TechKnowGN
07-07-09, 11:30 AM
liquigas stealth podium. Watch and learn fanboys.
lol.
lol.
Professional Cycling For the Fans - TdF Stage 4 - Tuesday July 7 - 38km TTT - Montpelier
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07-07-09, 11:33 AM
Did Kloden drop out of the race? :innocent:
As for the theory that Astana weren't hoping to put Lance into yellow - :roflmao2: I bet that's eating him now. He would have loved to ride in the MJ for a few more days. It might be better for the team in the long run that it didn't happen though.
Gesink, Astarloza, Arroyo, Sanchez, Garate, Zubeldia, Kreuziger, Nibali and Pelizotti are all very good climbers. Pereiro, Karpets, Bruseghin, Gerdemann and Ignatiev aren't weaklings either.
Kloden has a legit shot as well, he has been the forgotten man. There are others, I was just giving an example. I really don't buy the theory that they weren't hoping for yellow, that's not right. Maybe they don't care about sponsors right now, but Lance sure as hell cares about Livestrong and I imagine it would have been front and center. Yes, great climbers in that list. I was just listing a sample of GC guys that would stick with ACs group. Heck, those guys could win the stage...big Nibali fan here.
As for the theory that Astana weren't hoping to put Lance into yellow - :roflmao2: I bet that's eating him now. He would have loved to ride in the MJ for a few more days. It might be better for the team in the long run that it didn't happen though.
Gesink, Astarloza, Arroyo, Sanchez, Garate, Zubeldia, Kreuziger, Nibali and Pelizotti are all very good climbers. Pereiro, Karpets, Bruseghin, Gerdemann and Ignatiev aren't weaklings either.
Kloden has a legit shot as well, he has been the forgotten man. There are others, I was just giving an example. I really don't buy the theory that they weren't hoping for yellow, that's not right. Maybe they don't care about sponsors right now, but Lance sure as hell cares about Livestrong and I imagine it would have been front and center. Yes, great climbers in that list. I was just listing a sample of GC guys that would stick with ACs group. Heck, those guys could win the stage...big Nibali fan here.
UnsafeAlpine
07-07-09, 11:33 AM
Personally, Im really happy FC kept the yellow jersey.
The ride of the day however, has to go to Lance.
As people seem to think, it was an utterly planned strategy NOT to get yellow today.
He also went into retirement for 4 years so as to trick Columbia into thinking he was not at his peak anymore. In fact, I think that's why he got cancer, too. What an amazing psychological play!
My guess is, he also had something to do with the wind yesterday. Strategically blowing his massive lungs so that the wind blew hard.
Yep, I think I'm going to call it know. Lance will win every stage from here on out until the end of time!
The ride of the day however, has to go to Lance.
As people seem to think, it was an utterly planned strategy NOT to get yellow today.
He also went into retirement for 4 years so as to trick Columbia into thinking he was not at his peak anymore. In fact, I think that's why he got cancer, too. What an amazing psychological play!
My guess is, he also had something to do with the wind yesterday. Strategically blowing his massive lungs so that the wind blew hard.
Yep, I think I'm going to call it know. Lance will win every stage from here on out until the end of time!
TRaffic Jammer
07-07-09, 11:40 AM
It didn't look like L was pulling up near the line , Contador then pulled through I thought from where I was watching. Either way 4 riders in the GC top 5 :lol: Can't ask for a much better result than that. With LeTour's site posting positions 1 & 2 with the same times, that would have to have been one seriously magical pull up to NOT win MJ.
Reid Rothchild
07-07-09, 11:43 AM
Last time I was this excited, Floyd Landis had gained 8 minutes on the field and was back in yellow.
Actually, he didn't get into yellow with that ride to Morzine where he got back the time.
Actually, he didn't get into yellow with that ride to Morzine where he got back the time.
RudeSiggy
07-07-09, 11:44 AM
If you watch the race, I firmly believe that JB had given them cut times once saxo had finished and if they couldn't make it by XX:XX then the fifth rider shouldn't cross before YY:YY
If you watch the race, you'll see that it's Contador that takes over and hammers at the end when Lance is drilling it. These guys were all going all-out for time and the MJ would have been a bittersweet bonus.
