Mountain Biking - x-training question

I am looking to improve my endurance, distances and overall health (weight loss). I also find the intensity of mtbiking leaves me burnt out like weight lifting would limiting my days to ride at times (depending on the previous days ride) I was thinking of getting a road bike but realized I don't want to invest that kind of cash in a sport I would be using ONLY for training. So I was thinking. I have a kona roast (2002 so a slightly more traditional geometry than the current ones) that I use for some xc/trails and djing. It seems to fit well. Currently it is out of order as the brakes don't work on it. I have been using my bighit as my xc/trail bike whihc has really proven to me how much weight (and a smaller wheel) affects climbing and overall trail ability. I really want to enjoy my bighit more on the overall trails and not just dh and flatter trails.

So thats the storey. The question is, would buying a new wheelset with semi-slicks (1.9 or 2.0 I guess) help simulate some of the benefits of riding a road bike. This would be signifigantly cheaper than buying another bike dedicated to road work. Remember I am not looking for racing in the least, just something to help me ride better off road and to work on my technique and possibly give me something to cool off with. (heck I might even consider going clipless for just such a purpose) I guess I am wondering if this is a reasonable expectation.

Beyond that, if this is a good option, my next question will be what is a reasonable training program. But that is for another day :)

Sure man go for it. I reccomend you get a generic wheelset an put road slicks on them. Like the Tioga City Slicker that is a good inexpensive tread. You can procure that tire as narrow as 1.25 which would be a relatively fast and low rolling resistance tire. I used to use those on my Breezer (now SOLD!!) and they were great for the pavement. I sold a set of Ritchey semi slicks to a local who commutes sometimes back and forth to the paper, and loves them.
personally unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket there is no sense in buying or building a trick wheelset and popping on high zoot tires. For that you can fix your other bike, and put a down payment on a low end pavement rig.

Just fix up the Roast. You do not need a road bike or slicks to ride on the road although they will help out with speed and comfort on longer rides. The trick with the road riding is being able to ride longer and a steady rate rather then go, stop, grind, spin, ohhhhshyte drop, smash,:D etc. etc. etc.

When I was racing xc I used my mtb for all my road work. About 140mi/week on road. worked fine for what I was interested in.

:beer:

Ok. I should really try some smaller tires then. 2.5's front and back with the front being superTacky make for a crappy road ride :)

go, stop, grind, spin, ohhhhshyte drop, smash, etc. etc. etc.

Hard to base a training program on that style riding. Thats why I am looking for something with consistency :D

Most people run too low an air pressure in their tires.... It makes for alot harder climbing & just pedalling in general...(Why am I giving away this valuable info? Because I'm 42 & no longer race)

I used to change over my mtn.bike to a "road" bike during deer hunting season. I have a set of aero wheels with City Slickers tires. Be sure to run at least 70 lbs. in those street tires! I run 50lbs. in my mtn.bike tires. Do You?

Hell no. Good advice but high pressure doesn't work in all situations. Dh, fr and riding skinnies work best with low air. I do run a bit more air in the dually but the wide tires and sticky compound are slow either way. That and the dually has a 24" wheel which is SLOW!!! :D

Well, the choice is yours.... I just stay in the air more while running high pressures I suppose... It does seem like I bounce alot, but the finish line comes alot quicker.
I come from a MotoCross background, so maybe I'm more accustomed to "Hang Time". ;)

Not racing just technical...don't care about speed on the trail really. More interested in not sliding. More air mean less traction, especially in a rain forest. Besides on parts where I care I get more than enough speed :)

Obviously on the Roast I will run a lot of air as with the tires for training I won't be spending all my time on roots or rocks. I don't even have the tires yet so I don't know what I am gonna run in them, let alone which tires. I am thinking semi slicks seeing as there isn't that much concrete to ride in whistler.

My suggestion to you is use your bike as it was meant to be used XC. Use the normal xc threads etc. You can do long rides getting to the trail from the road then riding the trail. The trick to help build endurance and lose weight at the same time is to do longer rides at 50-60% You should start at around two hour rides. The lower intensity will help you lose weight well building your endurance. You can work your way up to say about 80 km rides that will help you your endurance and weight lost. Remember to eat right after and drink lots of water on these long rides.

