General Cycling Discussion - Rant - f%#@king unrestrained dogs

This has been brewing for a while but finally this mornings incident has compelled me to say something. This morning on my commute to work I came within inches of doing serious injury to both myself, my bike and less importantly a dog as it ran in front of me while I was sailing along at approx 30km/h. This woman was out walking her dog without a lead attached and the dog, being a dog, was just wandering all over the bike path (it is a shared pedestrian path as well but "share" is supposed to have meaning for both parties). I locked up the brakes and skidded sideways on the semi-wet path, the dog just managing to move out of the way at the very last instant allowing me to ease off on the brakes and regain some sort of control over the bike again. The woman made no attempt to call her dog or restrain in in any way either before, during or after the event. No apology from her either. Not a word.

I didn't bother to stop because I could tell by her ignorance that there was nothing to be gained and I would probably just get into a pointless argument with her over the incident. But as I rode off I couldn't resist telling her to put the dog on a lead. Still no acknowledgement from her.

If she has no respect or worry for me she should at least have some for the dog and keep it under control. Bike and rider meeting dog at 30km/h could cause some serious injuries.

I see unrestrained dogs being walked all the time on the paths, in fact I have taken to going a different way home to avoid an area where there are a lot of these. THis is the closest call I've had to date though.

Two words: pepper spray

Another bunch of letters: H&K MP-5

For the owners or the dogs?!

Whichever you prefer, really. Legally, it seems to be advantageous for you to leave the owner alive, if somewhat maimed.

Falchoon, I collected a dog a few weeks ago and received a concussion, lots of bruising and a swollen knee, and have only just ridden today for the first time since May 27th. The dog ran out of an open driveway gate, the lady was apologetic at the time, yet 1 week later and the gate was wide open again, for her dumb Great Dane to run onto the road. I have called the council and asked them to fine her. Some people are senseless, selfish bastards. Good thing you missed the dog.

CHEERS.

Mark

If she has no respect or worry for me she should at least have some for the dog and keep it under control. Bike and rider meeting dog at 30km/h could cause some serious injuries.

I see unrestrained dogs being walked all the time on the paths, in fact I have taken to going a different way home to avoid an area where there are a lot of these. THis is the closest call I've had to date though.

This is actually one of the reasons I point blank avoid the paths and stick with the traffic. I don't see too many dogs on Bundall road (4-8 lanes of wall to wall traffic). As far as unrestrained dogs goes, isn't there supposed to be a law against unrestrained dogs except in certain areas? I know there is around here. Not that anyone around here follows the law.

Two words: pepper spray

For the owners. It's not the dog's fault.

I avoid 'bike paths' as much as possible too. I find that a dog on a leash is worse if it it one of those adjustable length leashes. Then basically you have this 20ft garote crossing all and every which way across the trail. Also if I choose to take the path and approach walkers I've learned to pass them just a little faster then they are walking.

One word................ LAWYER!

Dogs have been a real head ache for me lately as well. It has been so bad that it has forced me to reconsider my route several times. One thing you must have is this product. (http://www.safetyrus.com/dog-pepper-spray.html)

I haven't left home without it on the bike in over 6 months. I have had to use it twice so far. Within the confines of most cities there are laws outlawing loose dogs so in town I really don't have too much trouble. I have had a similar problem with people walking unrestrained dogs on our local path. The way to handle this is simple, tell the owners they are breaking the law!!!!

I encountered a dumb girl on the multi use path one day last winter. She had 3 dogs and they all made a direct run at me while she stood there looking bewildered. The little white dog had chased me before ( this wasn't my first encounter with her) and he was having a go at my pedals.

After I got clear of the dogs, i stopped and screamed at the top of my lungs, "get your f'ing dogs on a leash!!! I haven't seen her since. These and other encounters with stupid pededstrians has caused me to avoid the walking/biking trails and also opt for the road or for the country.

The problem with riding on gravel roads out in the county is that there are no leash laws out there. The dogs can legally roam. The law does say that when they are not on their property, you have a right to even kill them if you feel that threatened. This is where the k9 muzzle comes in handy. This stuff works.

