Today was a first for me. I cycle commute to work every day and I'm used to encountering half-witted motorists talking on a cell phone and driving along, seemingly oblivious to everything that's going on around them. Today though....... how about a cyclist running a stop sign, right hand on the handlebars, left hand holding a cell phone to their ear? I almost tagged the jack*****. I was driving my wife's car at the time. The stop sign he ran is at a T intersection. I slammed on the brakes as he flew into the intersection, trying to retain control with one hand steering and braking and the other holding his cell phone to his ear. He managed to swerve toward the passenger side of the car, passing between the car and the curb with about 3 feet to spare. Close call for him. If he hadn't swerved as he did, I'd have flattened him. How common is cell phone use, while cycling? Anyone else have experience with this?

How common is cell phone use, while cycling? Anyone else have experience with this?

I've seen it although (and not to stereotype) I usually only see it from amongst the not-so-serious cyclists... the kind that just meander along at about 10MPH. It's too bad that along with their usual lack of bike-handling skills, they would further choose to impair themselves by holding a cellphone up to their ears.

I'll raise my hand as an offender. I do use discretion when I answer as I am not a slave to the call of the ring tones.

I've answered my phone while I ride, but only if it is safe for me to do so. If I'm in traffic at all, I let it ring until I can stop. Only my family knows the number to the cell phone I carry on my rides, and they've been told only call if it's an emergency.

I've done it a couple of times while on a ride. I make sure that I am in a good location before I make a call -- straight road, no traffic, no places for cars or pedestrians to jump out at me.

A funny story: A couple of years ago, the week before the SF Grand Prix, George Hincapie showed up for the Wednesday Noon Ride out of Palo Alto, CA (this ride has been going on for about 40 years every weekday). Wednesday is traditionally the day the rides climbs Old La Honda Road (3.3 miles, 1250 ft). The group is heading up at about 18-minute pace. George's cellphone rings and he calmly answers and has a leisurely call while all the riders around him are huffing and puffing up the hill!

I sometimes answer. but I slow way down and it is not on a busy street. if I need to talk much I stop. hell who can talk well with the wind blowing in the phone?

Today was a first for me. I cycle commute to work every day and I'm used to encountering half-witted motorists talking on a cell phone and driving along, seemingly oblivious to everything that's going on around them. Today though....... how about a cyclist running a stop sign, right hand on the handlebars, left hand holding a cell phone to their ear? I almost tagged the jack*****. I was driving my wife's car at the time. The stop sign he ran is at a T intersection. I slammed on the brakes as he flew into the intersection, trying to retain control with one hand steering and braking and the other holding his cell phone to his ear. He managed to swerve toward the passenger side of the car, passing between the car and the curb with about 3 feet to spare. Close call for him. If he hadn't swerved as he did, I'd have flattened him. How common is cell phone use, while cycling? Anyone else have experience with this?

3 FEET? In NYC, I usually pass by cars with inches to spare if not totally having their mirror brush against the sleeve of my shirt. If I'm just cruising on deserted streets at night in a residential neighborhood below 10mph, I'll hold my cell in my hand but at around 20mph, I use a headset. I usually have the mouthpiece tucked in underneath my strap and chin so wind is no problemo. Talking to my gf makes things interesting on that 30 minutes stretch of deserted road that's on half my route.

90% of the time I stop, but on the rare occasion, like slowly pedaling to a nice trail along a hiking path or when circling a parking lot on my bmx bike....otherwise if I'm even close to a road there's no chance....besides like steveknight said....who can talk with the wind blowing....lol

thats what chrome bags, radio holsters, and speakerphone are for.

My phone has caller profiles which can be set to respond to certain caller groups which work with caller-ID to allow me to classify incoming calls. When I go biking, I set my phone to a profile whereby only certain caller groups can actually cause the phone to ring (everyone else goes to voicemail). These groups include my wife and a VIP group. Lately, I have my company's VP of engineering's home phone classified in the VIP group because I have been waiting for some important news from him concerning my job status. I was on a ride a couple of weeks ago pushing a nice 25MPH pace when I heard the phone go off. I pulled over to the side of the road, stopped and answered, mildly annoyed that I had to break my pace to do it. It was the VP of engineering but unfortunately it wasn't to deliver the news I was waiting for. He instead was asking for some urgent information and was wondering if I could get it to him before Monday morning. I told him I'd get him what he needed by that evening, hung up and resumed riding, eventually pushing back to my original pace. The annoyance which was now higher helped motivate me into getting back up to speed though.

