Living Car Free - Cars and Dating

Last night I was chatting with a neighbor who said she got rid of this nice guy she was dating for two reasons. "His identity is too tied to his car." "He's too into TV."
She had a car when she moved onto the block but apparently decided it was too much trouble own one. Now she's car free. There are many car free women in DC but this is the first time I've run across one who explicitly rejected a guy for being too much into car culture. I'm posting this anecdote because it contradicts the fears some people express on this list that without a car a guy can't get a date. Times are changing and some pretty young women don't seem so impressed with cars.

Had a "pretty young woman" say that she was impressed that I almost never use a car or public transit AND will use all the money saved this way to fund literacy education in Haiti and other good causes.

If only ALL of them thought that was cool...

David Bowie, "I'm afraid of Americans"
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/david+bowie/im+afraid+of+americans_20036749.html

i live on long island and forget it. the car is the status symbol. if you are like me and use a bike the women consider you a loser.

I dated someone who was impressed I don't drive much. Most of the time, we walked to where we wanted to go.

i live on long island and forget it. the car is the status symbol. if you are like me and use a bike the women consider you a loser.

Maybe you need to find a better class of woman?

In Berkeley a cute fixie can get you laid like a Ferrari in LA.

I think it also depends on the impression you create when you ride a bicycle too.

Depends. A lot of people boast about being car free then suddenly when they need to pick something up, go to the airport with luggage, need to move something big, etc....then they suddenly call up on their friends with evil cars.

I've dated girls who only ride bikes, and that's cool with me, but it's extremely limited. It's basically saying "I am going to take care of my own mode of transportation but you're on your own, meet me there."

Now I'm not saying it isn't good to be self-reliant, but owning and liking cars is not a bad thing like so many people make it out to be.
I like my bike, and I like my car. And I love to open up the engine and row through the gears. I don't think people should cast somebody aside for liking cars just as they shouldn't cast somebody aside for liking bikes.
I love cars, car shows and driving fast. I wouldn't like a person judging me for that.

Depends. A lot of people boast about being car free then suddenly when they need to pick something up, go to the airport with luggage, need to move something big, etc....then they suddenly call up on their friends with evil cars.

I've dated girls who only ride bikes, and that's cool with me, but it's extremely limited. It's basically saying "I am going to take care of my own mode of transportation but you're on your own, meet me there."
This is a good point.

This is what bothers me most about not having a car. I can take care of myself just fine, but not anyone else it seems. It almost feels a little selfish sometimes. If I'm out with friends and we're going lots of places, it's always me riding with them and never driving the other way around. If I were to date someone, she'd probably have to be cyclist herself to understand why I don't have a car. And if she wanted to drive anywhere with me, it'd be her driving and not me (or more precisely her car and not mine, I'd share the driving if she let me). I'd love to go out with someone who also rides; we could ride a tandem everywhere. That would be a blast! But if she didn't ride, it might take some creativity.

I keep pretty busy with school so for the time being I don't really miss the dating scene all that much, but that could change. I honestly don't think it will be much of a problem, as any relationship worth having will be based on who the people are, and not on whether or not each person has their own car. But if it does turn out to be a problem I can always just get another cheap car, or I'll figure something else out, we'll see.

I'm just trying to find girls that don't drive a lot because I don't to start driving more just for a girl, plus girls that ride bikes instantly get points over their non bike peers :thumb:

In Berkeley a cute fixie can get you laid like a Ferrari in LA.

Berkeley ladies with such discriminating taste must be real prizes, eh? Pictures?

Berkeley ladies with such discriminating taste must be real prizes, eh? Pictures?

Yeah, I have to say that someone who would sleep with a person just for having a good-looking bike/car/insert-other-object-here might NOT be a good "prize". Or maybe prize, or trophy, is a good way to describe that person.

Times are changing and some pretty young women don't seem so impressed with cars.

Not the case down here. Though I can care 'less' what chicks here think of me being car-less.

There are attractive women that are ok with, or even happy about, a guy that bikes. Personally, I wouldn't date a girl who was not OK with biking somewhere for our first date, so the fact that I don't have a car shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I'm just trying to find girls that don't drive a lot because I don't to start driving more just for a girl, plus girls that ride bikes instantly get points over their non bike peers :thumb:

Join a cycletouring club.