Ok That works. But I always have this question. I don't really have trails here that are low intensity. Unfortunately all of the trails really stress my levels and push my heartrate up. This isn't always from climbing but from the ratcheting required. Maybe it is the way I ride but i can't seem to maintain a spin let alone a regulated heart rate. Although this might be easier with lighter (smaller) wheels.

80km...wowsers. Thats like the test of metal level riding. Right now my longest ride is 25km and my most intense ever was a 6km ride (almost vertical). I will take these suggestions. Maybe its time for me to find some 'easy' trails that are longer and more endurance based...hmmm going to have to look for those I think.

Jp, since I also do dh and love a good short intense ride what would you suggest for a plan (obviously a loose plan)

monday - easy low intensity
wednesday - dh (this is usually 4 hours and is far more anaerobic then aerobic...that and adrenaline filled)
friday - short and intense (1 to 2 hours maxed out)

Thank you.

if you want to exercise to lose wieght, just go run. Or go get on an exercise bike, because the Roast is gunna be hell either way. i just ride some XC trails for a couple weeks to drop weight if i need to. but yeah, screw riding on the road.

Yeah I am not anxious to hit the road. I just can't seem to drop weight.

I would run but I can't on concrete. Serious problem with shin splints. Maybe it is time to start running the trails a couple of times a week....hmmmm

the good thing about running is that it works more than just your legs too. your abs and back get a burn too, so its all around better IMO. by all means, ride alot, but road riding a Kona Roast sounds like hell.

Ok I will throw in a good jog/hike per week. Plus get some xc tires on my roast and start putting in time spinning. I of course will still need my adrenaline hit and do some technical or dh :)

I would stay away from the runs if you have problems running on asphalt as trails may not be as hard on the legs but for the longer distances required to lose weight the pain will come back.
I gather you use clipless pedals if you are trying to spin. The secret is to be in a gear that you are getting high rotations in with little resistance you will go the same speed if you gear up. One you have to push harder using more power the other you just do more rotations which isn't as hard.
Know about your downhill riding. I don't see downhill as helping you lose weight. Up on the mountain in your case Whistler Mountain where you can ride for 20 minutes or above none stop you are building the muscles in your legs but it not going to help you with losing weight.
Whistler is great for all the trails trails around. There are lots of lower level technical trails also ones where you can just do longer rides. You should have no problem doing lower intensity and longer distance workouts in your area.

Mael, don't you run platforms? If you do, thats why you can't spin. I know you're anti-clipless but you should give them a real good long try if you start to do training.

I am not really worried about proper spinning. Just proper form. But yeah I am anti clipless :)

Dh for me is fun. Xc is not much fun unless it involves a lot of obstacles (manmade or otherwise)

I have considered clipless but the cost isn't within reason for me to bother. I have more important things to buy than special pedals and shoes (I have very little selection for shoes due to my size)

hey Maelstrom!

i'm not that familiar with the Kona Roast, but i think it's just a burley hardtail. this means it's heavy but otherwise should be fine for what you're wanting -- either road or long/light XC.

the main disadvantage with it being heavy is that it will be slow, but as you said, that's not so important. (of course faster = more fun)

as some others have suggested, i would really think about getting clipless pedals. you can get cheap ones - heck i'd give you old ones if you were here.

and either semi-slicks or slicks - something that you can pump up to at least 35psi (they make slicks for MTB rims up to 100psi i had some on my MTB for touring a while back- just be careful as you might blow up your rims - i wore mine out in only about 200 miles)

i have a road bike and i only ride it maybe once a month. otherwise i do LOTS of road-type endurance trainning on non-technical trails where i use my XC bike (old XC hardtail or my XC full suspension with 100/90mm travel)

if i'm understanding you right, i think the main thing you need to do is work on doing rides that are non-technical enough that you can "zone" in an aerobic area and keep a constant heartrate - say 60-85% of your max (sorry i'm a race and HR junkie)

anyhow, hope that helps and i would try and do that before spending lots for a road bike. although you should be able to find a cheap old 10-speed or 3x7 road bike for like $100-$150...