I doubt that the next TTT we watch in the TdF will have "actual time" ruling (since they just changed the rule back). Even with a shorter route, Astana put some serious hurt on Cadel and Menchov, and a bit of time on the Schlecks.
If you watch the race, you'll see that it's Contador that takes over and hammers at the end when Lance is drilling it. These guys were all going all-out for time and the MJ would have been a bittersweet bonus.
I doubt that the next TTT we watch in the TdF will have "actual time" ruling (since they just changed the rule back). Even with a shorter route, Astana put some serious hurt on Cadel and Menchov, and a bit of time on the Schlecks.
TheKnack
07-07-09, 11:47 AM
Okay... honestly, I don't know enough about strategy to disagree, but it sounds kinda silly to the common sense nugget in my brain.
The team in yellow generally controls the chase. That's why Saxo bank was doing almost all the pulling (although it's been a bit more than normal, you'll see a few other teams rotate in as needed) The columbia takes it on when the chase is shut down and the sprint is on... because they're the alpha sprint team.
The team with yellow will do more work on the front, it's their stage to control.
The team in yellow generally controls the chase. That's why Saxo bank was doing almost all the pulling (although it's been a bit more than normal, you'll see a few other teams rotate in as needed) The columbia takes it on when the chase is shut down and the sprint is on... because they're the alpha sprint team.
The team with yellow will do more work on the front, it's their stage to control.
Howzit
07-07-09, 12:00 PM
I wonder is Columbia cares about today's results or not.
They certainly look bad looking back to Cavi's "junior" remark yesterday. Their tag-line of "best team in the wrold" didnt live up to its reputation thats for sure.
They got a win yestruday with some effort, Im wondering if they would have preferred a TTT win over yet another Cavi win. Everyone knows of Cavi by now, we are almost immune to those stage wins. A TTT i think would have made for some nice posters. Has more notoriety to it at this point.
Plus in press releases, they can say "This season we won 189 races, plus a Team Time Trial victory" Sounds more impressive that "This season we won 188 races"
They certainly look bad looking back to Cavi's "junior" remark yesterday. Their tag-line of "best team in the wrold" didnt live up to its reputation thats for sure.
They got a win yestruday with some effort, Im wondering if they would have preferred a TTT win over yet another Cavi win. Everyone knows of Cavi by now, we are almost immune to those stage wins. A TTT i think would have made for some nice posters. Has more notoriety to it at this point.
Plus in press releases, they can say "This season we won 189 races, plus a Team Time Trial victory" Sounds more impressive that "This season we won 188 races"
Tsuru
07-07-09, 12:16 PM
I wonder is Columbia cares about today's results or not.
They certainly look bad looking back to Cavi's "junior" remark yesterday. Their tag-line of "best team in the wrold" didnt live up to its reputation thats for sure.
They got a win yestruday with some effort, Im wondering if they would have preferred a TTT win over yet another Cavi win. Everyone knows of Cavi by now, we are almost immune to those stage wins. A TTT i think would have made for some nice posters. Has more notoriety to it at this point.
Plus in press releases, they can say "This season we won 189 races, plus a Team Time Trial victory" Sounds more impressive that "This season we won 188 races"
From Hincapie....
"was dissapointed with todays ride for about a second. we have won two out of four stages. lots to be happy about. congrats to astana."
Oh, and it looks like Piet is still in the hospital after his crash..
From koendekort....
"Piet is still in hospital, it looks like he broke his arm and some other injuries, he's still getting scans. What an unfortunate accident."
They certainly look bad looking back to Cavi's "junior" remark yesterday. Their tag-line of "best team in the wrold" didnt live up to its reputation thats for sure.
They got a win yestruday with some effort, Im wondering if they would have preferred a TTT win over yet another Cavi win. Everyone knows of Cavi by now, we are almost immune to those stage wins. A TTT i think would have made for some nice posters. Has more notoriety to it at this point.
Plus in press releases, they can say "This season we won 189 races, plus a Team Time Trial victory" Sounds more impressive that "This season we won 188 races"
From Hincapie....
