Professional Cycling For the Fans - TdF Stage 14 - Saturday July 18 - 199 km - Colmar → Besançon

Astana was up front because nobody else wanted to be and there were 11 different teams in that breakaway. Astana did nothing to keep the pace up; the gap grew the whole time they were up front.
It'll be obvious to George later tonight that his indecision when Ivanov flew plus the rest of Columbia dragging Cavendish along for a shot at 13th place were what cost him his yellow jersey.

It'll be obvious to George later tonight that his indecision when Ivanov flew plus the rest of Columbia dragging Cavendish along for a shot at 13th place were what cost him his yellow jersey.

My thoughts exactly. During the commercials, right before Ivanov took off, I said that George needs to attack, since the breakaway was obviously no longer working well.

Just caught the last few miles after my ride...

Hincapie should've given his all, which I hope he did.
R2D2 tried to protect yellow, which they should.
Not sure why Garmin pushed, except that because Columbia was up there they wanted to beat them? Columbia should've held back....

It's a team sport, and team v. team, Hincapie has no one to get mad at except Columbia HTC, imo.


Fun day though, fun to see a little GC mix up and almost some new yellow! I just hope the poopy-head debbie-downer posters who come in at the beginning and end of each stage thread to bark, "haven't you watched the tour for the past X years?" will kinda shut up now?

Probably not.

Can't wait for tomorrow. Not the nastiest climb finish, but should still be fun!

My thoughts exactly. During the commercials, right before Ivanov took off, I said that George needs to attack, since the breakaway was obviously no longer working well.

+1. We were the saying the same thing at the bakery here in town where the masses gather at 5:30 to watch every day. Especially when it was down to 5k, I do not understand why he didn't just go.

Columbia: I would have to see it again but it looked like their train was pretty half hearted at the end, I was under the impression that they were just running out a train and marking Thor so that Cavendish wouldn't get further behind. They were all looking left to see what the rest of the field was doing. It really didn't look like they were bringing the pace up much; they were trying to give George a shot without destroying Cav's chances.

Astana: AC everyone has said, they only helped Hincapie. I thought it was really interesting when AC dropped back to have a long conversation with the boss. I was imaginging him saying "Are we rally just going to give this guy the yellow jersey?"

Garmin: If there's bad blood, what do you expect? I'm sure it pissed them off the self-proclaimed "Best Team in the World" beat out Farrar on multiple occasions. Maybe Columbia should take a page from Astana's book and keep their mouths shut.

I think the most interesting thing is that if we all (myself included) didn't think so highly of George, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Different teams pull all the time for all kinds of reasons. It's a race, and yet people are blaming certain teams for trying too hard! Is that not ridiculous? As much as it pains me to say, especially given how hard he worked in that break, if George had played his cards better he could've pulled it off.

Fun day though, fun to see a little GC mix up and almost some new yellow! I just hope the poopy-head debbie-downer posters who come in at the beginning and end of each stage thread to bark, "haven't you watched the tour for the past X years?" will kinda shut up now?


Totally! There have been several stages I expect to be completely boring, yet have turned out anything bu tit. On the other hand, some stages have gone the opposite direction. At any rate, it has been fun to see the unexpected keep happening in this tour.

Hah, Lance blamed Garmin for Hincapie's situation.

EDIT:
Yes, Hincapie is a threat in the mountains.

Actually no.

Anyway, George cost himself the yellow. Unless he had orders to sit and do as little as possible.

Just caught the last few miles after my ride...

Hincapie should've given his all, which I hope he did.
R2D2 tried to protect yellow, which they should.
Not sure why Garmin pushed, except that because Columbia was up there they wanted to beat them? Columbia should've held back....

It's a team sport, and team v. team, Hincapie has no one to get mad at except Columbia HTC, imo.


Fun day though, fun to see a little GC mix up and almost some new yellow! I just hope the poopy-head debbie-downer posters who come in at the beginning and end of each stage thread to bark, "haven't you watched the tour for the past X years?" will kinda shut up now?

