the cyclist that don't slow down, and do buzz the walkers. People just have to remember that patience is a learned skill and not something there born with.

+1 :thumb: for meat pylons.

I admire wogsterca's cynical views. Makes me all warm and fuzzy:D

Me, cynical, your kidding, right :innocent:

The problem with the MUP really, is that few users know how they are supposed to act. If your on a street, there are specific rules and regulations, that are rather specific and well known. The Martin Goodman Trail in Toronto, has large signs that provide the rules of that trail, basically the rules are to keep right except for passing, only pass when the opposite lane of the trail is clear. If you must stop, get off the trail. Cyclists seem to follow this pretty closely, joggers/runners maybe 75%, the rest can be found just about anywhere on the trail, but usually will move into the proper lane if you ring your bell. Lanes are about 1.5m wide and there is a green and blue stripe down the middle. It's about the closest you can find to a no motor vehicle highway.

Few MUPs though have posted rules, so people do not generally act in a caring and sharing manner. Rules like on the Martin Goodman would be a good start, however it means that trails would need to be wider and require lane markings.

Locally it's not the pedestrians that give us trouble (the MUP is new enough that there's not a lot of pedestrians on it yet), it's the various construction and lawncare contractors that like to drive and park their mowers/trucks/bobcats/whatever on the MUP while they go about their appointed duties.

I try not to get bitter about stuff but it's irritating to have to go off-roading twice a week when it's "mowing day." The stares and offhand grumbles we've gotten as we go past raise my blood pressure. :P

How dare us... wanting to actually make use of the trail they are being paid to maintain.

Most of the MUP's in my experience have people walking side by side. Somehow we are all supposed to wait behind them and pass on the opposite side (joggers included), or veer off into the grass and pass on the right. I don't know why they seem oblivious to the fact that they are taking up the whole path :rolleyes:.

The MUP where I ride has a line dividing it. One side is for wheels, and one side is for feet. The wheel people are all supposed to go one direction, while the feet people are allowed to go either direction. The biggest problem I have is that the feet people seem to think that the whole path is theirs.

I laughed Sat, a couple was walking up the MUP, and helpfully pointing us cyclists to the right, while walking side by side and taking up most of the MUP.

I only spoke once to a dog walker who's off-leash dog jumped out in front of me, and even then only said "He's gonna get hit".

Walkers probably don't like us because we are 'faster' than them and silent, and constitute some danger. Now, most of us are probably fine, but there are those that form a petelon and turn the MUP into their personal Alps trial. I hate them too. .

My office backs onto a riverfront MUT that runs 10 or 12 miles. I used to jog it at lunch, but now I'm more inclined to ride. Even so, when I'm king, bikes are going to be banned, except for kids. I'm just tired of jerkoff cyclists blowing past children and old ladies in walkers at 25mph, and tired of them seeing how close they can come to people who are obviously casual cyclists, just out to see the river. There are three or four bike/pedestrian crashes a year out there, and they're invariably caused by some jackass cyclist going three times as fast as traffic.

Reminds me of "Petition to Remove Bicycles from Hilton Head Island's Bicycle Pathways".

The big problem is peds walking on the wrong side of the pathway, as all pathway traffic should keep to the right, and keeping single file. Both are local ordinance regarding pathway traffic on HHI.

My office backs onto a riverfront MUP that runs 10 or 12 miles. I used to jog it at lunch, but now I'm more inclined to ride. Even so, when I'm king, bikes are going to be banned, except for kids. I'm just tired of jerkoff cyclists blowing past children and old ladies in walkers at 25mph, and tired of them seeing how close they can come to people who are obviously casual cyclists, just out to see the river. There are three or four bike/pedestrian crashes a year out there, and they're invariably caused by some jackass cyclist going three times as fast as traffic.


One of those TrialthGeeks actually killed a lady on our MUP here some years ago, so I can see your point, but it seems a bit extreme to ban bikes because of a few jerks. These guys (they always seem to be male) never call out or use a bell (added weight y'know) on the trail.
Annoying as it can be, I always slow down when approaching peds & dogs so that everyone will survive the collision if it happens.
No doubt that many folks seem wholly oblivious to the hazards of MUP walking, but I really don't want to hit any of 'em.

