Road Cycling - triple crakset, DuraAce or Chorus/Record

Hi!
I have to make the decision: DuraAce or Chorus.
For me the decisive point is which one performes better with triple crankset. Last season I was driving Campy triple Veloce , but I was disappointed. It was always very difficult to shift properly to find the middle chainwheel. I found it very rarely with first shift. I always had to make trimming (which with Campy IS possible) to avoid sliding the chain towards front derailers arm. What was also very annoying is that I had to make the trimming of front derailer position also when the gear on the rear sprockets was changed.
It was not a problem to shift on small or big (front)chainring but definetly to middle one. I do not remember such problems when driving MTB with Shimano LX Deore gears. It is known, that Shimano has "digital" shifting while Campy has more "analog". I do not find a problem with Campy with double, but triple simply does not work fine. I however did not try any roadbike Shimano triple. Does somebody have some experience with triple DuraAce or Ultegra ?
Best regards, Matjaz

You can only make triples that index with a single click, if the chainrings are far apart. If you want a narrow chainset (and you should do), then a system with trimming is better. It just takes some practice and finesse in the use of the changer. Maybe using MTB indexing has "de-skilled" you.
Just for fun, why not revert to downtube friction shifters.

The biggest difference between Shim and Campy is the in Bolt Circle Diameter, Shimanos is smaller, so can take a smaller middle ring.

A quality alternative to Shimano or Campy is the Specialities TA Allize road triple.

Trimming may not be exactly the same with Shimano as Campy, but it seems adequate. DA STI for double has 3 clicks, which has always been adequate to achieve trim. The shift is usually clean, requiring trimming only toward the extremes such as large chainring/third largest cog. I believe the triple STI has 4 clicks to allow for trim. I am VERY happy with my DA double setup. Shifts are clean and crisp. I am going to set another bike up with the triple, which I just asked my LBS to order Friday. I'm not even using a DA crankset on my double. It is a 105 crankset off of a 12 speed and shifting is just fine. I have also used it with a Sugino crankset that is probably not "9-speed" and it also works fine. The DA did not work with the older 105 front der. The der just didn't have enough movement per click.
FWIW,
Raymond

Thans to all for your answers given so far.
I was yesterday in Italy asking some bike-dealers for their triple experience. They all of them (Italians!) did NOT recommend Campy triple. They all think that DuraAce probably works better, but nobody had a chance to ride with it, so they are not sure.
So I am still waiting for somebody that can confirm that DuraAce works fine and that the trimming is not needed in mosts of the shifts to middle ring.
BTW, I am buying a complete new bike, so everything will be Dura/Ace or Campy. I am thinking about TREK5500, Pinarelo Opera (or even Prince), Principia Rex/Rsl, Fondriest Toplevel...
But first I have to decide: triple-double and DuraAce-Chorus/Record.
Rgds, Matjaz

There have been a lot of complaints with the D-A bottom bracket. You might consider substituting it with an Ultegra.

I've been very happy with my Ultegra triple. There's a whole lot of gears going on though. Be sure you need them all before you commit to them.

Being that the Durace triple is so new, I'd find a few people who have actually been running them or find a review or two to read.

Congrats in advance on the new purchase. Those are sweet bikes you're considering.

Welcome to Bike Forums and keep us posted on your new ride.

Thanks Greg for your mail. Good to hear that Ultegra works fine. Could you be more specific? Do you need to trim or you find middle front ring with first shift ? Do you need trimming when you change rear gears ?
Yes, I am browsing www to find some review on this specific question and did not find yet. I am trying to find someone using D/A triple everywhere (also some forums) and did not find it yet. I however maybe can asume that if Ultegra works fine probably they did not make a step backward with DuraAce.
And yes, if middle bracket fails it is good to know that can be replaced with Ultegra. Probably I will also replace the sprockets because I absolutely do not need 12T (D/A), but I really would like to have from 14 to 19T all cogs in 1 increment (only possible with Ultegra !?).
And I need at least 23T also. At the moment I have 42-32 combination for long steep climbs. I do not want to loose that.
For sure I will keep you posted. I can not sleep because of all doubts I have now!

rgds, matjaz

You might try www.roadbikerieview.com (http://www.roadbikereview.com)
and see if anyone has rated it.

