Electric Bikes - Question on Currie Ecoride or Via Rapido (Li-ion)

I've got a Currie Ecoride on order (http://www.currietech.com/currie-technologies-ezip-eco-ride-for-women-electric-bike.php) but now I'm nervous about the "PAS Pedal Assist" system. With my ezip, often I would pedal without the battery - through traffic, through campus with pedestrians, on flats or slight (or major) downhills... But with the Ecoride (which I believe works the same as the Via Rapido), it says you have 2 modes - "Allows users to select between two modes.Pedaling Alone: This option gives 50% of available power assist, conserving energy. Pedaling while Activating Throttle: This option allows user to go from 50% to full power assist or anywhere in between."

To me, this sounds like any time you're pedaling, the motor is running. At first, that sounds fine, but I'm thinking about: 1) when I'm going slow through traffic, around pedestrians, through a parking lot, construction zone, etc. where I don't want to be going 15mph - I just want to pedal slow. 2) When it is flat or downhill I don't need the battery and having it running will perhaps cause the battery to run out before I get to work. 3) What about when I'm going >15mph by pedaling (for instance, slight downhill)? With the ezip, I know that the motor doesn't spin fast enough to provide any boost when pedaling faster than 14mph or so, so I would never turn the throttle when going this fast. So with the Ecoride, will the motor be running simply because I'm pedaling, even though it's providing no help at all? If so, that's a total waste. I hope I'm misinterpreting the limited description on the website. Hopefully at the very least, the motor stops running if you're already going >15mph.

This automated thing makes me nervous. I really want the better lithium ion battery over the SLA, but I'd rather just have a plain throttle where I decide when to use the motor.

Does anyone have one of these bikes, and could shed some light on this?

Cathy

Thanks for the email today Cathy... I just wanted to post my response to your questions about the Via Rapido so others could read. This should clarify how the bike operates:

"We just recieved our first Via Rapido's last week and were able to take our first test ride...

Once you turn the switch on, the bike starts off in pedal assist mode. As you pedal, the pedal assistance will kick-in automatically (and it's quite a "kick"). To provide the extra 50%, you can turn the throttle to add more power, but the throttle doesn't operate independently. To turn the system off, you have to reach back and hit the switch on the battery.

To be honest, we were slightly disappointed with the design and voiced our concerns to Currie immediately. Since then, they have provided us a "jumper" wire to bypass the pedal assist so the bike can be fully throttle-controlled. So this is an option, but it will reduce the range (if you don't pedal) and voids the warranty."

CONTINUED:

"In particular, our main problem was you couldn't turn the pedal assist off without reaching around to the switch (which can be unsafe if manuvering in an urban environment). And the pedal assist is definitely not self-adjusting. When it kicks in, it's at 50% and it's quite a boost. Manuvering through people or in tight spaces, it's almost too powerful. And the only way to stop it is to hit the brakes or turn around to the "off" switch. Ideally this model should have a switch on the handlebar. But converting it to throttle-only, you have full control with the throttle."

ABOUT THE JUMPER:

Currie provided us with a "jumper" to bypass the pedal assist on this bike. It's simply a looped wire with a connector. To install, just flip the bike over and access the door underneath the controller box (in front of the battery). Inside you'll find a loose wire (the only loose wire in the box) with a matching connector to the jumper. Once connected, it bypasses the pedal assist and it's fully throttle controlled like many IZIP / EZIP models.

I was also told by a Currie tech if you take the TAG / PAS throttle (with red switch) on many Currie bikes and install it on the Via Rapido, it will allow you to have pedal assist - and the throttle - as two seperate modes. This is how all the new 2009 IZIP / EZIP (SLA) bikes work. Although we haven't verified this works yet, the TAG / PAS throttle has one connector that matches the existing throttle connection, and a second connector that matches the loose wire where the jumper connects. I'm guessing it will work great...

At some point, we may add the TAG / PAS throttle (vs. the jumper) since it will allow riders to have both functions (like they should!). But for now, we're not going to invest the time and money into new throttles for every bike. Hopefully Currie will make the changes or provide us upgrade parts...