THe first time i had to use it was a few weeks ago. There was a lab and some other big mixed dog standing in the middle of the road one early morning. We were out somewhat in the middle of nowhere but there were probably 6 houses in the area. The dogs decided that the road was theirs and they didn't want me to go down it. THe lab went for my foot/pedal and growled. I grabbed my K9 muzzle off of my waist and prepared for the worst. Hearing the growl the other dog joined in. THey both here having a go at my left pedal. At this time I considered myself threatened.

I aimed the spray at the dogs, they were within inches of each other and my bike, and gave one short burst of spray. Instantly the dogs melted away. I heard a quick yelp, and they were running for home with their tails between their legs. I felt guilty after having done it because it obviously had an effect but i still feel justified in having done so.

Now when I go by that house the dogs just sit in the yard and watch me. I know that this is at least one house i no longer have to worry about as these dogs will NEVER chase me again. Unfortunately i had to train them since their owners didn't. At least maybe now they will live another day and so will I. The spray did no permanent damage and is supposed to wear off in a matter of minutes. I think it is the better than kicking, hitting or shooting a dog.

I plan to make this a part of my normal biking attire for the forseeable future. It is a great comfort.

It's a little off the subject, but speaking of dumb animals, I had a first yestarday. A small groundhog darted into my front wheel and got stuck in my spokes! I was going slowly down a steep hill. Luckily it was small enough to pass through the front fork (several times) without making me endo. The rodent was a little worse for the wear, but I came out okay. A small dog in my spokes would have been a lot worse and I would have felt bad about the casualty.

i personally just get angry and start chasing them. especially when they chase me. just yesterday i cahsed this stupid rotweiler down the street. don't be afraid to chase a big dog. just make sure you yell ferociously. if the walker of the dog can't control the dog why should you be able to control your sudden outbursts?

Last week i road by an old lady with a dirty ass dog on a very long leash and as i went by she let it go for me until the leash stopped. She just looked at me with a big smile as the dog went for my foot,stopped as the mouth was opening about a foot from mine. Made her day.

On Saturday, day one of a 600K brevet (Westfield MA to Saratoga NY and back) one of the riders hit a dachshund, or as commonly refered to "A hot dog". Did an endo breaking two ribs. Don't have all the details but it sure ruins a ride.

"Flexi" leashes are the worst and should be outlawed, IMO. They give dumbass owners (and there are a BUNCH of those) the impression that their dog is "under control" (because it's on a leash) when - in fact - the dog might as well be running loose.

I'm a dog lover and want to make that very clear up front. Still, I can relate to many of the stories above. I have yet to crash as a result of a dog, but it's been close. The thing that really angers me is how the owner just stands there with a "duh" look on his/her face!

When I encounter a dog now, I always unclip a shoe and am ready to put a foot down. It's too bad more dog owners aren't responsible, but I guess it goes with the territory. The spray idea is a good one for truly aggressive/dangerous dogs...

Dogs are serious business! I had a dog catch me by surprise, it ran into my back wheel at full speed, I wobbled twice and went down at 16mph. Just minor knee scrapes, but I couldn't kneel for two weeks. He hit my rear rack support arm otherwise he would have gone right thru my wheel.
Thankfully, the owner came out and I semi-politely took her head off. No dogs in sight since then.

I got one of those sprays a couple of weeks ago. I haven't had to use it yet, but I've had a few close calls. Dogs often start chasing me, but so far I've been successful scaring them off by immediately stopping, jumping off the back and yell at them.

Falchoon, I collected a dog a few weeks ago and received a concussion, lots of bruising and a swollen knee, and have only just ridden today for the first time since June 27th. The dog ran out of an open driveway gate, the lady was apologetic at the time, yet 1 week later and the gate was wide open again, for her dumb Great Dane to run onto the road. I have called the council and asked them to fine her. Some people are senseless, selfish bastards. Good thing you missed the dog.

CHEERS.

