Classic & Vintage - Raleigh Super Course & Lucky Me!

Hi Folks,

Been a while since I posted around here, but today, I made it back to the C&V game. My dear lovely wife found me a pressy for father's day in the shape of a Raleigh Super Course frame and fork. So far, I've been able to do a little detective work, and am pretty sure it is a 1978 vintage. Pictures to follow later...

This is very cool as although I live hear San Jose these days, I was born and grew up in Nottingham and just about remember the Raleigh factory (late 70's & 80s). There's work to do, but I'm already looking forward to riding a bike from home.. :)

First off, I want to work out the build. I'm thinking of setting up with downtube shifters, but would need a band-on shifter set. Rear axle spacing will need consideration also, though I have some wheels that I can use to begin with, by removing a spacer from the rear axle and re-truing - I'd sooner not spread the frame just yet. I have a collection of other parts I can use to begin with, to see how this bike and I get along on the road... Then we can refine things with appropriate parts, as this seems from all accounts to be a decent quality 531 frame.

What I will need to find are:

Chainset, seatpost & binder bolt, front derailleur (I have a good rear d), shifter setup, brakes, headset, Clamp bands for water bottle cages, quill stem & possibly handlebars if what I have won't match up.

Oh joy, somethimg important to worry about at last!

Cheers,

Ed

Of course we wanna see pics.
I've got the downtube shifters off mine (Huret, I think) if you want them. I went to barends.
My favorite bike so far. Every bike I get I compare it to the SC and if it aint better I flip it. I've flipped a few so far.

One note on the spreading of the frame-Do it. Don't waste time removing spacers and redishing. The frame is steel and doesn't care what spacing the rear hub has. Also, the easiest way to find parts is to find a suitable donor bike. Buy vintage road bike if you can find one at a decent price, remove parts, and then resell the frame/fork on the local craigslist. If you do careful shopping you could end up with a Free parts group.

Welcome to my nightmare...I just started pulling one apart this evening for a total redo. Misery loves company. At least yours is already apart! Congrats on a nice present. It'll be worth it in the end.

Cheers. :beer:

OK Here's some pictures as promised:

Although it has a few marks here and there, I'd say condition is excellent, and the real bonus is that it apears never to have been built up :) There was a little surface rust on the steerer tube & threads, but a dose of remover brought back clean shiny metal. A light coating of linseed oil will protect it for now.

108839

108840

108841

108842

108843

I picked up a headset this morning, so at least I can keep the fork & frame together. Unfortunately the stems available at the shop were not suitable - too much rise... More shopping & Fleabay scouring to be done!

To redxj - I might well spread the frame eventually, it's just I have some half decent wheels with a 7 speed cassette "ready to roll" so will go with that to begin with - it's easy & cheap ;). I was a bit wary about spreading, as an old Peugeot "Carbolite" frame I used to ride, spread to accommodate an 8 speed setup, eventually broke at the drive side dropout where it met the chainstay. The Raleigh frame is in a different league in construction The thin stamped Peugeot lugs were nowhere near as substantial, plus that frame had been realigned after a rather serious crash...

To Sailorbenjamin - Thanks for the offer, I may PM you about the shifters.

Cheers,

Ed

Wow, that's a tall boy!

Wow,your "Wife" found that for you ?--- how lucky can a guy get !

Guess she couldn't find one with the gold paint then. :p :innocent:

It's tall-ish, but will work just fine for me.

Regarding the colour, not sure what the official name for this shade is, but copper/bronze metallic is how I'd describe it. Anyhow it's lovely to me!

Unfortunately the junior turnip at the bike shop, despite seeing the frame and fork and talking to the mechanic, sold me a threadless headset - so no luck getting parts joined together today. He also tried to offer me a choice of two different brake calipers (not sets...). Will pop back tomorrow for an exchange and suggest they have him make the tea or fit handlebar streamers from now on :notamused:

Ho-hum....

Ed

Nice looking frame, I like that color. Does indeed look like it has never been assembled.

.... Does indeed look like it has never been assembled.


Yes, there are no tell-tale marks at the brake mounting holes, bottom bracket threads or signs of headset cups having been pressed in. There's the mildest impression from a quick release clamp on the faces of the dropouts.

Ed

I think it's from about 1975, based on the decals.

How tall are you?

I think it's from about 1975, based on the decals.


I believe the Super Course wasn't made from double-butted 531 until 1979 or 1980. Below is the 1980 catalog page:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/Raleigh_Cat_1980_SC.JPG

Neal

According to my decoding of the serial number, it's a 1978 frame. The reference I used for that is here:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html

As for frame size, its a touch on the large side but seems entirely workable, based on the dimensions of my other bikes.

