Living Car Free - off-grid living from the ground up

Lately I've been fantasizing day and night about the possibility of living off the grid completely. I'm thinking solar power/heating, well water with grey-water recycling and treatment, subsistence farming, and geothermal heating/cooling systems. I've already planned for a while to make sure my first car (that just died) would be the last I owned. I'm thinking a little beyond that.

Help me indulge in this fantasy a little longer. Has anyone here managed to go off the grid completely? Where did you start out? How long did it take you to cut yourself off from the grid?

off the grid would mean no internet?

Rowan and I are completely off the grid as far as traditional power goes. Any power to this area burnt out during the bushfires in early February (Rowan's home also burnt down in the bushfires, as did the homes of approx. 2000 other people), but there wasn't power up here where we are currently living anyway.

I'm powering this computer with the use of a generator which is humming away outside, and we also have limited solar power. It was connected up to some rather inadequate batteries when Rowan moved here, and he has purchased better batteries which he will likely connect this weekend. He is also looking for a more extensive solar system.

Along with our desire for limited generator use and more solar use has been the quest to convert everything from 240 Volt power to 12 Volt power. That has been a bit of a challenge, but I think we now have lights that are 12 Volt (they still need to be installed) and we have a car-cooler to keep meat for a few days that is also 12 Volt.

But I will add that wireless internet access is great up here in the hills ... good signal! :)

There is no plumbing up here, so our water is rain water collected in a cistern up the hill a ways. This does power a flush toilet, I'm pleased to say, so that we did not have to go the long-drop route. We've also got another cistern next to the cabin. Over the past few days Rowan has installed piping from the cisterns into the cabin so that we have cold running water into a sink. We are trying to get a battery-operated hot water heater to work, but it is presenting some challenges.

Over the past few days we also moved a cast-iron tub that was outside into the cabin, and in a moment when the hot water heater was working we managed to fill the tub with very hot water and bathe. :) However, we can't do that too often because we are dependent on rain water and it hasn't been raining a whole lot in the past week. We are thinking about some sort of shower system.

Our heating is the fireplace, and we are in the process of insulating the cabin so that it retains the heat. That's been a bit of a problem, especially as winter is fast approaching. The last couple mornings it has been frosty outside, and only +5C inside.

These are some photos of our place, and I will be posting more later today. But in the photos you can see our solar panel, and the cisterns, etc.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14302884@N04/sets/72157619719051119/

This cabin is located on 1200 acres of land owned by the people who own the orchard (also on this land) where Rowan works. They've been generous enough to allow us to live here for an indefinite period of time ... especially considering there is no housing in this area because so much of it was destroyed.

There is a track ... not much more than a cow path ... that goes on for a km or more to get to a rough gravel road that goes on for about 2-3 km to finally get to the paved road. From the paved road, it is another 5 km to either of the two very small towns on either side of us.

Because the land and particularly this cabin are so remote, we have been borrowing vehicles to run around and get the stuff necessary to make ourselves comfortable up here. While living car free would be an ideal, we think it is not practical in our circumstances, and therefore we are looking for a vehicle.

Haha Machka, I was thinking of you when I posted this! I checked out your pictures yesterday and thought the outdoor bathtub was great.

Some telecommunications would probably be necessary and practical. I'm banking on internet and telephone service through cell tower service having a much greater coverage and lower cost within the next 10 years. Solar power, likewise, is expected to drop in price.

Haha Machka, I was thinking of you when I posted this! I checked out your pictures yesterday and thought the outdoor bathtub was great.

Some telecommunications would probably be necessary and practical. I'm banking on internet and telephone service through cell tower service having a much greater coverage and lower cost within the next 10 years. Solar power, likewise, is expected to drop in price.

The outdoor tub (which worked by filling it, and then lighting a fire under it) has moved inside. :)

Wireless internet is quite reasonable, and we're using Skype for phone calls, which is also quite reasonable.

airstream bambi?

In the old days, about 150 years ago, some people would head for what was then known as a "poor man's county". This is where land was cheap, the climate relatively mild, and where you could coon hunt all winter and fish all summer. Popular areas were the Ozarks, West Virginia, Kentucky and parts of Tennessee and Mississippi.

I don't know if it's possible to live like that any more, but back in those days subsistence hunting & fishing was how people lived with the absolute minimum requirements for capital and labor.