Trimming is rarely required.

Finding the middle ring has never been an issue.

The middle ring has two positions to keep the chain off the front der. I assume the Durace will also.

Good luck!

I tried www.roadbikerieview.com already and found nothing ! I tried also a forum there. Thanks ! Matjaz

I just purchased a cross bike to complement my road bike. Choice of triple was Ultegra. I have had no rouble with the shifting on the road bike and so I went with the same on the cross. Smooth but precise shifting on both bikes with the Ultegra.

Matjaz,
My favorite 9-speed cassette is the Ultegra 14-25 which has
14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. At this point in my cycling development, I don't need anything smaller than a 14. A 13-23 cassette has 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 and is available in both HG-70 (105) and Ultegra.
Regards,
Raymond

Hi reymond,

14-25 combination is the best also for me. 13T I need only on some downhills and can easily live without it.

Matjaz

Here is a stupid related question.

I have a Cannondale R-600 double, I in about as good shape as a shut in well ok not that bad. Would I be able to upgrade to a triple, running 105 right now, if I did what would be the benefits / costs. what will fit my bike, oh and one more thing, would it be possible / worth it to hunt around for a r-600 triple crank?

Sorry I am a newbee, and so don't know my b*tt from a hole in the ground when it comes to bikes.

Originally posted by Baby Huey
Would I be able to upgrade to a triple, running 105 right now, if I did what would be the benefits / costs. what will fit my bike, oh and one more thing, would it be possible / worth it to hunt around for a r-600 triple crank?

Not a dumb question. Yeah, you can upgrade to a triple, but it's pricey. You probably need, at least, new cranks, bottom bracket, and front and rear derailleurs. Shimano sells double to triple upgrade kits, but I don't know if they've got one for 105's. In fact, Shimano is notorious for obsoleting support for products pretty quickly, so if it's a couple of years old, you may be on your own.

If you really want a triple, it may be cheaper, all things considered, to buy a new bike. :(

Originally posted by roadbuzz


If you really want a triple, it may be cheaper, all things considered, to buy a new bike. :(

Talk about an issue. Sounds like a big time PITA.

Though I don't understand why the rear derailleurs would have to go, frount I can understand.

Also, what is a bottom bracket?

Any other solution to riding big hills on a double bike? I think I have a 9 speed rear? (bigger legs, riding smaller hills are not options)

One thing (among many) that seems to mitigate for Campa is that when the shift/brake assembly fails, you can repair the Italian one. Could save a lot of money in the end.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by Baby Huey


Though I don't understand why the rear derailleurs would have to go, frount I can understand.

Also, what is a bottom bracket?

Any other solution to riding big hills on a double bike? I think I have a 9 speed rear? (bigger legs, riding smaller hills are not options)

Rear derailleurs pick up the slack chain between the biggest and smallest gear. If you increase the range of gears (which is different to the number of gears), you need to increase the amount of slack chain you take up. Triple derailleurs have longer cages and take up more slack chain.

The bottom bracket is the part of the frame containing the axle for the pedal cranks. These days the axle comes in a cartidge which screws into the bottom bracket. Axles come in different lengths, and position the chainset from the centre-line of the bike.
You need to have a good chainline, so when the chain is on the middle of the rear cogs, it is level with the middle chainring of a triple, or falls between the two rings of a double.

To ride big hills you need lower gears. Most doubles are set up to provide a good range of gears for professional athletes. They are way too high for average riders. You can do 2 things to give yourself more usable ratios.
1. Increase the range of the rear cog cluster
from 12-26 to eg a 13-32 (May need a longer cage rear derailleur)

2. Decrease the size of your front rings

Your double limits the smallest chainring to about 38 cogs (maybe 37) because of the diameter of the bolt holes (130mm)

I have used a double of 36/48 with a 13/28 in very steep hills. Cyclo cross bikes use a double, but would typically have lower gears like this.

Michael,

Thanks for the expl. Very helpful. I guess bigger legs / smaller gears or a new bike are my anwsers.

