Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Quiet 1/8" chain

I plan to try a 1/8" drivetrain on my upcoming fixed gear.

I would like a quality bushed chain (although I won't reject a bushingless chain).

I have a totally silent 3/32 drivetrain, now, and I like quiet.

What experiences have the 1/8 riders on this forum had regarding the various chains and noise?

Please cite your chainring and cog when commenting on a specific chain, as the combination of components might have something to do with noise.

I presently plan on a Sugino 75 track ring and an EAI cog.

Thanks.

It will be silent when the chainline is completely straight.

oil can help. But a straight chainline will be the biggest factor.

FSA Pro Track Chainrings + Miche cogs + $8.00 KMC 1/8" BMX chain from LBS. Dead silent.

im running campy record chainring and EAI cog with a KMC chain, and it's been pretty quiet.

seriously it's not going to be that loud no matter wut you get, even if you notice it a little bit who cares?

I've run Salsa, Truvativ, and Cycle Underground rings with Surly and EAI cogs with pretty similar results with all. But, it did seem like the Surly cog was noisier. KMC chains of various types all seem to be the same.

But, it's worth mention that pretty much any combo starts out a bit noisy and then quiets down as the chainring, chain, and cog all wear together a bit. I'm always surprised at how noisy my drivetrain is when I replace my chain.

I run SG75 ring and EAI cog and it isn't too quiet. Might be my chain though.

i use a Shimano oval chain from Ben's Cycle, and it is totally silent. looks cool too!

oil not only "can help" but is actually pretty important.

wipe down and re-oil your chain daily and you will have the quietest ride your chainline will allow.

i run/roll/palp a cheesy aluminum "rocket ring" and a surly cog with a line 2mm out and, until the was breaks down after 10 or 15 km, it's dead silent.

why are you trying to go 1/8 inch? is it for the beefy chainrings?

1/8 is a ****ing waste of time. Stay with 3/32. 3/32 is faster, lighter and quieter. What more do you need?

strength. knowing that a 3/32 chain is thinner and therefore weaker is not cool when riding brakeless

strength. knowing that a 3/32 chain is thinner and therefore weaker is not cool when riding brakeless

is that sarcasm?

am i wrong? i wouldnt be surprised haha

why are you trying to go 1/8 inch? is it for the beefy chainrings?

I want to go to 1/8 in order to get access to the truer roundness of the Sugino 75 crank and chainwheels.

Since my original post I have gone ahead and ordered a black 170mm Sugino crank, a black 44 tooth Sugino Track chainwheel, a 19 tooth EAI cog, and a Wipperman 1R8 chain; all in 1/8".

A little history:

I started out with a Sugino RD crank, Sugino 130 BCD single-speed chainring, a no-name chain and a no-name cog.

I quickly discovered that the inner-or-outer position of the chainring on the RD crank REALLY mattered, as did having an EAI cog and a KMC 610 chain.

I then replaced the RD crank with a Stronglight crank and replaced the no-name bottom bracket with a Phil bottom bracket.

I found that if I "tunned" the Phil bottom bracket two threads to the right, and gave my 610 chain a daily wipe and oiling, this would give me a dead silent chain.

However, the Stronglight crank had a slight out of round condition, which I have since learned falls into the "normal" category, and this lack of roundness made it impossible to adjust my chain as tight as I would like it.

In trying to tune-out the out of roundness using Sheldon Brown's chainwheel adjusting method, I learned that the various imperfections of the drive train (cog, chainwheel, crank and rear-triangle-geometry) could all add up in a repeating cycle, sort of like a "perfect storm," so that a given combination might produce a particularly tight chain every third revolution of the crank, a particularly slack chain at other multiples of revolution, and at least two tight and two loose points in every cycle of spin.

Fascinating.

Talking to Kevin at Webcyclery, and John at Businesscycles, I further learned that the perfectly-round crankset and cog, and the perfectly-aligned rear triangle, don't exist.

However, as a general rule, as one spends more money, and especially on track components, the circle gets rounder...but never perfectly round.

Kevin, at Webcyclery, has very gently led me to the understanding that the pursuit of perfection will probably make one unhappy; whereas, one can have a lot of fun pursuing "pretty good."

However, I have another motive beyond "pretty good."

It looks more and more like I will not find a solution to the brake and sectioned-fork issue I raised in another thread, with the exception of a no-brake solution.