I always ride with my cell phone. I have taken calls on a ride, but inevitably I stop to talk. On one group ride (I don't do many of those), I was dropped very badly by the group when I answered the call and stopped. I completed the ride, but couldn't get back with the group. On other occasions, I was called on business (it's a business phone) and was able to attend to the situations.

On one ride about two years ago, when I ended up in the hospital, my first call out was on my radio (Nextel radio/phone) to our Security staff, whom I supervise. I asked them to advise my wife of my accident; I was still laying down in the ER at the time, and they has just shown me the pieces of my helmet that saved my life and told me that my MRI (which I did not remember) test was normal.

John

I always carry a cell phone, to which only 4 people have the number.

But, I never answer while moving. I always stop and answer - wouldn't consider riding and talking at the same time.

Howver, I do see folks talking while riding, and it pretty much drives me nuts. It is worse than passing a ped with earphones on - you just have no clue whether or not they are paying attention to you. So, it slows me down in a defensive maneuver, and I don't appreciate it.

Incidentally, around here SUV's with women drivers almost always have a cell phone to the ear of the lady. Anyone else notice the same thing - it is like an epidemic? Again you have to go into a defensive maneuver, as you have absolutely no clue whether or not they are paying attention to the road - and generally they are not!

On one ride about two years ago, when I ended up in the hospital, my first call out was on my radio (Nextel radio/phone) to our Security staff, whom I supervise. I asked them to advise my wife of my accident; I was still laying down in the ER at the time, and they has just shown me the pieces of my helmet that saved my life and told me that my MRI (which I did not remember) test was normal.

John

That, I can see using a cell phone for. Stopping the ride to answer makes sense too. But just chatting with a gf or cause someone just wants to chat, give me a break. Don't get me wrong, it's not just while biking that I have a problem with that. I see people chatting on cell phones all the time. Sometimes I hear part of a conversation that obviously could have waited for a more private time. People will start to talk to you and then answer a call on their cell phones and then make you wait for them to finish!
In that instance cell use equals rudeness.
All this reminds of me of my youth, growing up with about 8 people on a party line. Some people would talk on the phone for hours interferring with their neighbors who wanted to use the phone. Sigh.
The point is three things.
1. When I ride it's for relaxation, talking to someone or expecting someone's call isn't part of that.
2. If someone really wants to get ahold of you, they can later, so a cell phone isn't needed.
3. Face to face communication is much better than talking on a phone, cause it's hard to tell just what kind of reaction your getting if you can't observe them.

2. If someone really wants to get ahold of you, they can later, so a cell phone isn't needed.
3. Face to face communication is much better than talking on a phone, cause it's hard to tell just what kind of reaction your getting if you can't observe them.

Thank god you're not posting to a CB radio or amateur ham radio forum.

Biking is biking, I have my zen meditation moments, I have my push all out moments, I have my talk to people while I'm doing it moments, I also have my fall asleep halfway into a ride moments.
If biking's become a zen like form of separation from society that brings you nirvana then you're probably riding with your wheels floating 2" off the ground.
Otherwise, to each their own.

Ok folks, this one is simple.

It takes but a few seconds to stop before you answer the call.

When cycling, you need to keep your attention on what is around you at all times.

If you miss the call, the phone will tell you who called so you can call them right back.

Don't phone and ride. Don't phone and drive.

WAH! *goes into my corner*

Ok folks, this one is simple.

It takes but a few seconds to stop before you answer the call.

When cycling, you need to keep your attention on what is around you at all times.

If you miss the call, the phone will tell you who called so you can call them right back.

Don't phone and ride. Don't phone and drive.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

In my view, about the only things that mix with cell/mobile phones are a coating of kerosine, and a lit match. Preferably at the same time.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

In my view, about the only things that mix with cell/mobile phones are a coating of kerosine, and a lit match. Preferably at the same time.
:roflmao:

Concerning SUVs and ladies with cell phones, yes we have the same problem here, except here many of the men in SUVs use the cell phone too.

Thank god you're not posting to a CB radio or amateur ham radio forum.



