Road Cycling - A few questions about the pros!

Hi Guys,

Having done a little bit of cycling of the last few years i've just started to realise how far away the planet these pros are on is, i have a few questions about them that have been nagging away at me for ages and now i found this forum i thought someone might be able to help, here they are:

1. Just how many of them do drugs? I would like to think Lance's story is one of sheer talent, dedication and commitment and not one of drugs but surely it's not possible to attain that level of fitness any other way?

2. What kind of resting heart rate do they have?

3. What's their training schedule like for something like Tour De France. How many hours per day and what things do they do. how much riding, gym work etc.?

4. When they decide to stop riding will they have to carefully "train down" to avoid shocking the body? If they do, what would they do if they end up in hospital with two snapped legs?

5. What's their diet like, what things do they eat, how many calories in a day do they need to sustain their body weight?

6. What kind of speeds do they cruise at on a.) flat surface with slight tail wind (10-15mph) b.) flat surface with slight head wind (10-15mph). c.) Going up a big long hill?

7. How many years do they have to train to reach that kind of level of fitness, does it involve starting very young?

I'm sure i'll think of some more! I'm just really fascinated by these guys so if any of you can help out then great.

1. Just how many of them do drugs? I would like to think Lance's story is one of sheer talent, dedication and commitment and not one of drugs but surely it's not possible to attain that level of fitness any other way?

No comment except that it is possible to reach that level without doing drugs.

2. What kind of resting heart rate do they have?

Indurain had a resting HR of 30. HRs in the 30s and 40s are not uncommon.

3. What's their training schedule like for something like Tour De France. How many hours per day and what things do they do. how much riding, gym work etc.?

Don't have the specifics. Bugno used to ride six hours a day.

4. When they decide to stop riding will they have to carefully "train down" to avoid shocking the body? If they do, what would they do if they end up in hospital with two snapped legs?

I doubt there's been a pro who completely put away their bikes after retiring. I don't think they have to train down.

#2 does not measure performance

# 3 around 40 hours a week

#5 around 5-6 thousand cals a day mostly carbs pasta, rice,bread, eggs ect

# 6 25 -35mph, hills dunno vary

#7 yes they start young, around 10 yrs of training for most to get to pro level
and there training is not public, in LA book or any other training books is just the basics and common sense.


Also elite bike riders can sustain around 400 watts.

I don't know if Armstrong does illegal performance enhancing drugs or not. But I did read an article yesterday on the AP wire service regards the new book that's out, wherein the author accuses Armstrong of doing illegal drugs.The article stated that for the last few years Armstrong the most drug tested athelete on this planet. During the competitive season he's tested weekly. According to the article, Armstrong has never tested positive for any prohibited drugs.

What does it mean they can sustain 400 watts, and how do i know what i can sustain? i take it this is good but i'm not very up on stats or bike parts and things i just ride. How would i measure things like my V02 max? Are there any other tests for general fitness i can do to work out where i am?

They don't all have to start young, although most of them do. Dag **** Lauritzen won the TdF mountain stage to Luz Ardiden, He was a Danish rider riding for 7 Eleven at the time. I believe he started cycling at a very late age.

the Big Man Ludo Dierckxsens left his job @ age 30 and turned pro. He won the Belgian National Champioships 5 years later. I think he used to be a truck driver.

But these are exceptions to the norm. Most dropped out of school at an early age.

This may be a stupid question, but I'm curious. Is it possible to obtain a low heartrate such as Lance's (30 or 40?)

Is this just due to enormous amounts of training, or is it sometimes genetic?

Byron

B1105- It is definitely possible to get your heart rate into the 40s, though low 40s to 30s, is very rare, and probably has a lot to do with genetics.

BTW: You are in princeton?? So am I. Where do you ride?

What does it mean they can sustain 400 watts, and how do i know what i can sustain? i take it this is good but i'm not very up on stats or bike parts and things i just ride. How would i measure things like my V02 max? Are there any other tests for general fitness i can do to work out where i am?



My coach tested me, you have to have a power meter like powertap or SRM for wattage. IMO training by power is the best way to track your progress. wattage tells you how much power you are applying to the rear wheel, the more power the faster you are. the thing that is most important is how long you can sustain your threshold power output, most anyone can get on a bike and produce say 350 watts but the untrained can only do it maybe 30 sec or few minutes, and the trained several hours.