In the old days, about 150 years ago, some people would head for what was then known as a "poor man's county". This is where land was cheap, the climate relatively mild, and where you could coon hunt all winter and fish all summer. Popular areas were the Ozarks, West Virginia, Kentucky and parts of Tennessee and Mississippi.

I don't know if it's possible to live like that any more, but back in those days subsistence hunting & fishing was how people lived with the absolute minimum requirements for capital and labor.

of course....
The American Indian Wars

airstream bambi?

or Kifaru tipi and big dummy?

Note that doing what Rowan and I are doing is not cheap. Good generators are expensive. Good batteries are expensive. Good solar systems are expensive. And even the business of getting all the piping in for water etc. adds up.

Plus we've been doing insulating ... the walls are almost done, and we've got the materials for the ceiling to keep us from losing heat up there (bats of insulation, lumber, metres and metres of netting and calico cloth, etc.).

Rowan has purchased a good chainsaw (I was surprised how expensive those are!) to help us with the firewood, plus we've got several axes etc.

I think it would be difficult to do this in a town ... there would be water issues, I think. So you'd need to pick a place in the country.

If you're thinking of doing this, and being car free at the same time, you'll need to pick a place in the country that you can conveniently access with your bicycle, and not just your bicycle, but your bicycle pulling a trailer because you'll need to haul all these materials in to your place ... and things like those batteries weigh in at about 90 lbs each (we're using three of them).

Which also brings up the point of where you're thinking of sourcing things. If you've picked a nice place in the country, and have given up your car, and the batteries are only available from the town 50 or 70 miles away, that's quite a ride for them. That's a part of our situation. We got the batteries from one place (off ebay) quite some distance away. We've picked up the lumber and calico from another place about 70 km (40-ish miles) away because that's the closest place to us for that sort of thing. The 12 volt bulbs for our lighting system also came from the same place. We checked the local "large" (~2000 people) town, but they didn't have what we needed. We are getting our new generator from a local place, about 8 km (5 miles) away, so that's good.

And you've got to look at banking (you'll probably want to go mainly online banking), and the medical situation (we've signed up with the ambulance service ... I'm not sure how that works, but we get a reduced rate if we have to be picked up by ambulance way out here).

And jobs! We're fortunate because we're living on the land where Rowan works so his job is just over the hill. But when I am allowed to work, I could possibly end up with a job in any of the towns in a 40 km (25 mile) radius. If I happen to get a job at a closer town, I could probably cycle, but if I get a job over the Black Spur 40 km away in Healsville there's no way I'm cycling that.

These are just some of the things to consider while you're dreaming. :)

. Solar power, likewise, is expected to drop in price.

I have been hearing for 30 years that solar power was going to drop in price. I am still waiting. My guess is it is not going to drop in price. Everything else may go up, but I think solar will stay fairly expensive.

Google "Earth Ships" ..... there's a community of them just South of Taos New Mexico.....really quite doable.

Which also brings up the point of where you're thinking of sourcing things. If you've picked a nice place in the country, and have given up your car, and the batteries are only available from the town 50 or 70 miles away, that's quite a ride for them. That's a part of our situation. We got the batteries from one place (off ebay) quite some distance away. We've picked up the lumber and calico from another place about 70 km (40-ish miles) away because that's the closest place to us for that sort of thing. The 12 volt bulbs for our lighting system also came from the same place. We checked the local "large" (~2000 people) town, but they didn't have what we needed. We are getting our new generator from a local place, about 8 km (5 miles) away, so that's good.

But I'm in America! Here I can get my individually wrapped lightbulb shipped to an outhouse in montana if I want to, and it will only cost me 6 bucks.

off the grid would mean no internet?

Library (like me) or coffee shop with laptop and wifi.

Lately I've been fantasizing day and night about the possibility of living off the grid completely. I'm thinking solar power/heating, well water with grey-water recycling and treatment, subsistence farming, and geothermal heating/cooling systems. I've already planned for a while to make sure my first car (that just died) would be the last I owned. I'm thinking a little beyond that.

Help me indulge in this fantasy a little longer. Has anyone here managed to go off the grid completely? Where did you start out? How long did it take you to cut yourself off from the grid?

Hi monsieuroctagon,

Just wanted to let you know I'm on the exact same wavelength as you (Dreaming night & day about living a new way! Old way I guess, or at least simpler :roflmao2:), sending you positive vibes! Cheers,

Don't forget about these guys:

http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

But I'm in America! Here I can get my individually wrapped lightbulb shipped to an outhouse in montana if I want to, and it will only cost me 6 bucks.

