Commuting - legal to take an entire lane?

i'm sure it's been talked about to death - but is it legal to take an entire lane? everyone once in a while when i don't feel safe being off to the side, i move to the middle of the lane and don't let cars pass me.

Yes.

http://www.dot.state.ny.us/pubtrans/share.html

Most specifically,

Is a motorist required to treat bicyclists any differently than a motorist?


The motorist must always remember that cyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of motor vehicles, and motorists are required to exercise "due care" to avoid colliding with bicyclists (Sec. 1146). As a safety measure, motorists should make scanning for bicyclists second nature, give cyclists plenty of clearance when passing them, and give them the right-of-way when appropriate.

But even more specifically (from the same page):

Be aware that when a road is too narrow for cars and bikes to ride safely side by side, bicyclists should ride in or near the center of the lane to discourage motorists from trying to pass.

The motorist must always remember that cyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of motor vehicles, and motorists are required to exercise "due care" to avoid colliding with bicyclists (Sec. 1146).

Drivers should be required to sign a statement stating they understand this law prior to getting their license.

North Carolina has a law that says bicycles are required to obey all laws that apply to vehicles.

While you entitled to the whole lane you would probaly be safest not forcing the issue unless something forced you to such as a narrow shoulder etc.

Dave

Most laws state that you must ride as far to the right as is safe or practicle. This means that if you feel the conditions are too unsafe to be riding all the way over to the right then you have the option to be as far over to the right as you would feel safe which could actually be as far as the middle or even left side of said lane.

Drivers should be required to sign a statement stating they understand this law prior to getting their license.

North Carolina has a law that says bicycles are required to obey all laws that apply to vehicles.

While you entitled to the whole lane you would probaly be safest not forcing the issue unless something forced you to such as a narrow shoulder etc.

Dave

thanks prabbit for looking this up for me.

cwodave - i only ride like this unless it's absolutely necessary. we have a few streets here that are very narrow to begin with (cars parked on either side) and sometimes i just don't feel safe with someone squeezing by me. i'm sure it makes them mad, but lately i just can't come to let myself take on a significant risk just so that they can save a couple of minutes.

Drivers should be required to sign a statement stating they understand this law prior to getting their license. They are. It's the license itself. The signature on the license is a de facto statement of understanding of ALL traffic laws that apply to the use of that license, and a de facto agreement to abide by those laws. Of course, it's seldom true. Still, that's why, when a driver says "I didn't know <insert law here>..." regarding an incident, it doesn't help her/his case, it's actually further evidence of her/his being unfit to drive. In fact, if I were ever involved in a such a case that eventually went to court, and the "other guy" made any such statement to me, witnesses or the police, I'd introduce it as evidence against her. Only then, when drivers' ignorance of the laws they swear by signature to obey is used against them, will they take that signature seriously.

I take the lane as required to ensure my safety, particularly at multi lane intersections where being passed could force you into a turning lane, or off the road if the road narrows after the intersection. I have commuted and cycled in 5 states, have been passed by law enforcement numerous times and have not been cited for doing so.

'bent Brian

'bent Brian.

... but lately i just can't come to let myself take on a significant risk just so that they can save a couple of minutes.

Amen! I actually got in an argument about this a couple of days ago, which ended when the woman was unable to answer my question: "Why should I value your convenience over my life?"

-chris

Most laws state that you must ride as far to the right as is safe or practicle. This means that if you feel the conditions are too unsafe to be riding all the way over to the right then you have the option to be as far over to the right as you would feel safe which could actually be as far as the middle or even left side of said lane.

Of course, you never know if a cop and a judge will buy your interpretation of "practicable." That said, I stay as far to the left as needed to stay safe, even if that means taking the lane. I'd rather face a judge in municipal court than a doctor in the emergency room.

I've ridden down the middle of the LEFT lane of a major street many, many times. The right lane is so bumpy that it's unridable. I've never had a cop bug me about it.

i do what i want. i normaly take the lane because i don't like the way people squeeze between me an oncoming traffic. some idiot in a mini van is always passing me INTO on coming traffic.. big ass trucks even!

I'd rather face a judge in municipal court than a doctor in the emergency room.