Probably not.

Can't wait for tomorrow. Not the nastiest climb finish, but should still be fun!

Why? It's not like there was a re-shuffling of GC standings. It's also not nearly the first time a guy in the break competed to be in yellow and the leaders let him go because he was no real threat. I think it was '89 or '90 that one guy won the stage by 40 min and it took over a week for Lemond to make up the time...but no one cared because everyone knew the guy would not win. This was a fun stage filled with drama but will ultimately have no impact on the tour

It would have been great to see Georgie in yellow and Lance/Astana did their part to make it happen. Buffer they didn't succeed.

The Manx Missile. Awesome speed! Frightening acceleration! Incredible self-confidence! Occasionally doesn't hold a line!

Yet, if you stand back, what an incredibly narrow-skilled rider. He has to be carried along, maneuvered into position, guarded, led out, and then............after a 100 plus mile race (well, like, you know, only on "flat" days), he can do his thing for 200 meters and throw his arms in the air.

Kind of like a surgeon-- who only does appendixes. Heaven help him if he's a stander-by at car wreck.

Just sayin'.

You got something against sprinters?

Richard


The Manx Missile. Awesome speed! Frightening acceleration! Incredible self-confidence! Occasionally doesn't hold a line!

Yet, if you stand back, what an incredibly narrow-skilled rider. He has to be carried along, maneuvered into position, guarded, led out, and then............after a 100 plus mile race (well, like, you know, only on "flat" days), he can do his thing for 200 meters and throw his arms in the air.

Kind of like a surgeon-- who only does appendixes. Heaven help him if he's a stander-by at car wreck.

Just sayin'.

Why?

Dude, you are one of the debbie-downers, so the real question is "why" to you. Time and time again we see, **** happens, even if 99% of the time, it's exactly what you expect, every now and then **** goes down! Levi showed it only takes a little tumble and you are out, George showed it only takes a day with some great legs and you have a chance, Contador showed a little billy goating up a climb can cause a bit of a stir, and a bunch of French dudes, a German/Aussie, and now a Russian have showed that if you pedal your ass off, you may get a stage even though "THE MAN FROM THE ISLE OF MAN" or whatever is supposed to win.

Over and over again, man, the yankees are supposed to win, the dream team is supposed to win, this is supposed to happen and so is that, but it doesn't always, if it did, we'd never watch any of this sh*i. This is our "world series/superbowl/etc", why don't just roll with it and have a little fun?

If not, just go riding and leave us alone to have a little fun, okay?

Thanks....

Again, here's to a great Stage 15!

okaaaay... Cavendish got DQ'd for squeezing Thor against the barriers. But in the overhead shot shown later it turns out he very probably held a straight line and the road narrowed effectively initiating the squeezin'. When the race jury director was quizzed by the telly people he said "I don't care what anyone says I won't accept an appeal, no-matter what".

wow... seems super unfair.

discuss.

You got something against sprinters?

Richard

Yeah.....they're the hothouse flowers of cycling.

Good deal

Richard


Yeah.....they're the hothouse flowers of cycling.

in the post race interview george said he gave everything he had.

in the post race interview george said he gave everything he had.

he's an old guy with no wins this year. no reason to doubt his words.

ed rader

i wonder if george will re-think his post race comments tonight

Dude, you are one of the debbie-downers, so the real question is "why" to you. Time and time again we see, sh*t happens, even if 99% of the time, it's exactly what you expect, every now and then sh*t goes down! Levi showed it only takes a little tumble and you are out, George showed it only takes a day with some great legs and you have a chance, Contador showed a little billy goating up a climb can cause a bit of a stir, and a bunch of French dudes, a German/Aussie, and now a Russian have showed that if you pedal your ass off, you may get a stage even though "THE MAN FROM THE ISLE OF MAN" or whatever is supposed to win.

