Cyclocross - Lightest frame with rack mounts?

I'm looking to replace the Gunnar Crosshairs frame that was part of my short-lived commuter bike (due to no fault of my own and all the blame laying squarely on a mom in a hurry). Being the closet-weight weenie that I am, I was a little disappointed with the final weight of my Crosshairs commuter which came in at a little under 28 lbs. including rack, fenders, lights, and pump. The only really lightweight parts I used were the Ritchey WCS seatpost, stem, and handlebar and an XTR rear derailler. This time around though I'm going to focus a lot more on keeping the weight down and less on my budget.

Ideally, I'd knock about 5 lbs. off my original build. I already have wheels spec'd that will remove ~1 lb. I'm going to save another ~0.8 lbs. using a lighter rack. More weight saved on the tires and crankset will maybe net me another pound if I'm lucky (haven't decided on anything there). My main concern at the moment is the frame though. According to Gunnar, the Crosshairs weighs 4.1 lbs. in a size 56 (I rode a size 52). Is there anything out there that would work as a commuter that's closer to 3 lbs.?

I'm trying to stick in the cross/touring category because I want to continue using a disc front brake and there are no lightweight road/sport road forks with disc brake mounts (that I know about). The Winwood Dualist fork that I used before seems to be the lightest option out there for a disc brake on a 700c wheeled bike. If there was a shorter axle-to-crown height fork that had disc brake mounts, could fit 28mm tires plus fenders, and weighed less than 600 grams I'd be all over it and it would really open up my choices for frames. Failing that, my original question stands so what do you suggest?

[Note 1: This has already been posted in the mechanics forum where I received some good input but I'm looking for more.]

[Note 2: Spare me the lectures about how weight shouldn't be a concern on a commuting bike. I didn't post this in the commuter forum for a reason :D]

Specialized Tricross pro frameset is very light. I didn't weigh mine before I built it up but I built it with full ultegra, non-carbon drop bars, heavy shimano M324 pedals, Veulta Xrp wheels (I don't recommend these) with kenda kwick tires. The bike still came in less than 21 # and has mounts for a rear rack. Paid $929 for the frame.

you know you can put a rack on any bike using p-clamps, right? You don't need rack mounts specifically...
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks?a=1&page=all#product=20-016

Specialized Tricross pro frameset is very light. I didn't weigh mine before I built it up but I built it with full ultegra, non-carbon drop bars, heavy shimano M324 pedals, Veulta Xrp wheels (I don't recommend these) with kenda kwick tires. The bike still came in less than 21 # and has mounts for a rear rack. Paid $929 for the frame.

I hadn't even considered any of the major manufacturers as I just assumed they wouldn't offer frames. Seems that Specialized has upped the price (now $1100) but that does include a seatpost and fork. If anyone knows the actual frame weight (preferably for a size 54), I'd really appreciate the info.


you know you can put a rack on any bike using p-clamps, right? You don't need rack mounts specifically...

This is true but I was trying to stay away from that compromise both for strength and aesthetic reasons. My desire for true rack mounts really seems to only limit me from selecting the truly high end cross frames which are outside of my budget anyway.

whether or not it is a good question, this is probably the answer excluding custom frames
http://pedalforce.com/online/index.php?cPath=102175

[QUOTE=joejack951;9223144]I hadn't even considered any of the major manufacturers as I just assumed they wouldn't offer frames. Seems that Specialized has upped the price (now $1100) but that does include a seatpost and fork. If anyone knows the actual frame weight (preferably for a size 54), I'd really appreciate the info.


The $1100 price is retail. You can get better internet prices or ask your dealer for a "no work" price, meaning he sells you the frame in the box with no labor and if you need help you pay for it. That is what I did which is why I paid only $929. BTW, mine is a 2009 and I bought it one month ago. I really wish I would have weighed it before I built it up.

You can buy a Specialized Tricross Comp fully assembled with Ultegra rear derailleur, 105 on the front and shifters for only about $1600. Also a trek portland at the same price has fenders already and disc brakes but lower end shifters and derailleurs and comes in at about 21lbs.

whether or not it is a good question, this is probably the answer excluding custom frames
http://pedalforce.com/online/index.php?cPath=102175

That frame certainly has the potential to be the one. Thanks!

The $1100 price is retail. You can get better internet prices or ask your dealer for a "no work" price, meaning he sells you the frame in the box with no labor and if you need help you pay for it. That is what I did which is why I paid only $929. BTW, mine is a 2009 and I bought it one month ago. I really wish I would have weighed it before I built it up.

You can buy a Specialized Tricross Comp fully assembled with Ultegra rear derailleur, 105 on the front and shifters for only about $1600. Also a trek portland at the same price has fenders already and disc brakes but lower end shifters and derailleurs and comes in at about 21lbs.

I'll inquire with the local dealer and see what they can offer me. Looks like it's going to be tough to beat the Pedal Force though.