Amen! This also applies to Pepper Spraying dogs. If i feel threatened, I spray. I'm not going to go get stitches before I spray! :mad:

They are. It's the license itself. The signature on the license is a de facto statement of understanding of ALL traffic laws that apply to the use of that license, and a de facto agreement to abide by those laws.

It is, but how often is someone actually re-tested on their licence? I could get a licence tomorrow and not drive again for 50 years. However, if I continue to pay the few dollars annually to cover the cost of encasing my photo in plastic, the only thing the authorities would know is that I've never had an accident. Heck, I'd probably also get cheaper insurance for being a "perfect driver".

In answer to the original question, I've never had legal issues claiming the entire lane when I've felt it necessary, and I've done it in plain view of police officers on numerous occasions. The law here only says ride as far left as practicable (same as the right for those in the US), and I have a whole heap of arguments prepared as to why certain situations require me to claim the lane. Of course, I've never actually needed to use any of them.

i'm sure it's been talked about to death - but is it legal to take an entire lane? everyone once in a while when i don't feel safe being off to the side, i move to the middle of the lane and don't let cars pass me.

I think that's getting a bit much. How'd you like it if a pedestrian refused to let you passed on a bike lane?
Driving a bike in heavy traffic is definitely risky. You've got to accept that risk to go out there. That's just my feeling. I mean, every motorbike rider knows that at some point he is going to come off and get badly hurt. Wear something stupidly luminous and put on your lights, even in the daytime, if your in a dodgy sitch. Or get onto the pavement.

I think that's getting a bit much. How'd you like it if a pedestrian refused to let you passed on a bike lane?

They do. Frequently. I just move outside the bikelane and pass them.



Driving a bike in heavy traffic is definitely risky. You've got to accept that risk to go out there.

Life is risky. Every human activity carries risk. I just prefer to take steps to minimise that risk. If that means claiming the lane, so be it.



That's just my feeling. I mean, every motorbike rider knows that at some point he is going to come off and get badly hurt.

Do they? Somehow I have my doubts on that one. If they knew that much, I doubt too many of them would do it.


if your in a dodgy sitch. Or get onto the pavement.

Why? That just increases your risk of misadventure through people pulling out of driveways, cutting corners etc etc. Far better to just claim the lane.

Riding on the foot path in Australia is illegal unless you are under 12 years of age.
I usually take the lane at intersections and lights I find it tends to get more respect/space from motorists, when you take off you can usually keep pace with traffic to 30 kph then ease over to the left.

I think that's getting a bit much. How'd you like it if a pedestrian refused to let you passed on a bike lane?
Driving a bike in heavy traffic is definitely risky. You've got to accept that risk to go out there. That's just my feeling. I mean, every motorbike rider knows that at some point he is going to come off and get badly hurt. Wear something stupidly luminous and put on your lights, even in the daytime, if your in a dodgy sitch. Or get onto the pavement.
You give them an inch and they'll take a yard. And when they take the lane over you get crushed or thrown in a ditch. Also I find most times in urban settings I am riding at or near the speed limit anyway so your not making cars slow down too too much. btw on 'bike paths' I usually go very very slow to pass walkers because they have rights to use also. (Note: I'm not trying to make this very good thread turn into a 'bike path' discussion ;) )

Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you need to do it. Yes you will have the occasional a-hole that buzzes inches away from you at 60 mph. So what. Are you going to let him fluster you and cause the 98% of motorists that are courteous to get pissed off at you for riding like an idiot and taking the whole lane when you don't need the whole lane. You pissing off motorists could get ME killed.

there is no 100% perfect answer to this - if you creep along the side of the road you get people whizzing past you at high speed and risk getting doored into the bargain. If you ride in the middle you piss people off and they overtake recklessly to teach you a lesson. Motorists on the whole do not understand the dangers of cycling unless they are cyclists too.

The thing that really pisses me off is when one guy does something stupid (like overtaking you where there is not enough space) then everyone behind feels that they have to copy him and do the same thing.

One trick I have learnt is that when I sense cars coming up behind some distance behind is that I deliberately wobble the bike. This usually causes them to give you some more space.