Over and over again, man, the yankees are supposed to win, the dream team is supposed to win, this is supposed to happen and so is that, but it doesn't always, if it did, we'd never watch any of this sh*t. This is our "world series/superbowl/etc", why don't just roll with it and have a little fun?

If not, just go riding and leave us alone to have a little fun, okay?

Thanks....

Again, here's to a great Stage 15!

If you paid any attention to my posts, you would realize that I'm enjoying the tour and I have an appreciation for the various things that can and do happen from day to day. My criticism has been directed at the folks who predict huge shakeups amongst the overall GC contenders on stages where it's obvious that it will not happen. Georgie going on a breakaway and getting into yellow on the road was terrific. I loved yesterday's breakaway and the emotion that the rider had as he crossed the finish. Overall, this tour has had more memorable moments than most in recent years...they just haven't been related to the overall GC race.

There's a big difference between someone predicting that a breakaway will stick vs. predicting Cadel, Sastre, or Schlek will mount a huge attack on a stage where the final climb is a category 2 with a 40Km downhill/flat run to the finish.

I have no problem with people having fun...in fact, I think the tour is more fun the more you know about it and understand the nuances. Then again that is just my opinion. Of course, if being ill-informed and looking stupid is more fun for you...have at it.

Okay... sorry then!

Isn't it tactically better for Garmin for Ag2R to have kept the yellow jersey? This week, Astana has been looked towards to control the peloton with Ag2R because they're not strong enough alone. If Columbia had the yellow jersey, the responsibility would have been taken off of Astana's shoulders, as they are a strong team. As Astana is bigger competition than Columbia for the GC, Garmin would want Astana to work as hard as possible. It makes sense tactically to me for Garmin to have prevented George from getting the jersey.

Isn't it tactically better for Garmin for Ag2R to have kept the yellow jersey? This week, Astana has been looked towards to control the peloton with Ag2R because they're not strong enough alone. If Columbia had the yellow jersey, the responsibility would have been taken off of Astana's shoulders, as they are a strong team. As Astana is bigger competition than Columbia for the GC, Garmin would want Astana to work as hard as possible. It makes sense tactically to me for Garmin to have prevented George from getting the jersey.


I think you nailed it! Lance and Johan have both said as much, basically saying George in yellow and Columbia defending would be good for Astana.

see: http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/95404/

It's safe to assume that what is good for Astana is bad for everyone else, so it makes sense to me that a team worked to keep the yellow jersey with Ag2R. As someone else said, if it was someone other than George, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Regarding Cavendish, I think it sucks that he got relegated, looked to me like the barriers/road moved, not him. Also, I get how the points work, but I still think it's BS that someone who has won four stages can somehow be behind in points to someone who has won only one.

Regarding Cavendish, I think it sucks that he got relegated, looked to me like the barriers/road moved, not him. Also, I get how the points work, but I still think it's BS that someone who has won four stages can somehow be behind in points to someone who has won only one.

Cav wasn't looking where he was going. He kept looking to the left and moved his bike to the right. It wouldn't have happened if he paid better attention.

Cav isn't very consistent. He's either at the front or nowhere near it.

Cav wasn't looking where he was going. He kept looking to the left and moved his bike to the right. It wouldn't have happened if he paid better attention.

Cav isn't very consistent. He's either at the front or nowhere near it.

I agree with your first point, but disagree with the 2nd. He's been at the front every time he's had the big leadout in pack sprints. This one was different, b/c Columbia was trying to both help Cavendish and not hurt George - and they ended up serving both masters poorly. That's why all the Columbia riders including Cavendish at the front were looking back instead of driving hard to the line, as they normally have.

But, from the replays I saw, it didn't look like Cavendish changed lines or veered so much as the barricade slanted in and squeezed Hushovd; to me, that relegation was a really excessive penalty for no foul.

Okay... sorry then!