OK, that's one lightbulb ... how many of them are you planning to use? Like I said, these things add up. Plus, is that the "right" lightbulb. We could get lightbulbs all over the place, provided we wanted 240 Volt bulbs. But if we wanted bulbs compatable with a solar system, which is 12 Volt here .... different story all together.

There was supposed to be some government incentive for solar systems, and we figured all sorts of places would be stocking stuff for solar systems, and that the prices would be dropping ..... but nope. The government incentive has just fallen through, and even the large "Home Depot" type places looked at us blankly when we asked about 12 Volt stuff.

Hey, love the pictures of your place way out in the bush. Man I'd like to live like that. I think what you've done is great.

I've been "off-the-grid" since 1997 and living on 300 watts of solar power and four L-16 6 volt batteries. Running on solar as I type this.

You can get a lot of 12 volt stuff at Camper/RV places and catalogs. I still get my 12v quartz halogen bulbs at Home Depot. I'm running a 12V propane furnace and 12V propane 10 gal RV water heater with a 12V RV pump keeping my hot and cold running water system pressurized full time...you wouldn't know the place from a regular house.

Best buy of all was the 40 quart ARB 12V refrigerator from Australia. I found it at a Jeep place although it's kind of expensive at $700 (years ago) but it's still running in full time use and only uses 2.8 amps while in operation to hold temp just above freezing.

I'd want to have about a 1KW wind generator in conjunction with my solar. Nice power on cold windy nights when you have to run the furnace a lot.

Hey, love the pictures of your place way out in the bush. Man I'd like to live like that. I think what you've done is great.

I've been "off-the-grid" since 1997 and living on 300 watts of solar power and four L-16 6 volt batteries. Running on solar as I type this.

You can get a lot of 12 volt stuff at Camper/RV places and catalogs. I still get my 12v quartz halogen bulbs at Home Depot. I'm running a 12V propane furnace and 12V propane 10 gal RV water heater with a 12V RV pump keeping my hot and cold running water system pressurized full time...you wouldn't know the place from a regular house.

Best buy of all was the 40 quart ARB 12V refrigerator from Australia. I found it at a Jeep place although it's kind of expensive at $700 (years ago) but it's still running in full time use and only uses 2.8 amps while in operation to hold temp just above freezing.

I'd want to have about a 1KW wind generator in conjunction with my solar. Nice power on cold windy nights when you have to run the furnace a lot.


Well, it wasn't really our choice ... the bushfire made the choice for us. The OP asked how long it took for us to go off the grid completely, and I'd have to say it was a couple hours while the fire burnt everything down. Fortunately it stopped just short of the cabin we're in now, or we might have had to convert some old stables into living quarters.

Nevertheless, we have been toying with the idea for some time anyway. :)

I've had this image in my head since I can remember ... I've been drawing it in margins of class notes, on the backs of envelopes, and everywhere since I was a kid ... and now I'm there! :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/3081274833_1767129849.jpg?v=0

We're running a 12V/4 Amp car cooler at the moment - an 18-litre Buddy right now for keeping things cool, but we'd like to go with an Engel or Waeco car fridge eventually. We got this Buddy cooler for free at one of the evacuation centres after the fire. It was there because it didn't have a cord, so Rowan took it and rigged up a cord for it, and it works just fine.

We still need to get proper solar panels. We've got some, but they are quite limited, so we're mainly running a generator 1KW gas (petrol) generator. However, we'll get there with the solar panels.

And right now ... we're about to insulate the ceiling. Or at least get started on that. :)

OK, that's one lightbulb ... how many of them are you planning to use? Like I said, these things add up. Plus, is that the "right" lightbulb. We could get lightbulbs all over the place, provided we wanted 240 Volt bulbs. But if we wanted bulbs compatable with a solar system, which is 12 Volt here .... different story all together.

There was supposed to be some government incentive for solar systems, and we figured all sorts of places would be stocking stuff for solar systems, and that the prices would be dropping ..... but nope. The government incentive has just fallen through, and even the large "Home Depot" type places looked at us blankly when we asked about 12 Volt stuff.

Need to hit up the boat and rv specialty shops...www is your friend:lol: They make nice 12volt fluorescent lights (http://www.thinlite.com/products.htm) that will really help with power management. I use them in my RV's and have been toying with a low voltage home system. The car type light bulbs are power hogs and don't provide the lumens for the amp draw that a fluorescent or LED will. For hotwater look at a Zodi Heater (http://www.zodi.com/web-content/).