Given a no-brake solution, for safety reasons, I want to remove as many variables and potential unhappinesses as possible from my bike setup.

In my mind, having the safest possible drive-train (also stop-train) for riding with no brake means a taut chain that has minimal side-play.

By minimal side-play, I mean a laterally stiff chain.

People who review track chains sometimes measure the lateral stiffness of a chain in terms of how much or how little the chain will deflect sideways from straight when laid on a flat surface, and greater stiffness supposedly reduces the probability of throwing a chain.

Accordingly, bushed 1/8" chains demonstrate the greatest lateral stiffness.

All of the above said, John, at Businesscycles, told me I may or may not experience more drive train noise by going to a 1/8 drivetrain.

Anyway, since raising the original issue regarding chain noise, I have realized, with some help from adriano, that I want an EAI cog and a Sugino 75 crankset; and, that leaves only the selection of a chain.

From the experience of others, I know I want a chain with a spring clip master link.

I have found only three bushed 1/8" chains that come with a spring clip master link: the KMC D101 Silver/Gold; the Wipperman Whitestar; and, the Wipperman 1R8.

The $15-$18 Wipperman Whitestar represents the cheapest of the three chains, and the Wipperman 1R8 and KMC D101 both cost around $40.

Assuming one generally gets what he pays for, I have eliminated the Whitestar simply because at this point in my life I can afford to do so.

I can't find the D101 offered by an American distributor in silver, and so that leaves the 1R8.

There...I have my drivetrain.

Thanks.

I want to go to 1/8 in order to get access to the truer roundness of the Sugino 75 crank and chainwheels.


have you considered ta specialties?

If you listen to an iPod while riding like the hipsters do, you won't have to worry.

the whitestar is a perfectly fine chain.

Achieving drivetrain silence is not always as simple as choosing the right components and/or achieving a perfect chainline. I've had junky drivetrains with messed up chainlines that were dead silent, and I've had other drivetrains with perfect chainline made up of quality track parts that were noisy as hell.
In my experience different brand name cogs and chains don't effect the drivetrain noise much. It has more to do with the amount and type of lube, chain tension, and the state of wear of the various components. You can always expect your drivetrain to make some noise and there are a lot of variables that will effect how effectively that noise is transmitted. For example, switching to a deeper aluminum rim on my track bike increased the apparent noise of my drivetrain pretty dramatically. I've given up trying to make it silent. I keep it clean, replace worn parts, and maintain a good chainline, and I've have learned to not worry about the noise.

Achieving drivetrain silence is not always as simple as choosing the right components and/or achieving a perfect chainline. I've had junky drivetrains with messed up chainlines that were dead silent, and I've had other drivetrains with perfect chainline made up of quality track parts that were noisy as hell.
In my experience different brand name cogs and chains don't effect the drivetrain noise much. It has more to do with the amount and type of lube, chain tension, and the state of wear of the various components. You can always expect your drivetrain to make some noise and there are a lot of variables that will effect how effectively that noise is transmitted. For example, switching to a deeper aluminum rim on my track bike increased the apparent noise of my drivetrain pretty dramatically. I've given up trying to make it silent. I keep it clean, replace worn parts, and maintain a good chainline, and I've have learned to not worry about the noise.

Nice discussion.

Thanks.

I agree with everything mihlbach has written, and I'd like to add that in the past chainline has had a bearing on my drivetrain noise.

I think getting a Phil bottom bracket and having the ability to move the crankset a little more to the right made the biggest single difference in drivetrain noise.

I also discovered a blue liquid lube (I don't have the energy to go out in the garage and check the name) that seriously quieted down the drivetrain.

I really can't say why a quiet bike gives me so much satisfaction, but it does.

Funny: some guys want to go fast; some guys want to go fashionably; and I want to go minimally, precisely, safely and quietly (with a segmented fork).

=====

Deer don't seem able to recognize a person on a bicycle as a person on a bicycle, and so, if a person has a quiet enough bike, he or she can ride right into the middle of a family of deer without alarming them.

Not that I want to sneak up on deer...

i got sugino 75 cranks, a 45t sugino 'cubic' chainring, HKK Vertex GOLD Track Chain 1/2", and a sugion mash cog set running the 17t kog and all you can here is the tires rolling and the wind in your helmet...
at low speed it spooky...

a dead straight chain line helps alot i think and the 75 cranks are pretty slick with the 75 BB

I have had similar experience with my drivetrain as mihlbach and agree with what he says. Currently running, sealed shimano BB, 3/32 Suntour Cog, 3/32 Sugino Chainring, and 1/8 KMC 710sl with the only noise being the sound of the chain rotating on the cog.

the oval chain is sweet...i may pick one up...right now i am sporting the kmc kool chain on a messenger ring and surly cog...quiet enough for me, i have been using ice wax recently, does anyone else use this stuff?