About ten years ago, I investigated a fatal log truck accident where the driver simply drove off a logging road, making no attempt to break. We couldn't figure out what had happened, until the log trucking company pulled the cab top out off the seat (it was crushed down after having rolled about 1000 feet down the hill). They looked at the steering wheel, and the mike cord of the CB radio (all log trucks are equipped with CBs) was wrapped around the steering wheel. This fellow was on the radio with his girl friend, when he had to negotiate a turn in the road. He dropped the mike, and made the turn. Unfortunately, he dropped the mike through the steering wheel, and as he turned it wrapped around the wheel. Apparently, he then tried to untangle the cord, and when he looked up he was going over the edge at the next turn. It was a real tragedy.

John

I usually look to see whos calling. If it's important, I'll pull over and call them back...if not it gets ignored (usually my roomate, who always asks me to pick him up either beer, or something else that he could walk a block for...I jsut ignore his ass and tell him i couldnt hear the phone when I get there).

When driving, ALL calls get ignored...I won't even touch the phone. This has aggravated my boss a few times, but I told him...if i am required to answer a phone while driving...would they be willing to cover any legal suits that whould happen if i was to wreck as a result...usually he answers with a "no, but"...usually he gets the idea mid sentence and shuts up....pity this talk happened every other week...but oh well...he was the one to have two crashes while on the phone, not me.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who talks on the phone wile operating a vehicle needs smacked upside the head a few times. There is a time and place for everything, and if your moving at all, get to a safe spot before talking...I don't care how safe you think you are, just do it.

I have huge rants over cell phone users...Given I'm "Mr. Make it quick damnit" when I'm on the cell. i hate using the thing, it makes me feel like a tool using it. Given I love using the wireless internet features...but I hate talking on it outside of my own home. I guess I jsut learned the time and place for everything, and using a phone outside of home was usually a very short and to the point affair.

I would never talk to my cell phone while riding. I stop, then talk. That also helps keeping the calls short, with me eager to hit the road again and everything :). If I am not in the mood for stopping, I'll just put the phone in silent mode so, after my ride, I can check unanswered calls without having to check voice mail. Sometimes I use caller profile grouping.

Your signalling, balance and ability to steer will all suffer from having one of your hands glued to your head. Your braking sucks, unless you ride a fixie or have a coaster brake. The loss of concentration will be unavoidable. And at least around here, people who talk and ride seem to be eager to ignore many rules of traffic, too, e.g. riding (slowly) on sidewalk, not wearing a helmet etc. Two words describe them: "organ" and "donor".

--J

tyops

I know to be fair, cell phones have their place in emergencies. Could be vital even ..But, I still have a societal hatred of them..
Really, I am Not kidding you..I was at the movies the other night to see "Saved."
Went into the john...Someone had to have been talking on the cell phone while 'in the stall." Or else he was talking to himself in an extended conversation..
No one else was in the rest room...
So, I unnecessarily used the next stall and flushed three times.
I can be a jerk when egged on.

I know to be fair, cell phones have their place in emergencies.

Yeah, but all my emergencies seem to happen in places that get no reception anyway.

Another thing I have to ask, in these days of messagebank and so on, are "missed calls" really all that significant anymore?

Don't have one. don't need one, won't use one
What ever happened to the idea of Privacy and invasion of?
To be serious, how many REALLY serious conversations have you been forced to overhear?
"HELLO? HELLO? I can't hear you. Oh yeh I'm at Borders/Barnes an Noble, yeh just hangin, no nothing important here, just reading the free mags an books, and checking the talent wandering around"
To irritate the callee I wander up VERY close forcing them to move off or if sitting I'll start talking to myself as loudly as they are talking and forcing them to move off
Or I'll say loudly. I sure am glad I can afford office staff to answer my phone calls, that one is for the dudes who are telling one and all within hearing distance of the biz matters they are doing in our hearing range, or if I am in a REALLY *****y mood I'll start to be part of the conversation
Fones and fonees are a part of life as are those who run stop lites and stop signs and otherwise irritate us, I pay attention to my li'l world and ignore the rest to the best of my ability, makes for fewer headaches, ulcers, and hi blood preasure

Couldn't agree more. Let's face it, the only thing separating mobile phone users from the certifiably insane is the assumption that somebody is listening to them.

