Advocacy & Safety - Pedestrian Problems

Commuted to work today. Like most days, drivers where well behaved. I live in Windsor, Ontario, the car capital of Canada, which is 1 mile across the Detroit River from Detroit Michigan, the car capital of the world. Given the car culture here, drivers are, for the most part, OK. I actually have more trouble with traffic when I drive my wife's car. Pedestrians on the other hand are a different story. Usually it's just people standing at the edge of the road, waiting to jaywalk or standing next to their car waiting to bolt across the street. A shout or my bell is usually enough to alert them to my presence. Today though I noticed a pedestrian, standing on the centre line, in the middle of the block waiting for car traffic to clear so he could finsh crossing the street. As the last of the cars cleared, he looked directly at me approaching ( I was travelling around 25km/h and he made eye contact with me) and then began to casually stroll in front of me. I shouted a warning and managed to stop about 2 feet from the a$$&*le. His only response, "pedestrians have the right of way, man." Anyone experience this kind of thing? Any advice?

I've never quite understood what "pedestrians have the right of way" means. Is it part of the law, or is it just something people say?

Of course it doesn't override the laws of physics, you can't just walk out into traffic and assume you will be safe. Does it only apply in crosswalks? What about controlled intersections?

i say take a pic of him jaywalking next time. then take it to a cop and get him fined.

I've never quite understood what "pedestrians have the right of way" means. Is it part of the law, or is it just something people say?

Of course it doesn't override the laws of physics, you can't just walk out into traffic and assume you will be safe. Does it only apply in crosswalks? What about controlled intersections?

I guess it would depend on what state/province you're in. For example in Alberta, where my wife is from, "pedestrians have the right of way", everywhere and at any time. A pedestrian just sticks their hand straight out in front of them and crosses the street. All vehicular traffic must yield. It's like watching Moses part the Red Sea. I've seen pedestrians do it across 4 lane roads with heavy traffic. A motorist who hits a pedestrian is dealt with severely. In Ontario, where I live, pedestrians have the right of way in crosswalks when crossing with the signals.

The pedestrian in question was crossing illegally, in the middle of the block. You're right of course about the laws of physics. He waited for the 1500 to 2500 lb vehicles at 40-50 km/h to clear (the cars) and then decided to walk in front of the 250 llb vehicle travelling at 25 km/h (my bike). I wonder what the force of impact would have been if I'd have hit him? Physics was never one of my strong subjects.

He waited for the 1500 to 2500 lb vehicles at 40-50 km/h to clear (the cars) and then decided to walk in front of the 250 llb vehicle travelling at 25 km/h (my bike). English-metric unit mix alert! Oh, you crazy Canadians. Pick a system and stick with it, eh? Or else this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/) might happen!

So how's life in the Sun Parlo(u)r? Old Detroit rat, here. The missuz and me used to throw the bikes in the Omni, park it at Mic-mac park and bike into Leamington/Harrow, just to get into some clean air w/o having to drive for an hour. We miss Channel 9. Sorry; waxing nostalgic.

..... His only response, "pedestrians have the right of way, man." Anyone experience this kind of thing? Any advice?

I don't go by the law so much as 'common sense'; still to me a pedestrian in a CROSSWALK has absolute right of way. Bicycle delivery boys may discover this any day.

Elsewhere, I think it has to be ad-hoc. You aren't a very intelligent pedestrian if you walk in front of a stopping car on a mutlilane road only to get clocked by the guy in the next lane who, easily, can argue you were obstructucted by your stopped vehicle. And as some folks point out, this is jaywalking; the law against it is for your own protection.

roughstuff

English-metric unit mix alert! Oh, you crazy Canadians. Pick a system and stick with it, eh? Or else this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/) might happen!

So how's life in the Sun Parlo(u)r? Old Detroit rat, here. The missuz and me used to throw the bikes in the Omni, park it at Mic-mac park and bike into Leamington/Harrow, just to get into some clean air w/o having to drive for an hour. We miss Channel 9. Sorry; waxing nostalgic.