Their logic is... riders will get more range if they're forced to use pedal assist. This way riders can't use the throttle without pedaling which will reduce the range significantly. But the big problem is... in the current form it's very difficult to turn the pedal assist off. There's no handlebar control, and the rider has to reach around to flip the switch. The TAG / PAS throttle would solve all these issues since it could be operated in pedal assist... then you could switch to throttle control to turn the pedal assist off...

JUST MY 2 CENTS...

And my two cents about riders getting more range if they're forced to pedal is this: I want to pedal at times with NO motor running - when it's flat or slight downhill. That will extend my battery power even more! With my eZip I probably used the motor less than half the time - maybe even just a quarter! OK, I'm off to beg Currie for a jumper...

All you need to make the jumper yourself is a 2 inch piece of wire. Strip each end, loop it between the two pins on the yellow/brown lead (it's a black, two pin, female plug)

The pedal assist sensor won't work at all, however, when these are jumped

also, it's a better idea to ask for a PAS/TAG throttle instead of a jumper, since this will allow you to effectively jump/unjump on the fly

All you need to make the jumper yourself is a 2 inch piece of wire. Strip each end, loop it between the two pins on the yellow/brown lead (it's a black, two pin, female plug)

I forgot to mention this in my post... you should be able to create your own jumper by simply connecting the wires. To do so, you can do as described above. Or, you could cut off the connector completely and splice the two wires together.

But a better choice would be the TAG / PAS throttle (as mentioned). This should work... but we still haven't verified it yet...

All you need to make the jumper yourself is a 2 inch piece of wire. Strip each end, loop it between the two pins on the yellow/brown lead (it's a black, two pin, female plug)

The pedal assist sensor won't work at all, however, when these are jumped

Thanks. That makes me feel better, in case Currie won't send it to me. Sounds like you've got this bike and have tried this jumper?

I obviously don't have a full grasp of how all the wiring works, because I'm thinking if the pedal sensor doesn't work at all - it seems the throttle wouldn't work, because it was my understanding that the throttle won't make it go if you aren't pedaling (ie. if the pedal sensor doesn't think you're pedaling).

Although I'm curious about the PAS/TAG throttle, I don't think I'm going to ask for one. I honestly can't imagine ever wanting the motor to kick in automatically. It is very common for me to get up to a speed where the motor wouldn't help (but I'm still pedaling). I'll try the bike without the jumper just to see how it works, but then I'm fine with it being off forever. It is also possible that switching throttles will cause problems, or at the very least, the lights on the throttle indicating battery power won't work right, since the PAS/TAG throttle was made for SLA batteries. I have a SLA conversion kit from Currie that stopped working and they've stopped selling it because of problems, particularly with the wrong throttle being shipped (and the don't have the right one). So I'll be returning that...

On another thought... Given Currie's logic for creating it this way (forcing users to pedal will save the battery) makes me think that they think of their customers as lazy people who, if given the chance, will not pedal and will just use the throttle (but then, why didn't they just make it throttle-operated where the throttle doesn't work if you're not pedaling?). They need to think of their customers (or at least some of the customers) as fairly in-shape people who like biking, but need a little help to make a long bike commute feasible.

I agree changing throttles or adding the extra handlebar switch I describe below seems to me the only sure way, if the TAG/PAS throttle does work. A jumper, as described, implies that all controllers are the same . I haven't found this to be true on eZips.

I have two eZip controllers. I bought a backup when I bought the bike. I still have an unused one. I was looking at the Currie site one day and noticed that a controller purchased now has one 5 pin signal (vs power) connector total, including brake. My original(still used) controller has 3 signal connectors: brake and White box and black box ( two lozenge box sized doodads in with the controller. The 'spare' I bought has 2 signal connectors one with 5 pins, one with 2 for the brake. I have made adapter harnesses so if the need arises I can use the 2 connector spare in my 3 connector wired bike.