My office backs onto a riverfront MUT that runs 10 or 12 miles. I used to jog it at lunch, but now I'm more inclined to ride. Even so, when I'm king, bikes are going to be banned, except for kids. I'm just tired of jerkoff cyclists blowing past children and old ladies in walkers at 25mph, and tired of them seeing how close they can come to people who are obviously casual cyclists, just out to see the river. There are three or four bike/pedestrian crashes a year out there, and they're invariably caused by some jackass cyclist going three times as fast as traffic.

Haha, yeah - a couple collisions per year, better ban cyclists from the bike path!

Last year, I almost got clotheslined by some lady walking her dog. On the right side (of direction I am going) there is a retaining wall and it creates a bad blind corner as it is at the bottom of a small decline from the at grade crossing. She decided to hold the wall up while on the phone while her pooch used the sign post on the other side of the path. I saw her, didn't see Fido or the leash (black and extending kind, I hate those; how are they legal????) until she tried to yank the dog to her side of the path which didn't work. Luckily, the leash went under me.

Since that event, I try to avoid that MUP as much as I can when not commuting.

The problem is that ped traffic and bike traffic don't mix any better than bikes and cars do. The local MUP's here are divided with bikes and one side and peds on the other. The problem is that they are all two trails, and neither side is wide enough to pass someone on. So everyone ignores the marked sides because it is impossible to follow them. MUP's are great for kids on bikes, leisurely riders, walkers and joggers, and that is about it. Please don't get me started on the idiot that invented the retractable dog leash. Dogs should be permantly banned from all MUP's!

I have a dog, and I would never take him on a MUP. I also noticed dog crap in the middle of the pavement I had to dodge, very annoying. Plus the dog owner mentality is really disgusting. I need to find a more bike oriented place to ride with my family out here.

Dog owners seem to be the worst here. They like to unleash Rover and let him run free. Usually after I tell them to leash their dogs they get Rover under control.

The trail rules are clearly posted at both trailheads and in the parking lot at the midway point. Basically you just have to keep to the right, pass on the left and keep your dog on a short leash. You don't have to belong to MENSA to understand the rules.

Bikes don't have as much right to the trail as walkers do. Everyone shows some common courtesy and obeys the rules and it works out well.

Of course that doesn't always happen.

I walk regularly, and know many members of the New Albany Walking Club, host of the biggest walkers-only event in the country. A majority of them are nothing but super friendly on the trails. I came across 2 of them on a long ride this weekend as they prepare to walk a marathon, and they always said thank you when notified they were about to be passed. I find many bikers are less friendly of slower bikers than walkers or runners are of bikers.

If I need to get some where, like to work, then I avoid the MUP like the plague. Its just not worth the hassle. I did use them for a while but now I just stick to the roads.

If I were to go on a slow ride with the family, then I would use the MUP.

MUP I ride is can be good, can be bad...

Good: This morning on the way in to work in downtown DC I rang my bell to signal my approach from behind to two or three joggers, all of whom waved in acknowledgement and thanks and moved to the right as far as they could, even though there was no one coming from the other direction. They were just being courteous and communicating their intentions as I do with the ring of the bell or "On your left."

Bad: Joggers w/ earbuds cranked up so loud they can't hear anything. I could slow down and ring my bell behind them for 5 minutes, all the time screaming at the top of my lungs "ON YOUR LEFT!!!"and they probably wouldn't hear me or react. Not safe. Occasional dog owners are bad, too, though most of the part of the MUP I ride does not directly abut residential areas.

Worst: Weekends. BUT I either expect to have issues or I take other routes. I mean, people don't get in their cars near major cities and 8 AM and expect to be able to fly down the interstate at 70 MPH w/o slowing down, right? So, we cyclists should expect that on weekends when MUPs see the most use, that we'll have some high traffic situations to deal with and know we might not be able to ride the MUP as fast as we would on a Wednesday morning at 8:30.

For fellow NoVA commuters: One improvement I would suggest for the Mount Vernon Trail is at the end of the runway at Gravelly Point. Too often, even at random times of the day on weekdays, groups congregate right in the middle of the trail to watch the planes coming in or taking off. They often do so with little children, too, and fail to adequately corral/supervise them. The asphalt there should be widened and/or signage should be added asking those there to watch the planes to kindly step off the path so that cyclists and joggers can pass unimpeded.