And here's a hint ... nevermind the car, girls like guys who can cook, clean, and do their own laundry.

or just ride a tandem...

I once saw a guy riding on solo. He then proceed to pick up girls by offering them rides.

I once saw a guy riding on solo. He then proceed to pick up girls by offering them rides.

Lamest pick up line ever -

"can I pick you up on my tandem?"

While I agree times are changing I am not sure we can draw any conclusions that things are getting better for cyclists dating wise just because they are cyclists. There have always been a few people that are anti technology and some of them have been attractive people. But when 8 percent of a population considers themselves cyclists that means 92 percent doesn’t and that is a much larger pool of people to draw from looking for a date.

The second question is how do you escort one of these interesting non car women to a dinner or a show unless you ride around on a tandem all the time? And what degree of privacy does a bike provide while sitting in a park or overlooking a mountain or ocean view in the evening?

It is always good when people can find other people interested in the same things they are. But having a good friend that is basically car free and seeing how long he has been looking for a woman that is car free tells me the numbers are still against cyclists. They are out there but they are harder to find.

And what degree of privacy does a bike provide while sitting in a park or overlooking a mountain or ocean view in the evening?

Better than bucket seats.

The second question is how do you escort one of these interesting non car women to a dinner or a show unless you ride around on a tandem all the time?

Here are some possibilities that you may or may not like - depends on the circumstances. I don't have a tandem and figure I may never have one (it costs money to buy, and then you've gotta have a place to keep it!)

"let's walk together to the ____"
"let's meet at ____"
"can i come over to your place and we'll ride the bus to ____ together?"

Here are some possibilities that you may or may not like - depends on the circumstances. I don't have a tandem and figure I may never have one (it costs money to buy, and then you've gotta have a place to keep it!)

"let's walk together to the ____"
"let's meet at ____"
"can i come over to your place and we'll ride the bus to ____ together?"

Very good. Being carfree is not weird, abnormal or inferior. I wouldn't want to date somebody who thought it was.

:)

The second question is how do you escort one of these interesting non car women to a dinner or a show unless you ride around on a tandem all the time? And what degree of privacy does a bike provide while sitting in a park or overlooking a mountain or ocean view in the evening?

Well, we walk, or bike or bus or taxi or subway.

I've only done a rental tandem once. It was fun because she was a bike racer. A tandem tests your communication and cooperation skills.

We use a blanket or fold up hammock as substitutes for the back seat boudoir. Its really not a problem.

A good light hammock is hammock bliss. http://www.hammockbliss.com/.
I've camped out in them. They're big and strong and with enough material that
you can fold them over two people doing the wild thing. But they also are light and fold up into a nice little package. A DIY version could be made from parachute cloth and a sturdy rope.

A good light hammock is hammock bliss. http://www.hammockbliss.com/.
I've camped out in them. They're big and strong and with enough material that
you can fold them over two people doing the wild thing. But they also are light and fold up into a nice little package. A DIY version could be made from parachute cloth and a sturdy rope.

Yeah, there's like a bajillion camping hammocks and DIY designs on the internet now. They're extremely popular with the ultralight backpacking crowd. There were already a ton when I was doing more camping a few years ago.

Very good. Being carfree is not weird, abnormal or inferior. I wouldn't want to date somebody who thought it was.

:)

Ideologically you have a good point. Practically it looks a bit different. A minority of a minority trying to hook up takes a lot more luck that when you have a larger pool to pick from. In a car centrist society a anti car person is different and strange. Even in the biking community car free is a minority. So in this sub group of a sub group you have to find someone to date that believes like you do and then finds you attractive as well. That in itself is still a long way from a successful relationship. Then you have to find one that is willing to walk to a date no matter what the weather nor how limited the dating area might be.

I have been around for more than a few years and I haven’t seen any big increase in pretty women that view starting life car free as something they put down as what they want when the grow up and enter the working world. There is always the anti culture but the selection is still less than the majority of society. As most social scientist point out; successful pairing up increases dramatically when you have the largest pool of potential people to connect with. The smaller the pool the less selective you can afford to be.

The one big advantage a small group has in that the more devoted one is to an idea the more they are willing to overlook other character flaws in other devotees.

Women don't want nice guys, women wants jerks. The bigger jerk a guy is, the more women he gets. If a woman ever says " you're a nice guy" run the other way and fast.