The point is the wires are subject to change without notice. The functions stay fixed. I'm pretty sure the switch around the brake switch would meet your needs. About jumpers: a knowledgeable person could figure out which wires to jumper in this week's version, but it would be a little difficult to help the less informed to find out which version they have. Notice the 'pretty complete' electrical schematic in the OWNER's Manual has no color identification on the wires and sort of fudges the connectors.

I guess I didn't make it clear. I suggested mounting a switch by the brake or throttle, a simple (hardware store) toggle. If you want to use Cathy power flip it one way. If you want to use the throttle to adjust UP from 50% power, with 50% as a constant flip it the other way. There are two positions, two modes. Switch pushed away from you Cathy power. It would be as if you had reached back and turned off power, except it's easy to turn back ON if you need it. Switch pulled toward (toggled, it will stay) you, you have what the designer had in mind.

This switch wired around (that is in parallel with) the brake switch will keep the power off when a person wants to pedal unassisted and save a lot of battery juice. If by the brake, we're talking inches of wire all where it's easily accessible/ removable ==> returned to standard warranty configuration.

Don

Thanks. That makes me feel better, in case Currie won't send it to me. Sounds like you've got this bike and have tried this jumper?


On another thought... Given Currie's logic for creating it this way (forcing users to pedal will save the battery) makes me think that they think of their customers as lazy people who, if given the chance, will not pedal and will just use the throttle (but then, why didn't they just make it throttle-operated where the throttle doesn't work if you're not pedaling?). They need to think of their customers (or at least some of the customers) as fairly in-shape people who like biking, but need a little help to make a long bike commute feasible.

Basically when we switched to these Li-Ion packs, we found that the highest strain on the batteries came when accelerating from a stop. It was management's feeling that giving people the option to use the bikes with Li-Ion packs as "scooters" with throttle only would have more of a negative impact (by reducing range/effectiveness) than forcing people to use pedal assist.

I'm of the opinion that our pedal assist system needs to be adjusted. The three points you made in your first post give credence to the exact problems I've been considering since first riding the things, basically that it's difficult to ride the bike as ONLY a bike, on occasions when you want to switch on the fly.

I've been trying to make the case to R&D that the sensor needs to be speed sensitive, as opposed to being a pure ON/OFF switch, and that we need an ON/OFF switch on the throttle to allow easy disabling of the battery while riding.

and that we need an ON/OFF switch on the throttle to allow easy disabling of the battery while riding.

ol!

Your idea is just what the switch I described in the post above yours would provide. Mod parts cost <$1

Don

If it's not already clear, I work at Currie and I'm speaking about what I want to see as future changes to the product

Basically when we switched to these Li-Ion packs, we found that the highest strain on the batteries came when accelerating from a stop. It was management's feeling that giving people the option to use the bikes with Li-Ion packs as "scooters" with throttle only would have more of a negative impact (by reducing range/effectiveness) than forcing people to use pedal assist.

I've been trying to make the case to R&D that the sensor needs to be speed sensitive, as opposed to being a pure ON/OFF switch, and that we need an ON/OFF switch on the throttle to allow easy disabling of the battery while riding.

ol!... I think most people would prefer the independent throttle (and pedal assist) like the PAS / TAG throttle provides. This gives riders an option (and everybody loves options). But if management is worried about the throttle reducing the effectiveness of the battery, it should at least have an ON/OFF switch on the handlebars so riders don't have to reach around to shut it off.

Why couldn't you use the PAS/TAG throttle and put a disclaimer on the spec sheet: "Up to 22 miles (with regular pedaling in PAS mode)"?

ol! - I hope I didn't offend when I wrote "it's as if Currie thinks...". I think it's cool that you're here reading these forums. It's really the best way to assess what people think of your products. You've probably got such a variety of riders to consider (ie. can't make all the people happy all the time).

I understand Currie wanting to lengthen battery life. So I'd be fine with the motor not working unless the person is pedaling. I just don't want it ALWAYS on. To me, the most obvious way to extend battery life is to not use it. If my commute was all flat, I would not be using an ebike at all.