OK, I'll bite. Cell phones per se are not good or bad, they're just phones. The way some people use their cell phones is the issue.

My only phone is a mobile. I need it in my work, and having it as my only phone is cheaper than having a landline too. Service coverage here is 100% for all intents and purposes (perhaps excluding nuclear fallout shelters or the like). Learn the features (silent mode, ring tones / beeps in general, off-switch, incoming call profile, text messaging), use a bit of your common sense and you will certainly be able to use it in a civilized way, not disturbing anyone or "invading their privacy". Sheesh.

--J

I always carry a cell phone, to which only 4 people have the number.

But, I never answer while moving. I always stop and answer - wouldn't consider riding and talking at the same time.



I do the same thing. I carry a phone always, but stop to use it.

3 FEET? In NYC, I usually pass by cars with inches to spare if not totally having their mirror brush against the sleeve of my shirt.

This guy just got lucky. One handed, swerving wildly because he saw he was going to get smoked. He barely kept the bike under control and was fortunate enough to miss the car.

About ten years ago, I investigated a fatal log truck accident where the driver simply drove off a logging road, making no attempt to break. We couldn't figure out what had happened, until the log trucking company pulled the cab top out off the seat (it was crushed down after having rolled about 1000 feet down the hill). They looked at the steering wheel, and the mike cord of the CB radio (all log trucks are equipped with CBs) was wrapped around the steering wheel. This fellow was on the radio with his girl friend, when he had to negotiate a turn in the road. He dropped the mike, and made the turn. Unfortunately, he dropped the mike through the steering wheel, and as he turned it wrapped around the wheel. Apparently, he then tried to untangle the cord, and when he looked up he was going over the edge at the next turn. It was a real tragedy.
John

Honestly, I appreciate your concern but citing a freak 1 in a million accident is probably not the best way to prove a point. Yes I know, tragic, but how many CB radio cord steering lock (CBRCSL) accidents do we have in this country? I can safely assume that more people die each year tripping on the sidewalk because they were talking to their friends and not looking where they're going. This doesn't mean we should all walk around dead silent in fear all our lives.
How about *gasp* riding with a riding partner and talking to them? When I'm on my headset, I'm free to scan forward and look around 100% of the time. 100% of the time when I see people with riding partners, they're always taking their eyes off the road to look at their partners when they talk or take their handle bars off to gesture. Bike messengers shouldn't be allowed to take their hands off the handle bar to answer a radio call then either. Depending on how you look at it, things sort of turn into a gray area.

This guy just got lucky. One handed, swerving wildly because he saw he was going to get smoked. He barely kept the bike under control and was fortunate enough to miss the car.

Well actually that should've been worded "cars usually pass by me with less than an inch to spare." Personally I try to stay as far away from cars as possible.

I am in the I hate em crowd ;)

At an airport once this idiot was next to me on his lap top and phone and actually gave out his username and pin for all to hear. I cant tell you how tempted I was to hack his account ;)

I really hate waiting to buy groceries and listining to someone elses boy girl problems you know shut up!

And yes I was almost hit by a jerk in an suv on a phone. Shut up and drive.

I don't even call my friend Tr... anymoore because it's so freekin an...... oy .. ing wh...en the ph........one con....ver ...sation goes ..li...ke this. :)

having said that they have prooved to be a valuable safety device it's probably more the people that use them I hate. Like anything it can and will be abused.

Can you tell I have'nt had my coffee yet ;)

Me too..So far don't have one and don't plan to.

You people don't need cell phones. My 2 meter walkie talkie gets better coverage than any cell phone with just one local repeater. Cell phones for emergencies? I certainly wouldn't count on it during bad weather. Go out and get your (no-code) Technician Class license.

You people don't need cell phones. My 2 meter walkie talkie gets better coverage than any cell phone with just one local repeater. Cell phones for emergencies? I certainly wouldn't count on it during bad weather. Go out and get your (no-code) Technician Class license.

so you call long distance to anyone with that radio? and like there are enough bands for everyone to use.

Today though....... how about a cyclist running a stop sign, right hand on the handlebars, left hand holding a cell phone to their ear? I almost tagged the jack*****. I was driving my wife's car at the time.

This cyclist most likely runs through stop signs, cell phone or no cell phone.....