-nathan

P.S. i'm back from my torn ACL (skiing). i've been riding hard again for about 3 weeks doing mayjor climbs (did 3 rides with over 1100m last week) and also do pretty technical XC (i still can't stand on the pedals which means no jumping or drops)

I am not really worried about proper spinning. Just proper form. But yeah I am anti clipless :)

Dh for me is fun. Xc is not much fun unless it involves a lot of obstacles (manmade or otherwise)

I have considered clipless but the cost isn't within reason for me to bother. I have more important things to buy than special pedals and shoes (I have very little selection for shoes due to my size)

Then don't expect to start losing weight. You have to put forth the effort to get the weight lose. Riding cross country can be very tough when you riding at high speeds simplier paths can start to become much harder paths.

How heavy are you at the moment also what is your height? What weight do you want to get down to.

It just isn't feasible for me to buy clipless. Only 1 or 2 companies make shoes that fit (last time I checked at a cost of almost 300$ for either set). I do ride xc and put in more than enough effort. You are assuming because I don't like xc that I don't 'give'er'...I do push myself really hard even on the flats. If anything I have to work on slowing down and pacing myself. I tend to really power my way through trails which burns me out quick (i'll fly for the 1st hour and then die). There was a ride I went with who said I was not built for xc but track (whatever track is). It probably comes from my background in football, bball and bodybuilding. Short hard busts to kill yourself :D

Ironically I ride more xc on my dh bike than I do dh. Dh and fr just happen to be what I enjoy :)

270 and 6'5. My lean weight is around 220 so I am carrying a lot of excess which I can loose.

Dude, I feel bad now. I'm only 6'0" and I'm only down to 245 from a high of 285 lbs.

The ONLY good thing to come from the big "D" is the weight loss. I'm thinking of starting to run again. I just HATE running. It works up a good sweat in no time though. Especially here in FL, high today were 90 F, and the humidity was near 95%. You start sweating just stretching!!!

I need to move! Have you found me a job yet?

L8R

It just isn't feasible for me to buy clipless. Only 1 or 2 companies make shoes that fit (last time I checked at a cost of almost 300$ for either set).

I don't say you need to get clipless. What is your shoe size. When discounts come around in bike stores bigger sizes can help you out. Buy the pedals with the top that oyu cna slip your foot into and tighten up. What they used before clipless pedals.
What I am saying is you need to learn to pace yourself and do longer rides 50-60% effort for 2 hours or more to lose weight. This will help build your endurance too. If you don't do these rides it going to be very hard to lsoe weight. You don't need clipless pedals to do 80 km rides.

Whoa...you feel bad, why is that, cause you lost weight ;)...good on ya...

I can't believe the heat here this year. 35 degrees in the sun. On the mountain it is crazy dry. I have to wait till 7pm to ride in order to not fall unconcious. I am gonna try and drop to about 260 and start jogging trails. There are some trails that are unrideable up and I would like to see what is up them, might be a good time to go.

Lots and lots of construction jobs here. I still think you should move to WA and get the best of both worlds...living in whistler has one disadvantage ( as far as riding goes) ... there is no point to go anywhere else. If I REALLY want to experience utah/cali style desert I can go to Lilooet which is basically a rock face, cliff faced steep set of trails. :)

Anyways I am babbling. :) Good to hear you are on the up again. I know when I broke up with my wife I started bodybuilding and dropped 50 some odd pounds, girls just love tall guys :)

BTW I could have sworn you were taller hmmmm

I don't say you need to get clipless. What is your shoe size. When discounts come around in bike stores bigger sizes can help you out. Buy the pedals with the top that oyu cna slip your foot into and tighten up. What they used before clipless pedals.
What I am saying is you need to learn to pace yourself and do longer rides 50-60% effort for 2 hours or more to lose weight. This will help build your endurance too. If you don't do these rides it going to be very hard to lsoe weight. You don't need clipless pedals to do 80 km rides.

Sorry I assumed when you said "not willing to put in effort" you were refering to my remark about the shoes.