"was dissapointed with todays ride for about a second. we have won two out of four stages. lots to be happy about. congrats to astana."
Oh, and it looks like Piet is still in the hospital after his crash..
From koendekort....
"Piet is still in hospital, it looks like he broke his arm and some other injuries, he's still getting scans. What an unfortunate accident."
DMF
07-07-09, 12:30 PM
I believe team ranking is according to the first three riders and they had that with Armstrong, Popovich and Zubeldia (sp?).
They've held it since the prologue.
and will keep it
They've held it since the prologue.
and will keep it
DMF
07-07-09, 12:39 PM
Columbia was a bit of a disappointment. Yesterday must have gotten to them.
Yesterday was their TTT and they won it by 40 sec. is that a magical number this year?
Yesterday was their TTT and they won it by 40 sec. is that a magical number this year?
Howzit
07-07-09, 12:41 PM
Yesterday was their TTT and they won it by 40 sec. is that a magical number this year?
Mmmm, good observation there. Didnt think of that, nice catch. :) :thumb:
Mmmm, good observation there. Didnt think of that, nice catch. :) :thumb:
DMF
07-07-09, 12:42 PM
[Garmin] shed 4 guys QUICK... helluva ride by 5.
That was the original plan, according to interview.
That was the original plan, according to interview.
Tsuru
07-07-09, 12:45 PM
That was the original plan, according to interview.
It seemed like it.... glad the lone Canuck held in there.
It seemed like it.... glad the lone Canuck held in there.
1bluetrek
07-07-09, 12:49 PM
Astana gave a clinic on how to ride a Team Time Trial today! I watched the finish a couple of times in Slow mo and freeze frame. Lance was the fifth rider, Yes? The fifth rider crossed the line at 46:27:08 according to the onscreen clock. Give Lance the Yellow!!
Laggard
07-07-09, 01:04 PM
Astana gave a clinic on how to ride a Team Time Trial today! I watched the finish a couple of times in Slow mo and freeze frame. Lance was the fifth rider, Yes? The fifth rider crossed the line at 46:27:08 according to the onscreen clock. Give Lance the Yellow!!
Don't work that way.
Don't work that way.
mcoomer
07-07-09, 01:36 PM
I really don't think lance or Astana wanted the MJ. Now Saxo still has to defend the yellow, I think this is exactly what JB wanted out of today.
I think you are exactly correct. If it had fallen to them they would wear it but Discovery always liked to have someone else wearing yellow till they hit the mountains. Remember the Thomas Voeckler sensation in 2004. Lance rode into Paris in yellow, didn't he? If Lance can still climb he's got a great shot at it again.
I think you are exactly correct. If it had fallen to them they would wear it but Discovery always liked to have someone else wearing yellow till they hit the mountains. Remember the Thomas Voeckler sensation in 2004. Lance rode into Paris in yellow, didn't he? If Lance can still climb he's got a great shot at it again.
unterhausen
07-07-09, 01:43 PM
That was the original plan, according to interview.I was trying to figure out how close this type of tactic puts the dropped riders to the time cutoff. Doesn't seem like there are any news articles out there explaining that aspect of the race.
DMF
07-07-09, 01:47 PM
It's a function of the winners time so the elimination time can't be pre-determined. But yes, it does put them in danger. As of now no eliminations are listed on the official site, though.
Howzit
07-07-09, 02:27 PM
Astana gave a clinic on how to ride a Team Time Trial today! I watched the finish a couple of times in Slow mo and freeze frame. Lance was the fifth rider, Yes? The fifth rider crossed the line at 46:27:08 according to the onscreen clock. Give Lance the Yellow!!
I have failed to follow you on this one?
Elaborate.
P.S If anyone gave a clinic, it was Liguigas.
I have failed to follow you on this one?
Elaborate.
P.S If anyone gave a clinic, it was Liguigas.
speedxl
07-07-09, 02:40 PM
I have failed to follow you on this one?
Elaborate.
P.S If anyone gave a clinic, it was Liguigas.
And they ended up where? :rolleyes:
Elaborate.
P.S If anyone gave a clinic, it was Liguigas.