Thanks for explaining how to jump the wires myself. I've been communicating with Tracy at Currie - I only have a phone number, not email, and I really shouldn't be chatting on the phone while at work, so if you want, you could tell her that you've talked to me and she can disregard my begging phone message - she doesn't have to send me a jumper. :)

Your phone message made its way to me, I made the jumper personally and I'm putting it in with your bike. I also took some photos so you can see exactly how you can get it installed.

I think it'll work very well for you

Your phone message made its way to me, I made the jumper personally and I'm putting it in with your bike. I also took some photos so you can see exactly how you can get it installed.

I think it'll work very well for you

Thank you thank you! You're my hero. I am so psyched that this bike will be more than 20 pounds lighter than my eZip with 2 SLA batteries (in case you haven't read all my threads, one SLA was enough at first, but I was draining it quite far down which damaged the battery). This will make it even easier for me to pedal without the motor more of the time.

It may seem odd, that I'm excited to NOT use the "e" part of my ebike. I'm just pondering the mental/psychological importance of being able to NOT use the motor. With my eZip, sometimes I'd be pedaling along, without the motor, and think, "Hey, I think I'm using the motor less than I used to. I must be getting in better shape! Yay me!" I want to get some exercise while commuting. And I am proud of myself when I feel that I am becoming a stronger biker. For me, the ebike is like the machine at the gym that helps me do pullups by taking some of my weight. I aspire to do pullups on my own. I aspire to be in good enough shape to be able to commute on a regular road bike. That may never come to fruition, but it is still my aspiration, and so being able to only use the motor when I want to is critical to my workout and wellbeing.

Maybe it's a girl thing.

ol!,

You are good people.

Your phone message made its way to me, I made the jumper personally and I'm putting it in with your bike. I also took some photos so you can see exactly how you can get it installed.

I think it'll work very well for you

NOW THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE! Currie has been great to us so far! And it's great to see them treat individual customers the same way!

I hope no one at Currie takes offense to us posting information (and opinions) on the board. But we've gotten emails, calls and questions in our shop... and we want people to get all the facts.

Once again... it's great to see you're taking care of this at the warehouse. GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!

Glad I could help. I actually work in product development, so it's always fun when I get a chance to help someone out on a personal level

ol!

I agree it's great you're here and that you hear Cathy's thoughts by phone. I too think Currrie is better than average for vendors in fields in general. I have had great service in getting the spares I thought logical and getting replacements for manufacturing errors. I was particularly impressed when they extended the 6 month warranty printed on the documentation for my 2008 eZip, purchased in 4/08 to a full year warranty good to 4/09. That showed an attitude to be respected. In 1971 Toyota did something similar, I still drive Toyotas.

One thought I have for Currie: they could spend a little more time on the " human interface design" in their choice of language (acronym/words used).

Using PAS for Pedal Activated System, as in PAS/TAG (like the eZip) where pedal activated means pedaling ENABLES the throttle. And PAS on the Ecoride, standing for Pedal Assist System which means we turn on the power to 50% when the pedals turn, is not good practice when applied to two products that will appeal to the same people. Same acronym very different results.

Also if the argument is that Pedal Assist System is to get people to avoid starting without pedaling, I think an 'always working' Pedal Activated System, no switch to TAG would have worked just as well and had other advantages as we know. In addition Currie had just spent years and $ getting people to understand what "Pedal Activated System" meant. At first everyone thought that red button was an ON/OFF switch for power assist.

I see a considerable amount of confusion/unhappy customers coming from the change.

I hope everyone at Currie is happy with your, sort of, representing the company here. Make sure the lawyers don't get tense. Glad to have you here.


Don

An UPDATE:

The Currie site will NOW download an Owners manual from the Ecoride page. And it does include wiring diagrams, just as the manual for the iZip did on 6/24 this year. It describes the circuits in my 2008 Mountain Trailz eZip the same way the iZip manual did, as well as other control systems. The printed Owner's Manual that came with the bike DID NOT describe any wiring. Unfortunately the "new" manual on the Ecoride page labled eZip is EXACTLY the same manual that was labled iZip on 6/24. There is NO description of the new Pedal Assist feature. There is not even a diagram with fudged connectors and no color identifiers.