I've only experienced this once but assuming you're asking about NYC traffic, I pointed straight downwards several times as I took a lane to indicate some type of pothole, the car behind me slowed down enough that I cleared the double parked cars and no one honked or anything.
It is legal and sometimes recommended to take the lane if say you're passing a double parked car and you know there's barely enough room for you and the car behind you at once, which is pretty common on NYC streets. In manhattan, traffic's moving so slow anyway I don't usually hold anybody back when I take the lane, in fact, I ride in the middle of the lane with all the taxi's and cars and they very rarely honk at me. Some drivers even feel better if I'm inline with them rather than zipping around between cars and pedestrians like some mesengers.

We had a situation yesterday where we should have taken the lane and it nearly got us hurt. We were riding trough Downtown St. Pete where the speed limit is 15 mph. We were riding at 18 mph when this Jeep Grand Cherokee with tinted windows pulls up alongside me and starts keeping pace, this continues for about a block until the driver accelerates past me and my girlfriend, stops short maybe two bike lengths ahead of us, and puts on thier right turn signal so they could pull into a parking space. Needless to say we had to jam on the brakes to avoid being part of this F*^$wits rear bumper. I yelled at the driver (the usual WTF are you doing?) who proceded to say something to the effect of "We were only being nice". Only being nice. :rolleyes: I'm still pissed of course, other people's stupidity putting me and mine in a position to get hurt usually has that effect. Yes we should have taken the lane but that doesn't excuse the driver in the slightest
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7904/slug.gif



On the bright side my girlfriend got to practice EMERGENCY unclipping. Which is something I've tried to simulate with her on past rides.

They are. It's the license itself. The signature on the license is a de facto statement of understanding of ALL traffic laws that apply to the use of that license, and a de facto agreement to abide by those laws. Of course, it's seldom true. Still, that's why, when a driver says "I didn't know <insert law here>..." regarding an incident, it doesn't help her/his case, it's actually further evidence of her/his being unfit to drive. In fact, if I were ever involved in a such a case that eventually went to court, and the "other guy" made any such statement to me, witnesses or the police, I'd introduce it as evidence against her. Only then, when drivers' ignorance of the laws they swear by signature to obey is used against them, will they take that signature seriously.


The problem with that thinking is when they get to the "reasonable person" part of the argument. Most "reasonable persons" in the U.S. have no idea what is actually required of them on the roads.

I've known at least ten serious bikers in my life and every one of them has accepted that falling off and getting hurt is part of the deal when you ride a motorbike. Don't ride a motor bike if you're not prepared for getting hurt. It's the same with bicycling, but with usually far less pain/ time off work. Hogging the road will only increase the already worrying animosity felt by car drivers towards cyclists.

I've known at least ten serious bikers in my life and every one of them has accepted that falling off and getting hurt is part of the deal when you ride a motorbike. Don't ride a motor bike if you're not prepared for getting hurt. It's the same with bicycling, but with usually far less pain/ time off work. Hogging the road will only increase the already worrying animosity felt by car drivers towards cyclists.

Dude, changing colours and font size isn't going to change the issue.

1. Your sample of 10 motorcyclists is not exactly a cross section of such a large group. Come back when you've got 10,000.

2. I really don't care how much car drivers hate me. I've mentioned in the past I have no desire for their "respect". All I really want from them is compliance, and if claiming the lane achieves that, I'm all for it.

Dude, changing colours and font size isn't going to change the issue.

1. Your sample of 10 motorcyclists is not exactly a cross section of such a large group. Come back when you've got 10,000.

2. I really don't care how much car drivers hate me. I've mentioned in the past I have no desire for their "respect". All I really want from them is compliance, and if claiming the lane achieves that, I'm all for it.

I think Leconkie's point is that claiming the lane will NOT get you the compliance that you want. It will get you animosity and when the holder of that animosity is controlling two tons of steel a couple of feet behind you the outcome can be bad. Some drivers obviously feel that cyclists are a just a nuisance and that we should not even be on the road at all. Then to compound matters when we cycle in a LANE instead of in the gutter and make them SLOW down for a few seconds-- well that can increase some peoples rage to the point where they will feel justified in giving you a scare and maybe killing you into the bargain.

Legally we may have the right to take the lane if we need it but unfortunately life is not so simple as that. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each situation and decide.

Are you going to let him fluster you and cause the 98% of motorists that are courteous to get pissed off at you for riding like an idiot and taking the whole lane when you don't need the whole lane.