Women don't want nice guys, women wants jerks. The bigger jerk a guy is, the more women he gets. If a woman ever says " you're a nice guy" run the other way and fast.

:rolleyes:

I've seen plenty of women tell off guys who're obviously jerks, so can the nice guys vs. jerks crap. Men who're indentified as "nice guys" are often insecure and shallow, since they only look for hot women. And many aren't much different from the jerks they're supposedly so different from.

The second question is how do you escort one of these interesting non car women to a dinner or a show unless you ride around on a tandem all the time? And what degree of privacy does a bike provide while sitting in a park or overlooking a mountain or ocean view in the evening?


Looking at a great view is always better when you're outside ... when you're cycling along, when you're strolling along hand in hand ....

Looking at a great view through the windows of a car just loses something.

The second question is how do you escort one of these interesting non car women to a dinner or a show unless you ride around on a tandem all the time?

Then you have to find one that is willing to walk to a date no matter what the weather nor how limited the dating area might be.


If she's car free, she can likely get around just fine without a car. Ask her how she wants to get wherever you're going. She's probably got a pretty good idea of how to do it. And if you want to "escort" her ... you don't need a tandem, the two of you can ride individual bicycles together. Also, why would she have to be willing to walk to a date? Why couldn't she ride her bicycle?

In fact, there's a great date right there ... meet somewhere with your bicycles ... cycle out to a nice park or lake or ocean or whatever is within about a 100 km radius of where you live .... have a picnic, and return home. It's a great way to get to know each other!!

This is a cycling forum, right? So look for women who cycle, not just women who are car free.

If she's car free, she can likely get around just fine without a car. Ask her how she wants to get wherever you're going. She's probably got a pretty good idea of how to do it. And if you want to "escort" her ... you don't need a tandem, the two of you can ride individual bicycles together. Also, why would she have to be willing to walk to a date? Why couldn't she ride her bicycle?

In fact, there's a great date right there ... meet somewhere with your bicycles ... cycle out to a nice park or lake or ocean or whatever is within about a 100 km radius of where you live .... have a picnic, and return home. It's a great way to get to know each other!!

This is a cycling forum, right? So look for women who cycle, not just women who are car free.

Still judging from the original comment about dating and car free the odds are against you. Just to start just finding a cyclist the odds are against you 9.2 to .8. Then even though I don’t believe there is any study done on it I would bet car free cyclists are about one out of every 100 or so. At least if you look in the bike forums car free cyclists are outnumbered. Then there are fewer women cyclists than men, at least from looking at cyclists and club memberships. So if you are a car free male cyclist looking for a car free woman cyclist the numbers aren’t with you.

It doesn’t matter what minority we are in many of us believe things are better than they are. We believe more people are seeing the wisdom of our ideas and habits even when the numbers simply aren’t adding up. Yes there may be success stories and we should be happy for them, but people win the lottery as well. Sometimes we try to put a positive spin on things when they don’t deserve one. I remember hearing in another post that with the economy more people are cycling than ever. The truth is there were more adult bicycles sold in 1973 than today and our population is far greater than it was in 1973. I am sure it sounded good when some cyclist said it.

In reality cyclists aren’t weird or strange but they are a minority and car free cyclists are a small segment of that minority. But cyclists can’t put on rose colored glasses and assume they don’t face more challenges than the majority of society. We need our cheer leaders and our advocates but we also need to splash cold water on our faces once in a while and realize we have chosen a different path and not than many people are following.

All I am saying is your chances of finding a companion are far greater if you have an expanded circle to choose from. The rest of society has a much larger circle.

Still it is an interesting view into how car free cyclist sees themselves.

Yes there may be success stories and we should be happy for them

Thank you. :)

When Rowan and I met, we were both car-ownership-free cyclists, and we maintained that status for a little more than our first year as a couple. :)

Our bicycles even attended our wedding. :D

Still judging from the original comment about dating and car free the odds are against you. Just to start just finding a cyclist the odds are against you 9.2 to .8. Then even though I don’t believe there is any study done on it I would bet car free cyclists are about one out of every 100 or so. At least if you look in the bike forums car free cyclists are outnumbered. Then there are fewer women cyclists than men, at least from looking at cyclists and club memberships. So if you are a car free male cyclist looking for a car free woman cyclist the numbers aren’t with you.