I want to go to 1/8 in order to get access to the truer roundness of the Sugino 75 crank and chainwheels.

Since my original post I have gone ahead and ordered a black 170mm Sugino crank, a black 44 tooth Sugino Track chainwheel, a 19 tooth EAI cog, and a Wipperman 1R8 chain; all in 1/8".

A little history:

I started out with a Sugino RD crank, Sugino 130 BCD single-speed chainring, a no-name chain and a no-name cog.

I quickly discovered that the inner-or-outer position of the chainring on the RD crank REALLY mattered, as did having an EAI cog and a KMC 610 chain.

I then replaced the RD crank with a Stronglight crank and replaced the no-name bottom bracket with a Phil bottom bracket.

I found that if I "tunned" the Phil bottom bracket two threads to the right, and gave my 610 chain a daily wipe and oiling, this would give me a dead silent chain.

However, the Stronglight crank had a slight out of round condition, which I have since learned falls into the "normal" category, and this lack of roundness made it impossible to adjust my chain as tight as I would like it.

In trying to tune-out the out of roundness using Sheldon Brown's chainwheel adjusting method, I learned that the various imperfections of the drive train (cog, chainwheel, crank and rear-triangle-geometry) could all add up in a repeating cycle, sort of like a "perfect storm," so that a given combination might produce a particularly tight chain every third revolution of the crank, a particularly slack chain at other multiples of revolution, and at least two tight and two loose points in every cycle of spin.

Fascinating.

Talking to Kevin at Webcyclery, and John at Businesscycles, I further learned that the perfectly-round crankset and cog, and the perfectly-aligned rear triangle, don't exist.

However, as a general rule, as one spends more money, and especially on track components, the circle gets rounder...but never perfectly round.

Kevin, at Webcyclery, has very gently led me to the understanding that the pursuit of perfection will probably make one unhappy; whereas, one can have a lot of fun pursuing "pretty good."

However, I have another motive beyond "pretty good."

It looks more and more like I will not find a solution to the brake and sectioned-fork issue I raised in another thread, with the exception of a no-brake solution.

Given a no-brake solution, for safety reasons, I want to remove as many variables and potential unhappinesses as possible from my bike setup.

In my mind, having the safest possible drive-train (also stop-train) for riding with no brake means a taut chain that has minimal side-play.

By minimal side-play, I mean a laterally stiff chain.

People who review track chains sometimes measure the lateral stiffness of a chain in terms of how much or how little the chain will deflect sideways from straight when laid on a flat surface, and greater stiffness supposedly reduces the probability of throwing a chain.

Accordingly, bushed 1/8" chains demonstrate the greatest lateral stiffness.

All of the above said, John, at Businesscycles, told me I may or may not experience more drive train noise by going to a 1/8 drivetrain.

Anyway, since raising the original issue regarding chain noise, I have realized, with some help from adriano, that I want an EAI cog and a Sugino 75 crankset; and, that leaves only the selection of a chain.

From the experience of others, I know I want a chain with a spring clip master link.

I have found only three bushed 1/8" chains that come with a spring clip master link: the KMC D101 Silver/Gold; the Wipperman Whitestar; and, the Wipperman 1R8.

The $15-$18 Wipperman Whitestar represents the cheapest of the three chains, and the Wipperman 1R8 and KMC D101 both cost around $40.

Assuming one generally gets what he pays for, I have eliminated the Whitestar simply because at this point in my life I can afford to do so.

I can't find the D101 offered by an American distributor in silver, and so that leaves the 1R8.

There...I have my drivetrain.

Thanks.
im just gonna quote this just so you feel like you didnt type all this for nothing.

my alum. framed rush hour pro has always been noisy - I think the big tubes just resonate more than skinny steel tubes, not sure.

Exactly how tight do you want your chain to be? Running it too tight will caused increased wear/decreased life of not only your chain but your components. Plus, more noise.

im just gonna quote this just so you feel like you didnt type all this for nothing.

I lol'd.

