Professional Cycling - TdF Stage 14 - Saturday July 18 - 199 km - Colmar → Besançon

I'll go out on a limb here. Cav 1, Thor 2.

Looks like a good day for a good long ride, then come home and catch some highlights...

Seems like a day for Hushovd to gain a few more points.

Looks like a good day for a good long ride, then come home and catch some highlights...

that's what I'm doing, will watch it live on sunday

Well I've guessed wrong in just about every stage so far so might as well keep the streak going! I will henceforth stick my neck out and pull for Tyler Farrar to finally beat Cav in a sprint. He is due...in fact he's beyond due! :thumb:

I'll predict Cavendish. I expect he's pretty ticked about losing Green today.

I'll predict Cavendish. I expect he's pretty ticked about losing Green today.

He doesn't deserve green if can't get his ass through a few climbs. Just showing up at the last few kilometers to motor through the pack is not greatness, imo.

He doesn't deserve green if can't get his ass through a few climbs. Just showing up at the last few kilometers to motor through the pack is not greatness, imo.

He's still got to finish the tour (which would be his first complete grand tour, I think), which means getting himself up Mount Ventoux, not to mention over the alps-lite this year. I expect he will, and will deserve some credit then.

He doesn't deserve green if can't get his ass through a few climbs. Just showing up at the last few kilometers to motor through the pack is not greatness, imo.


I dunno, it's just a different kind of greatness. Nobody can beat him in the sprint. There is something to be said for that. He's got a great team though.

Guess, after watching today, with him losing the green in a pre-alps, not being able to hang with the peloton, & the beyond classy/emotional win we DID see today vs. the phone call or the "green glasses", I don't know, just weak man. He can't help his team, his team can only help him, and without his team, he probably would've never got near green.

...He can't help his team, his team can only help him, and without his team, he probably would've never got near green.

It is a team sport. Nobody would get near anything in a Grand Tour without a team.

I like the self-assurance he has, and it's fun seeing him change from day to day. In addition to going faster than everyone else, he and Thor are playing some serious head games with each other. Pretty fun stuff, IMO.

Yeah, true true.... I got a little "psh" on him today, like I did in the Pyrenees..

I predict Lance will be the next rider who is shot.

No video coverage of this stage? Or does it start later?

8:30

I just got back from work, what happened to Voight? They're saying he was unlucky to get dropped from the breakaway but not giving any detail.

Big George sure is getting a lot of time. Alberto seems concerned.

Richard

Yeah, true true.... I got a little "psh" on him today, like I did in the Pyrenees..

Its not like Thor is some saint in the peleton. See him cuss out some random rider who beat him across the line because Thor let up? Lets not demonize Cavendish simply because hes the fastest at the line. Sprinters have a different mentality and a flair for the dramatic. The faster they are the more dramatic they tend to be.

stupid move by columbia... they could have gotten hincapie 6 seconds...

Interview with George, and he is PO'ed. I did see him looking around a lot in the last 10k. He should have done a time trial, and drag the others if he wanted yellow.

Richard

Hincapie looked infuriated. It was completely warranted but, such hostility in that last interview!

Hincapie seemed mad at Astana. :|

What's he mad at? That's racing, you either win from your efforts or you don't.

Hincapie Blaming Astana? C'mon .... If he wants to blame anyone he can blame himself for not going faster.

He knows better than anyone . . . that's racing.


Take it like a Man George! . . . whining does not suit you.

At the same time what did Astana gain from chasing him down. Absolutly nothing.

It was justified. There was no reason for Astana or Garmin to have chased Hincapie.

I didn't see Astana chasing the break. They actually let it get to 8 or 9 minutes. AG2R took over closed it some, and the Garmin finished it off.