And they ended up where? :rolleyes:
gregf83
07-07-09, 02:43 PM
The fifth rider crossed the line at 46:27:08 according to the onscreen clock.The VS onscreen clock is not the official clock.
Tsuru
07-07-09, 03:28 PM
Video with Lance on today... if you are interested: http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/video/stage-4-reaction-with-lance/7475892a-a31b-4a72-bb07-97a4ea34436b/
xfimpg
07-07-09, 03:50 PM
Is Fabian pretty beat with all the pulling he did? His teammates are disappointing in this regard. He is strong no doubt. At least tomorrow is flat again
I only caught the end of Stage 4; did Jens Voigt do any pulling for Saxo? I would expect him to be up there with Fabian.
I only caught the end of Stage 4; did Jens Voigt do any pulling for Saxo? I would expect him to be up there with Fabian.
reef58
07-07-09, 04:26 PM
Lance wanted yellow no doubt. It was probably his best chance to wear it again.
I would think the GC hopefuls had better start attacking Thursday. I know Thursday isn't the best stage, but time is limited. With the exception of Evans they will lose even more time in the ITT to the Astana riders.
Jeez barring a miracle this tour is pretty much over except for the race within Astana.
Richard
I would think the GC hopefuls had better start attacking Thursday. I know Thursday isn't the best stage, but time is limited. With the exception of Evans they will lose even more time in the ITT to the Astana riders.
Jeez barring a miracle this tour is pretty much over except for the race within Astana.
Richard
proud2becroat
07-07-09, 04:43 PM
This tour is far from over! If we see fight within Astana that could make them push on their limits and break... Schleck bro's, Evans, Sastre will give it a go no doubt about it and if Astana boys try to calculate to much they might have a problem. Sastre will most probably be the first one to pull the trigger in mountains and that's where show will start. Fun is just about to start and i won't miss it! :)
reef58
07-07-09, 04:50 PM
Well I think it will be exciting, but many of the other GC hopefuls are 2.5 to 4 minutes down already, and with the exception of Evans will likely lose more time in the ITT. So Sastre will have to drop Levi, Armstrong, Contador, and Kloden. Good luck with all of that.
Maybe Michael Rogers will have a good tour. I am pulling for him.
Richard
Maybe Michael Rogers will have a good tour. I am pulling for him.
Richard
SunSwingsLow
07-07-09, 05:17 PM
All i know is i loved every minute of the rides today. The TTT is a most beautiful sight indeed.
Congrats to FC on a magnificent ride. It was basically 1 vs 7 and he only lost 40 seconds.
No question that Astana and Lance wanted the yellow jersey but alas it was not to be. So we have 2 more stages before we will find out just what kind a snap LA has in those old legs. Finish with the contenders on 7 and all the LA haterz are gonna have a tizzy(yes im looking at you howzit).
Congrats to FC on a magnificent ride. It was basically 1 vs 7 and he only lost 40 seconds.
No question that Astana and Lance wanted the yellow jersey but alas it was not to be. So we have 2 more stages before we will find out just what kind a snap LA has in those old legs. Finish with the contenders on 7 and all the LA haterz are gonna have a tizzy(yes im looking at you howzit).
Tsuru
07-07-09, 05:18 PM
I only caught the end of Stage 4; did Jens Voigt do any pulling for Saxo? I would expect him to be up there with Fabian.
Everyone pulled, but FC pulled the most by far...
Everyone pulled, but FC pulled the most by far...
Howzit
07-07-09, 05:18 PM
Jeez barring a miracle this tour is pretty much over except for the race within Astana.
Richard
NNNOooooooooooooooo!!
Im still hoping Statre wins. I know, i know, long stretch, but I just think he has got more of a character of a champion than anyone else in the race.
Richard
NNNOooooooooooooooo!!
Im still hoping Statre wins. I know, i know, long stretch, but I just think he has got more of a character of a champion than anyone else in the race.
1bluetrek
07-07-09, 05:44 PM
I have failed to follow you on this one?
Elaborate.
P.S If anyone gave a clinic, it was Liguigas.
Elaborate? Jeez! Watch the replay! And I didnt see what Liquigas gave a clinic on, I must have missed it while I was watching the TTT today.