Mark

Mark is so fast, now that he is recovered, that he rode back in time to share this with us. :)

Mark is so fast, now that he is recovered, that he rode back in time to share this with us. :)


Note the concussion. :p

When a dog is on a leash and attacks why not head for the owner crash into he or she and say. "sorry your dog attacked me and I just lost control, so very very sorry"

I used to get chased by a dog every other ride. Remember American Flyers and the sprint training session, that's how my rides were, big gear, out of the saddle, sprinting like crazy ......I never lost my shoe though. One day I was on a climb and this dog came running up along side me :mad: ......so just squirted water on it's nose and that seem to do the trick..phew, now I've found a great route with no dogs.

I don't mind the dogs that will run along side of you just for fun. For safe measure, I'll sprint. Besides peace of mind, it is fun to see how fast the dog can run. The ones that scare me are the ones that charge or get in the way.

I have one rule, don't swerve to avoid an animal. Of course, if it was a big animal, like a deer, I'm going to swerve. However, I have grazed a squirrel, nearly hit a couple squirrels, came within a foot of a groundhog this past Saturday, and have had my fair share of run-ins with dogs (no cats yet). My "no swerving" policy has so far led to zero accidents. In all honesty, I would feel like crap if I killed a dog. However, unless it is a chihuahua or newborn puppy, I'm sure the dog will take me out.

Don't fault the dog. It sounds like the owner is somewhat uncourteous.

I didn't bother to stop because I could tell by her ignorance that there was nothing to be gained and I would probably just get into a pointless argument with her over the incident. But as I rode off I couldn't resist telling her to put the dog on a lead. Still no acknowledgement from her.


I'm glad you told the woman to put her dog on a leash.
Dogs are a constant problem when I ride in the country. I now carry "Halt" and while no one loves dogs more than I do, I'm willing to use it to avoid injuring myself.
As for the dog owners, I don't get into a pointless argument, as that implies that there's a debateable issue. There's no room for debate; they need to be told to keep their dogs under control. They may not listen, but if we just let it go, there's absolutely no incentive for them to do so. If they hear from enough cyclists (or get slapped w/a lawsuit or two) there's at least a chance they will respond, if only to avoid a hassle.

Mark is so fast, now that he is recovered, that he rode back in time to share this with us. :)


Note the concussion. :p


Thanks guys, I have fixed the date. I must have banged my head heard as this whole month has been a bit of a blur. BLOODY DOGS.

Years ago a neighbor owned a generally well behaved Border Collie that had become a dedicated escape artist/car chaser. The little guy was on borrowed time unless we could train him out of it. It took about 2 weeks of daily drive by in my pickup with a big pile of empty cans & 1 or more chuckers in the bed. Everytime Charlie ran at us, he got a barrage of cans. Eventually he lost all interest in chasing cars. Halt sounds like it would be very effective.

I have to ask why so many people here try to outrun dogs all the time? Sure, I'll do it if I've got a gap on them, but if they're right on my wheel, it seems to be asking for trouble. Dogs generally try to "vector" you, meaning they will cut a corner and try to move across in front of you. If they pull off this move while you're putting on a sprint, it means trouble.

If I'm in that situation, I stop and get off the bike. For one thing, I can use the bike to block any advances by the dog (which I haven't needed to do yet, as they always seem to lose interest the instant I stop). It's also the most potent weapon I have in a confrontation, and generally eliminates the risk of falling from the bike and laying prone on the ground for dog, owner or whomever else to have a crack at me.

I had a win today! I passed the same woman and same dog on my ride to work this morning and she was holding it by the collar to stop it wandering in front of me. She still wouldn't look me in the eye though or actually put the thing on a leash but it's a start...

I had an encounter today with an animal-how do you spell it in English? I think it is called a skunque. Any way, I decided it was better to avoid confrontation with this animal.

Hmm...I've been thinking...dog whistle + compressed air can = something that would likely make an aggressive dog's ears hurt.

I've had very few aggressive dog incidents though...mostly just curious or friendly enough to be irritating....had a loose dog sneak up on me and nearly tackle me, licking my arm....that was just weird. a nice solid flick on the nose, a pat on the head and a "go home" later...i was on my way. Had no clue where the owner was, but he seemed to understand what eitherr go home or go meant...

The other was just some dog that wanted to sniff around. I really don't mind those guys so long as tehy stay out of my way and spokes...I really don't want to see anything get hurt.