Richard

Could someone who saw Hincapie's interview on VS explain something to me.
Okay I get that Columbia had to pull near the end to get Cav in, but why was Hincapie so upset at Astana and Garmin for going to the front. I like George a lot, but just don't understand what the argument is for another team to just let him have the yellow jersey. If I'm on a team that has multiple GC contenders in the top 10 (Astana and Garmin specifically since they were kind of called out in the interview) going into the mountains, I'd be more concerned about giving someone like George who could potentially be a threat in the mountains as opposed to Nincontini(sp?), who is probably going to get trounced.
I'm sorry, but it's a race. I don't know that teams owe each other anything. Besides Cav did a lot of talking about Garmin focusing strictly on the TTT at the Giro and TdF.

Hah, Lance blamed Garmin for Hincapie's situation.

EDIT:
Could someone who saw Hincapie's interview on VS explain something to me.
Okay I get that Columbia had to pull near the end to get Cav in, but why was Hincapie so upset at Astana and Garmin for going to the front. I like George a lot, but just don't understand what the argument is for another team to just let him have the yellow jersey. If I'm on a team that has multiple GC contenders in the top 10 (Astana and Garmin specifically since they were kind of called out in the interview) going into the mountains, I'd be more concerned about giving someone like George who could potentially be a threat in the mountains as opposed to Nincontini(sp?), who is probably going to get trounced.
I'm sorry, but it's a race. I don't know that teams owe each other anything. Besides Cav did a lot of talking about Garmin focusing strictly on the TTT at the Giro and TdF.

I think he was disappointed because Astana stood to gain nothing by closing the gap between the peloton and the breakaway group. Yes, Hincapie is a threat in the mountains and he should not have been taken lightly but he knew he was riding for possibly only a day at the top of the GC and by closing that gap down Astana helped to take that away from him. Perhaps his history of riding with Lance bothered him the most? He was there for all seven wins if I am not mistaken. After all of that LA could have surely given him this, no?

The 3 seconds he lost was all he wanted—those 3 seconds would not have been race-changing at this point. Something was certainly taken from him while nothing was gained for Astana or Garmin. They couldn't care less about keeping Nocentini in 1st—either way AC and LA were bumped from 2nd and 3rd. The pressure would have remained off as they entered the Alps.

Well Garmin & Lotto did in George. Astana actually gave George an 8 minute gap.

Richard


Hah, Lance blamed Garmin for Hincapie's situation.

Yeah just read his Twitter.

Cavendish was relegated to the back of the field for not holding his line.

He now trials Thor by 18 points.


Columbia can have a pity party tonight:lol:

George is not a threat in the mountains. Astana was leading the pack for a while and held the time from getting to far away. Then eventually the yellow jerseys team took the pace, which they couldnt hold near the end so Garmin went up to help. I would be mad too. Garmin had no reason to be up there. There sprinter wasn't even at the front for the sprint. Astana had no reason to hold the pace either.

Astana held the gap to a reasonable amount. It is one thing to give George Yellow, but it is another to give him yellow and 5 minutes.

Richard


George is not a threat in the mountains. Astana was leading the pack for a while and held the time from getting to far away. Then eventually the yellow jerseys team took the pace, which they couldnt hold near the end so Garmin went up to help. I would be mad too. Garmin had no reason to be up there. There sprinter wasn't even at the front for the sprint. Astana had no reason to hold the pace either.

well garmin & lotto did in george. Astana actually gave george an 8 minute gap.

Richard

yes

They gave the break 8 minutes!. To think Astana calculated this down to a matter of seconds is absurd . This is bike racing . . . every person or team for themselves . . . you finish where you finish.

Since when was it all about George?

I watched the full coverage of the stage. My impression. Astana was riding at the front to maintain the potential lead of Hincapie to 1-2 minutes (7-8 minute breakaway lead)

Breakaway was 12 riders - a lot more dangerous than your typical 2-4 man braekaway.

Hincapie actually put his team in an awkward position today - with a lot still at stake for the green jersey. In fact, Cavendish may have lost the Green Jersey competition today because of what happened.

I wonder what the atmosphere in the Columbia bus is right about now...

here's armstrong's twitter feed:


St14 done. Sounds like there's quite a bit of confusion over this one... Noone, and I mean noone, wanted George in yellow more than me.

Our team rode a moderate tempo to put him in the jersey by at least 2 mins. Ag2r said they would not defend then they started to ride.