Aaron:)

Need to hit up the boat and rv specialty shops...www is your friend:lol: They make nice 12volt fluorescent lights (http://www.thinlite.com/products.htm) that will really help with power management. I use them in my RV's and have been toying with a low voltage home system. The car type light bulbs are power hogs and don't provide the lumens for the amp draw that a fluorescent or LED will. For hotwater look at a Zodi Heater (http://www.zodi.com/web-content/).

Aaron:)

Yeah, we've got 5 12volt fluorescent lights ... 3 are in use right now, and 2 are just sitting here waiting to be installed. They were actually here already when we got here, which is partly what motivated us to go the 12volt route.

We do have a hot water heater, but it needs a bit of work to get it working consistently. When it does work, it works really well.

Hey, love the pictures of your place way out in the bush. Man I'd like to live like that. I think what you've done is great.

I've been "off-the-grid" since 1997 and living on 300 watts of solar power and four L-16 6 volt batteries. Running on solar as I type this.

You can get a lot of 12 volt stuff at Camper/RV places and catalogs. I still get my 12v quartz halogen bulbs at Home Depot. I'm running a 12V propane furnace and 12V propane 10 gal RV water heater with a 12V RV pump keeping my hot and cold running water system pressurized full time...you wouldn't know the place from a regular house.

Best buy of all was the 40 quart ARB 12V refrigerator from Australia. I found it at a Jeep place although it's kind of expensive at $700 (years ago) but it's still running in full time use and only uses 2.8 amps while in operation to hold temp just above freezing.

I'd want to have about a 1KW wind generator in conjunction with my solar. Nice power on cold windy nights when you have to run the furnace a lot.

Wow, that's impressive. How close to main roads are you? Do you own a car? I think that eventually I will need to get another car just for utility, like a pickup truck or hatchback.

Machka, I think your problems seem more connected to a sparser supply chain in Australia and a narrower diversity of goods. I'm betting that in Australia people aren't as crazy about RVing as Americans are, causing a much smaller demand and availability of electronics that run on 12V power.

I read an article in popular science once about making a system of underground pipes which would channel stuff into your house so you could buy things and they would be sent to your house in a capsule like at the bank. Maybe I could get that. it'd let me have a much faster supply of fabulous consumer goods like nail clippers, robotic dogs, PowerSquids, etc...

airstream bambi?

I like the bigger ones better:thumb:

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/41845/2074934940066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

Machka, I think your problems seem more connected to a sparser supply chain in Australia and a narrower diversity of goods. I'm betting that in Australia people aren't as crazy about RVing as Americans are, causing a much smaller demand and availability of electronics that run on 12V power.



The Australians love RVing (Caravaning) too ... it's just this particular location. We're remote. If we could travel the 110 km into Melbourne, we'd likely have no difficulty finding stuff ... but how often do we want to make that trip?

Which brings me to this ...

One of your first steps would be to find a location in which to carry out your dream. If you're going car free, you don't want to be too remote. But if you are thinking of living off the stuff you grow and raising animal, you'll need a lot of land for that so you will need to be somewhat remote. You won't be able to living in the city for sure, and you won't likely be able to live in a town although you might be able to live at the edge of a small town.

Also if you want to grow stuff and raise animals, you'll need a water source like a pond or stream on the property.

Do you have a location in mind? Have you looked around at possible places?

Next you'd want to consider your accommodations. You could go the RV route ... that's an option we're looking at after we leave here. But if you want a permanent house on your property you can either build it yourself, and there are lots of eco-housing sites to check out for ideas for that ... or you can modify an existing house.

If you're looking for several acres of land, with water, near a town ... with a house on it. My suggestion would be to look for something with a small, well-built, well-insulated house. Small houses are easier to heat.


If we had not been thrown into our situation where we have to make do with what we've got, the suggestions above are where I would start on your dream.


A couple other questions ...

1) Have you camped a lot? I would recommend doing a lot of camping (and cycletouring would be a great way to go) this summer and see how you like the remoteness of camping, and the "roughing it" aspects of camping.

2) Have you got a lot of experience raising animals and dealing with all the issues that can come up with animals? If not, you might want to combine your camping experiences with visiting farms/ranches that have animals, etc. and having a good chat with the farmers/ranchers.