"Last night I was chatting with a neighbor who said she got rid of this nice guy she was dating for two reasons. "His identity is too tied to his car." "He's too into TV."
She had a car when she moved onto the block but apparently decided it was too much trouble own one. Now she's car free. There are many car free women in DC but this is the first time I've run across one who explicitly rejected a guy for being too much into car culture. I'm posting this anecdote because it contradicts the fears some people express on this list that without a car a guy can't get a date. Times are changing and some pretty young women don't seem so impressed with cars."
Actually the original comment was about two people who were car owners when they met but the woman veered away from car culture and is now car free. I'm not sure if she sold her car before or after dumping the guy. While car free I've dated car owning and car free women so I'm one car fee guy who is willing to hang out with car owners. One would throw her bike in the back of her car and meet me somewhere to go riding. The idea the car-free guys limit themselves to car-free women is false. Some may, but that's their problem, they're missing out. When I was a car owner, I went on car-free dates. We'd bike somewhere and have a picnic on the beach. Some beaches which are hard to get to by car are great for a date since you can get the beach to yourselves.

"Last night I was chatting with a neighbor who said she got rid of this nice guy she was dating for two reasons. "His identity is too tied to his car." "He's too into TV."
She had a car when she moved onto the block but apparently decided it was too much trouble own one. Now she's car free. There are many car free women in DC but this is the first time I've run across one who explicitly rejected a guy for being too much into car culture. I'm posting this anecdote because it contradicts the fears some people express on this list that without a car a guy can't get a date. Times are changing and some pretty young women don't seem so impressed with cars."
Actually the original comment was about two people who were car owners when they met but the woman veered away from car culture and is now car free. I'm not sure if she sold her car before or after dumping the guy. While car free I've dated car owning and car free women so I'm one car fee guy who is willing to hang out with car owners. One would throw her bike in the back of her car and meet me somewhere to go riding. The idea the car-free guys limit themselves to car-free women is false. Some may, but that's their problem, they're missing out. When I was a car owner, I went on car-free dates. We'd bike somewhere and have a picnic on the beach. Some beaches which are hard to get to by car are great for a date since you can get the beach to yourselves.


You might be mistaking me for someone who doesn’t see the romance in the simple life and car free lifestyle. I do but I also see how society views most people that swim against the stream.

It is still my contention that a car free male faces more obstacles than a male with a car. Pick up a study on what most women are looking for in a man see how often someone says they want someone car free. Right or wrong this society we live in sees success much like early Planes Indian culture. The man most successful in gaining the best brides had the most horses and was a good hunter. Today it is horse power and a good job and better yet someone that already has a house. Women have pushed that ideal as much as men have if not more.

Cycling is not the first sub culture I have belonged to. Every sub culture has a similar dream, that it will move from a heavy minority status and become part of the majority. This is also not the first time I have associated with the cycling sub group. I was riding in the 70s when it looked like people were changing. I even commuted by bike for several years. But things didn’t change and we are here again talking like the 8 percent is going to overtake the 92 percent. It could happen but it isn’t a horse I would bet on at the track.

Just saying.

Cycling is not the first sub culture I have belonged to. Every sub culture has a similar dream, that it will move from a heavy minority status and become part of the majority. This is also not the first time I have associated with the cycling sub group. I was riding in the 70s when it looked like people were changing. I even commuted by bike for several years. But things didn’t change and we are here again talking like the 8 percent is going to overtake the 92 percent. It could happen but it isn’t a horse I would bet on at the track.

Just saying.

Personally, I cycle for fun. I really don't care if cycling ever becomes part of the majority ... in many ways I hope it does not. And when I commuted (and was car-ownership-free) for 6 years, it wasn't to be a part of some sub-culture with the goal of becoming mainstream culture, it was so that I could get to work in an enjoyable and economical fashion ... so that I could afford my trips to Europe, Australia, etc. :D


To those who are hoping to find a partner who has a similar enjoyment of cycling and/or a car-ownership-free lifestyle, I highly recommend joining a cycling club or two. I particularly recommend cycle-touring clubs, or clubs that have a strong touring element. Those clubs tend to attract more of a mixture of genders, whereas strictly racing clubs tend to be predominantly male. But get involved in cycling, don't just ride to and from work or the grocery store and hope to pick someone up along the way.