Until 10km to go he was solidly in yellow until GARMIN put on the gas and made sure it didn't happen.

And I reiterate. @ghincapie deserves to be yellow tonight. He deserves more than that. Look to who pulled the last 50k to see who to blame..


and zabriskie's:

Pawns in their game...

George is not a threat in the mountains. Astana was leading the pack for a while and held the time from getting to far away. Then eventually the yellow jerseys team took the pace, which they couldnt hold near the end so Garmin went up to help. I would be mad too. Garmin had no reason to be up there. There sprinter wasn't even at the front for the sprint. Astana had no reason to hold the pace either.


This^^

I would say Nocientini is a much greater threat in the mountains than George. Lest we forget, he earned his yellow on the climb to Arcalis. That said, both of them are losing 3+ minutes over the next two stages.

George can be pissed, but Garmin is under no obligation to sit up just because George could get yellow. It's a bike race.

If you remember Cav's comments surrounding the Giro TTT, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of love lost between Col-HTC and Garmin.

From Johan Bryneel's Twitter:

Bummed, really bummed about George Hincapie not getting yellow. Won't elaborate on the strategies but what Garmin did was just BS. Sorry!

Well, we all know the teams make deals with each other and that sorts of stuff. I think someone broke their end of the deal. Apparently AG2r said they wouldn't defend then they did; then Garmin came out of nowhere to really put the death nell in Hincapies coffin today.

I don't think Astana is to blame because they held tempo, it was Ag2r and Garmin at the end.

Astana did not chase...they kept tempo to ensure GH was in yellow by a couple of minutes, and to prevent break from ballooning to ridiculous times. It was Garmin and AG2R.

I'll step out on a limb here and predict a Columbia implosion and Cavendish withdrawal before the end of the Alps.

Seems very odd - George blaming Astana in the post-race interview, when Garmin & Silence-Lotto were driving the peloton late (when neither even had sprint contenders being led out).

Sounds like there's been bad blood between Garmin & Columbia for awhile, but at least the Lance faction of Astana ought to be big Hincapie fans, for past loyalty and hard work. There must be something more going on - some kind of deal made between teams we don't know about, once AG2R couldn't keep the pace up themselves, for the front of the peloton to keep Nocentini in yellow.

Cavendish being relegated today might change his desire to make it through the Alps all the way to Paris.

i hate twitter so much.

George got ****ed today. By his own team and Garmin. I'd be furious with my team if they pulled that crap, especially with Cavendish getting sent to the back.

Columbia were not able to put their usual 'train' in motion today at the end of the stage. This change in tactics ultimately resulted in Cavendish getting demoted and possibly losing the Green Jersey competition to Hushovd.

Given the severity of the ride tomorrow, I believe Astana did all they could to accommodate Hincapie without having to end up doing too much work when it was not needed. Of course they could have spotted Hincapie 5 minutes in yellow - but we all know what happened in Pontarlier a few years ago.

George can be pissed, but Garmin is under no obligation to sit up just because George could get yellow. It's a bike race.

If you remember Cav's comments surrounding the Giro TTT, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of love lost between Col-HTC and Garmin.

Based on the past "trash talking" that's gone on between these teams in the past few months, I find it hard to believe that Columbia would give Garmin any "gifts" either. But that's just my opinion.
As others have said, that's racing.

I just got back from work, what happened to Voight? They're saying he was unlucky to get dropped from the breakaway but not giving any detail.

I found live video on him in a language I can't understand but I think he had a rear flat, got a slow change by a neutral Mavic car, and had that new wheel fail and/or be incompatible. The feed was fuzzy so I couldn't see what was wrong exactly.

The camera man on the bike was close enough to hear him talk and I think (had to hear his accented English over the Dutch (?) commentator) he was saying he wasn't happy with the wheel change, he told the cameraman to leave him alone and either told the camera bike to go ahead and go follow the leaders or that he was no longer able to catch up.

Then he soft pedaled, looking back for the peloton and decided to stop, checked his bad rear wheel, and took a nature break. Camera bike stopped and zoomed and he yelled for some privacy.