I've added 10 more photos to my set ... mainly showing the insulation project.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14302884@N04/sets/72157619719051119/

This was taken at the end of Day 2 of our ceiling insulation project. We've done 2 of the 6 sections of the ceiling ... just getting the insulation up. We're going to put up calico material to cover the insulation so it doesn't just sit up there.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3645952715_365b3158bc.jpg?v=0


This is a photo of our wash machine and the bucket of rinse water. The water in the large green bucket is half the water used in one wash by an average wash machine like ours ... it is just the rinse water. We siphon it off, and then use it for the washing part of the next load.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3645950405_52af3b24f9.jpg?v=0


And this is a photo of the firewood we collected yesterday. There are heaps of dead trees around so we're basically just collecting it and cutting it up. That quantity might last us the week if the weather is fairly warm. We didn't have to light a fire till evening today. But if it gets cold, it might only last a few days. Scary but true.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/3645950777_f239cf375f.jpg?v=0

Considered a manual washing machine (http://www.lehmans.com/store/Home_Goods___Laundry___Washing___Lehman_s__Hand_Washer___32823315?Args=)?:D;)

BTW looking good on the insulation, that will make a huge difference.

Aaron:)

Machka, have you considered passive thermal solar for your hot water needs?

Something like this?

http://www.epsea.org/wtr.html

How about geothermal heating and cooling?

This is a photo of our wash machine and the bucket of rinse water. The water in the large green bucket is half the water used in one wash by an average wash machine like ours ... it is just the rinse water. We siphon it off, and then use it for the washing part of the next load.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3645950405_52af3b24f9.jpg?v=0


Too bad you don't have an old style wringer washer. These used no electricity, but still saved a lot of labor.


http://blogs.families.com/media/133380495-M.jpg

There were also electric wringer machines. We had one when I was a kid. I know you reused the wash water or rinse water somehow, but I can't remember exactly how this worked.


http://mp.natlib.govt.nz/image/?imageId=images-27915&profile=access

Hey Roody....

http://image.lehmans.com/lehmans/Images/products/large/32823325.jpg

and I am not as old as you...yet.:roflmao2: BTW my grandmother had one of those round ones, had two as a matter of fact, the original one had a Briggs and Stratton motor on it to drive the agitator, somewhere around the 1960's they got dependable power and she "upgraded" to the electrical version:D

Aaron:)

When Rowan first told me he bought a wash machine, I envisioned the round style wringer washer which my great-grandmother had. I'm actually relieved that this isn't a wringer washer. :D

The thing is ... I had NO idea how much water wash machines used. I've always just loaded my stuff into them, hit the buttons, and walked away. I was floored when I saw that bucket full of water, and even more floored when Rowan told me that was only half the water used with each wash. You can get wash machines that are more efficient with the water .... and now I'd recommend them. And we're making ours more efficient by reusing the water.

In fact, we're considering ways to reuse a lot of our water.

The government incentive has just fallen through, and even the large "Home Depot" type places looked at us blankly when we asked about 12 Volt stuff.

If you don't mind the fairly small loss of efficiency, you can get an inverter that converts 12V DC (solar or battery) to 120V AC for appliances. That's what everybody with solar panels in Haiti seems to do, rather than look for 12V lightbulbs, 12V televisions, 12V laptops (from what I've seen, laptops pretty universally are made to be used with converters that give 19V DC power from AC wall outlets.)

If you don't mind the fairly small loss of efficiency, you can get an inverter that converts 12V DC (solar or battery) to 120V AC for appliances. That's what everybody with solar panels in Haiti seems to do, rather than look for 12V lightbulbs, 12V televisions, 12V laptops (from what I've seen, laptops pretty universally are made to be used with converters that give 19V DC power from AC wall outlets.)

I believe we have an inverter because yesterday I was operating this computer off battery power charged by our solar panel. BTW - we're 240V over here, and I believe there are two difficulties with using 240V for everything ... one is that the government doesn't like people to be messing with electrical things themselves at that voltage. They'd prefer we hire professionals. They other is that it uses up more ... I'm going to say "power" for lack of a better term (I haven't studied electricity too much) ... than a 12V system. Right now it takes a day of sunshine to charge the battery, and a day of computer usage to drain it. Whereas we get a lot of days of 12V light usage off the battery.

We won't be going completely over to 12V, but the more the better.