No worries :thumb: Pretty cool of you to post that...I had to double check that I was really on BikeForums :)

Let's all keep our fingers crossed for an exciting Stage 15!!!

Well, we all know the teams make deals with each other and that sorts of stuff. I think someone broke their end of the deal. Apparently AG2r said they wouldn't defend then they did; then Garmin came out of nowhere to really put the death nell in Hincapies coffin today.

I don't think Astana is to blame because they held tempo, it was Ag2r and Garmin at the end.

Excuse me, but that's just ridiculous, the primary obligation for the team holding the yellow jersey is keeping the yellow jersey, and especially for a French team. There's no way AG2R made any deals to give away the jersey. The only reason they didn't work that hard yesterday was, that they couldn't, because they spent too much strength already keeping Nocentini in the front.

And isn't it kind of demeaning towards Hincapie to demand he should be gifted yellow?
If he gets it - great, he would've certainly deserved it. But if he isn't fast enough to do it - so what? Pro bike racing isn't a charity.

Actually no.

Anyway, George cost himself the yellow. Unless he had orders to sit and do as little as possible.

+1 I like George and all too but I do remember that in his last Tour win every one was saying how he got it by basicaly not pulling at all and just being bait for Discovery(or was it Postal).

Garmin Sucks.

Garmin Sucks.

Nah, they are doing pretty good.

Isn't it tactically better for Garmin for Ag2R to have kept the yellow jersey? This week, Astana has been looked towards to control the peloton with Ag2R because they're not strong enough alone. If Columbia had the yellow jersey, the responsibility would have been taken off of Astana's shoulders, as they are a strong team. As Astana is bigger competition than Columbia for the GC, Garmin would want Astana to work as hard as possible. It makes sense tactically to me for Garmin to have prevented George from getting the jersey.

+1 OMG, I've been thinking the same thing since yesterday. I think Garmin did themselves a disservice to claim all this garbage about "not wanting to get caught out" and simply state that letting any team other than Astana set the tempo going forward was not good for their two guys vying for the GC. By saying that it becomes a tactical decision and not a personal one. All that being said, it would have been good for american cycling for Hincapie to be wearing yellow for at least one day.

Isn't it tactically better for Garmin for Ag2R to have kept the yellow jersey? This week, Astana has been looked towards to control the peloton with Ag2R because they're not strong enough alone. If Columbia had the yellow jersey, the responsibility would have been taken off of Astana's shoulders, as they are a strong team. As Astana is bigger competition than Columbia for the GC, Garmin would want Astana to work as hard as possible. It makes sense tactically to me for Garmin to have prevented George from getting the jersey.

+1, Great call kuf. That especially makes sense in the aftermath of stage 15.

Interesting write up from Roche on this stage about squating in the break:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/they-called-me-every-name-under-the-sun-1830452.html


There was a lot of fighting in the crosswinds for the first 20kms on this stage. As usual, my team was trying to get somebody into any move that went clear. The benefit of having someone in the break when your team has the yellow jersey is two-fold.

Firstly, if we got a rider into the break, he could sit on the back in defence of Rinaldo Nocentini's yellow jersey, not have to do any work in the break and could possibly win the stage if the group stayed clear.

Secondly, once the gap didn't grow enough to allow one of the breakaways take over the race lead, the rest of the team wouldn't have to drag the peloton along behind, because they would be chasing their own man down.

My team-mates were jumping on anything that moved, and after about 20kms, I slotted onto the back of a big group. There were 13 riders in it, with most of the teams represented. They drove along for about 50kms to establish a gap and then built up a lead of over seven minutes at one stage. My orders were to sit at the back of the group and not contribute to the workload.

ABUSE

Sitting on the back of a break all day means you can't win, even if you do cross the line first. If you win, everybody says you didn't ride all day. If you don't win, they ask how could you not have won.

Up front, Italy's Daniel Bennati of Liquigas and his Belgian team-mate Frederik Willems gave me tons of abuse, as did the Italian, Daniele Righi of Lampre.

