Commuting - Joggers in Bike Lane, Why?

I saw some posts about various vehicles in bike lanes so I thought I'd continue the trend. I see lots of people jogging in the bike lane. They obviously prefer it to the sidewalk, why? A more even surface than the sidewalk?

Asphalt is actually a better surface to run on than concrete - it's more absorbent and therefore won't be as hard on the knees and ankles. But it's annoying, yes.

Plus a lot of joggers just like to run where it's inconvenient for everyone else. I had to "dance" with a jogger this morning who was running right up the middle of the car lane towards me this morning. I didn't want to go to the right of her, but as I moved left, she moved left (her right). I moved farther left and she moved farther left. She didn't see the car coming up behind her (fortunately very slowly)and it ended up mounting the curb to avoid her and I juked to my right as she moved into the other lane to keep me from going to the left (her right) of her......weird......

Before I became a daily bicycle commuter, I used to go jogging several mornings a week. I would occasionally use the bike lane as an asphalt running surface instead of running on the concrete sidewalk. I would run against traffic and stay close to the curb. If I saw a cyclist coming towards me in the bike lane, I would get back onto the sidewalk until the cyclist went by before going back into the bike lane. I did not want the cyclist to have to "play chicken" and guess the safest way to get around me in the bike lane, so I would get back onto the sidewalk. I wish more joggers would do that to avoid bike-jogger collisions. An on-street bike lane is not the same as a MUP separated from car traffic which is shared by bikes and pedestrians.

I have more problems with people going the wrong way in the bike lane.

Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".

A bicycle is a vehicle and belongs on the road.
A MUP is for little kidz on bikes, joggers, rollerbladers, walkers, etc.

A bicycle is a vehicle and belongs on the road.
A MUP is for little kidz on bikes, joggers, rollerbladers, walkers, etc.

Your MUPs are obviously not like our MUPs - if you had my route to work, you'd be singing a different tune.

As far as joggers in the bike lane, I understand why they want to run on asphalt instead of concrete, and I can respect that. I do appreciate it when joggers get on the sidewalk when I'm coming - it's much easier to hop the curb on foot than on a bike. :)

What I don't get are the joggers who run in the street or bike lane, but so close to the curb that they're running in the concrete gutter. WTF? Is the concrete in the gutter softer than the concrete on the sidewalk, or do they just know that "real" runners run in the street buy they don't know why? :rolleyes:

Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".

+1 Amen!

I just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" He just smiled at me. I think I am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken :P

i just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" he just smiled at me. I think i am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken :p

bici jousting!

I just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" He just smiled at me. I think I am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken :P

Good call hahah. Teach people some lessons! Hahah.

Some people just seem so out of it. Plus they seem to even go there when the bike lane is active like during rush hour where I used to live there would actually be like 4-5 bikes per direction waiting at the light. Joggers shouldn't be in the lane period at that time. It's like the bikers going the wrong direction in the bike lanes. I have done more than my fair share of yelling at them too.

Plus on the Bike paths walkers/joggers think they own the whole thing and wont stay to the right. If I yell they really get startled and they do even when I just ring my bell and it would be nice if they actually would move instead of jumping and getting in my way. I feel bad for startling them but when they are in the way and can't here me approaching there is something going on. I know my pannier is loud since it rattles. I scared the snot out of a dog tonight when I took off to get around some people and made 3-4 jump. I make sure there is enough room to stop prior to getting to them though if they stay in the way.

I hate obstructions in the bike lane. Joggers, garbage cans, bike forking salmon
riding the wrong way. Get the h*ll out of my way.

I have more problems with people going the wrong way in the bike lane.

I've had runners tell me they find it safer to run against the traffic flow than with it. However, runners in the bike lane drives me nuts especially when they wont jump the curb and run in the grass for a couple of seconds if the road I am riding on is super busy with auto traffic. :notamused:

I've had runners tell me they find it safer to run against the traffic flow than with it.

What is the logic behind this? Google seems to suggest that they feel safer being able to see the cars coming at them...
On a bike I certainly wouldn't feel safer facing traffic, so what is so different about jogging that flips this around?
I ride a bike with traffic, and trust that cars aren't interested in hitting me, so why don't joggers follow the same philosophy?

...I wonder if it has to do with the same reason joggers don't have reflectors or lights...