I got the ecoride yesterday. Got it put together, installed the jumper, charged the battery. The battery wasn't full until after dark, so I only got to ride it a tiny bit, and not on any significant hills yet. So far so good. Tomorrow, if it FINALLY stops raining as it is supposed to, I'll ride to work. Normally I'd do a test ride out and back to home, but I don't have a chance to today, and want to pounce on the first no-rain day in a while.

I am very pleased that the bike is much lighter than the ezip trailz, not just because of the lighter battery, but also the bike itself is lighter. The website's listed weight of 54 lbs is dead on. I actually weighed it at 53.5 (with battery).

The charger is much bigger than with the ezip trailz. But it's not very heavy, so carrying it to work shouldn't be a big deal. Probably not worth buying a 2nd charger to leave at work, at least not til my credit card recovers. The charger does have a built-in fan and makes some noise - kind of like a computer with it's fan running. Again, not a big deal, but I'll charge it in a different room than I'm in.

The pedals that came with it don't accept toe clips/cages. I don't mean the kind that use fancy shoes, I mean these: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000BMUC5K/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

I took the pedals from my non-e bike, and will trade the stock pedals for the one's on my nephew's ezip trailz (which are the right kind) when I see him.

The seat has a shock absorber, which is nice, but it causes the seat to not go as far into the tube as a regular seat post. I'm 5'4" and it's almost (but not quite) too high for me. Just so you know, if a kid's going to be riding it..

I'm excited to test it out tomorrow!

Cathy

saw this post by chance and I never mean to offend any body here, but just want to say something. I could understand the requirements of low speed no matter of pedallign or using only throttles, so speed switch button might be a choice for any ebikes. We have installed a 3 speeds button with the kit throttle for all our kits, seems this could solve the problem mentioned here. The low speed switch could limit the bike speed under 6mph, by pedal or throttle. Or you could simly switch off the system by the key on the headlamp, to use the ebike as a normal bike without any e-power.

Details on this could be ready by http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10466. Thanks.

Cathy
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Congrats. Glad to hear you got your bike. I hope you have a great time on your ride tomorrow. You know we'll be waiting to hear your report. How far? Hills OK? etc.
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Some day later in the summer, when your bored, it would be interesting to hear what you think of the system without the jumper. Currie could probably use some intelligent feedback from a paying customer.
Have FUN!
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Louis
Glad to have you here. I looked at your's and www.worldwideelectricbikes.com's web pages. They look interesting. Please keep up the discussion with us. We all gripe about Currie but we do like them, my eZip has 2,315 miles on it (much with a LiFePO4 battery from Ping). Your product looks like it will keep Currie motivated both on quality and price.
Good luck to your enterprise.
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Don

Cathy
Glad to have you here. I looked at your's and www.worldwideelectricbikes.com's web pages. They look interesting. Please keep up the discussion with us. We all gripe about Currie but we do like them, my eZip has 2,315 miles on it (much with a LiFePO4 battery from Ping). Your product looks like it will keep Currie motivated both on quality and price.
Good luck to your enterprise.
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Don

Hi Don, thank you for all the comments, we just wish our product could supply the customers another posibility when they wish ebiking.There are many good products on the market and I believe Currie is one of them with quality and reliability.

I made it to work! All is well. The battery gauge on the throttle has three lights (green, yellow, red) and it did not budge off the green the entire time, even under load (when going up a hill). So either it has amazing battery life or the battery gauge is not accurate. I'll need to take it for a longer trip sometime to find out (I can't even believe I'm saying that - gotta ride farther than 14 miles to see if the gauge works!). My main priority is that the battery not die before I get to work, and so it passed with flying colors. On one hill, which gets steeper for just 40 yards or so right before cresting, I could tell the motor had less power than the SLA ezip. But it still got the job done - helped me get up the hill with much less exertion than w/o a motor. And it was only that one single spot that I noticed a difference. And it feels like power I can depend on. On the Trailz, I could hear the SLA getting weaker as it went up some hills - it would start out stronger than the ecoride, but get worse on longer hills. I'd happily trade that for the ecoride's slightly less, but more consistent hill power. So I'm very happy!