Ed

I stand corrected.

Hey, no worries :)

So I'm slowly assembling parts, and have a lead on some downtube shifters, cable stops etc... However, I've run into a headache with the seatpost... The books say 26.8mm diameter, and this size fits correctly in the collar/clamp at the top of the tube. However it binds solid about 3" into the seat tube, and cant be persuaded further unless I want a permanent press fit. A 26.6mm seatpost will make it all the way, but will require shims, or some other ugly fix for the clamp to work.

As far as I can tell, there's nothing obvious in the seat tube causing an obstruction, just a slight reduction of the internal diameter.

Any ideas please?

Cheers,

Ed

Look carefully at the seat tube. Lay a straightedge along the outside and look for a bow, kink, or crease. Also, try to shine a light in the seat tube and look for any blemishes and debris. Maybe there's some sort of crud in the way. A good wipe with a rag, maybe on the end of a screwdriver, might clear it.

Something wrong is blocking the seatpost.

Thanks Road Fan - I'll give those ideas a try and report back...

It's straight & clean, as far as I can tell with a straight edge etc. What I do note is that there are factory machining marks inside the seat tube and these finish at a depth similar to that which I can insert the post.... Looks like I might do well to find someone who can ream the tube a little deeper.

Nothing's easy...

Try a brake cylinder hone from the auto parts store.

None of the shops near me has a seattube reamer. It seems this craft is dying. I did find the machine tools on the web but haven't justified the cost yet. I'll be impressed if you find someone with the right reamer.

It's straight & clean, as far as I can tell with a straight edge etc. What I do note is that there are factory machining marks inside the seat tube and these finish at a depth similar to that which I can insert the post.... Looks like I might do well to find someone who can ream the tube a little deeper.

Nothing's easy...

Another option may be to take your seat post to a local machine shop. They could easily chuck the seat post in a lathe and machine down the post from the bottom up just engough to allow for the correct fit,
leaving plenty of material for you to clamp on.

All good ideas - Thank you.

I have a brake cylinder hone (my other hobby is restoring my 1967 "English 4 speed" MGB) - it wasn't getting anywhere.
I'll try the shops first, otherwise will look for an adjustable reamer set (useful thing to have anyway). There are several options available, if I can find one that will reach far enough into the tube.

The other thing would be to work gradually with abrasive paper on a dowel built up with tape to the right diameter. The reamer would be better though...

Cheers,

Ed

Update: Problem fixed!

It came down to finding a bike shop with a reamer, which took a couple of phone calls. The mechanic cleared the seat tube down as far as the reamer would reach, and now accepts 6" of seatpost. (It seems difficult to describe this without it seeming rather suggestive, but perhaps thats just me.... :D)

Anyway, I'm now waiting on a few parts, and wondering what else I have in spares that will be acceptable.

Cheers,

Ed

Searching the vaults today unearthed an Ofmega 52-42 crankset that I'd forgotten about. It was a bit scruffy, but has polished up beautifully and will look very nice. I worked from 320 grit abrasive paper down to 2000 grit, wetting with mineral spirits. Brasso took care of the final shine. I'm wondering about doing the same thing with the inexpensive black seatpost I bought, in order to maintain a more classic appearence.

Any input?

Ed

Guess she couldn't find one with the gold paint then. :p :innocent:

Did it come with polyester pants and disco shoes?????;)

I have a GB stem laying about not doing anything, and I live about 35 mile north of you. If you wanna bring the frameset by sometime, we can paw through my crap and see what else we can find.

Maybe even throw it on the stand and do a little assembly, if it's not too hot out in the garage.

:)

Searching the vaults today unearthed an Ofmega 52-42 crankset that I'd forgotten about. It was a bit scruffy, but has polished up beautifully and will look very nice. I worked from 320 grit abrasive paper down to 2000 grit, wetting with mineral spirits. Brasso took care of the final shine. I'm wondering about doing the same thing with the inexpensive black seatpost I bought, in order to maintain a more classic appearence.

Any input?

Ed

Yes, we'd like to see it. It sounds terrific.

And now I've learned a good polishing technique from you. Is it the black type of emery paper you used?

I have a GB stem laying about not doing anything, and I live about 35 mile north of you. If you wanna bring the frameset by sometime, we can paw through my crap and see what else we can find.

Maybe even throw it on the stand and do a little assembly, if it's not too hot out in the garage.