Some fun facts about Big Mig who is perhaps the "ultimate aerobic machine," according to the Pennsylvania State University Center for Sports Medicine, which provided these statistics.

Resting heart rate around 30 bpm.

His heart could pump 50 litres of blood per minute for hours at a time.

In the mountain stages of the TDF, Indurain could have a pulse rate 190 beats per minute and drop it back to 60 on the descent within half a minute.

VO2 max of 88

He's the most impressive physical specimen that the pro peloton has seen in the last 20 years.

hehe..
yeah, i'm just as ignorant as j.foster on this but i think it's just fantastic that pros are such studs when it comes to conditioning and ability.

another fun thing to consider is just how wildly fit the ppl on this board are or in your own city. you can play pickup basketball your whole life and not have somebody just roll up who's like NCAA division 1 starting center or something like that. but if you ride regularly at all you don't have to be out there too long before you get passed by some random cat 1/2 person out training or something and it's just as drastic a difference.

i think that's one of the great things about cycling: even in a non-organized context it can take ppl with different gifts and body types and carry them to a high level of performance - and it just seems to go on forever. you don't often see a 50yr old at one of those pickup basketball games either, but i get passed by 50yr old roadies all the time! =)

I read once, long ago, that the difference between amateur and pro cycling is absolutely the biggest leap in sports.

I believe it.

I read once, long ago, that the difference between amateur and pro cycling is absolutely the biggest leap in sports.

I believe it.

I saw the definition of the racing categories listed this way once:
Cat 5: bike, house, car, job, wife, kids
Cat 4: bike, house, car, job, wife
Cat 3: bike, house, car, job
Cat 2: bike, house, car
Cat 1: bike, house
Pro : bike

Note: meant to be humorous! No flames from the happily married Cat 1's in the audience with the standard allotment of 2.7 kids.

What does it mean they can sustain 400 watts, and how do i know what i can sustain? i take it this is good but i'm not very up on stats or bike parts and things i just ride. How would i measure things like my V02 max? Are there any other tests for general fitness i can do to work out where i am?

www.analyticcycling.com has a calculator and graphical illustration of power output versus speed
in the real world, assuming reasonable tire friction and air resistance. Elite cyclists can output on
the order of 500-550 watts for hours at a time. Hour record holders exceed even this. By comparing what speed you can maintain on the average for say 10mi or 25mi you can estimate your constant
power output by checking the graph. Considering pro sprints approach 40mph, a look on the graph at this speed gives a remarkable power output albeit for a short time. Steve

The leap from amatuer to pro is huge but the leap from pro to UCI 100 is just as big. There are pros...and then there are PROs. Watch one of the spring classics in person and you will feel so ******** for thinking you can even hold their wheel.

I like Kevin's description
Cat 5: bike, house, car, job, wife, kids
Cat 4: bike, house, car, job, wife
Cat 3: bike, house, car, job
Cat 2: bike, house, car
Cat 1: bike, house
Pro : bike


I can add to that discipline. At that level, it is a job. A profession. You must deliver results expected. If it takes you 10 hours a week or 70 hours a week doesn't matter.
Pro sports are rough which is why careers are defined in a few short years rather than decades.

Whats amazing to me is Mark Hendershot of the SantaCruz Syndicate Team (and a loyal customer here in Grand Rapids) has a bike, house, car, job and wife, and just finished a 24hr race which broke a mileage world record (315mi?) and finished 2nd, 20min or so behind the World Champ... and he's 40-ish, and this is his first race for Santa Cruz! So it is possible to be good and have a life.

This may be a stupid question, but I'm curious. Is it possible to obtain a low heartrate such as Lance's (30 or 40?)

Is this just due to enormous amounts of training, or is it sometimes genetic?

Byron

It must have a lot to do with genetics. My resting HR is in the high 40's and I weigh 230 lbs. and am far from my best fitness level. When I'm totally out of shape (for me) it's still in the high 50's.

Lance doesn’t do drugs, he has way to much to loose. Nor do any of the other top competitors in the Grand Tours. Way way too much to loose. But all the other obscure riders… that’s another story.

Lance doesn’t do drugs, he has way to much to loose. Nor do any of the other top competitors in the Grand Tours. Way way too much to loose. But all the other obscure riders… that’s another story.

Wasn't Ullrich busted for contraband?