I had a dog try to attack me for the first time recently. It just came bolting out of the bushes next to the road and into my path, barking with an angry look on its face. I managed to stop safely, but then when the owner follows it out, they just yelled at it and walked away without even looking at me (they saw what happened).

If something like that happens and the owner is genuinely sorry then I don't really mind so much, but when they don't even pretend to be sorry then I get pissed off.

The dogs that run next to you are pretty good though... It's surprising how fast some dogs can run.

My last encounter with a dog was actually quite funny..

I was out on one of my hill routes.. this particular hill climbs at about 8-10% for a good mile, and at the very end, ramps up to about 18% for a couple hundred feet.

Well, by the time I got to the steep part, I was pretty well spent, and was climbing the last steep part EXTREMELY slow.. all of the sudden I hear this huffing and puffing, and then barking and growling behind me. I glance back, and see a pit-bull gaining on me.. I try to pedal harder, but just cant do it.. then I start to think "There was something just not right about how that dog was running," so I turn back around, and realize it 1) is gaining on me, 2) only has 3 legs!!! It was like something out of a comedy movie.. I'm pedaling as hard as my tired legs will let me, and a 3-legged pit-bull is gaining on me.. luckily I reached the top of the hill, and the dog turned around, but it was hard not to break out laughing...

My last encounter with a dog was actually quite funny..

I was out on one of my hill routes.. this particular hill climbs at about 8-10% for a good mile, and at the very end, ramps up to about 18% for a couple hundred feet.

Well, by the time I got to the steep part, I was pretty well spent, and was climbing the last steep part EXTREMELY slow.. all of the sudden I hear this huffing and puffing, and then barking and growling behind me. I glance back, and see a pit-bull gaining on me.. I try to pedal harder, but just cant do it.. then I start to think "There was something just not right about how that dog was running," so I turn back around, and realize it 1) is gaining on me, 2) only has 3 legs!!! It was like something out of a comedy movie.. I'm pedaling as hard as my tired legs will let me, and a 3-legged pit-bull is gaining on me.. luckily I reached the top of the hill, and the dog turned around, but it was hard not to break out laughing...
Problem is, he probably had more than 3 teeth.
One of James Herriot's books mentions a dog that was down to two legs. As if this weren't enough, the legs weren't catty-corner, but on the same side. Somehow the dog managed to walk and run.. I'd pay a few bucks to see that.

One time I was riding down an alley and this BIG dog was loose. It's owner was just coming outside as the dog ran at me. Now, I'm not stupid, I stopped and got up. (Didn't get off the bike.) And I'm a 6'1 giant, and the dog still didn't stop. He got his mouth around my ankle as the lady yelled.

He ran away, and I just started riding again. Luckily he got my shoe and not my actual ankle. But the lady didn't even care. I could have pressed charges.

metal zefal to the ol noggin takes em down every time and the yipe that comes with is pure pleasure. and im a dog lover. remember give it everything you got . bent many pumps , but hey better that then me.

Dogs are supposed to be unrestrained but also trained. A great dane is a frightening opponent tho, because they're more like small horses. But most importantly you should be going slowly enough to be able to stop at unsuspected obstacles. A dog is a lot like a small child in that it is unpredictable, thoughtless and often hard to handle; but essentially it should be as free as possible. You wouldn't expect us to have our children on a lead. For me, this is the same thing.

You wouldn't expect us to have our children on a lead.

I wouldn't expect it because I'm cynical. However, I would definitely prefer it if they were!

I almost tripped over on one of the little grommets while out shopping last weekend when he collided with my feet from behind (yeah, I know, I was watching where I was going, I'm a bad boy like that). It was only my deft footwork that prevented injury to one or both of us. His fat turd parents didn't do a thing. I know what I should have done -- I should have called the father a stupid fat f*ck who's wife was only with him because she couldn't pick up anyone else, then I would have run like buggery! He would have either had to let the insult slide, or given himself a coronary trying to chase me!

Dogs are supposed to be unrestrained but also trained. Dunno what the law is in Japan, but in virtually every jurisdiction in the US, dogs are required by law to be restrained when off their owner's property.



A dog is a lot like a small child in that it is unpredictable, thoughtless and often hard to handle; but essentially it should be as free as possible. You wouldn't expect us to have our children on a lead. For me, this is the same thing. A dog can inflict astronomically more serious injury than a small child can.