Pacing myself is key. I have always had a problem with that in all sports...definately not my strong suit :)

Size 15 to 16. (50 to 52 euro) and I think those are speed wraps or something you are refering too...and thats not a bad idea. I should try and find a set. My uncle-in-law uses those and is one of the fastest old guys in canada :D

Yeah, I'd move to WA or CO in a heartbeat, if it wasn't for my son. There is NO WAY I could ever leave him behind. And no way I could bring him with.....is there extradition from Canada???? Hmmmm. J/k!

The only way I'll be able to move now is if SHE wants to relocate as well. I don't see that happening!

I'll just have to come out for my vacations and crash on your floor, or set-up a tent in your backyard!!!

L8R

You are welcome to my loft anytime free of charge...heckI even have a wood shop out back you could crash in.

But yeah I do understand the child thing. My friend just lost his kid to his ex-wife moving to england. Totally destroyed him, but he is getting back on the horse.

And yes there is extradition BUT it requires a really nasty criminal to be send back. We don't send people back to often

if you have problems with any joints,walking is a much better way to go than running.Im losing weight hand over fist(more like chest over belly) by walking just 3 miles a day in 30 minutes with my wife.as far as training goes for endurance and strength go hard one day,light the next,take the 3rd day off completly,hard, easy, off.it gives the body time to build up new muscle which burns calories just being muscle.AND PLEASE DO NOT DO THE LOW CARB THING
its like using motor oil for gas in your car and wondering why it doesnt have the pep it used to have.on the days I ride unless its my max day I walk.if I cant ride due to the heat I still walk.I take 2 days off a week and either walk and ride or ride or walk the rest of the week. .the morons behind the wheels of cars here are why I avoid pavement when possible too.good luck on the weight loss,I too was looking for better fitness since turning 40 and am not a speed freak(just love being in the woods on a bike)but I do like obstacles,roots,rocks and MUD,and it got so I could not enjoy the rides due to my excess girth so I got a book called "turning back the clock" and have learned a lot about finess,nutrition, and the way it affects our performance

Because I used to power walk for fitness when I was weightlifting, walking does almost nothing for me. My body just got to used to walkng I guess. Although hiking the trails does a lot, which I plan to try and work in. Thanx to jpplay I have a routine to play with now, so hopefully i will start to see some results.

I have found a regime and for the first time in a long time will be adjusting my eating to have cabrs up. I have been using a low carb (not like atkins but the zone, slightly modified for my preference) diet for the past 10 years. While it works for anaerobic I have a feeling it is killing my aerobic. So I am going to try and increase good carbs.

btw thanx guys. I appreciate all of the suggestions. I can't wait to get this into full swing.

And who knows if I can drop enough weight and keep enough muscle I may start entering races for fun...just not xc, I will never be good at those ;)

since starting to lose some weight I have much more energy.where we live has some pretty big hills so my HRM(heart rate monitor) gets up into the 150s but it mostly stays in the upper 120s which at 40 is right on the upper end of the target for losing fat. when I first got it I was riding and got kinda dizzy so I looked at it and it was 182.(the chart I use says 180 is 100% and that was after resting a couple minutes I got my sense of what day it was enough to look down). thats why I started walking,to strenghten my heart and its working great for me.I take a hit of protein when I get done as well as more carbs in the form of milk or yogurt to keep from getting sore.keeping my heart up walking has helped me tremendously on climbs and endurance.after a ride now instead of feeling like crap I feel stoked and very alert . BTW I saw a few months back on the news where a study says that walking in the woods or street burns about 50 more calories than using a treamill due to the use of your senses when outside vs inside.

and Maelstrom its an honor to be able to try to give back some advice since you and some others have been so good at passing along good useable advice plus putting up with some pretty silly stuff we ask around here.there are a few here that need an optirectomy(the operation to remove the cord between your butt hole and your eyes so you wont have such a crappy outlook) but I for one look at the posts that you,A2,kona and others I do not mention now with expectation of being a better rider next time I hit the trail due to yalls advice.thanks to all here who post here

I just enjoy contributing to the community. Mtb is a lot of fun and should be. I appreciate the help, this is one aspect of my life I can't see to really get a hold of. I am glad I have helped you in the past.

Time for me to go for a hike before it gets dark :)

Cheers :)