I just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" He just smiled at me. I think I am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken :P

Do it!

While I'm healing up from my accident I've noticed more and more pedestrians in bike lines in my motoring arounds. It gets my blood flowin'. I've often dreamed of what I'd say the the first jogger(s) I come across running in the opposite direction in the bike lane. I'd love to say this:

"Excuse me? Hi. Excuse me? Yeah, hi. Can I talk to you for a minute? Great. Yeah...I just wanted to let you know that I've survived being hit by negligent motorists twice now. And with all the drivers I gotta watch out for I don't need incompetent pedestriants endangering my life is well. This is a bike lane. Your sidewalk is right there."

Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".

I hope this doesn't come as too much of a shock to you, but you're not a bike, either. :roflmao2:

I saw some posts about various vehicles in bike lanes so I thought I'd continue the trend. I see lots of people jogging in the bike lane. They obviously prefer it to the sidewalk, why? A more even surface than the sidewalk?

Much, much more even: no driveway cutouts, tree roots, etc.
Much, much more compliant: go run 10 km on asphalt, then 10 km on concrete and your knees and ankles will tell you the difference.

Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike". Yeah. Don't forget to add "get on the sidewalk"! Got chewed out by an ignorant driver the other day? Pay it forward! When that jogger gets into his car and runs you off the road (nothing personal, but bikes shouldn't use "car lanes", you know) the cycle will be complete.

How is this different from the behaviour of drivers who are inconvenienced by your presence in "their" lane and want you to get into... say, the door zone bike lane to the right? Or onto a parallel "glorified sidewalk" MUP with broken glass and dangers at every intersection? In both cases, the slower, more vulnerable road user finds the alternative provided unsuitable and uncomfortable for his or her purpose. In both cases he or she uses a more suitable space that faster road users feel they "own".

There is lots of stink raised on these boards about laws on mandatory use of cycling facilities where available (and rightly so). Then why change the stance so dramatically when it comes to mandatory use of pedestrian facilities, even if a pedestrian believes it's an inferior and/or unsafe facility? Are there even any laws in your area that enforce mandatory use of sidewalks? I know some areas have that, but do they all? And a better question is should they have that law, if a sizeable proportion of pedestrians find sidewalks inconvenient enough to use the adjacent roadway instead? Nobody really WANTS to run closer to exhaust and moving traffic, so just like cyclists who avoid sidewalks, joggers must have a good reason to do that.

I'm not a jogger, by the way, and have never been, but come on, people, there are obvious parallels here. Moreover, even as a non-jogging pedestrian I'm often unhappy about the sidewalks here: they are narrow and they are made of concrete that must be pretty annoying for anyone on wheels (wheelchairs, strollers). Why is it standard practice in North America to have concrete sidewalks anyhow? It's not like that everywhere in the world; asphalt works just fine, and most pedestrians (of the ones who give a hoot one way or the other anyway) would probably prefer it, since it's smoother and softer (hence easier on knees).

Before you say that jogging is just purely recreational, btw: I know people who use jogging for transportation (walking is too slow, but jogging is just right). Again, can't help but think of the drivers who say that bikes are all toys and used for recreation and hence shouldn't be allowed on the road....

I hope this doesn't come as too much of a shock to you, but you're not a bike, either. :roflmao2:

Good, cause I already knew I wasnt a car.:thumb:

chephy, I have to agree with you, this is what I think when I read these threads. When I used to jog, I did it on the roads with few exceptions. If there had been a bike path, I would have run on that. Sure, I wish joggers and pedestrians would be a little more considerate. Considering the idea that there might be a cyclist on a bike path would be a good start. But I'm not going to begrudge them the use of public infrastructure. Particularly since there is no harm to me.

If we can complain about anything, it would be those ****ing in-line skaters that take up both lanes. I never see them on my runs in the forest, though. ;)

Yeah. Don't forget to add "get on the sidewalk"! Got chewed out by an ignorant driver the other day? Pay it forward! When that jogger gets into his car and runs you off the road (nothing personal, but bikes shouldn't use "car lanes", you know) the cycle will be complete.

How is this different from the behaviour of drivers who are inconvenienced by your presence in "their" lane and want you to get into... say, the door zone bike lane to the right? Or onto a parallel "glorified sidewalk" MUP with broken glass and dangers at every intersection? In both cases, the slower, more vulnerable road user finds the alternative provided unsuitable and uncomfortable for his or her purpose. In both cases he or she uses a more suitable space that faster road users feel they "own".