1/8 is a ****ing waste of time. Stay with 3/32. 3/32 is faster, lighter and quieter. What more do you need?
1/8" chain allows you to mix and match 1/8" and 3/32" drive train components.

have you considered ta specialties?
FWIW, I haven't been terribly impressed with the roundness of TA rings.

what's so great about bushing chains? or what's so bad about bushingless chains?

Exactly how tight do you want your chain to be?

Sheldon Brown says no looser than 1/2" play at midpoint in the chain.

With a particularly out of round crankset, which will have two tight-points and two loose-points, having a loose-point at less than 1/2" play can mean a way too tight tight-point; and, conversely, leaving the tight-point loose enough can mean a too loose loose-point.

I would like a reasonably uniform tightness throughout the cycle of less than 1/2" play.

Several authorities say that a tight chain, up to a point, provides greater efficiency than a loose chain.


what's so great about bushing chains? or what's so bad about bushingless chains?

As near as I can tell, bushed chains have greater lateral stiffness, and, when properly maintained (cleaned and lubricated), may last a little longer than a bushingless chain.

Bushed chains pay a weight penalty for the bushings.

Bushingless chains weigh less than bushed chains and generally have a little less lateral stiffness.

For my transition to a 1/8 drive train, I want to try a bushed chain partly because of the alleged increased stiffness, but mostly because I have no experience with bushed chains and I want to see how they work for myself.

On my bareknuckle with Sugino 75 crank and Zen ring with EAI superstar cog, the quietest chain I have used is the Wipperman White Star. Cheap too, a little under 20$. The most important factor that I have noticed though, is to regularly drizzle some chain oil on it. After a lube and wipedown, its nearly silent for several hundred miles. Like sugarkane said, all I hear is tire noise and wind.

I ran the Izumi V for a while, until the little bolt and nut that holds it together came apart while I was flying along at about 30. Heard a rattle and something fall, and then wheeee, no pedal resistance. I only trust the spring clips now.

I will always run a 1/8" drivetrain, on my previous conversion I ran 3/32 chainring and cog, and within about a month the chainring had deformed, aluminum had been smushed over to the side. With the Sugino/Eai drivetrain, its all in real good shape after four years of hard riding

3/32 is faster

lol

I ran the Izumi V for a while, until the little bolt and nut that holds it together came apart while I was flying along at about 30. Heard a rattle and something fall, and then wheeee, no pedal resistance. I only trust the spring clips now.


I ran an Izumi ESH for 3-4 years. Loved them except for the price. Never had the screw fail. The nut came off a couple of times but the screw always held. I totaly recommend these chains.

last year I had to replace the chain ring and cog but did not a have a new chain. No way was I going to put an old chain on a new CR and cog. Went to several lbs and the best chain I could find was a Z510 HX. I have been riding on that since last fall and I have to admit it is nice. It ws quite and I have had no problems.

Right now it is starting to get loud, I know it is worn and I will replace soon. I am curious about the bushing /non bushing debate. I may have to try the White star chain...

Has anyone else noticed that when you first get a new drive train it is pretty quite. You ride on it a little then it is the BEST for a few months. Then the chain gets worn and it starts getting loud. Then the whole cycle starts over again?

We all known what Sheldon Brown has said about chain tension. I was asking how you ran yours because you made a comment that sounded like you felt the need to run it really tight if you were riding brakeless. I busted a screw in masterlink on a HKK chain in NYC traffic and learned that no matter what kind of masterlink, don't ever use them.

im just gonna quote this just so you feel like you didnt type all this for nothing.

LMAO :roflmao2::roflmao2:


i know wat you were thinking too when i saw his whole thang! humm next post...:D
:p

I busted a screw in masterlink on a HKK chain in NYC traffic and learned that no matter what kind of masterlink, don't ever use them.

So did it actaully bust/break apart or did it unscrew?

I have had one chain come off in the last 4-5 years and that was my fault. It was the ESH but I was doing about 30 mph down a hill and it came off. No issue, it didn't break, I just got to the bottom of the hill and put it back on but tightened up the tension. I run my chains really loose but this time it was VERY saggy loose.

I trust the screw on type master links but the z510 chain I have on now is pinned. I looked at the masterlink that came with it and said NO WAY!

I have been really impressed with the Miche drive train setup. All on the group buy stuff, minus some miche wheels i picked up on ebay, it is also dead silent. I didn't even have to try a second time to adjust the BB. Must have been lucky.
If I can get this crown race installed/replaced the mangled one i botched, I will get to check out zen ring and a miche 16t 1/8. im excited.