I also recommend going out and cycling for fun on your own. Go cycle roads you know that lots of cyclist ride. Near Calgary, for example, there's a road that goes out to Bragg Creek. That road is full of other cyclists in the summer.

And travel outside your own area ... I, a Canadian, met Rowan, an Australian, in France on the Paris-Brest-Paris in 2003. We were among 4000 other cyclists over there. So ... the STP (Seattle to Portland) is coming up ... you've likely missed the deadline for it this year, but maybe next year. Apparently there are approx. 10,000 participants. And there are heaps of cross-state events ... go do a tour of the tours. :D

All this cycling can whip you into shape so that you look good to the opposite sex as well. And if you have travelled with your cycling, and/or have done various events here, there, and everywhere, you'll have something to talk about which the member of the opposite sex might relate to if he/she is also a cyclist, or is at least an active person.


Besides Rowan and me, I know quite a few couples who have met on cycling events, and who continue to enjoy cycling together. :)

Ideologically you have a good point. Practically it looks a bit different. A minority of a minority trying to hook up takes a lot more luck that when you have a larger pool to pick from. In a car centrist society a anti car person is different and strange. Even in the biking community car free is a minority. So in this sub group of a sub group you have to find someone to date that believes like you do and then finds you attractive as well. That in itself is still a long way from a successful relationship. Then you have to find one that is willing to walk to a date no matter what the weather nor how limited the dating area might be.

I have been around for more than a few years and I haven’t seen any big increase in pretty women that view starting life car free as something they put down as what they want when the grow up and enter the working world. There is always the anti culture but the selection is still less than the majority of society. As most social scientist point out; successful pairing up increases dramatically when you have the largest pool of potential people to connect with. The smaller the pool the less selective you can afford to be.

The one big advantage a small group has in that the more devoted one is to an idea the more they are willing to overlook other character flaws in other devotees.

Gosh, if anything could take the fun out of sex, it would be this post. :D

Thank you. :)

When Rowan and I met, we were both car-ownership-free cyclists, and we maintained that status for a little more than our first year as a couple. :)

Our bicycles even attended our wedding. :D

A perfect example. Some people always want to look at the negative and declare that something is impossible even though they never even tried doing it. But you're showing us that carfree relationships and marriages are happening.

:rolleyes:

I've seen plenty of women tell off guys who're obviously jerks, so can the nice guys vs. jerks crap. Men who're indentified as "nice guys" are often insecure and shallow, since they only look for hot women. And many aren't much different from the jerks they're supposedly so different from.

Right on! I'm glad someone said it.

That whole thought that women only like jerks and never like nice guys is such the "poor me" attitude. You have to not care what a woman thinks about you and she'll either like you or not, basically just be yourself. If you're a jerk and she likes you, she's probably a jerk too. If you're nice and she likes you, she's probably nice too.

Lamest pick up line ever -

"can I pick you up on my tandem?"

"Wanna stroke me?"

Had a "pretty young woman" say that she was impressed that I almost never use a car or public transit AND will use all the money saved this way to fund literacy education in Haiti and other good causes.

If only ALL of them thought that was cool...

Very cool. How much have you actually saved and sent to Haiti?

Very cool. How much have you actually saved and sent to Haiti?

So far, I've sent enough to pay for schooling for 40 elementary-school students and 25 adult-literacy students for two months. This cost only $1,700 US.

Since I've been saving on transportation, housing, and a couple other "simple living" sorts of things inspired by folks in this forum (it's actually pretty fun, I think!) I'm able to live well and still give away more than 50% of my income, now that my student loans are paid off.

Right on! I'm glad someone said it.

That whole thought that women only like jerks and never like nice guys is such the "poor me" attitude. You have to not care what a woman thinks about you and she'll either like you or not, basically just be yourself. If you're a jerk and she likes you, she's probably a jerk too. If you're nice and she likes you, she's probably nice too.

How I wish this was true.

I was in the Air force and many of my direct reports were young women that just turned 18. When I got out of the AF and went back to college I was the older guy that many young women felt they could talk with. So I have a pretty broad range to speak from.