There is lots of stink raised on these boards about laws on mandatory use of cycling facilities where available (and rightly so). Then why change the stance so dramatically when it comes to mandatory use of pedestrian facilities, even if a pedestrian believes it's an inferior and/or unsafe facility? Are there even any laws in your area that enforce mandatory use of sidewalks? I know some areas have that, but do they all? And a better question is should they have that law, if a sizeable proportion of pedestrians find sidewalks inconvenient enough to use the adjacent roadway instead? Nobody really WANTS to run closer to exhaust and moving traffic, so just like cyclists who avoid sidewalks, joggers must have a good reason to do that.

I'm not a jogger, by the way, and have never been, but come on, people, there are obvious parallels here. Moreover, even as a non-jogging pedestrian I'm often unhappy about the sidewalks here: they are narrow and they are made of concrete that must be pretty annoying for anyone on wheels (wheelchairs, strollers). Why is it standard practice in North America to have concrete sidewalks anyhow? It's not like that everywhere in the world; asphalt works just fine, and most pedestrians (of the ones who give a hoot one way or the other anyway) would probably prefer it, since it's smoother and softer (hence easier on knees).

Before you say that jogging is just purely recreational, btw: I know people who use jogging for transportation (walking is too slow, but jogging is just right). Again, can't help but think of the drivers who say that bikes are all toys and used for recreation and hence shouldn't be allowed on the road....


Lighten up Francis, I was trying to point out we get upset by drivers not thinking we should be in their lanes so we shoudl be a bit more tolerant of joggers. I have commuted in the big city for years. I have heard all the youre not a car, get on the side walk....and on andd on. Ususally joggers run toward traffic so they can get out of the way when they need to. Sorry if I was not clear.

Sure, I wish joggers and pedestrians would be a little more considerate. Considering the idea that there might be a cyclist on a bike path would be a good start. I absolutely agree. I have a rather unfavourable opinion (to put it mildly) of inconsiderate walkers and joggers who crowd the whole path, or step onto the road right in front of you without looking. Respect, courtesy and a common sense are important no matter what vehicle you're using, shank's mare included.

Lighten up Francis, I was trying to point out we get upset by drivers not thinking we should be in their lanes so we shoudl be a bit more tolerant of joggers. Yeah, I realized *your* post was tongue-in-cheek. It's just that some people took it at face value though, from what I can see.

Much, much more even: no driveway cutouts, tree roots, etc.
Much, much more compliant: go run 10 km on asphalt, then 10 km on concrete and your knees and ankles will tell you the difference.

Then what's to keep them from running in the actual lane of vehicle traffic? Huh? oh, because that's not what it's meant for! Go run around the local highschool track or find your MUP, and hope it's asphalt.

Then what's to keep them from running in the actual lane of vehicle traffic? Huh? oh, because that's not what it's meant for! Go run around the local highschool track or find your MUP, and hope it's asphalt. Go ride your bike on MUP. Get off the road. It's meant for cars.

Then what's to keep them from running in the actual lane of vehicle traffic?
Nothing. I have often run in the actual lane of vehicle traffic where there's no shoulder. I just don't see what's such a big deal about this. If the runner doesn't hop up on to the sidewalk, then just go around them like any other obstruction in the bike lane.


Huh? oh, because that's not what it's meant for! Go run around the local highschool track or find your MUP, and hope it's asphalt.

You sound like so many impatient drivers. Sometimes I run around the track. Often I run from my office to my house (run-commuting, if you will) because I'm a working dad who's always looking for ways to maximize my limited time for fitness. I would be thrilled if the city laid out a crushed granite running path from downtown to my neighborhood, but since the likelihood of that is zero, I'll use city streets for now.

Joggers I'm fine with. But only when they're moving towards me. Most states statutes say that if a pedestrian is in the road, they are to travel against the flow of traffic. Certainly what I was taught in school. Bikes go with traffic, pedestrians go against it. I loathe coming up behind a jogger or walker with their headphones on, or who don't understand the concept of "on your left". That's annoying. Wrong way cyclists bug me. Seriously, riding against traffic seems stupid and dangerous. And what the heck was up with the guy this morning on some sort of skis complete with poles. That wasn't easy to get around, and of course he couldn't hear me.