They gave me so much abuse it was unbelievable. They called me every name under the sun because I didn't work in the break. The other 10 guys, though, knew they would be doing the same in my position and just got on with it. George Hincapie, who at one stage looked like taking over in yellow on the stage, won a mountains stage a few years back by defending Lance Armstrong's yellow jersey in exactly the same way.

With 50 kms to go, Bennati came up to me and said: "You're going to have to pay me a lot of money if you want to win this stage or you will never win, because I will chase you down. There's no way you're going anywhere without me."

The Italians would have preferred anyone to win rather than me.

When I attacked with 11 kms to go, I gave it everything into a headwind on the final hill of the stage. But the first one on my wheel was Bennati. When he came up to me, I swung across the road and Russian champion Sergei Ivanovo counter attacked and nobody moved.

I knew it was game over. Two more went clear and I thought "how am I going to get back up to salvage anything". With 2kms to go, I just went absolutely flat out and caught the two chasers just before the finish. I decided to sprint straight past and if they got my wheel, they got my wheel, if they didn't I would get second, which is what happened.

Second on a stage of the Tour. If I had been offered that at the start, I would have taken it with both hands, but after the stage there wasn't the pleasure that should have been there. I was disappointed.

I found out later, when my Italian girlfriend Stephania phoned me, that Bennati had gone on live TV and told the world that I was a small rider and that nobody should have any respect for me. In fact the first two words out of his mouth when asked what he thought of the stage were, "****** Roche!" I twisted and turned a lot that night before I went to sleep.

This morning before the start, I waited along with the Italian media outside the Liquigas team bus. We were all waiting on one man -- Daniel Bennati. While they were waiting to grab him for a few words, I was waiting to grab him by the throat -- and that's exactly what I did, in front of the press.

I told him he needed to give me some respect and that he would have done exactly the same thing as I did the day before, had he been in my shoes. You do whatever your team manager tells you. If he tells you not to ride, you don't ride. If he didn't understand that the priority was the yellow jersey on my team, then he doesn't understand cycling.

In the end, I had all my team-mates working hard to close the gap so Hincapie wouldn't take the jersey. Nocentini only held onto yellow by five seconds in the end. If I had ridden even once, he could have lost those five seconds. I told him if he had a problem, he should have come to me after the stage, not go on live television. I think he was surprised I had the balls to go and grab him in front of the Italian press, but the cheeky b*****d said he did nothing wrong.

Yesterday was miserable and I was hanging on the whole day. I think I was more mentally tired than anything. It was one of the worst days I've had on a bike in ages. I was going out the back almost from the start. Very few riders congratulated me on Saturday's second place, apart from a few friends. Righi even came back and had another go at me, calling me a b*****d. My legs felt like I was riding into a brick wall

I decided to ask Lance Armstrong what he thought of the whole situation. I speak with him every day and he's sound enough. I told him all the stuff that happened. He basically said that it's just a bike race and every team has their own interests. There's no right, no wrong, only points of view, which made sense actually.

He told me that Hincapie was disappointed because my team was chasing behind and he eventually lost his one chance of going into yellow. I explained that it was the riders and not the team manager who had decided to chase. They had worked hard for the previous eight days and wanted one last day in yellow. Yesterday they got it. Rinaldo lost his yellow jersey to Armstrong's team-mate Alberto Contador on the climb to Verbiers.

On the final climb, I brought Nocentini to the front just before the bottom. I got dropped when Contador attacked and totally sat up with about 5kms to go, mentally drained. I lost six minutes, which isn't actually too bad. Although I can't wait for this race to end, I'm looking forward to the rest day today and a good lie in.

- Stage 14 (Saturday) Colmar to Besancon (199K) Stage 15 (YESTERDAY) Pontarlier to Verbiers (207.5k)

Super interesting, I wish I could read more in depth commentaries from the riders. Feel bad for the guy.