Towards the end, as I knew I'd have no problem getting to work, I began using the motor excessively (on flat or barely up hill, where in the past I'd just putter along so as not to totally drain the SLA battery). It is in this gratuitous use of the battery that it really becomes fun. Having to ration the battery and worrying about it dying (which I had to do with the SLA) is not fun. The trip home is going to be a blast, since I'll use the motor even more (I want to see that yellow light!).

The only critique I have (in addition to the ones I mentioned in a previous post) is that the battery rattles around in the rack a bit when going over bumps. I had wedged a folded up piece of paper in a crevice to hold it tight, but that fell out almost right away. I'll be putting some sticky-backed felt or neoprene dots in a few places.

To review, my ride one-way is 14.2 miles, with quite a few hills. The hills aren't too long, or too terribly steep, but are steep enough to really slow me down and exhaust me on my regular bike. On flat areas, I enjoy just biking w/o the motor, so I installed the jumper to disable the always-on-while-pedaling PAS system. Now that I know the battery will last, I may use the motor more, but there is still no point having it on when I am easily cruising at 16mph with little effort. My overall moving average speed was 14.9 mph which is near the top of what I've acheived on the Trailz. My max speed was 37.3 (going back up that this evening will be the most serious test for the bike, but I'm not worried because it's no steeper than the other hills I did this morning, it just goes on a little longer).

Cathy

P.S. - I meant to post a picture. It's not from today since I don't have a card reader at work (I did take a pic of some nice horses) but it'll give you a sense of my lovely ride.
http://www.uvm.edu/%7Eclryan/images/cow.jpg

Cathy
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I'm glad that your needs were met. I'll bet you gave a big sigh of relief. It's rough to be committed to something and have doubts. I'd guess the money wasn't trivial either.
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Tomorrow, I'm supposed to take delivery of my first recumbent. Again, lots of doubts. I've been wanting to give one a serious try forever. Who knows it may become a Currie powered eCumbent.
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congratulations, Don

I thought I'd just post an update now that I've had the Ecoride for a little more than a month. Last time I wrote, I had ridden it to work for the first time, the battery seemed to still have plenty of power, and I planned to use the motor even more on the return trip, to try and see the green ("Full") light change to yellow ("Half"). I charged it at work and rode home, using the motor even more. When I got home, the light was still green ("full") so I rode farther. I rode around some dirt and paved roads, sat out a rain shower under a pine tree, and finally went home after 21 miles because it was getting late. The light was still green, and the bike still had power.

Since my round trip to work and back is 28.4 miles, my next test was to ride to and from work without charging it at work. I figured, worst case scenario, it would run out of power on the way home and I'd just have to pedal. It didn't run out. The light was still green. I've done this at least 4 times, using the motor a little more each time (in places where I could just downshift a little and pedal without the motor without much trouble). I still haven't run the battery dead, nor have I seen the light switch from green to yellow. I'm going to have to not charge it after a work trip, and take it out on the weekend for an extra ride, if I ever want to see how far it will go.


SO, in summary, I'm amazed by the longevity of the battery. In my situation (willing to do a lot of the work, mostly just wanting help on hills), I can go 30 miles per charge. It does have a tiny bit less power (speed, torque) on hills than the SLA motor, but I'm totally happy with it. On the steepest hills, I don't know if it would get up them if I wasn't also pedaling to help, but I'm fine with that - I almost never use the motor without pedaling - It's not a moped. In fact, I've been thinking that as I use the motor more and more, I'm not getting as good of a workout! But I still think it's enough to count as one of my 3-times-a-week workouts. :)

Cathy

Cathy,

Thanks for sharing your experience about your Ecoride on our forum at eco-wheelz.com. Just wondering... did you end up installing the 'jumper' on this bike so it's fully throttle-controlled? If so, that makes the 30 mile range even more impressive! Must be doing a lot of pedaling with just small amounts of assistance here-and-there. Wonder how many miles you're actually using the throttle???