Anyone have a nice bike with short gears they want to give me. ;)

Originally posted by Baby Huey
Michael,

Thanks for the expl. Very helpful. I guess bigger legs / smaller gears or a new bike are my anwsers.
;)

NB, you should match the length of your cranks to the length of your legs. There is much debate as to what proportion of leg length, cranks shold be , but generally about 20% of inside leg.

There are many experts who think cranks should not be fitted to legs, and that 170mm is suitable for anyone under 5'10", but I dont see how.

Most of the crank size guides are very conservative, they recomend sizes that are not small enough at the small end, and not big enough at the big end, mainly because cranks are not available under 150mm or over 190mm. The big manufacturers limit their size range from 165 to 185.

If I still fallow this.
Larger crank = more leverage on the chain ring = less work for me?

I guess at 6’4” I should take a look at that length.

Originally posted by Baby Huey
If I still fallow this.
Larger crank = more leverage on the chain ring = less work for me?

I guess at 6’4” I should take a look at that length.

No no no.
Turning a bigger crank one revolution is more work than turning a smaller crank, because of the geater distance your foot moves. The crank turns this extra work into extra torque, which can drive bigger gears.

Its harder to turn bigger cranks at high revs, but then, its harder to turn bigger legs at high revs. The variable gearing of a bike ensures that the rider is always matching cadence and pedalling force.

So if i have a short crank then I will not have as high a top speed given the same gears as I would with a longer crank. Maybe this is why on the flats I can spin 100+ RPM in my big gear without getting killed.

Originally posted by Baby Huey
No if i have a short crank then I will not have as high a top speed given the same gears as I would with a longer crank. Maybe this is why on the flats I can spin 100+ RPM in my big gear without getting killed.

But you are not given the same gears. You should alter your gear range if you change your cranks. Crank length, like wheel size, is part of the total gearing equation.

Sorry I put an N not an S as the first letter in my last post.

Sorry about that. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Hi!
I have to make the decision: DuraAce or Chorus.
For me the decisive point is which one performes better with triple crankset. Last season I was driving Campy triple Veloce , but I was disappointed. It was always very difficult to shift properly to find the middle chainwheel. I found it very rarely with first shift. I always had to make trimming (which with Campy IS possible) to avoid sliding the chain towards front derailers arm. What was also very annoying is that I had to make the trimming of front derailer position also when the gear on the rear sprockets was changed.
It was not a problem to shift on small or big (front)chainring but definetly to middle one. I do not remember such problems when driving MTB with Shimano LX Deore gears. It is known, that Shimano has "digital" shifting while Campy has more "analog". I do not find a problem with Campy with double, but triple simply does not work fine. I however did not try any roadbike Shimano triple. Does somebody have some experience with triple DuraAce or Ultegra ?
Best regards, Matjaz
Go with XT, it's cheaper and more durable.

Probably I will also replace the sprockets because I absolutely do not need 12T (D/A), but I really would like to have from 14 to 19T all cogs in 1 increment (only possible with Ultegra !?).
And I need at least 23T also. At the moment I have 42-32 combination for long steep climbs. I do not want to loose that.
For sure I will keep you posted. I can not sleep because of all doubts I have now!

rgds, matjaz

It sound to me like you do not need a triple. Both Campy 39-29 (1.3448 ratio) and shimano 39-28 (1.3928 ratio) are close to your 42-32 (1.3125 ratio) and they could be had with a double.

I use the DA triple on the CX. The inner chairing is mounted on the middle one,
so I can easily convert it do double when (if) I want to need to Change the front derailleur
and BB too if it’s going to make any different on the chainline.
If you have an Ultegra (6510) or campa shifters and double crank, you can convert it to triple using this.
A 7700 arm needs some work but for most arms it's not a problem

http://www.cyclecomponents.com/images/artiklar/STR013.jpg
DuraAce does it same way on their triple(7703)
You still have to change BB and FD though.

The advantage using triple, is that you can go up to say 42T on the middle chainring and that way
eliminate much of the front shifting. A double 42/53 would be too heavy off road, but triple is just fine.