Joggers I'm fine with. But only when they're moving towards me. Most states statutes say that if a pedestrian is in the road, they are to travel against the flow of traffic. Certainly what I was taught in school. Bikes go with traffic, pedestrians go against it. I loathe coming up behind a jogger or walker with their headphones on, or who don't understand the concept of "on your left". That's annoying. If they are running courteously (i.e., not hogging an unnecessary amount of space and not swerving unpredictably), I see no problem with that. Pass that person the same way you pass a slower cyclist. I must say I personally prefer to encounter joggers running with the traffic flow, even if they should be doing the opposite, technically. More time for me to react and figure out the best way to safely go around him/her (I must admit to being kind of spooked once when I encounter a couple of opposite-direction joggers in a bike lane around a blind corner - I go slowly enogh around blind corners to be able to stop in the distance I can see, but if someone else is moving fast in the opposite direction, I can't avoid colliding with them even if I am nearly stationary). In fact, I don't understand the need for "on your left" when everyone is moving predictably. Do car drivers yell "on your left" whenever they pass you?

Joggers I'm fine with. But only when they're moving towards me. Most states statutes say that if a pedestrian is in the road, they are to travel against the flow of traffic. Certainly what I was taught in school. Bikes go with traffic, pedestrians go against it. I loathe coming up behind a jogger or walker with their headphones on, or who don't understand the concept of "on your left". That's annoying. Wrong way cyclists bug me. Seriously, riding against traffic seems stupid and dangerous. And what the heck was up with the guy this morning on some sort of skis complete with poles. That wasn't easy to get around, and of course he couldn't hear me.

Why is that?
Wouldn't it be better if we all traveled the same direction?

Why is that? (Bikes go with traffic, pedestrians go against it)
Wouldn't it be better if we all traveled the same direction?

This was always my take on that rule (which I do follow):

Since pedestrians are generally going much slower that bike or auto traffic, this makes the pedestrian much more aware traffic that would impact them and give them a greater chance to move out of the flow of traffic or to take evasive action as needed.

A 25mph car or bike will come up on a 5mph walker very quickly, compared to a 20mph cycle. Likewise, a 20mph cycle can blend with traffic much better...

I've had runners tell me they find it safer to run against the traffic flow than with it.

They are correct. Running against traffic is safer than running with it; biking with traffic is safer than biking against it. It's a pain in the parts when they do this, but they're not doing it to be jerks -- they want a better surface to run on (sidewalk concrete can really destroy you if you run on it) and/or one where they won't constantly have to dodge/stop/slow for slower traffic.

I saw some posts about various vehicles in bike lanes so I thought I'd continue the trend. I see lots of people jogging in the bike lane. They obviously prefer it to the sidewalk, why? A more even surface than the sidewalk?

They're jealous and pretending to be riding:roflmao2:

No, actually, runners think cyclists are lazy wimps. :p

This was always my take on that rule (which I do follow):

Since pedestrians are generally going much slower that bike or auto traffic, this makes the pedestrian much more aware traffic that would impact them and give them a greater chance to move out of the flow of traffic or to take evasive action as needed.

A 25mph car or bike will come up on a 5mph walker very quickly, compared to a 20mph cycle. Likewise, a 20mph cycle can blend with traffic much better...

Haven't we heard wrong-way-bike-riders say the same thing?
What was the counter argument against them(i forget the specifics)... and would that apply to joggers as well?

I hardly ever see anyone jogging the right or "wrong way" in the bike lanes here. I do see rollerbladers in the bike lanes but they are usually following the same direction as traffic and cyclists. I usually just pass them (sometimes they pass me :50:). I don't feel they are causing me a problem and neither would a jogger. I see a lot of runners/joggers on the MUP though. We have 100's of kilometers of ashphalt bike/multi-use paths here so there is really no need for someone to go running in bike lanes downtown.

Haven't we heard wrong-way-bike-riders say the same thing?
What was the counter argument against them(i forget the specifics)... and would that apply to joggers as well?

No, it would not. They are different situations.

Does it really need to be explained in detail why a bicycle traveling 25mph and a jogger traveling 5mph are different? Does it need to be explained to you that, when threatened by too-close oncoming traffic, a person on foot can usually make a quicker and safer exit from the roadway than a cyclist can?