There are an infinite number of frequencies you can use (assuming you have a license and radio that allow you to). Unfortunately Amateur Radio is losing a lot of frequencies to commercial companies and devices, such as cell phones. Unless more people get interested in ham radio, it'll die out.

It's a good thing that needs to be promoted. Believe it or not volunteer ham radio operators are probably helping with communications of your bicycle race. Check out http://www.arrl.org/ for loads of information. Also http://www.lafetra.com/bmha/default.htm is pretty interesting for radio operators that are mobile on bicycle. :)

so you call long distance to anyone with that radio? and like there are enough bands for everyone to use.

I have a cell phone and take it on my commute. I've used it to call work when I had a flat and my chain decided to leave this world. When I go for other rides I take it as well but stop and pull of the road on to the sidewalk when making or receiving a call. Except once when I answered and started yaking away, forgeting for a second that I was on my fixed gear. Tried to coast, now I always stop.

I've only ever answered my cell phone once while riding. I continued riding while I was on the straight road and then stopped and pulled over when I came to the first intersection.

I ride from Brooklyn to lower Manhattan five days a week, and I'd have to say that it drives me bats to see people on mobiles on my route...in the 12 miles or so of each leg, there's only 2 miles or so that are in the park, the rest is busy city streets or overcrowded bike paths. It makes me cringe to see riders on phones, because we've already got the deck stacked against us in this town, and anything that makes you as a rider even slightly less attentive is not a good idea.
Slightly off topic, headphones/ipods/walkmen drive me crazy as well. I'll come up behind someone, move to pass on the left, verbally warn them of my presence and then have to back off because they're swaying left to right in time with whatever they're listening to on their headphones. Superinconsiderate.

I answer my phone when I am on a ride but only if I'm on the pedestrian bike path. You're crazy if you try to answer it on the side of the road. Stopping on the side of the road is a bad idea. If I'm on the road I'll wait until I can stop in a parking lot or subdivision entrance to take the call.

My job used to require me to carry a cell phone after hours and over the weekend one week every six months or so (they've since outsourced this function, thankfully). I used my headset with it, to avoid having a rather powerful radio station (many times moreso than a cordless land-line phone) right next to what Woody Allen called "my second favorite organ" (my brain). We had a tandem ride the last weekend I had the phone. I just put the headset on and put the phone in my jersey pocket. Set it to "any button answer", so that if it rang, my stoker could just press on it thru the jersey.

I've used hands-free phones while riding a bike and driving a car; I find it no less distracting than carrying on a direct conversation (the person on the other end of the line needs to know what it means when you say "stand by"). I briefly used a hand-held cell phone while driving a rented van once; the experience lasted about 45 seconds and scared the hell out of me. Between having a hand tied up, and having something next to my face, playing havoc with my peripheral vision, I felt utterly distracted. I would think it would be even moreso riding a bike, given how much you use both hands.

I tried it once, while I was on a bike/pedestrian bridge. I stopped, pulled the phone out of my bag, and tried to bike and talk. Honestly, I'm a competent biker; but I couldn't bike, hold the phone and actually be engaged in a conversation at the same time...I can't even imagine trying to do so in traffic.

Bike laws here prohibit biking & listing to headphones; I don't see how biking & cell phones are really any different, safety-wise if not legally.

Today was a first for me. I cycle commute to work every day and I'm used to encountering half-witted motorists talking on a cell phone and driving along, seemingly oblivious to everything that's going on around them. Today though....... how about a cyclist running a stop sign, right hand on the handlebars, left hand holding a cell phone to their ear? I almost tagged the jack*****. I was driving my wife's car at the time. The stop sign he ran is at a T intersection. I slammed on the brakes as he flew into the intersection, trying to retain control with one hand steering and braking and the other holding his cell phone to his ear. He managed to swerve toward the passenger side of the car, passing between the car and the curb with about 3 feet to spare. Close call for him. If he hadn't swerved as he did, I'd have flattened him. How common is cell phone use, while cycling? Anyone else have experience with this?

Luckily, i don't own a cell phone.

Today in the morning paper I saw an article about a 75 year old Palm City man who was hit on his bike. The cause, he was on his cell phone and rode in front of a car according to the FHP trooper. He was flown to a W. Palm Beach trauma center and as far as I know is still alive.