:)

That's a kind thought, though I do have some stuff on order at the bike shop. Perhaps we should PM for an off thread chat - Cheers!

noglider:

Yes, use the black emery abrasive paper for metals, and work through to the finest grade you can get before polishing (in my case 2000 grit). Start with the coursest grade needed to remove any scars, then progress through the grades. Before moving to finer abrasive, you want to be sure you removed the scratches from the previous course grade. The mineral spirit helps keep the paper clear & working longer. Soapy water might also work if the paper will allow it. I'd wear gloves if you're going to do this as the result of sanding/polishing is a lot of black gunge in addition to a shiny part, and solvent exposure....
The other ingredient is elbow grease and perseverence ;)
Brasso, Simichrome, rubbing compounds etc. will all bring up a shine, or you can stay with a brushed finish.

I think there have been some other threads on this in the past - Might be worth a search.

Ed

Hey, there's a Supercourse Mixte for sale in NH;
http://nh.craigslist.org/bik/1243950148.html

Hey, there's a Supercourse Mixte for sale in NH;
http://nh.craigslist.org/bik/1243950148.html

Ooh, that's gorgeous and in nearly mint condition. I wrote to the seller, asking if she'll ship to me in NJ. It probably won't work out, but I have to try.

Ed, I rebuilt a '74 Super Course last year and in my research I discovered that Raleigh did not have a standard seat post size for the Super Course range. Depending on year, it may be 26.6 or 26.8 or something else.

My '74 turned out to be 26.6. I found a Delta post that fit. Good luck with your project!

Here's a thread on my bike:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=440893

Ooh, that's gorgeous and in nearly mint condition. I wrote to the seller, asking if she'll ship to me in NJ. It probably won't work out, but I have to try.

Thats a heck of a deal considering the saddle and frame alone, beautiful!

I rebuilt a '74 Super Course last year and in my research I discovered that Raleigh did not have a standard seat post size for the Super Course range. Depending on year, it may be 26.6 or 26.8 or something else.

My '74 turned out to be 26.6. I found a Delta post that fit. Good luck with your project!

Here's a thread on my bike:


Thats interesting, though my issue is fixed now. When I looked at a 26.6 post, it clearly looked & felt undersize at the clamp, though it did fit in the narrower portion of the tube...

I finally bit the bullet and cold set the rear triangle. Spacing and dishing the rear wheel, including finding a shorter axle (or cutting the one I have) was beginning to look like a waste of time. With care and patience I got the spacing to 130mm to suit the wheelset I have for the present. I also did the frame alignment check with string wrapped from the rear dropouts to the head tube. The lines were symetrical about the seatpost to within 1mm, which I call good enough. The wheel looks just right in the frame!

I also cleaned up some other parts ready for fitting, including a servicable rear derailleur, and repacked the rear hub - progress progress :)

Cheers,

Ed

Update: Problem fixed!

It came down to finding a bike shop with a reamer, which took a couple of phone calls. The mechanic cleared the seat tube down as far as the reamer would reach, and now accepts 6" of seatpost. (It seems difficult to describe this without it seeming rather suggestive, but perhaps thats just me.... :D)

It's only natural that you feel satisfied now that your seattube has been well and properly reamed.

Oh, and polish the seat post. Not so much because we know you're excited to do it. But, that's the curse of my life, mismatched black and polished components. Not that theres anything wrong with components of different colors mixing. But it usually takes away from the look. I've seen some combinations that worked beautifully together, but suspect the owner really worked at it.

It's only natural that you feel satisfied now that your seattube has been well and properly reamed.


:lol:



Oh, and polish the seat post. Not so much because we know you're excited to do it. But, that's the curse of my life, mismatched black and polished components. Not that theres anything wrong with components of different colors mixing. But it usually takes away from the look. I've seen some combinations that worked beautifully together, but suspect the owner really worked at it.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Part of the attraction& motivation here is to have (within reason) an elegant bike, not simply a collection of assembled parts that can be ridden. Think I'll head to the garage for some polishing quality time...

Cheers,

Ed

Sorted. One satin finished aluminium seatpost. That black finish certainly is durable....

It was worth the effort though, the silver look is far preferable IMHO.

OK, enough talk. Here are a couple of progress pics. Can't find a white garage door, so the side of the house will have to do ;)

I'm not that tall ! - I still need to trim the absurdly long seatpost , but am waiting until I can fit bars on the bike to try it for size. The LBS say they have my stem and brakes in, so will pick them up today.

Cheers,

Ed

How tall are you, Ed? I hope you're still pretty tall, because even with the seat all the way down, you better be at least 6'4".