Deer don't seem able to recognize a person on a bicycle as a person on a bicycle, and so, if a person has a quiet enough bike, he or she can ride right into the middle of a family of deer without alarming them.

Not that I want to sneak up on deer...

hahahaha. I was once running (more like sprinting) on these trails in the woods with my friends in the middle of the night.
Before you say something, I was like 16, buzzed and shooting fireworks with friends.
Regardless, something huge all of a sudden popped in front of me and I basically tackled a deer.
The deer and I looked really confused at each other, then we ran away.
/end

the whitestar is a perfectly fine chain.

When I ordered the Wipperman 1R8, I flipped back and forth between pictures of the Whitestar and the 1R8 looking for a difference; I also read every description I could find of both chains, and again I couldn't find a difference.

For all I know, Wipperman sells the same chain under two different names and laughs at people like me who spend too much money for something I could've gotten at half the price.

Y'know, like Bud and Michelob?

I should probably order a Whitestar, too, and see if I can tell any difference in real life.

I used to worry about chain noise too... then I went to the world championships and was amazed how loud the bikes were. At the 1 minute mark or so of this video you can hear it:
http://vimeo.com/5087022

I used to worry about chain noise too... then I went to the world championships and was amazed how loud the bikes were.

I don't worry about it.

John at Businesscycles tells me some 1/8 drivetrains make a lot of noise, but that this doesn't signify anything wrong with them.

I ride a fixed gear bike for my own enjoyment, and in the past, with proper parts and maintenance, I have enjoyed a quiet 3/32 drivetrain.

If, with a little planning and maintenance I can have a quiet 1/8 drive train, I'd enjoy that.

Still, thanks to pazzmore for the video.

If I have a noisy drivetrain on my new bike, I will chalk that up as normal and in company with world champions.

I used to worry about chain noise too... then I went to the world championships and was amazed how loud the bikes were. At the 1 minute mark or so of this video you can here it:
http://vimeo.com/5087022

I've seen a bit of pro Keirin racing in Japan....noisy noisy.

strength. knowing that a 3/32 chain is thinner and therefore weaker is not cool when riding brakeless

You think you're going to put out more wattage than cippiloni? Or zabel in a sprint? Think they break chains in the final 50m? Give me a ****ing break. 10 speed chains are just as strong, or even stronger than 1/8 chains.

For ****s sake. You ****ing ******bags piss me off with your retardness.

When I ordered the Wipperman 1R8, I flipped back and forth between pictures of the Whitestar and the 1R8 looking for a difference; I also read every description I could find of both chains, and again I couldn't find a difference.

For all I know, Wipperman sells the same chain under two different names and laughs at people like me who spend too much money for something I could've gotten at half the price.

Y'know, like Bud and Michelob?

I should probably order a Whitestar, too, and see if I can tell any difference in real life.

I have no experience with the 1R8 other than noticing it costs $30. However, I swear by the Whitestar chain -- I think it's one of the better chains along with the KMC z510hx.

I will always run a 1/8" drivetrain, on my previous conversion I ran 3/32 chainring and cog, and within about a month the chainring had deformed, aluminum had been smushed over to the side. With the Sugino/Eai drivetrain, its all in real good shape after four years of hard riding

I highly doubt your failure had anything to do with the chain pitch -- In fact, I know it was not. Most likely it had to do with a cheap chainring, improper chainring bolt installation or torque, and general component abuse or lack of care.

I will always run a 1/8" drivetrain, on my previous conversion I ran 3/32 chainring and cog, and within about a month the chainring had deformed, aluminum had been smushed over to the side. With the Sugino/Eai drivetrain, its all in real good shape after four years of hard riding

Yeah just because you don't know how to install parts properly, or pick stuff that works on a conversion means that it's weak right. God the ignorance is blinding here. The amount of garbage this forum throws around is just incredible.

Yeah just because you don't know how to install parts properly, or pick stuff that works on a conversion means that it's weak right. God the ignorance is blinding here. The amount of garbage this forum throws around is just incredible.

oh you mean like:


...3/32 is faster...

lols

i use a Shimano oval chain from Ben's Cycle, and it is totally silent. looks cool too!

Good to hear. I've been contemplating what chain to buy next, to as soon as my SRAM PC-1 needs replacement.