No his year out was for hitting someone while he was drunk driving, off season in Germany.

Lance doesn’t do drugs, he has way to much to loose. Nor do any of the other top competitors in the Grand Tours. Way way too much to loose. But all the other obscure riders… that’s another story.

Thevenet almost destroyed his liver with steroid use. Delgado's tour win was tainted with allegations of drug use. Gert Jan Theunisse has admitted to doping during his entire career.

These were all top Grand Tour riders. You're fooling yourself if you think that there is no drug use among the podium finishers in this or last years TDF.

Lance said that he's never tested positive for any banned substances. Read between the lines. It doesn't mean that he's never done any.

Lance doesn’t do drugs, he has way to much to loose. Nor do any of the other top competitors in the Grand Tours. Way way too much to loose. But all the other obscure riders… that’s another story.
didn't pantani use performance enhancing drugs?

maybe the difference between the contenders and the obscure riders is, what's the word, the 'advancedness' of their doping?

[QUOTE=KevinF]I saw the definition of the racing categories listed this way once:
Cat 5: bike, house, car, job, wife, kids
Cat 4: bike, house, car, job, wife
Cat 3: bike, house, car, job
Cat 2: bike, house, car
Cat 1: bike, house
Pro : bike

QUOTE]

Is this a definition or a normal progression of each racer?

Joe

Thevenet almost destroyed his liver with steroid use. Delgado's tour win was tainted with allegations of drug use. Gert Jan Theunisse has admitted to doping during his entire career.

These were all top Grand Tour riders. You're fooling yourself if you think that there is no drug use among the podium finishers in this or last years TDF.

Lance said that he's never tested positive for any banned substances. Read between the lines. It doesn't mean that he's never done any.
Yes yes, those people you cited were all from the 80's and earlier. It seems lance may have used drugs at a time, we probably will never know.

As for Ullrich, he was caught with extacy, hardly performance enhancing.
It seems that (hopefully) as technology has changed it curtailed drug use to some degree, however there are probably just more covert methods now.

Take for example Richard Virenque, he was kicking ass in late 90’s, now he sucks.

No his year out was for hitting someone while he was drunk driving, off season in Germany.
From www.cyclingnews.com July 24, 2002

The German Cycling Federation (BDR) has voted to suspend Jan Ullrich for a period of six competition months following his positive drug test for amphetamines in June.

Marty

Yes yes, those people you cited were all from the 80's and earlier. It seems lance may have used drugs at a time, we probably will never know.
.

One of them was from the early 90s.

Anyway, the pressure to do well at the TDF has gotten much stronger since then and along with it the need and desire for some riders to dope. At the same time, the ability to mask illegal substances has certainly gotten better.

Take for example Richard Virenque, he was kicking ass in late 90’s, now he sucks.

Really? :rolleyes:

Richard Virenque, 2003 Tour de France King of the Mountains points competition winner?

Richard Virenque, 2003 Tour de France Stage 7 winner?

Richard Virengue, 2003 French National Championship Road Race 2nd place?

That Richard Virenque sucks?

You must be talking about another Richard Virenque. :rolleyes:

I saw the definition of the racing categories listed this way once:
Cat 5: bike, house, car, job, wife, kids
Cat 4: bike, house, car, job, wife
Cat 3: bike, house, car, job
Cat 2: bike, house, car
Cat 1: bike, house
Pro : bike

Note: meant to be humorous! No flames from the happily married Cat 1's in the audience with the standard allotment of 2.7 kids.
Ha Ha Thats a good one. OK so I am:
Cat4: bike, part time job, girl friend

Looks like I have a chance :)

QUOTE Lance said that he's never tested positive for any banned substances. Read between the lines. It doesn't mean that he's never done any. UNQUOUTE

I thought the exact same thing when Marion Jones said on TV this morning that "i've never tested positive for any banned substances," doesn't mean she never did them.

Surely for any athlete, the rewards of knowing you can beat people who are almost certainly doping by sheer ability/fitness whatever are for greater than if you know deep down you cheated to get where you are.

Also, when someone (forgot who) said earlier in this thread they tend to start them young, how young?

Lastly, how much of riding is to do with technique? And what is it about technique that makes some people better, the way they corner? Do they sit in a way with less drag? More efficient power delivery to the pedals?

my old coach (and i've heard others say it) said (sort of tongue in cheek, of course) that the primary difference between cat 2 and 1, or the difference between top amateurs and pros is drugs.