IN GENERAL, please note that I am not talking about every woman so don't get all upset if you are different, young women are far too often attracted to the jerks and will pass on the nice guy. I found this out long ago, and since I was not even trying to pick up these women it had nothing to do with how they didn't like me. The reason the often go for the jerks can be seen in what the jerks actually are. For us as guys to designate someone as a jerk in this instance it often revolves around someone that sees women as objects to be used and then discarded. Or used and then kept around to be used again when times were slow. Again in general, a guy that can do that has set his life up to support his habits. He is generally physically fit because he loves looking at himself and could not imagine looking any other way. He has a nice car even if he can not afford to run two nickles together after making the payments because he needs it to pick up women (this can be a nice motorcycle, nice bike, or nice something else depending on his target audience) He is generally very confident (this is the one that puts the nail in nice guys coffin) because he can get women pretty much anytime he wants. He will lie, cheat on them, and anything else that moves his agenda forward, and generally get away with it.

Even the girl I am with right now, in her younger days was with jerks. Her first BF cheated on her and was abusive. She stayed. Her later boyfriend pretty much used her as his personal ATM for years. As she got older she realized things needed to change. We are getting married in Sept, and her family loves me as much as she does. We are equals in the relationship, and that is why things have worked out. My advice to nice guys... Quit looking for the women that are jerks. IN GENERAL, if she is wearing designer clothes all the time, will not let you see her without her makeup, strings you along, etc, etc. Then she is the jerk and you want nothing to do with her.

IMO guys need to stop looking for the 10 that will do everything you want in bed, and women need to stop looking for the guy with the outward appearance of the biggest wallet and fittest abs. I guess if you want a trophy instead of a deep love then you get what you are after. Now, all this was in general, not every woman with a Gucci bag is a jerk, and not every guy that hits the gym for 3 hours a day is either.

Lamest pick up line ever -

"can I pick you up on my tandem?"


"Wanna stroke me?"

It's stoker, not stroker... :lol:

What a weird conversation!

Take a look at the next ten random members of the appropriate sex that you see. Are you likely to be compatible with any of them? Maybe good for a session in the sack, but seriously compatible? The chances are quite low.

Anyone who has a decent amount of self-confidence and a reasonable sense of who they are will have the patience and curiosity to find people they are attracted to. Chances are good that one of these attractions will be mutual; this is the nature of attraction.

For the boys, an Xtracycle is a super-studly peacock bike, that is, if you live somewhere reasonably flat. I think the effect on many women of being ridden around on the back of your bike is somewhat like sweeping her off her feet and carrying her somewhere; plus, the most comfortable way to ride it is with her hands around your waist and head resting on your lower back.

Basically, a nebbishy loser with poor social skills and bad self confidence might have to play some sort of percentage game. I doubt one in a thousand women meet my standards for a partner, and yet, I meet them when the time is right.

By the way, for anyone who can formulate a sentence like "women go for ____ type guys", if you can't formulate a sentence like "men go for _____ type gals" guess what? You're being sexist. If you can make both sentences, you're just wrong. This has nothing to do with preferred modes of transportation, body types, political leanings, favorite music, religious background, or dietary preferences; it's just showing the intelligence to realize that people have differing values in a partner.

I have a few cars and although I hardly use them, I'm glad they're there if I ever needed luggage space, family space, or just chill out and drive. I use the bike a lot more than a car, but I only have one of those. Go figure.

I only know one woman who (genuinely) wouldn't be impressed by a guy's car, but she was wierd and... well, she was very attractive, bt also very wierd. She used to steal knives and forks...

How I wish this was true.

I was in the Air force and many of my direct reports were young women that just turned 18. When I got out of the AF and went back to college I was the older guy that many young women felt they could talk with. So I have a pretty broad range to speak from.

IN GENERAL, please note that I am not talking about every woman so don't get all upset if you are different, young women are far too often attracted to the jerks and will pass on the nice guy. I found this out long ago, and since I was not even trying to pick up these women it had nothing to do with how they didn't like me. The reason the often go for the jerks can be seen in what the jerks actually are. For us as guys to designate someone as a jerk in this instance it often revolves around someone that sees women as objects to be used and then discarded. Or used and then kept around to be used again when times were slow. Again in general, a guy that can do that has set his life up to support his habits. He is generally physically fit because he loves looking at himself and could not imagine looking any other way. He has a nice car even if he can not afford to run two nickles together after making the payments because he needs it to pick up women (this can be a nice motorcycle, nice bike, or nice something else depending on his target audience) He is generally very confident (this is the one that puts the nail in nice guys coffin) because he can get women pretty much anytime he wants. He will lie, cheat on them, and anything else that moves his agenda forward, and generally get away with it.