Who said anything about taking the whole lane when you don't need to?

I think Leconkie's point is that claiming the lane will NOT get you the compliance that you want.

I beg to differ. The number of times lane claiming as been solely responsible for saving my life is more than I've been prepared to keep count of, and certainly often enough to disprove all the "you're gonna die" merchants (most of whom have never actually tried it for themselves). It gets me the compliance I want pretty much all of the time -- and on the rare occasion that it doesn't, it still leaves me some space in which I can back off should the need arise. If I ride in the gutter I have no space in which to back off.


well that can increase some peoples rage to the point where they will feel justified in giving you a scare and maybe killing you into the bargain.

Actually, that's not true at all. The whole cyclists hold up traffic argument is a complete crock. If you don't believe me, come and ride across the Sundale Bridge with me tomorrow evening and you'll see just who's holding up who. Claiming the lane won't increase their rage to that point because the rage is already there. It's a given factor that we have to cope with as best we can. Again, the best way to cope with it is to give yourself enough space to deal with the situation. Again, the best place to do this is from the centre of the lane.


Legally we may have the right to take the lane if we need it but unfortunately life is not so simple as that. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each situation and decide.

I do, but I'm yet to hear any cons of claiming the lane that either stand up in the real world, or outweigh the pros.

Actually, that's not true at all. The whole cyclists hold up traffic argument is a complete crock. If you don't believe me, come and ride across the Sundale Bridge with me tomorrow evening and you'll see just who's holding up who. Claiming the lane won't increase their rage to that point because the rage is already there. It's a given factor that we have to cope with as best we can. Again, the best way to cope with it is to give yourself enough space to deal with the situation. Again, the best place to do this is from the centre of the lane.

I would like to come to the Sundale bridge but as I am on the other side of the world I haven't got much chance. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I just wanted to inject a note of a caution into the lane claiming thing that was all.

By holding up traffic That is just the perception of drivers. They behave as if they own the road and there doesnt seem to be a lot we can do about it. We dont have much chance of educating people from a bike saddle. They just don't seem to notice at all when they sit there alone in an SUV blocking the entire road off and making you wait. However when you hold them up it is suddenly an outrageous insult that must be avenged. That's life I suppose :(

By holding up traffic That is just the perception of drivers. They behave as if they own the road and there doesnt seem to be a lot we can do about it. We dont have much chance of educating people from a bike saddle. They just don't seem to notice at all when they sit there alone in an SUV blocking the entire road off and making you wait. However when you hold them up it is suddenly an outrageous insult that must be avenged. That's life I suppose

That's true, but I think we need to be honest about what sort of reaction it's likely to cause in drivers, and even whether lane claiming would even be a factor in causing it. You see, while most people fear being attacked by drivers when they ride, I've been on the receiving end of actual attacks on more than one occasion (the most recent three weeks ago). The one common denominator in all these situations is that none of them occurred while I was lane-claiming. Of course, that could be because I only tend to do it when there's a bit of traffic around, which may frighten potential attackers (nothing like a few witnesses).

As I said before, I don't bother even trying to educate them, I just prepare myself for what they might do as best I can, and try to remember the location of the nearest police station.

I've been on the receiving end of actual attacks on more than one occasion (the most recent three weeks ago).

what sparked off the attacks?

My feeling is that if you signal your intentions properly, most drivers will understand you're only being safe, and trying to share the road with them. Of course, if you suddenly decide to merge onto the center of a lane, cutting cars passing and not signaling on top, you might end up with a bunch of angry drivers passing you recklessly.

And, it only works with *most* drivers, not all. I've noticed that mostly SUV and minivan drivers are I'd say much more reckless than the average drivers. I practice extra care when dealing with such vehicules, especially when it comes to soccer moms.

what sparked off the attacks?

On most of the occasions I was just riding along minding my own business. Wearing red might have been a factor in one (apparently an act of provoKKKation out here), but to be honest I have no idea -- and nor do I care. Sadly, the Gold Coast is becoming increasingly violent each year. About the only reason I'm still here is the quality of riding in the Hinterland. When the urban sprawl takes that away, I'm off.

Oh yeah, I catalogued some of the more recent ones here: (scroll down that page)

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=55671&page=1