I already have most of the components needed for the build and I plan on building my own wheels so purchasing a complete bike has little incentive for me. The Trek Portland's cheesy half fenders don't belong on a bike of mine either :p

umm, unless I missed it, I didn't see rack mounts on the pedal force...

looks like a rack mount to me

I was going to ask if there were braze-ons somewhere on those seat stays but unless I change my mind on my rack choice, I won't need them. The Old Man Mountain rack I have will mount at the drop outs and the cantilever bosses.

I guess I am a little confused. If you don't need rack mounts, what were you asking for?

Anyway, my opinion is go with a good known company, be it specialized, surly, salsa etc. I have never heard of this Pedal Force or their customer service so be careful and ask around first. Many cheaper carbon fiber frames weigh as much or more than good aluminum frames with carbon seat stays and forks. You may find that this pedal force makes good, cheap and light frames and have excellent customer service but I have never found that combination. Usually you give up "quality" or "light" and almost always "cheap" comes with bad customer service (ie Bikes Direct).

P.S. I know the BD comment will bring a s**t storm but I have purchased from them and am speaking from my own experience.

Good Luck, DB

I just googled "pedal force" and found a review of one of their bikes.

http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/pedal-force-rs2-road-bike-pro-review/

It sounds to me like these frames are made in the same factory many other bikes from Taiwan are made in. They mention a few blemishes in the article but it sounds like they were satisfied with their bike. The question is are these seconds? Meaning are these the frames that didn't make the cut for the OEM. The RS2 that they show looks a lot like a specialized tarmac with the sloping top tube.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=39248&eid=115

So if this is a second, are you willing to take the chance that there are a few blemishes? My answer would depend on what other people say about their customer service. I buy cigar "seconds" all the time, but out of a bundle of 25 cigars, 5 of them are usually unsmokable due to too tight a draw etc. This is a bike frame and you are only getting one. Make sure you can return it if it is unable to be turned into a bike shaped object. You never know, you may get a hell of a bike for little money.
DB

whether or not it is a good question, this is probably the answer excluding custom frames
http://pedalforce.com/online/index.php?cPath=102175

Watched the video. All mud, blood and glory. Wow. Made me want to go rip out a hot 20 on my ss, but it's bedtime, mytime, so it'll have to wait...but what an inspiring vid. Thanks for sharing it.

Oops, thought I was on the 'commuting' sub...no wonder the vid was all about cyclo-cross...my bad. :p

looks like a rack mount to me

I didn't see any at the dropouts....

there's a hole at the dropouts, according to the description and visible in the pictures. if you're referring to the fact that there's only one hole instead of two (for both fenders and a rack), i've heard that you can usually attach both to a single mount point at the dropout so long as your bolt is long enough. never tried it though.

the pedal force frames aren't seconds, they're just a budget reseller that outsources production to asia. if i remember right the cx1 was designed with input from people on these forums. i've never owned one but a lot of people in the road forum have, so you could read some of those threads. generally seem positive. regardless, if i were dropping nearly $1000 on a cross/commuter frame i'd probably buy a habanero ti despite the small <1 pound weight penalty. incidentally, habanero is also a budget reseller that outsources production to asia.

I guess I am a little confused. If you don't need rack mounts, what were you asking for?

I could have been more specific and asked for "rack mounts at the dropouts" as that is all I need for one of my rack options. Ideally, the frame would have seat stay mounts but as long as I stick with the OMM rack, I don't need them. Usually frames have both though so I guess that influenced my wording.

the pedal force frames aren't seconds, they're just a budget reseller that outsources production to asia. if i remember right the cx1 was designed with input from people on these forums. i've never owned one but a lot of people in the road forum have, so you could read some of those threads. generally seem positive. regardless, if i were dropping nearly $1000 on a cross/commuter frame i'd probably buy a habanero ti despite the small <1 pound weight penalty. incidentally, habanero is also a budget reseller that outsources production to asia.

The Habanero frame was at the top of my list until I came across the PF CX1. PF is made in Taiwan, Habanero is made in China. The Habanero costs $100 more, might be a more robust frame but it's also a pound heavier. I figure I'll take my chances with the PF and see how it goes. Plenty of guys in the road forums have been extremely happy with their road frames so I don't think I'm taking a huge chance with the cross version.

As for blemishes, my Gunnar had a flawless paint job until one day I was putting away from floor pump and accidentally dropped it on my top tube. Nice big scratch. *Luckily* (note the sarcasm) I only had to look at it for a few months. It's a lot more scratched up (and twisted) now. If the PF frame shows up with some clear coat issues, I doubt I'll care about them much after my first really rainy ride that covers the bike in road grit and bug parts.

there's a hole at the dropouts, according to the description and visible in the pictures. if you're referring to the fact that there's only one hole instead of two (for both fenders and a rack), i've heard that you can usually attach both to a single mount point at the dropout so long as your bolt is long enough. never tried it though.