Dog owners seem to be the worst here. They like to unleash Rover and let him run free. Usually after I tell them to leash their dogs they get Rover under control.

The trail rules are clearly posted at both trailheads and in the parking lot at the midway point. Basically you just have to keep to the right, pass on the left and keep your dog on a short leash. You don't have to belong to MENSA to understand the rules.

Bikes don't have as much right to the trail as walkers do. Everyone shows some common courtesy and obeys the rules and it works out well.

Of course that doesn't always happen.

This is part of the problem, everyone knows that on streets, whether it's the law or not, all rights belong to the motorist and cyclists are about 4th rate, behind motorcycles and powered scooters, but slightly ahead of electric bicycles, for now. On trails and MUPs pedestrians have all the rights, and cyclists rate 3rd place behind walkers.joggers and wheel chairs. There is no place where cyclists have all the rights, not even bike lanes where drivers seem to have the right to park.

I don't get why runners/walkers will shun the sidewalks and use the bike lanes frequently in many neighborhoods I've lived. I dont get why given the choice on a MUP between hard, flat dirt or what is basically a sidewalk, they will choose the harder surface. In Tucson there is a river path. The north side is a MUP, and the south is walkers/runners only. Almost nobody uses the south side. The north side also has dirt foot paths parallel to the MUP. The pedestrians use the middle of the MUP.

Also, saying "On your left" is often interpeted as "move in a random direction".

It all depends on how you act.

I don't get why runners/walkers will shun the sidewalks and use the bike lanes frequently in many neighborhoods I've lived. I dont get why given the choice on a MUP between hard, flat dirt or what is basically a sidewalk, they will choose the harder surface. In Tucson there is a river path. The north side is a MUP, and the south is walkers/runners only. Almost nobody uses the south side. The north side also has dirt foot paths parallel to the MUP. The pedestrians use the middle of the MUP.

Also, saying "On your left" is often interpeted as "move in a random direction".

I don't really care if a jogger uses a bike lane, as long as they are willing to shift out of the lane and let me pass, unimpeded. The problem is that most of them, jog in the direction of traffic and with their music players on, with the volume set at 11, they don't hear you, so you need to go around them. Of course you look in your mirror and every car in the city, decides at that point, they must pass that particular location, so you lose any momentum you have.

As for the MUP, I once say a path that split into two parallel paths, with a sign that looked like this:

<- Pedestrians Only
Bicycles Only ->

You would think that a walker/jogger/runner in that case would take the Pedestrian path, well about half did, the other half would take the bicycle path, and then give any cyclist who dared to pass them dirty looks.

Here is what the designers were trying to accomplish, you had about a 20% grade, the pedestrian side had a railing, and some stairs cut in, which would make it easy to deal with the hill when walking, this path was about 1.5m wide, so two people could pass comfortably.

The bicycle path had no railing, was slightly wider so a descending and ascending bike could pass each other, maybe 2m wide. A cyclist going down could get a nice speed going, before slowing down at the bottom if the path was clear, which it usually wasn't because some walker would be gingerly and slowly walking down the path, right in the middle.

I do a lot of riding on the Santa Ana River Trail in southern CA. The peds that seem to get angriest at bicyclists are the ones who are wearing earbuds and couldn't hear a 747 behind them, then get all freaked out when you pass them.

The others that seem to think they own the trail are those who stand in the middle of the trail chatting. Meat pylons is a misnomer.. I call em targets.

This is why i usually never ride on any kind of mup..

#1- It is hard to maintain any kind of decent speed for any period of time......
#2- You have to deal with a buch of idiots than think they own the trail with there strollers, and dogs...


Just stay away from the mups and you do not have to worry about any of this kinda nonsense........................

The ones that get me are the meat pylons, this is usually either a older male or small child, who like to stand in the middle of the path, and nobody should dare to pass them, it's like they have staked a claim on that portion of the path. Of course it's usually at a point where going off the path to go around them isn't easy, like a gateway or where there are stands of trees on both sides or the middle of a bridge. Man do you get a dirty look if you pass them, even very slowly. People can be weird sometimes.


O_O! Meat pylons -- I like that!

Every so often there is a group of moms with baby strollers that meet on the Beltline. There's about 5 or 6 of them and they like to walk side-by-side, pretty much taking the entire width of the trail. Lord help you if you want to ride by --- not a nice occasion. The language! I've never been cussed so badly. All I wanted to do *sob* was ride past.