Really? :rolleyes:

Richard Virenque, 2003 Tour de France King of the Mountains points competition winner?

Richard Virenque, 2003 Tour de France Stage 7 winner?

Richard Virengue, 2003 French National Championship Road Race 2nd place?

That Richard Virenque sucks?

You must be talking about another Richard Virenque. :rolleyes:

Yes, but look at his overall stats.
before last year he had not won the KOM since '99
he was 2nd in GC in '97 and 3rd in '96. 8th in '99 and 6th in 2000.
Compared to where he was (while on drugs) he isnt too hot anymore.
Virenque even admitted to taking performance enhancing drugs.

Yes, but look at his overall stats.
before last year he had not won the KOM since '99
he was 2nd in GC in '97 and 3rd in '96. 8th in '99 and 6th in 2000.
Compared to where he was (while on drugs) he isnt too hot anymore.
Virenque even admitted to taking performance enhancing drugs.

The fact that he's 35 might have something to do with it also.

The fact that he's 35 might have something to do with it also.

One of the older riders in the peloton.

Virenque left Festina in 1998. He is another rider who has never tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. He admitted in a court of law that he took drugs while he was at Festina.

Since he left Festina, he has won the KOM at the TDF twice, the classic Paris-Tours, 3 stages at the TDF, and a stage at the Giro, KOM at the Tour of the Mediteranean, a stage in the Dauphine, along with other victories.

I think that to suggest that we only look at his GC standings at the TDF for a measure of whether or not he "sucks" is a bit misdirected and TDF-centric(which most American fans are anyway). He has a palmares since 1998 that 99 out of 100 riders in the pro peloton would give their right arm for.

He only sucks to observers who think that the TDF is the only race in the world. :)

One of the older riders in the peloton.

Virenque left Festina in 1998. He is another rider who has never tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. He admitted in a court of law that he took drugs while he was at Festina.

Since he left Festina, he has won the KOM at the TDF twice, the classic Paris-Tours, 3 stages at the TDF, and a stage at the Giro, KOM at the Tour of the Mediteranean, a stage in the Dauphine, along with other victories.

I think that to suggest that we only look at his GC standings at the TDF for a measure of whether or not he "sucks" is a bit misdirected and TDF-centric(which most American fans are anyway). He has a palmares since 1998 that 99 out of 100 riders in the pro peloton would give their right arm for.

He only sucks to observers who think that the TDF is the only race in the world. :)

you were the one who first cited stats from the tour, i simply posted some of his other telling tour stats.I never alluded to the fact that the TDF is the only race in the world, dont even know why you brought that up.

you were the one who first cited stats from the tour, i simply posted some of his other telling tour stats.I never alluded to the fact that the TDF is the only race in the world, dont even know why you brought that up.

Look a little closer. I cited his accomplishments in 2003, since you said he "sucks" now.

Hi Guys,

Having done a little bit of cycling of the last few years i've just started to realise how far away the planet these pros are on is, i have a few questions about them that have been nagging away at me for ages and now i found this forum i thought someone might be able to help, here they are:

1. Just how many of them do drugs? I would like to think Lance's story is one of sheer talent, dedication and commitment and not one of drugs but surely it's not possible to attain that level of fitness any other way?

2. What kind of resting heart rate do they have?

3. What's their training schedule like for something like Tour De France. How many hours per day and what things do they do. how much riding, gym work etc.?

4. When they decide to stop riding will they have to carefully "train down" to avoid shocking the body? If they do, what would they do if they end up in hospital with two snapped legs?

5. What's their diet like, what things do they eat, how many calories in a day do they need to sustain their body weight?

6. What kind of speeds do they cruise at on a.) flat surface with slight tail wind (10-15mph) b.) flat surface with slight head wind (10-15mph). c.) Going up a big long hill?

7. How many years do they have to train to reach that kind of level of fitness, does it involve starting very young?

I'm sure i'll think of some more! I'm just really fascinated by these guys so if any of you can help out then great.


Is there anyone here that can answer all of these questions? I haven't read anything about riding speeds or years of training or diet. I know power output is probably a better measure of speed, but given a relatively flat stretch of road and little wind, how fast would they be going on average? Racerx, you seem like an experienced rider. Whats your story as far as racing goes??