Most of the smaller netbook type laptops are 12 volt so they don't need to be stepped up. Losses on inverters add up pretty quickly. IMHO a pure 12v system is the best way to go. You can also add windpower to the mix if you choose, it has the advantage of being available at night. Amount generated depends on the area, running water like a decent sized creek can generate power too.

Aaron:)

Most of the smaller netbook type laptops are 12 volt so they don't need to be stepped up. Losses on inverters add up pretty quickly. IMHO a pure 12v system is the best way to go. You can also add windpower to the mix if you choose, it has the advantage of being available at night. Amount generated depends on the area, running water like a decent sized creek can generate power too.

Aaron:)

If we were going to go with wind power, we'd have to put something on top of the hill beside our place, I think. We're in a nice little valley surrounded on three sides by hills and bordered by trees in front. I can see the leaves moving out there right now, but only a very little bit.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/3646756784_4df96d6c76.jpg?v=0

machka, it sounds like you need to get as acquainted as possible with grey water recycling... http://www.greywater.com/

How close to main roads are you? Do you own a car? I think that eventually I will need to get another car just for utility, like a pickup truck or hatchback.

I'm right on paved main roads with a laundromat and grocery about a 1/2 mile down the road so my bike and trailer life is no big hardship.

I do have a car, van, motorcycle, snowmobile, and boat, but refuse to register any of them for political reasons...so I'm probably going to off them all.

I do have a car, van, motorcycle, snowmobile, and boat, but refuse to register any of them for political reasons...so I'm probably going to off them all.

Good idea. If you got caught operating them, you might end up as a political prisoner.

When Rowan first told me he bought a wash machine, I envisioned the round style wringer washer which my great-grandmother had. I'm actually relieved that this isn't a wringer washer. :D

The thing is ... I had NO idea how much water wash machines used. I've always just loaded my stuff into them, hit the buttons, and walked away. I was floored when I saw that bucket full of water, and even more floored when Rowan told me that was only half the water used with each wash.

Huh, different backgrounds I guess. To me a wringer washer would be *just* the ticket, particularly if I could pair it with one of the low power spin-cycle only devices. Why? Because when you're washing woolens, any kind of modern clothes washer is a serious crapshoot. So either I risk my precious woolies in a modern washer, I handwash (16 gallons for the sweaters, another 16 gallons for the two wool blankets), or I pay a dry cleaner to do it. A wringer washer is a lot less work than doing it in the bathtub.

And yeah, top-loading washing machines take a lot of water. Doing it by hand in a bathtub is *more* water efficient, because I can load a bathtub with a lot more cloth and let diffusion do most of the work. You can't agitate wet wool, even gentle squeezing or stirring can cause felting (handspun is harder to felt because I put in a lot of twist, but most of our things are commercially spun yarn... it takes a lot of time for me to get yarn spun and knit up!), so the more stuffed the tub is the less you'll be tempted to muck with it. Doing it by hand is a ferocious amount of work, and after helping with a load, my partner is about ready to *beg* me to take things to a dry cleaner.

(the other advantage of a wringer washer is it lets you process raw wool fairly easily... the lanolin contained in wool is a wonderful way to clog pipes and ruin septic systems, so anything that lets you manage your greywater from washing raw wool is a real boon)

The spin-cycle only machines are sold in the US as "swimsuit dryers". I'm not sure how they're sold in Aus. Another alternative is sometimes top-load washing machines can be cannibalized to be powered off of a bicycle... it works for "spin-drying" lettuces, so it might work for clothing. The diffusion trick works on any fabric, so at that point the main advantage of the washer is the spin cycle to speed drying... and oh does it speed drying! That might get the water contained in a load down low enough that the washer could drain directly into a smaller tub or bucket.

Good idea. If you got caught operating them, you might end up as a political prisoner.

In a way, we all already are political prisoners.

Huh, different backgrounds I guess. To me a wringer washer would be *just* the ticket, particularly if I could pair it with one of the low power spin-cycle only devices. Why? Because when you're washing woolens, any kind of modern clothes washer is a serious crapshoot. So either I risk my precious woolies in a modern washer, I handwash (16 gallons for the sweaters, another 16 gallons for the two wool blankets), or I pay a dry cleaner to do it. A wringer washer is a lot less work than doing it in the bathtub.