Even the girl I am with right now, in her younger days was with jerks. Her first BF cheated on her and was abusive. She stayed. Her later boyfriend pretty much used her as his personal ATM for years. As she got older she realized things needed to change. We are getting married in Sept, and her family loves me as much as she does. We are equals in the relationship, and that is why things have worked out. My advice to nice guys... Quit looking for the women that are jerks. IN GENERAL, if she is wearing designer clothes all the time, will not let you see her without her makeup, strings you along, etc, etc. Then she is the jerk and you want nothing to do with her.

IMO guys need to stop looking for the 10 that will do everything you want in bed, and women need to stop looking for the guy with the outward appearance of the biggest wallet and fittest abs. I guess if you want a trophy instead of a deep love then you get what you are after. Now, all this was in general, not every woman with a Gucci bag is a jerk, and not every guy that hits the gym for 3 hours a day is either.

Great post! And you hit upon something that I didn't mention; many of the hot women that nice guys moan about not being able to get are jerks too. Maybe not most, but certainly many, even if they don't seem like it. Nice guys often elevate such girls above jerk status, due to infatuation.

One problem I have with the jerks vs. nice guy discussions is the ambiguity of the terms. There are plenty of people out there, male and female, who're genuinely good and nice people. However, when people display confidence they often get wrongly interpreted as jerks. This is especially a problem for nice guys who can't easily get women. Distinguishing confidence from jerkiness is a problem for them.

My ex came to town, in bad financial order, I will always love her so I offered help, she didn't want a car, so I loaned her an old rusty MTB, she just goes everywhere on it. If we was going on a date, it would be on bikes.

If you truly believe in the numbers game, then move to a bigger city. If you compromise your principles, whether on car use, religious beliefs, social convictions, money matters or something else, you'll probably come to regret it.

On the other hand, while some things are deal breakers for me, others are not. There's a difference between non-negotiable qualities and optional qualities.

NPG: Definitely.

I'm not looking for a car-free woman. I'm looking for a car-free-tolerant woman. (And I've dated several. They are not all that hard to find.)

The car free life style's biggest perk is the awesome BS filter it comes with. I have dated girls who were with me because I had a car(in high school), and then girls who dated me because of what my car was(18-21), now that I am car free though my dating has slowed pretty signifitically but that is a good thing. It has forced me to re-assess my lifestyle and who I want involved in it. Finding girls is only slightly altered because I don't go out as far in town now, I stay within 20 miles or so of home 99% of the time(the 1% is when out for training rides). After I find the girl though its the same game it always was...

Talk to them, see if we click, if we do then we go out on a date and it goes from there. There is always that momentary awkward moment where you just say "Ya I don't own a car." and this is where the filter hits hyper-speed. They either bolt or ask why not, and thats where you have to explain it. I tell them the honest truth, I sold my truck last year because I wanted to find a way to get in more exercise and since I did that I've just fallen in love with cycling. I do have motorcycles off and on, and I let them know that if we start dating and the car thing becomes a serious issue that I can always just go buy another motorcycle.

I know that is not something everyone here can agree with.. and it is pretty "anti-carfree" but it is a life decision I make. Current girl I am seeing doesn't really care.. we have a very simple agreement on driving.

Whenever she drives to see me(I'm about 15 miles) I buy dinner, lunch, ice cream, whatever. I have never asked for a ride to help with an errand, and even with her offers I just reject them. I prefer to be as self-sustained as possible and that is something she finds endearing.

The very simple fact of the matter is that you need to be who and what you are, regardless of everyone else. Life your own life, be as true as possible to it, and everything else will come. Like I said earlier though, if you start dating someone while being car-free and it becomes a serious issue then its time to re-visit your decision making process. Why did you go car-free? Can you change your transportation situation while still abiding by your original car-free reasons? If so, then great! If not, then are you willing to bend some of your ideals to fit with them??

The very simple fact of the matter is that you need to be who and what you are, regardless of everyone else. Life your own life, be as true as possible to it, and everything else will come. Like I said earlier though, if you start dating someone while being car-free and it becomes a serious issue then its time to re-visit your decision making process. Why did you go car-free? Can you change your transportation situation while still abiding by your original car-free reasons? If so, then great! If not, then are you willing to bend some of your ideals to fit with them??

Well said!