Hey, Jeremy. Yes, the jumper is installed. But when you say the range is more impressive being throttle controlled, I'm confused. I would think the battery would drain faster if it was on all the time, including when I don't really need it. By being throttle controlled, I'm only using it when I need a little help. I always say, the best way to extend battery life is to not use it! But remember, when I say it's throttle controlled, I'm not using it like a moped - I'm pedaling. I don't make it start me from a dead stop without pedaling. It actually feels weird for me not to pedal unless I'm flying downhill.

I've often wondered about how much, time wise, the throttle is on. It would also depend how much/hard it is on - it is definitely variable. But if you pictured simplified terrain - 1/5 of each of the following: slight uphill, steep uphill, steep downhill, slight downhill, and totally flat. I wouldn't use the motor at all on the slight downhill (I'd be pedaling, but easily going >16mph, the limit of where the motor can help) or the steep downhill. Typically, I wouldn't use the motor on the flat, but recently I have been, to try and see how long the battery will last. So, even being lazy and using it when it's flat, I'd only be using it 3/5 of the time. In actuality, when I'm not purposely trying to use up the battery, I wouldn't really use it when it's totally flat except for a very occasional boost. So that's more like 2/5. THEN, in reality it's probably flat more than 1/5 of the time. So, very roughly, I'm sure the motor is on less than half (except when I'm purposely trying to run down the battery, like today).

Compare this to without the jumper - the motor would be on all the time except when I'm not pedaling, which would only be the steep downhill. So it would be on 4/5.

Obviously, it's very hard to compare when someone says they are able to go x miles on a charge.

P.S. - Jeremy, with the Via Rapido bikes in your shop, and testing them out, have you ever seen the mythical yellow light??

Kathy

It's great to hear that you are so completely satisfied. Every part of life should be as good as your Ecoride has been for you. I'm glad the jumper worked for you.

I'm in completely in agreement with you, I use my motor a lot less than if it were running at half throttle all the time. I think it's hard for people like us to understand Jeremy's comment. If you are bored you could contribute to the general knowledge by removing the jumper for one of your workday commutes. Maybe you would have a chance to see the yellow LED. I'm not suggesting a super rigorous test but a comparison. With jumper yellow light after one commute and X miles. Without jumper yellow light at ...

Anyway, I'm glad you got a bike that serves you well.

Kathy

Not to belabor this but there is another reason our technique of riding works better. Half throttle is a terrible position with regard to battery life. At full throttle the motor is at or near its desired design speed. The back EMF of the motor almost equals the battery voltage and current only is necessary to overcome wind resistance and friction.
At half throttle the motor is only able to run at at half its design speed and during the part of the Pulse Width Modulated cycle during which power is applied to the motor, the motor takes a huge current trying to get to its design speed.

Early in threads about eZips, one rider reported overheating his motor ridding a long distance on a bike path with his wife on an unassisted bike. He attributed it (correctly I think) to running at partial throttle.

Don

Don, in a way, I understand Currie's thought process with the half-throttle-always-on. They are thinking of people who would just use it like a moped/scooter and not pedal at all. By forcing people to pedal before the motor kicks in, it saves battery life. But it seems like they didn't think it all the way through, for serious commuters like us who expect to do a bit of the work. I'm fine with having to pedal for the motor to work, but not the reverse - the motor is on any time you're pedaling. As an aesthetic thing, I kind of like it to be nice and quiet (no motor) on my pretty country roads when it is flat and I'm just cruising along.

Getting at the jumper is a pain in the ass, but now that I more fully understand how the rack goes together, it might be easier than the first time. So maybe I will try that soon. Considering how well the battery has lasted, I think it would at the very least get me one way to work (I'd bring the charger just in case). Before I tried the bike, I thought there was no possible way it would get me to work (14.2 miles) with the motor on almost all the time.