Phones and bikes don't mix.

i would have to agree phones and bikes don't mix. i always cary a phone while riding for saftey and emergency purposes. however when my phone rings i definatly stop and get off my bike before answering it. even traveling down a straight road some one could easily pull out on you form a hidden enterance or drive way. if you happen to live in a place like i do you allways have to be on the look out for ignorant sob's trying to run you off the road and i don't know about you but it is pretty hard to make quick manuvers while riding with one hand.

I ride from Brooklyn to lower Manhattan five days a week, and I'd have to say that it drives me bats to see people on mobiles on my route...in the 12 miles or so of each leg, there's only 2 miles or so that are in the park, the rest is busy city streets or overcrowded bike paths. It makes me cringe to see riders on phones, because we've already got the deck stacked against us in this town, and anything that makes you as a rider even slightly less attentive is not a good idea.

I use a headset and as madpoque says, it's no different from having a direct conversation with someone while riding. Though I find it actually LESS distracting because I'm not obligated to look at them or make gestures or facial emotions.

Don't have one. don't need one, won't use one
What ever happened to the idea of Privacy and invasion of?
To be serious, how many REALLY serious conversations have you been forced to overhear?
"HELLO? HELLO? I can't hear you. Oh yeh I'm at Borders/Barnes an Noble, yeh just hangin, no nothing important here, just reading the free mags an books, and checking the talent wandering around"
To irritate the callee I wander up VERY close forcing them to move off or if sitting I'll start talking to myself as loudly as they are talking and forcing them to move off
Or I'll say loudly. I sure am glad I can afford office staff to answer my phone calls, that one is for the dudes who are telling one and all within hearing distance of the biz matters they are doing in our hearing range, or if I am in a REALLY *****y mood I'll start to be part of the conversation
Fones and fonees are a part of life as are those who run stop lites and stop signs and otherwise irritate us, I pay attention to my li'l world and ignore the rest to the best of my ability, makes for fewer headaches, ulcers, and hi blood preasure


This reminds me of a thread on another forum about what to do when people near you are always on the phone, like in restaurants, and seem to want YOU to be quiet. I used the funniest response yesterday when another guy in the restroom at work indicated quietly that someone in a stall was talking on their cell phone. I said VERY loudly; "But Officer, she said she was eighteen"!!!!!!!!!!!! The other guy cracked up.

I tried it once, while I was on a bike/pedestrian bridge. I stopped, pulled the phone out of my bag, and tried to bike and talk. Honestly, I'm a competent biker; but I couldn't bike, hold the phone and actually be engaged in a conversation at the same time...I can't even imagine trying to do so in traffic.
Bike laws here prohibit biking & listing to headphones; I don't see how biking & cell phones are really any different, safety-wise if not legally.

In NYC, you're allowed to have an ear piece in 1 ear. Biking and holding a phone should be just like holding a water bottle. A while ago, I saw a messenger going through midtown traffic eating a hotdog in one hand and holding a can of soda in the other. Also saw a messenger once pull in front of a car doing about 15 mph going down broadway, take his hands off the handle bar, pull up the lock around him, pull his pants down to moon the driver, proceeded to smack his ass cheek, then pull his pants back up. Now that's talent. ;)

Biking and holding a phone should be just like holding a water bottle.

For how long do you hold a water bottle?

I only hold a water bottle for a few seconds, and only when it is as safe as I can get it, or I stop to drink.

Most folks I see on cell phones talk for extensive periods of time - you could drink several water bottles in that time!

Also, I don't talk to a water bottle, have to process what I am saying, and don't listen to what it says and process that, all the while losing concentration on what I am supposed to be doing - biking!

For how long do you hold a water bottle?
I only hold a water bottle for a few seconds, and only when it is as safe as I can get it, or I stop to drink.
Most folks I see on cell phones talk for extensive periods of time - you could drink several water bottles in that time!
Also, I don't talk to a water bottle, have to process what I am saying, and don't listen to what it says and process that, all the while losing concentration on what I am supposed to be doing - biking!

If I'm in a long annoying conversation, I use a headset. Otherwise, it's just to say, "hey baby, yeah i'm in the park be home in 20 min, love you, bye" if I have to whip it out, doesn't take that long. Sometimes I WILL just talk to my water bottle. :p

"What's that, polar bottle? You're getting warm? Well I better drink you quickly then... *gulp gulp*"