I know, the unit of measure mix ...... The metric system came into being as I was leaving grade school. I'd been indoctrinated with the English system of measure. The only metric measure I consistently use is for vehicular speed. I guess it's daily experience with it. Tell me the temperature in celsius, height in cm or weight in kg, I don't know whether to wear a jacket, if my daughter is tall enough for the ride or I need to go on a diet. As far as things in the Sun Parlor, it's been rainy here for two months. We almost set a new precipitation record for May.

I don't go by the law so much as 'common sense'; still to me a pedestrian in a CROSSWALK has absolute right of way. Bicycle delivery boys may discover this any day.

roughstuff

I agree.



Elsewhere, I think it has to be ad-hoc. You aren't a very intelligent pedestrian if you walk in front of a stopping car on a mutlilane road only to get clocked by the guy in the next lane who, easily, can argue you were obstructucted by your stopped vehicle. And as some folks point out, this is jaywalking; the law against it is for your own protection.

roughstuff

This was definitely not an intelligent pedestrian. My opinion, given his attitude, he saw me approaching and thought "F^#% this guy on the bike..... he can get the h@!! out of MY way"!

His only response, "pedestrians have the right of way, man." Anyone experience this kind of thing? Any advice?

This happens all the time here in Nashville. Because downtown is always loaded with tourists, they do it constantly and don't seem to care. It was so bad last weekend with fan fair, cops were at every corner to stop them from crossing and allow cars to go.

One got hurt pretty bad. He or she stepped right out in front of a car while the car had the green light. I am like, I am sorry the person got hit, but they asked for it stepping out in front of a car while it say do not walk.

I once had an idiot pedestrian yell at me for not yielding to him. He was in a crosswalk, but my light was green, and his light said, "DON'T WALK."

Sometimes, I'll try to scare a jaywalking pedestrian by cutting by them close. But getting too close can be more dangerous to me than to the pedestrian (remember Lance Armstrong's tumble last Tour de France).

But in the end, there's not much you can do. You can't run into them. That's a crime.

You can't run into them. That's a crime.

More importantly, it hurts !

We have one of the few remaining "no-car" streets in the US. But, to the confusion of many, it's not a pedestrian mall. It's a bus route, and bikes are allowed on it. Cabs and delivery vehicles can use it, but they can only enter/leave on the block where they need it. Sidewalks on both sides are very wide. Still, people occasionally just wander down the street. People very routinely wander across this street, mid-block, without looking either way. The figure if they don't hear a bus coming, it's safe. 'Course, they don't hear me coming at 15 MPH (that's the speed limit) on my road bike.

We have one of the few remaining "no-car" streets in the US. But, to the confusion of many, it's not a pedestrian mall. It's a bus route, and bikes are allowed on it. Cabs and delivery vehicles can use it, but they can only enter/leave on the block where they need it. Sidewalks on both sides are very wide. Still, people occasionally just wander down the street. People very routinely wander across this street, mid-block, without looking either way. The figure if they don't hear a bus coming, it's safe. 'Course, they don't hear me coming at 15 MPH (that's the speed limit) on my road bike. z

I was asking about studded tires for winter in another forum and running them on bare roads when the snow melts on those warmer winter days. Someone suggested Nokian studded tires. Comments about how noisy they are on bare pavement. Maybe I should run the studded tires all year round. ;) Sounds like a great pedestrian early warning system. If they still insist on jumping in front of me it would leave interesting marks all over their stupid carcasses........ Not that I'd advocate running down pedestrians. :D

I deal with this pedestrian thing quite often, although around here they tend to be just stupid more than abusive (apart from the punch-throwing yobbos, but that's another rant). To be honest, though, I don't really see it as a big problem. If the roadway is clear enough of cars for him to begin crossing, it's probably clear enough for you to take evasive action to avoid him.

Yes, I realise the guy is an @$$hole, but to be honest I'd prefer to let that remain his problem rather than allow it to ruin my day. If he keeps up with his attitude, Darwinism will catch up with him eventually.

People don't understand right of way.

Through traffic has right of way over merging traffic, doesn't mean that if I'm through traffic and spot someone trying to merge ahead I can floor it and wale into him.