P.S. - Jeremy, with the Via Rapido bikes in your shop, and testing them out, have you ever seen the mythical yellow light??

Unfortunately, the extent of our 'testing' includes full assembly and tuning on a bike rack. Then we take the bikes around the block a few times to get everything perfect. So we definitely haven't pushed these models far enough to see a drop in power. We usually depend on customers (like yourself) to provide us detailed feedback about performance. Although we have extensive riding experience on a few models, it's impossible for us to get all these bikes out and fully tested through full charge cycles. Just don't have the time! But customers provide us lots of feedback...

Reponding to your comments and donob08's reponses, I agree 100% that the way you operate at half (or no) throttle will definitely increase your range and is the best way to ride these bikes. But typically, people who use power most of the time will get more range by operating in a pedal-assist setting vs. using a throttle. That's why it's impressive to see 30 miles on a throttle - most people wouldn't accomplish that number because they wouldn't pedal as much. For those people, pedal-assist would extend the range significantly.

But I agree, Currie didn't put enough thought into this model. It should have a throttle and an optional pedal-assist setting like most of their bikes. This would allow people to choose the best method for them to operate themselves...

...Reponding to your comments and donob08's reponses, I agree 100% that the way you operate at half (or no) throttle will definitely increase your range and is the best way to ride these bikes. ...

I just wanted to note that sometimes I am at full power, not half. On the steep uphills I've got it twisted all the way.

OK, so... that yellow light... it doesn't so much mean "half" as much as it means "you're screwed." :) After riding another 28.4 mile round trip to work (actually 30 miles because I forgot my gloves at the bike rack and went back), and using the motor more than I normally would because it was hot and I wanted to see the yellow light some day, it still seemed to have plenty of power. So I didn't charge it when I got home, and 4 days later (I wonder how much power is lost as it sits for 4 days...) I went out for another ride. This route has some particularly steep (but not too long) hills. On the way back, at 37.5 miles (remember, this includes my 30 mile commute to & from work days earlier), I saw the yellow light flicker as I was going up a slight uphill while not pedaling (not my normal M.O., but I was purposely using up the battery). I started pedaling, the light went back to green, and I got up the hill. At 38.2 miles, on the next small hill, the yellow light flashed, then the red light, then the whole thing just died. I turned off the switch and a few minutes later tried the motor again, but it only lasted a few seconds before shutting off again. I was 3 miles from home and struggled up a few hills - it really proved to me how much the motor helps!

So it's a bummer that the lights on the throttle are pretty much useless, but I really don't have much to complain about, considering the great battery life. It would just be nice to have some sort of warning. For me, with my riding style, I've got about 35 miles before I have to worry.

Cathy

I'm glad you were able to collect information with no real harm done. Exercise probably did you good :twitchy:. I think it all may be understandable. Currie may very well use the same throttle on the Ecoride as on the eZip, with the same trigger points for switch from Green to yellow. But the nominal 24V LiFePO4 starts with a considerably higher voltage (around 30V for my Ping). So no light change, no light change, ....then finally when the LiFePO has lost quite a few volts the light toggles.

And THEN, soon thereafter the BMS (Battery Management System) in the battery pack says WHOA! the voltage is too low for a LiFePO4. Shut this thing down before it hurts itself.

If I were you, I'd get a Watts Up meter and keep it between the battery and the controller always. Then you will know how many AmpHours have been used. After one (MORE) shut down, with the meter in place, you would know how close you are to HARD work.

Be sure it's on the battery side of any switches or keep paper and pencil handy and keep a running sum. It resets any time the power to IT is cut. Put Watt's Up battery side of Currie switch but remove battery to reset it. You can even measure how many AmpHrs or better WattHrs the charger uses to charge the battery. That tells you how efficient your battery and BMS are. You'll always put more in than you can take out.

That's what I have done and I'm happy with the results. I don't get caught.

Don