It's a very pretty, clean bike. I bet you can't wait for it to be ready so you can ride it.

noglider - prompted by your concern, I just bit the bullet and cut the seat post for a trial fitting. It's somewhat tricky to sit on a bike with no handlebars, no chain or brakes to hold you steady :eek:

However, it looks like everything is fine for height, and I'll still have a good range of adjustment, it's not right down on the stops. As to top tube length, this will be fine with a 110mm stem, which will put me squarely in the same range of reach as my more modern road bikes. I have a long back, such that I am quite comfortable riding frames that are on the larger side of a perfect fit. In fact I rather like them.


Unfortunately the bike shop hasn't unpacked their delivery, so I won't get any more parts today....

Cheers,

Ed

Nice - very nice! Your pics brought back some memories for me, because this was my first serious road bike back in 1981; same color, Sunsame graphics, except mine bore the legend 'Super Course 12' on the top tube. My guess is the same as yours: probably a couple-three years older than the one I owned. The paint on yours is absolutely gorgeous! Looks as though it was disassembled and then put away in the attic. Nice score.

I would personally have the seat tube reamed by a professional shop. That way, you could specify what post diameter you want. 27.2 being much more readily available than any of the 26 series, that might be the way to go. I'm sure your local shop could affect that for you.

Thanks for sharing the pictures!

Drillium Dude:

Seat tube is fixed now, reamed to 26.8 by a local shop with the right tools. The paint is in good shape but there are a few nicks & scuffs here and there from storage. The frame has never been built up & ridden before. It's amazing to think I'll be the first person to ride this 30 year old frame, and we were born in the same part of the world but both ended up in northern California!

Cheers,

Ed

How bike shops can drive you crazy, or alternatively, why is there no progress on this thread?


A small LBS here helped me out, finding some friction shifters and other obscure parts. On the strength of this I ordered some other (new) stuff. A week later I phoned, employee doesn't know what I'm talking about, but passes me on. He tells me a box came in, it might be there, call back tomorrow. I phoned, nobody knows where the stuff is, blah blah.... call back next week. I phoned today, was told an order just came in, "my" stuff might be there, we'll call you back. Nothing... so as it's 1/2 mile from my work, I pass by on the way home, some 3 hours later. After a long wait at the shop I'm told they are pretty sure it's in the box, but there's no price tag etc.... call back tomorrow... :notamused:

For goodness' sake open the bloody box and sell me the stuff. How hard can it be. At this rate the bike will be another 30 years older before I ride it....



I rather think I might not be calling back tomorrow, but ordering from Mr internet instead. I know thats rude, but I'm tired of indifferent behaviour towards my custom.

Hey Ed, looks like it's starting to come together except for the human factor at the shop. I really like following this stuff. It's sorta like building something when I'm too lazy to get out to the shop myself.

What else do you need? I have a lot of parts so I might be able to give you some or all of what you need.

I agree that your LBS has lost the right to your business. Leave them.

Cheers

Basically, all I'm after is a quill stem and a set of brakes. Although they're not really period correct, I do like dual pivots, and had a good price on a set from the shop. Early on in all this, 3 shops I visited only had rear calipers in stock, thanks to the fixie fashion culture that is rife here buying up all the front brakes...
I want to investigate changing the brake fixing bolts to use external nuts, rather than drill out the frame & fork, as it seems a shame to butcher it.

Oh and I planned on a new cassette and chain, but that's trivial. Anyhow, I'm beginning to think one online shopping session would take care of this swiftly.

More later,

Ed

I have quill stems. At least I think I do. What size do you need?

Brakes are going to be hard for a Super Course. Raleighs of that era used insanely long reach brakes. Annoyingly long. It made the brakes perform badly.

I'm not a period purist by any means. I say try the dual pivots and see how they work. It's the cheapest thing to try. There's no sense in trying to find vintage Weinmann centerpulls. They're not very good. That's what I have on my Super Course (1971). They're barely acceptable, and that's with Kool Stop shoes.

In fact, if the dual pivots work well, I'd love to know!

Get back to me with your requirements for a stem.

And check out Harris Cyclery on the net.

Cheers noglider!

I worked out that 110mm stem should be a good fit. Angle- wise I think 72deg was spot on, but a couple of degrees either way is barely noticable.

I'll check Harris Cyclery too, I know they have a good reputation.

Ed

Patience expired... parts ordered from Harris Cyclery... awaiting shipment...

Wait, that was nearly Haiku....

My patience expired,

parts ordered from Harris on line

expectations rise