PA tries to deal with this by saying that while certain people have to yield the right of way, no one can take the right of way.

This yahoo who stepped in front of you was clearly trying to take the right of way.

If the roadway is clear enough of cars for him to begin crossing, it's probably clear enough for you to take evasive action to avoid him.

Unfortunately, around here they tend to step out into the street well before it's clear enough to begin crossing. So far, though, a shout is all it's taken to move them...

-chris

Unfortunately, around here they tend to step out into the street well before it's clear enough to begin crossing. So far, though, a shout is all it's taken to move them...


I've seen them do that here, too. Which is another reason I favour claiming the lane when in doubt. However, I don't stress about it, because I know it's a matter of time before Darwinism takes care of them.

I think this guy had other problems but I don't sugest this solution:

Man on bicycle who assaulted women sentenced
By Elizabeth Hume
The man who randomly assaulted at least 20 Sacramento women from the seat of his bicycle was sentenced Friday to 14 years and eight months in state prison.
Richard Albert Jiron will also have to pay $5,043 in restitution fees to six of the victims, said Pamela L. Smith-Steward, Sacramento Superior Court judge.

"We felt that was the best we could do under all the circumstances," said Mickey Sampson, Jiron's public defender.

In a plea agreement the 43-year-old Jiron admitted to 23 felonies and misdemeanors attacks on Sacramento women from November 2002 to February 2003. The women ranged from age 13 to 58.

Deputy District Attorney Joyce Smiley told Steward she notified the victims by mail and phone of the recommended sentencing.

Sacramento Bee.

He was punching women (23 of them) in the face while riding as fast as he could in downtown Sacramento. What an idiot

He was punching women (23 of them) in the face while riding as fast as he could in downtown Sacramento. What an idiot

Not to mention a coward.

Sometime you should try riding around Boston and see all the peds jaywalking. I actualy had a conversation with mayor Menino about it one time. He was going off about the messengers running lights and everything but when I asked him about the peds he told me that there is no jaywalking problem in Boston. It got pretty heated after that.

My advice is don't stop, put your head down and speed up, maybe shout something. He'll soon get out the way. If he doesn't ,you should be able to neatly swerve, giving him a warning. I was in a car and the driver did that to a pedestrain who was really taking the piss and he scared him a lot. It's ok to jog past a car and be a bit cheeky, but when you act like that, you should be reminded of the imminence of mortality. You might save their life

People don't understand right of way.

Through traffic has right of way over merging traffic, doesn't mean that if I'm through traffic and spot someone trying to merge ahead I can floor it and wale into him.

PA tries to deal with this by saying that while certain people have to yield the right of way, no one can take the right of

That's about the shape of things here. There is no mention anywhere in our road rules about who has 'right of way', but there are lengthy details on who has the responsibility to give way.

'Way' is a gift, not a right, and as such it should be gratefully received rather than demanded.

Two other pertinent rules we have here:

1 - Pedestrians are not to behave in a way that unreasonably obstruct traffic (this is actually true for all road/path users), and

2 - Everyone has the responsibility to do everything in their power to avoid a collision, irrespective of who is in the right.

So, pedestrians shouldn't just step onto the road and expect everyone to screech to a halt to avoid running into them, but if they do everyone has to screech to a halt to avoid hitting them.

Here in Canada we are in the midst of a federal election campaign. Many of the parties have their riding candidates and supporters stand on the edge of busy thoroughfares waving signs and banners for their party candidate much to the chagrin of those travelling to work who have to slow down for the looky-loos who slow and honk at these dorks on the side of the road.

On my commute yesterday, Friday morning, June 25th, northbound on Russ Baker Way near the east end of the south runway of the Vancouver airport, (for those in the Vancouver area) there they were again. But this time there were 25 to 30 people waving big signs and banners for the "L" party, all stretched across the designated bike lane (which is at least 3.5 metres across) and I'm traveling along at a pretty good clip. Once I get going I don't like to slow down as this part has a slight hump and I like to maintain the momentum. I cleared to the right across a merge lane and there they were. In the bike lane. Not off to the side in the field, but in the bike lane. As I approached, they started to move and I yelled at them to get the hell out of the way. There are two lanes with a merge lane along this route. Traffic moves at 70k/hr + and I prefer to stay to the right in the bike lane.