Elaborate.
P.S If anyone gave a clinic, it was Liguigas.
Elaborate? Jeez! Watch the replay! And I didnt see what Liquigas gave a clinic on, I must have missed it while I was watching the TTT today.
1bluetrek
07-07-09, 05:48 PM
The VS onscreen clock is not the official clock.
I know, I know! But I trust Versus and the announcers more than I trust certian organizers :D
I know, I know! But I trust Versus and the announcers more than I trust certian organizers :D
roadgator
07-07-09, 05:53 PM
Hats of to Lance.
FC stays in yellow, well, a sad day to yet again fall victim to Lance's master plan of course.
It's not necessarily a zero sum game. I can understand the arguments that Astana didn't want the jersey, and i'll see if lance did indeed soft-pedal when i watch it tonight. However, Cancellara is by no means cursed for having the jersey an extra day. Sure his team will work hard, but I'm sure they are plenty happy to still have the MJ. Considering that their GC men, the Shleck brothers would be at virtually the same time in either case, this may be their last real chance of having yellow as a team.
If you want to add another layer to your "lance is evil genius" bent, consider the power some of the "gifts" hes given in his career have to appease other riders/teams.
A universally hated rider would have the whole peloton against him. Charm, divide, and conquer.
FC stays in yellow, well, a sad day to yet again fall victim to Lance's master plan of course.
It's not necessarily a zero sum game. I can understand the arguments that Astana didn't want the jersey, and i'll see if lance did indeed soft-pedal when i watch it tonight. However, Cancellara is by no means cursed for having the jersey an extra day. Sure his team will work hard, but I'm sure they are plenty happy to still have the MJ. Considering that their GC men, the Shleck brothers would be at virtually the same time in either case, this may be their last real chance of having yellow as a team.
If you want to add another layer to your "lance is evil genius" bent, consider the power some of the "gifts" hes given in his career have to appease other riders/teams.
A universally hated rider would have the whole peloton against him. Charm, divide, and conquer.
Paniolo
07-07-09, 06:41 PM
I wonder is Columbia cares about today's results or not.
They certainly look bad looking back to Cavi's "junior" remark yesterday. Their tag-line of "best team in the wrold" didnt live up to its reputation thats for sure.
They got a win yestruday with some effort, Im wondering if they would have preferred a TTT win over yet another Cavi win. Everyone knows of Cavi by now, we are almost immune to those stage wins. A TTT i think would have made for some nice posters. Has more notoriety to it at this point.
Plus in press releases, they can say "This season we won 189 races, plus a Team Time Trial victory" Sounds more impressive that "This season we won 188 races"
Yeah, I think Columbia got exactly what they wanted yesterday (well they didn't want Cav spouting off about Jr racers!) and would trade potentially better results today for it. Columbia's main goal for the tour has to be the green jersey for their star rider Cav. Yeah, they hope Kirchen has a good gc campaign but to win a LOT of really weird stuff has to happen. So back to yesterdays points, Cavendish got 35 for the win, the only other real Sprinter/ points threat to make the split was Thor who got 30. All of his other rivals Boonan etc got 0, zip, nada. To make up those kind of points is going to be extremely difficult. Columbia basically turned the green jersey into a 2 man competition yesterday.
I think they would much rather have a press release with "We won the TdF Green Jersey" than "We won the Team Time Trial" if given a choice between the two.
They certainly look bad looking back to Cavi's "junior" remark yesterday. Their tag-line of "best team in the wrold" didnt live up to its reputation thats for sure.
They got a win yestruday with some effort, Im wondering if they would have preferred a TTT win over yet another Cavi win. Everyone knows of Cavi by now, we are almost immune to those stage wins. A TTT i think would have made for some nice posters. Has more notoriety to it at this point.