And yeah, top-loading washing machines take a lot of water. Doing it by hand in a bathtub is *more* water efficient, because I can load a bathtub with a lot more cloth and let diffusion do most of the work. You can't agitate wet wool, even gentle squeezing or stirring can cause felting (handspun is harder to felt because I put in a lot of twist, but most of our things are commercially spun yarn... it takes a lot of time for me to get yarn spun and knit up!), so the more stuffed the tub is the less you'll be tempted to muck with it. Doing it by hand is a ferocious amount of work, and after helping with a load, my partner is about ready to *beg* me to take things to a dry cleaner.

(the other advantage of a wringer washer is it lets you process raw wool fairly easily... the lanolin contained in wool is a wonderful way to clog pipes and ruin septic systems, so anything that lets you manage your greywater from washing raw wool is a real boon)

The spin-cycle only machines are sold in the US as "swimsuit dryers". I'm not sure how they're sold in Aus. Another alternative is sometimes top-load washing machines can be cannibalized to be powered off of a bicycle... it works for "spin-drying" lettuces, so it might work for clothing. The diffusion trick works on any fabric, so at that point the main advantage of the washer is the spin cycle to speed drying... and oh does it speed drying! That might get the water contained in a load down low enough that the washer could drain directly into a smaller tub or bucket.


Most of my wool is $5 thrift store acquisitions, so if it all falls apart or something, oh well, I'll go get another one. A wringer washer, if we could find such a thing these days, would probably be fine now, while I'm not working ... but once I start working the last thing I want to do is to come home and spend an entire evening or two wringing clothes.

We do drain the rinse water and reuse it, so that saves us some water.

And as for drying, I've got two loads drying in front of the fireplace right now. We bought a large $20 drying rack which seems to work quite well.


We're progressing on the cabin. We've got heavy curtains (which I made) up at the windows, and they seem to be keeping some of the cold at night out ... or warmth in.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3415/3652149857_9674d38d23.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2447/3655988084_ee28b94230.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14302884@N04/sets/72157619719051119/

And Rowan has installed the lighting now which makes it brighter in here in the evenings ... it's all 12 volt lighting.

We've got our own generator, and are holding off on solar panals for a little while ... partly because there isn't much point to them just now as we seem to have moved into monsoon season. :D

In Duluth, Minnesota, there is (so I have heard; I haven't personally seen it) a house that is heated by a solar collector on the roof that heats some sort of anti-freeze that circulates within it. The liquid circulates through tubing into a two-foot bed of sand on which the house is built. The sand is the "heat exchanger" and captures the heat, and it radiates up through the floor to heat the house.

Perhaps off topic a bit, I think it would be fun to go "off the grid" in the city. One might have to build one's own house from the ground up, but it seems like all those off-grid things--solar heating, solar water heating, solar panel electricity, garden and/or greenhouse--could be done in a city, and one would be a reasonable distance from a major metropolitan medical center as well.

Machka I am sorry about all the fire and damage but what you are doing with the cabin is amazing! I wish I could buy some land and live off the gird.
I am in the process of saving money for solar and reuse a lot of my water for toilet or whatever. My husband first scoffed at the idea of not keeping appliances plugged in and reusing bath water for things like the toilet, but when he saw our electricity bill was under $100 and our water bill, with garden, lawn, etc was under $18 per month, he signed right up. :)

In Duluth, Minnesota, there is (so I have heard; I haven't personally seen it) a house that is heated by a solar collector on the roof that heats some sort of anti-freeze that circulates within it. The liquid circulates through tubing into a two-foot bed of sand on which the house is built. The sand is the "heat exchanger" and captures the heat, and it radiates up through the floor to heat the house.

Perhaps off topic a bit, I think it would be fun to go "off the grid" in the city. One might have to build one's own house from the ground up, but it seems like all those off-grid things--solar heating, solar water heating, solar panel electricity, garden and/or greenhouse--could be done in a city, and one would be a reasonable distance from a major metropolitan medical center as well.

I have built a couple of houses like that and they worked great. One was in the VA mountains the other in the coastal plains of NC. Off grid "might" work in the city if everything was oriented properly and you weren't in an HOA controlled area. FWIW my dad put solar panels on our house for water heating back in the early 70's, they were so effective we go notices from the gas company that it was against the law to screw with their meter.:D

Aaron:)

Most of my wool is $5 thrift store acquisitions, so if it all falls apart or something, oh well, I'll go get another one.