I ran out of spare tubes a few weeks ago, but I decided to chance it and ride a few days without any, of course, two days later, I blew my tire on a broken bottle someone threw out their car window. No big deal I figured, it was a nice day, and about a 2 mile walk to a pay phone to call up my dad for ride. So I'm pushing my bike along the sidewalk next to a really busy road heading toward the phone, when I see a big black lab that someone let out of their yard wandering around on the sidewalk and into the road in the distance. My first, and very stupid reaction, was that the poor dog is going to get hit by a car if he's out there much longer, so I walked up to him thinking I could lead him down onto this little private road that runs alongside the busy one, bad idea. I get up a couple feet from him, and he starts growling and barking, so I sort of froze and slowly slid my bike in between me and the dog. I spent the latter mile and a half of my walk with my bike positioned in between me and the dog as it barked and growled at me. Fun times, but I don't think I'll ever be leaving my house without spare tubes and my cellphone again.

[QUOTE=madpogue]Dunno what the law is in Japan, but in virtually every jurisdiction in the US, dogs are required by law to be restrained when off their owner's property.

In Japan the situation with dogs is a national disgrace. The dogs here are often chained up for the whole of their life in a back garden...usually on a chain about 5 feet long, going slowly mad. It's disgusting. I don't know what the law is but in my opinion dogs should be allowed to go free as much as possible. You're right of course, dogs can be much more dangerous than kids. I imagine we're anxious not to hit either. I do think that if a dog attacks you, you have the right to hurt it if necessary to defend yourself, but I also think this is just part of being out and about.

Dogs are supposed to be unrestrained but also trained. A great dane is a frightening opponent tho, because they're more like small horses. But most importantly you should be going slowly enough to be able to stop at unsuspected obstacles. A dog is a lot like a small child in that it is unpredictable, thoughtless and often hard to handle; but essentially it should be as free as possible. You wouldn't expect us to have our children on a lead. For me, this is the same thing.

Got a Great Dane, and yes, she is bigger than some of our horses. Sometimes we use the front yard as "pasture" for our miniature mares and foals, and some of the smaller yearlings. We have a couple that will come running up to you to "visit". It makes no difference if you are on a bike or driving a SUV. They will come at a brisk trot. Fortunately no bad encounters yet. They are usually content with a scratch on the neck, or a pat, and then walk away and resume grazing. I certainly wouldn't want to be bumped by one. Even the little adult ones can weigh from 100 to 250 pounds (except the babies). Kind of fun though to pedal through a small herd of horses.

'bent Brian

Dogs are supposed to be unrestrained but also trained. A great dane is a frightening opponent tho, because they're more like small horses. But most importantly you should be going slowly enough to be able to stop at unsuspected obstacles. A dog is a lot like a small child in that it is unpredictable, thoughtless and often hard to handle; but essentially it should be as free as possible. You wouldn't expect us to have our children on a lead. For me, this is the same thing.

NO! NO! NO!

Dogs need to be restrained so that they will not get in front of me causing me injury or death. Call me silly, but MY LIFE is more important than your dog's total freedom to run the streets. Being a dog owner, YOU are responsible for your dog, and its actions. How would you feel if a cyclist were seriously injured or killed due to your irresponsible actions? How do you think the courts would view it? You'd be very unhappy; and, if there is justice in this world, in prison tossin' a salad or two. :mad:

chris L wrote "I almost tripped over on one of the little grommets " man i love the wallace and grommit movies, pure joy:)

Dunno what the law is in Japan, but in virtually every jurisdiction in the US, dogs are required by law to be restrained when off their owner's property.

In Japan the situation with dogs is a national disgrace. The dogs here are often chained up for the whole of their life in a back garden...usually on a chain about 5 feet long, going slowly mad. It's disgusting. I don't know what the law is but in my opinion dogs should be allowed to go free as much as possible. You're right of course, dogs can be much more dangerous than kids. I imagine we're anxious not to hit either. I do think that if a dog attacks you, you have the right to hurt it if necessary to defend yourself, but I also think this is just part of being out and about. We're talking about two entirely different situations. What you describe is all-too-common here as well. But leaving a dog on a "tie-out" in one's yard, and keeping her on a leash as she's being walked in public, are two fundamentally different things. The former is, with rare exception, cruelty to animals. The latter is simply being a responsible guardian of an animal. The rules wrt the conduct of the animal AND the human are fundamentally different between being on the owner's property and being in public. Comparing the two produces little if any useful knowledge.