But this time I had to quickly adjust to the left near the traffic coming from behind. These people scattered (bastards) but some of them decided to move to my left towards the road rather than to the right (which would be the most smartest thing to do) and smack, I slammed into this lady who jumped to my left directly in front of me. I pass obstructions on the left as a car would do, never pass on the right.

I landed to my left, near the road traffic I suppose, still clipped in, banged the back end of my helmet on the pavement, hit my hip, elbow and shoulder. I was wearing a backpack which cushioned my fall onto my back. I got road rash on my elbow, my wheel was bent, my bike computer broke off from it's mount. I was hunched over on the road for a couple of minutes. But eventually got up, but was disoriented for awhile. The lady had mainly bruises I suppose and a sore arm. The extent of her injuries is unknown. She had a dozen people looking after her. I was asking to see how she was doing. She claimed that I purposely ran into her. Well, I had nowhere to go as she moved into my line of travel. PLUS, THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE. They would be better off in the two lanes of traffic and keep the bike lane free and open for us cycle commuters to get to work without polluting the air.

The party candidate offered to cover my expenses. And was sorry for what happened. He and a few others were quite concerned (except for this lady) about my condition. Two people who were driving by and saw what happened stopped to offer assistance and gave me their names and phone numbers. I then called my wife to come and pick me up and bring me and my broken bike home.

I have been putting together my list of costs for reimbursement. I just want my wheel, helmet and bike computer to be replaced. I will be making a visit to the constituency office before the election on Monday. But I'm still sore in a few places, 36 hours later.

People don't realize that they are a hazard when they think they can use a bike lane as a sidewalk and give no consideration for cyclists. They seem to think we go out on a casual ride and shouldn't be traveling more than 15km/hr at any time and be able to move into road traffic to clear them.

While I was waiting for my wife to arrive, there was another group of people for another party, up the road who were also in the bike lane and weren't making any fast moves to move over for other commuter cyclists.

By the way, I wasn't going to vote for him in the first place and I haven't changed my mind.

By the way, I wasn't going to vote for him in the first place and I haven't changed my mind.

Hahahahhahahaah....!

in all truth, you should press charges against his campaign if you ahvent taken any money.

If i recall right, a politician cannot obstruct traffic in any way for any campaign reason....and he obstructed traffic. In Ft. Wayne Indiana, prolly about 6-8 years ago, one guy tried a ploy by helping construction dig a ditch...kinda his way of saying "look I help these people"....but in turn the hooplah over it recuded a major road into 1 lane...making me miss a final exam...the rpofessor didn't care and I failed that class (given I was kinda a bastard back then...but thats aside the point)....

In the end he got charges filed on him, which lead to a charge of some sort that I think got him yanked from the elections.....not sure if he jsut withdrew or he actually got taken out one way or atnoher.

I did have an odd experience yesterday. When riding biker/hiker trails, the expected notice to pedestrians that you are going to pass is "on your left." I will sometimes add "I'm going to pass on your left on a bike" so they will be more aware.

Yesterday, as I approached a woman walking two dogs, I said "I am going to pass on your left on a bike." She immediately moved left. Luckily, I had announced myself so that I had plenty of time to adjust, passing on her right. She greeted me as I passed in a strong British accent.

She had merely done what was natural for her. It wasn't her fault, she was just reacting.

The bottom line is expect the unexpected. And always expect cars and pedestrians to do something stupid.

Yesterday, as I approached a woman walking two dogs, I said "I am going to pass on your left on a bike." She immediately moved left. Luckily, I had announced myself so that I had plenty of time to adjust, passing on her right. She greeted me as I passed in a strong British accent.

I have this happen all the time, and it's nothing to do with the person being British. What seems to happen is that people hear someone behind them say "on your left" and all they hear is "left." They turn to look over their left shoulder to see you coming and then they move that direction. I've even had other cyclists do this!

John