Same here :). But spinning and knitting are some of my hobbies, so if I can make things hold together I'll have time to replace the cheap machine knits with good handspun. A 50 year sweater is definitely worth the trouble to me compared to one that maybe lasts 3 years.


We've got our own generator, and are holding off on solar panals for a little while ... partly because there isn't much point to them just now as we seem to have moved into monsoon season. :D

YAY! Hopefully the rains will be slow soaking ones.

I was off grid for a few years up north of here along the Susitna River (Alaska). The summers were incredibly fun and easy. Tons of daylight, great fishing, boiled laundry, outdoor baths and an open air kitchen. Winter was another matter. Temps dropped to -40 f. and below, the snow and ice remained 7 months of the year, and just getting around was difficult. We got caught off guard with the first winter and still had troubles after that. Heating fuel was very expensive. EVERYTHING broke in those conditions. Winter in Alaska simply destroys everything. Every tool, every heater, every piece of modern technology. Laptops froze solid, LED displays in the cars went nuts, the cars themselves wouldn't start, and everything took longer. Kerosene still functioned, but it also poisons you slowly. Propane worked less and less well as the temps dropped.

I'd like to do it again, but only if I had $30 grand or more to get the cabin set up properly. And even then I'd probably do like a lot of folks and make it seasonal only.

I was off grid for a few years up north of here along the Susitna River (Alaska). The summers were incredibly fun and easy. Tons of daylight, great fishing, boiled laundry, outdoor baths and an open air kitchen. Winter was another matter. Temps dropped to -40 f. and below, the snow and ice remained 7 months of the year, and just getting around was difficult. We got caught off guard with the first winter and still had troubles after that. Heating fuel was very expensive. EVERYTHING broke in those conditions. Winter in Alaska simply destroys everything. Every tool, every heater, every piece of modern technology. Laptops froze solid, LED displays in the cars went nuts, the cars themselves wouldn't start, and everything took longer. Kerosene still functioned, but it also poisons you slowly. Propane worked less and less well as the temps dropped.

I'd like to do it again, but only if I had $30 grand or more to get the cabin set up properly. And even then I'd probably do like a lot of folks and make it seasonal only.


Despite the fact that we're into winter now, fortunately winters here don't get that bad. We're going down to just below freezing at nights now. But yes, that's something to consider if you live in a cold area. Even living at -40C/F with all the houses and offices set up to withstand that kind of cold can be uncomfortable and difficult.

We're almost finished insulating our ceiling now, and I think it makes a difference.

Despite the fact that we're into winter now, fortunately winters here don't get that bad. We're going down to just below freezing at nights now. But yes, that's something to consider if you live in a cold area. Even living at -40C/F with all the houses and offices set up to withstand that kind of cold can be uncomfortable and difficult.

We're almost finished insulating our ceiling now, and I think it makes a difference.

Absolutely! Basic thermal dynamics heat rises:p That is one reason why the heated floors work as well as they do, you have the contact warmth for your feet and then the heat rises past you.

Aaron:)

Absolutely! Basic thermal dynamics heat rises:p That is one reason why the heated floors work as well as they do, you have the contact warmth for your feet and then the heat rises past you.

Aaron:)

Yeah ... the floors are a bit of an issue. We won't be able to do anything with them in time for this winter, but if we stay here, and are here next winter, we've got some ideas.

The floors in this cabin are simply cement sidewalk pavers on dirt ... just like how you'd lay down a sidewalk. I'm guessing there might be weedmat or something underneath because we don't seem to have any plant life growing up between the pavers.

But this means the floor is COLD. And we also discovered, toward the end of a week of rain last week, that eventually the ground gets wet enough and the water comes up between the pavers. Rowan was out digging trenches late one night to divert the water. We put down mats beside the bed and that made a noticable difference over there ... at least we're not stepping out of bed in the morning onto a floor that's around the freezing point!!

Machka,
I don't know what is available where you are but the extruded styrofoam insulation boar (http://building.dow.com/ap/en/apl/floors.htm)d is the way to go for your floor insulation. For your application just about any version of it would work. Also if you don't have it, consider a vapor barrier like a 6 mil plastic under your pavers too. I did a house years ago where the floor in the main living area was brick pavers set in a sand bed. We put down gravel for drainage, landscape cloth, then the poly, 6" of sand with polybutylene tubing for the solar/wood fired hot water heat system set in it, then the brick pavers. Worked great...gave the building inspector fits though:innocent:

Aaron:)