Plus in press releases, they can say "This season we won 189 races, plus a Team Time Trial victory" Sounds more impressive that "This season we won 188 races"
Yeah, I think Columbia got exactly what they wanted yesterday (well they didn't want Cav spouting off about Jr racers!) and would trade potentially better results today for it. Columbia's main goal for the tour has to be the green jersey for their star rider Cav. Yeah, they hope Kirchen has a good gc campaign but to win a LOT of really weird stuff has to happen. So back to yesterdays points, Cavendish got 35 for the win, the only other real Sprinter/ points threat to make the split was Thor who got 30. All of his other rivals Boonan etc got 0, zip, nada. To make up those kind of points is going to be extremely difficult. Columbia basically turned the green jersey into a 2 man competition yesterday.
I think they would much rather have a press release with "We won the TdF Green Jersey" than "We won the Team Time Trial" if given a choice between the two.
Rumpled
07-07-09, 06:43 PM
I'm just starting to watch this morning's taped VS coverage and lifeguard guy (sorry, his name escapes me right now) called Paul and Phil the Brits and their icons were both the Union Jack in the pregame. Isn't Paul from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe?
Another ? I know the team time is the 5th rider; but I saw online that dropped riders get their actual time, not the 5th. Is that the case?
Another ? I know the team time is the 5th rider; but I saw online that dropped riders get their actual time, not the 5th. Is that the case?
jaxgtr
07-07-09, 06:44 PM
Did some snarky comment removal.
SunSwingsLow
07-07-09, 07:00 PM
So is Lance credited with a stage win today?
xfimpg
07-07-09, 07:00 PM
Everyone pulled, but FC pulled the most by far...
That Cancellara is something else. Pure power! :thumb:
That Cancellara is something else. Pure power! :thumb:
Shadco
07-07-09, 07:19 PM
Wow FC just went up a ton imo.
Great race the schlecks don't deserve to benefit from FC's effort today.
Astana in the catbird seat if they can keep it together.
Evans and Sastre where they belong.
Great race the schlecks don't deserve to benefit from FC's effort today.
Astana in the catbird seat if they can keep it together.
Evans and Sastre where they belong.
kwrides
07-07-09, 08:14 PM
OK, I've said a bunch of bad things about LA lately. I admit it, the guy had a great ride today. GREAT. We'll see what happens in the mountains, but after two great rides in a row, I owe the guy some credit.
And +1 for DZ and FC, they carried their teams today. At least for what we saw on Vs.
And +1 for DZ and FC, they carried their teams today. At least for what we saw on Vs.
Eljimberino
07-07-09, 08:28 PM
Everyone pulled, but FC pulled the most by far...
Yes. Everyone did pull. To see O'Grady pull off was surprising. But it was not surprise to see Saxo bank have one of the quickest splits through the section that he pulled on.
Yes. Everyone did pull. To see O'Grady pull off was surprising. But it was not surprise to see Saxo bank have one of the quickest splits through the section that he pulled on.
lowlife1975
07-07-09, 08:39 PM
did you see tyler farrar get blown out the back early in the TTT! welcome to the tour de france kid...
TechKnowGN
07-07-09, 09:42 PM
did you see tyler farrar get blown out the back early in the TTT! welcome to the tour de france kid...
I saw the highlight of that. Ouch. But it's how you learn I guess.
I saw the highlight of that. Ouch. But it's how you learn I guess.
cervellomello
07-08-09, 12:33 AM
Lance...lance....lance
proud2becroat
07-08-09, 02:00 AM
did you see tyler farrar get blown out the back early in the TTT! welcome to the tour de france kid...
i think they are saving him for stage 5! ;)
i think they are saving him for stage 5! ;)
Rumpled
07-08-09, 02:17 AM
Ben Stiller is the ugliest podium girl ever. FC turned to his side and said no way I'm kissing you.
MikeM21
07-08-09, 06:41 AM
I'm just starting to watch this morning's taped VS coverage and lifeguard guy (sorry, his name escapes me right now) called Paul and Phil the Brits and their icons were both the Union Jack in the pregame. Isn't Paul from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe?
Another ? I know the team time is the 5th rider; but I saw online that dropped riders get their actual time, not the 5th. Is that the case?
GOOGLE!!!
He was born in Cheshire.
Another ? I know the team time is the 5th rider; but I saw online that dropped riders get their actual time, not the 5th. Is that the case?
GOOGLE!!!
He was born in Cheshire.