Of course, both are pretty tangential to the topic at hand...

NO! NO! NO!
Dogs need to be restrained so that they will not get in front of me causing me injury or death. Call me silly, but MY LIFE is more important than your dog's total freedom to run the streets. Being a dog owner, YOU are responsible for your dog, and its actions. How would you feel if a cyclist were seriously injured or killed due to your irresponsible actions? How do you think the courts would view it? You'd be very unhappy; and, if there is justice in this world, in prison tossin' a salad or two. :mad:

I'm sure this comment illustrates a viewpoint held by many reasonable people in the world. Unfortunately, it shows how far we gone down the anthropocentric road. That the thought of an encounter with a non-human should be viewed with such trepidation is really sad. That you would like the dog 'owner' to go to prison for a situation which you assume is the dog's fault is self-belittling and shows a cut-off mind which holds the curious view that no other species should impinge on you or some human will have to suffer for it. So a mal-adjusted dog is only relevant to you in terms of your own safety? Regardless of the fact that in the vast majority of cases you would be expected to be able to defend yourself from one? A dangerous dog is an unhappy and unhealthy animal and should be seen as such. But just because a dog comes near you doesn't mean s/he's dangerous or in fact, that anything is wrong.

I'm sure this comment illustrates a viewpoint held by many reasonable people in the world. Unfortunately, it shows how far we gone down the anthropocentric road. That the thought of an encounter with a non-human should be viewed with such trepidation is really sad..

Truth is, many encounters with humans these days are being viewed exactly the same way.


That you would like the dog 'owner' to go to prison for a situation which you assume is the dog's fault is self-belittling and shows a cut-off mind which holds the curious view that no other species should impinge on you or some human will have to suffer for it.

Impinge is one thing, threaten is another, and a far more serious issue. The fact of the matter is that the "other species" in this case is supposedly under the control of the human (at least, that's what the term "own" meant last time I checked). As with anything else we claim to "own" or control, if we use it irresponsibly, we have to face the consequences.



So a mal-adjusted dog is only relevant to you in terms of your own safety?

No, it's relevant in terms of the safety of entire communities.


Regardless of the fact that in the vast majority of cases you would be expected to be able to defend yourself from one?

That depends on the dog in question, and whether there is, in fact, more than one in a given situation.


But just because a dog comes near you doesn't mean s/he's dangerous or in fact, that anything is wrong.

No it doesn't. However, this issue is relevant because they have the potential to become dangerous in any given situation.

The point is a dog does not have the intellect level to fully understand what some things are....and usually if they do, they don't care.

If memory serves the most intelligent dogs usually only have the intellect of a 5 year old child...but only a fraction of the language comprehension. Sometimes we see a dog thats out of the ordinary, but still very very few dogs are ever smart enoughh to understand a compound statement from their owner, regardless of training. I know thins form spending almsot every summer of my youth helping run my grandfather's kennel. Beagles are one of the smarter dogs...and even with them you had to speak to them like you would to a four year old...sometimes not even that well.


Now, would you feel comfortable with putting your safety in the hand of a creture with that low of an intellect?

I'm sure this comment illustrates a viewpoint held by many reasonable people in the world. Unfortunately, it shows how far we gone down the anthropocentric road. That the thought of an encounter with a non-human should be viewed with such trepidation is really sad. That you would like the dog 'owner' to go to prison for a situation which you assume is the dog's fault is self-belittling and shows a cut-off mind which holds the curious view that no other species should impinge on you or some human will have to suffer for it. So a mal-adjusted dog is only relevant to you in terms of your own safety?.

Yeah, I'm silly about keeping all my bones, and soft tissue together. In other words, I'm doing what I can to keep my "closed mind" closed, and not spread out all over the pavement because of an irresponsible dog owner.