Sheesh.

Here is the bridge I go over on my way too and from work. The middle section is designated for bike traffic, and the outer area is supposed to be for pedestrians (outside the arches on the step up sidewalk). Lets just say I've encountered ped's walking anywhere but the outer area.

Last night on my way to work the bridge was totally unlit. If not for my lights on my bike I would have ran over two (albeit lovely) females. I also passed two bike ninjas out on their cruisers who were frozen on both sides of the yellow dividing line :twitchy:.

O_O! Meat pylons -- I like that!

Every so often there is a group of moms with baby strollers that meet on the Beltline. There's about 5 or 6 of them and they like to walk side-by-side, pretty much taking the entire width of the trail. Lord help you if you want to ride by --- not a nice occasion. The language! I've never been cussed so badly. All I wanted to do *sob* was ride past.

Sheesh.

Yeah, don't you feel like yelling, "I PAY TAXES TOO, YOU KNOW" The problem for those who have not been on the Beltline is that except where it runs through a cemetery, there are fences on both sides, even though it can be 5m wide in places, 5 of those SUV sized strollers can easily take up the whole width.

Common decency would lead to a couple of these people dropping behind while you pass, then moving back into position. Nice and easy, no fuss, no muss. Except selfish people find it it's far better to use up 10x the energy to cuss you out, then it is to be decent. Sadly those kids in 20 years will be spending most of their time with shrinks because they are so screwed up.

You think walkers are bad you should try riding the golf cart paths in Peachtree City, GA. All ages are driving carts on the path and they do a lot of the passing. The kids are the ones that scare me. Not that they mind you being there but that they're not always paying attention. I saw some texting and talking on cell phones. Others were just talking to their passengers. This was the first time I've riden the trail. I went with my boss's and they have rode the path before. I don't know if I'll do that again. Too much traffic for me with the walkers, runners and golf carts.

Yep, they are just raising another generation of clueless disrespectful people. :(

This thread is just making me wanna go on my local mup, and start raising hell down the path...

Oh no! :D

I have had more than a few philosphical discussions with groups who consume the entire path when engaging in their activities, making it impossible to pass. I usually point out to them, in a not so tactful manner, that 'on your left' is a courtesy to let someone know you are passing. It is not a warning to get out of the way. When they need to get out of the way, the phrase is considerably less cordial.

My other favorite people on the MUP are the dog walkers. They are on one side of the trail and the dog is on the other and the leash is across the trail. I have a 1.5mile MUP as part of my daily ride. A lot of people seem to think it is a good idea to wear dark clothes in the dark. (I see people do this on sidewalks also.) There have been people I've only seen because my headlight reflected on the dog's eyes.

I used to ride the Santa Ana river trail, the back bay trail and some of the beach paths. The worst people in those areas are the rollerbladers. I've only seen a few rollerbladers since I've moved to AZ and that is still too many.

Normally SART is excellent for training on. There isn't that much ped traffic on the trail so you can maintain a 20mph pace with very little problem. San Gabriel River has even less foot traffic but LA County sucks as far as maintenance goes, it's got a lot of nasty bumps when transitioning from asphalt to concrete.

This is part of the problem, everyone knows that on streets, whether it's the law or not, all rights belong to the motorist and cyclists are about 4th rate, behind motorcycles and powered scooters, but slightly ahead of electric bicycles, for now. On trails and MUPs pedestrians have all the rights, and cyclists rate 3rd place behind walkers.joggers and wheel chairs. There is no place where cyclists have all the rights, not even bike lanes where drivers seem to have the right to park.

The strange thing is the majority of paths around town were created being
called "bike paths", the term "Multi-use path" didn't even pop up until about
10-15 years ago when the "meat pylons" decided to cluster things up by wanting
to walk on BIKE PATHS instead of ANYWHERE ELSE-
I used to be able to shout "BIKE PATH!BIKE PATH!BIKE PATH!" when confronted
by angry pedestrians, but now they can shout "MULTI-USE!MULTI-USE!MULTI-USE!"
I now just wipe my rims down w/ automotive wheel & tire cleaner before riding the "MUP", so when I need to apply the brakes they squeal like hell,
the path parts like Moses parting the Red Sea!