On the bikes that I've had both a rack and fenders, I've always just used a longer bolt and mounted the fender stays inside on the rack legs. Some racks (Tubus comes to mind) have a fender stay mount built-in so that you don't have to use an extended bolt at the drop out.

Update: I ordered the Pedal Force frame last week on Monday. I would have had it Saturday but I was out of town so I picked it up at the post office today. It was shipped direct from Taiwain and packaged reasonably well (bubble wrapped in a good box but without any reinforcement inside of the box). Can't complain about the 5 day delivery though. Shipping was $25.

Comments:

The frame DOES have rack mounts on the wishbone seat stay. Nice touch in case I go for a different rack some day.

I looked over the frame pretty closely and only found one clearcoat blemish on the edge of the headtube. Otherwise, I'm impressed with the finish quality. The carbon weave is showing in the middle 2/3's of all the tubes and all the junctions are painted black. The only logo is on the headtube though it's disappointingly under the clearcoat so it has to stay.

The frame came with a roller for using a bottom pull derailler with a top tube routed cable and a riveted-on stop for the rear brakes. Oddly, there's no adjuster screwed into the stop (it won't work without one either). Hopefully I can use one off an old derailler or something.

The seattube does not have any metal insert for clamping on the seat post. I was a bit surprised by this but then again I'm only really familiar with one other carbon frame (LOOK). It did come with a nice clamp for the seatpost though. I'm using an aluminum post so hopefully I won't have any issues with it slipping.

The holes for mounting a rack/fenders at the dropouts look like an afterthought. They are quite close to the edge and the non-drive side hole is partially missing due to breaking into a cored out area in the dropout. They'll probably work just fine but it would have been nice if this area was better thought out. All the other holes for mounting are nicely integrated.

That's it for now. I'll be sure to post pictures when I'm done building.

Darn, saw this thread a little too late.

You will definitely enjoy the PF CX1 frame. I love mine. I also mounted some fenders and a rack on mine for some short touring and it's a comfortable and relaxing ride.
With Open Pro's, but no fenders and rack my bike came out to ~18lbs.
Here is a pic of it how it looks like before fenders and rack mount:

http://gallery.geekazoids.net/v/bikes/cx1-15.jpg.html

Darn, saw this thread a little too late.

You will definitely enjoy the PF CX1 frame. I love mine. I also mounted some fenders and a rack on mine for some short touring and it's a comfortable and relaxing ride.
With Open Pro's, but no fenders and rack my bike came out to ~18lbs.
Here is a pic of it how it looks like before fenders and rack mount:

http://gallery.geekazoids.net/v/bikes/cx1-15.jpg.html

Nice! Light and comfortable are big on my list of wants for this bike. I know it'll be light based on the weight of the frame :) I can't wait to start building mine up. I have a few more parts coming in next week before I'm ready though. Just finished lacing my wheels tonight. I'll be tensioning/truing over the weekend. Here are some pics I took of the frame prior to anything being added:

http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02178.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02179.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02180.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02181.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02182.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02183.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02184.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02185.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02186.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02187.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02188.JPG

The bike has been built for a little while now though I just finally had time to finish tweaking everything today. It's all geared up for it's first commute tomorrow. Here's a pic (~23.7 lbs. on my bathroom scale as shown):

http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/PF/DSC02690.JPG

Some details:

Shifters, cassette, rear derailler - Ultegra 6500
Handlebars, stem, seatpost, headset - Ritchey WCS
Fork: Winwood Dualist
Saddle: Fizik Pave CX
Front brakes: Avid BB7 Road
Rear brakes: Avid Shorty 6
Front derailler: Shimano 105
Crankset: Truvativ Elita Triple 52/42/28 (Salsa ring replaced original 30T)
Chain: KMC X9
Wheels: American Classic Disc 130 and 205S hubs laced to IRD Cadence VSR rims. DT Alloy nipples. Front is all DT Revolution spokes. Rear is DT Competition DS, Revolution NDS. 32/3 cross front and rear.
Tires: Continental GP 4 Season 28mm
Rack: Old Man Mountain White Rock
Headlight: Light & Motion Arc Lithium Ion Ultra
Taillights: PB Superflash and Cateye TL-LD1000
Fenders: SKS P35

If you look really closely you'll see that I used p-clamps to attach the fender stays to the rack struts rather than sandwiching them up against the drop outs. I found aluminum p-clamps at McMaster Carr with a 9.5mm ID which worked perfectly for this.

The only planned changes are to the crankset which will be switched to a Stronglight Pulsion Triple if and when my Stronglight Fission ever shows up to go on my road bike. That will drop close to half a pound off the bike.

Thanks for all the responses to my original question.

Looks great. I'll bet you will have a lot of fun with it.