Haven't we heard wrong-way-bike-riders say the same thing?
What was the counter argument against them(i forget the specifics)... and would that apply to joggers as well?

Joggers can move sideways, step over curbs and other obstacles, and stop on a dime.

At first glance the parallel in the conflict between the driver vs. cyclist and cyclist vs jogger is obvious, but if you look a little closer there is a difference. Both driver and cyclist righteous attitudes come from an idea that they are entitled to use the space in question but the other person is not.

Righteous drivers are thinking bicycles are slow toys and have no right to be on the roadway. They are mistaken, as bicycles are vehicles, and drivers are legally required to share the road.

Cyclists are not mistaken that the bike lanes are intended only for bikes, and other forms of traffic have no place there. Joggers in bike lanes are technically jaywalking and should always jump up onto the sidewalk (ubiquitous facility designed solely for their use as pedestrians!) whenever a legal road user is approaching.

Usually joggers/pedestrians are fairly courteous in the bike path, which here in MA is open to everyone except motorized vehicles. It's the people with double and triple strollers with 2+ dogs that are all over the path can be bothersome.

Joggers can move sideways, step over curbs and other obstacles, and stop on a dime.

Sure could have fooled me,
they sure don't seem to take advantage of this magical ability when the oncoming traffic is me on my bike.





So, by that logic... if this manuvering ability is what makes counterflow advantagous for them; then a jogger who doesn't or refuses to manuver, is actually better off going with flow.

Not only am I vocal member of this community, an avid SS rider, tour/radon rider and wannabe mountain biker, I'm also a marathon runner.

I run in your MUP. Multi. Use. Path.

The first genius that tried to play chicken with me while I was out RUNNING (jogging is a disease) would get punched in the throat for trying to attack me.

We want cars to respect us, but when we have to share our space we want to threaten to run into them on a bike? Seriously, show the same consideration you think you've merited on the roads and stop being asshats.

Not only am I vocal member of this community, an avid SS rider, tour/radon rider and wannabe mountain biker, I'm also a marathon runner.

I run in your MUP. Multi. Use. Path.

The first genius that tried to play chicken with me while I was out RUNNING (jogging is a disease) would get punched in the throat for trying to attack me.

We want cars to respect us, but when we have to share our space we want to threaten to run into them on a bike? Seriously, show the same consideration you think you've merited on the roads and stop being asshats.

First of all, this is about conflicts in the bike lane, not the MUP.
Second, its about jogging not running.
So relax, this isn't against you.

If we can complain about anything, it would be those ****ing in-line skaters that take up both lanes. I never see them on my runs in the forest, though. ;)

OMG. There's this one middle-aged Don Juan wannabe rollerblader on my local MUP who skates like an Olympic speedskater, with the wide arm swings and everything. Down the middle. And NEVER moves over.

Until he sees an attractive woman between the ages of 18 and 80, whereupon he slows down and has even reversed direction to try to chat them up. He's hilarious. And annoying.

Sure could have fooled me,
they sure don't seem to take advantage of this magical ability when the oncoming traffic is me on my bike.

So, by that logic... if this manuvering ability is what makes counterflow advantagous for them; then a jogger who doesn't or refuses to manuver, is actually better off going with flow.

That last sentence made no sense at all to me.

I think you're confusing two issues here:

1)should joggers run in the bike lane?

2)is it safer for a pedestrian, when sharing a way with vehicular traffic, to go with the flow or against it?

The comment you were referring to addresses point 2), dealing with practical matters of safety. You seem to want to discuss point 1), dealing with the oughts and ought-nots of sharing a bike lane. Nothing wrong with that, just be aware that if you mix the two, you'll get nonsense.

First of all, this is about conflicts in the bike lane, not the MUP.
Second, its about jogging not running.
So relax, this isn't against you.

Um, why would jogging vs. running make the least insignificant bit of difference?

Joggers don't bother me, if given enough maneuvering time, I'll just move out of the bike lane into the roadway and pass them like I would a cyclist or anything else in the bike lane.

Um, why would jogging vs. running make the least insignificant bit of difference?

Absolutely nothing to me, but Santaria mentioned the point when he was trying to bait us, so I figured I'd better shoot it down for completeness sake.