I think that to suggest that we only look at his GC standings at the TDF for a measure of whether or not he "sucks" is a bit misdirected and TDF-centric(which most American fans are anyway). He has a palmares since 1998 that 99 out of 100 riders in the pro peloton would give their right arm for.


He was just saying that he sucks compared to his past years at Festina. The only international race that he had results in last year was the TDF (according to your post). It wasn't a comparison to other riders... that was obvious.



Lastly, how much of riding is to do with technique? And what is it about technique that makes some people better, the way they corner? Do they sit in a way with less drag? More efficient power delivery to the pedals?

To me, when watching a pro ride, they seem to have a different technique than from what I see in any other roadies. It's hard to explain, but they do simply look so smooth and efficient.

1. Drugs are not going to add %150 to a rider's performance. They can possibly make quite a difference though... especially in recovery.

2. 30bpm-55bpm range, I would assume. After the medical checks at the TDF, they usually announce the average resting heart rate, and lowest/highest resting heart rate.

3. Gym work is probably for early in the year... December-February range. In training for a GT, I would guess they ride 30-45 hours a week.

4. It probably wouldn't be healthy at all to totally give up the bike after years of that. You could gain 200 pounds like Merckx, or die of a heart attack

7. Many riders begin serious endurance training by the time they are 15 years old.

Is there anyone here that can answer all of these questions? I haven't read anything about riding speeds or years of training or diet. I know power output is probably a better measure of speed, but given a relatively flat stretch of road and little wind, how fast would they be going on average? Racerx, you seem like an experienced rider. Whats your story as far as racing goes??

It's not unusual during the last few miles of a sprinters stage to see a team like Fasa drag the peloton along at 29 mph. I recall hearing once of Jacky Durand soloing along with no tail wind at 27 mph for the last 30 miles of a break.

As for the final sprint, Petta finished a Giro stage in a 53x11 at 110 rpm. That's 42 mph.

Actually the speed in the last few kilometeres of a flat stage is usually well over 30mph.


Even in the Pro races in the U.S.

At the twilight crit in Athens GA in 2001, the last 1 kilometer lap was done in 1:02, which is around 36mph, and the race averaged 32mph.

He only sucks to observers who think that the TDF is the only race in the world.


They have other races????? :eek:

They have other races????? :eek:

Hey, don't laugh. There are a lot of racing "fans" who could not name a race other than the TDF. If pushed they may be able to come up with the Giro and possibly Paris-Roubaix.

I'm going to get flamed for this no matter what - even if I clearly state that I AM NOT COMPARING SPORTS HERE. However, I can claim that the gulf between amateur and pro in the golf world is unbelieveably huge. And to use RacerX's comment, the gulf between pro and PRO is almost as big. I play scratch golf (that's a 0 handicap) to maybe +3 and couldn't EVER shake a nine iron at even a junior tour (i.e. Hooters) player letalone a regular tour player. Sure practice makes a big difference and that's all the pros do ... no different than the pro cyclist in that respect, but the difference is quite amazing. I've played with a few pros in a few charity events and never fail to be blown away.

Just sayin' ... :D

Actually the speed in the last few kilometeres of a flat stage is usually well over 30mph.


Even in the Pro races in the U.S.

At the twilight crit in Athens GA in 2001, the last 1 kilometer lap was done in 1:02, which is around 36mph, and the race averaged 32mph.

Agreed. Though it's apples and oranges don't ya think? One's a 140 mile stage and one's what? 60 laps of a 1 km course?

You're right in that Fassa was probably pulling at 30-31 mph.

At my very strongest I couldn't sprint at 36mph.


'm going to get flamed for this no matter what - even if I clearly state that I AM NOT COMPARING SPORTS HERE. However, I can claim that the gulf between amateur and pro in the golf world is unbelieveably huge

Exactly. I'll pay someone if they can find that story that someone once posted on here about the difference between pros and non-pros. It basically compared us weekend warriors with a pro rider.

A good read on the whole atmosphere around doping in the pro peloton is "Rough Ride" by Paul Kimmage. He was a rider back in the late 80s on RVO and Fagor. He talks about just how hard it is to hang with the pack, especially in the Tour, and why many riders, including himself, resort to drugs simply to survive the sport. The drugs used now are vastly different than the ones Kimmage discusses, but the principle remains the same.

Thanks for the correction Marty.