General Cycling Discussion - Oh, you mean that guy that Sheryl Crow is dating ! ACk..

So I'm talking to one the girls here at work (the one that will sniff all the bagels Friday mornings before picking one, but that's a whole other story), and I tell her I went and Saw the move Dodgeball last friday... she had mentioned she was gonna see it over the weekend, but had not yet. Here's how that conversation went:

Me: Hey did you go see Dodgeball over the Weekend ?
Her: Nope, got to busy. How was it ?
Me: It was pretty funny over all, but the funniest part was when Lance Armstrong shows up in the middle of the movie. It was super funny, and completely random.
Her: Who's Lance Armstrong.
Me: *blank stare*
Her: His name sounds familiar, who is he ?
Me: Ya know, Lance 'freakin' Armstrong, 5 time TdF winner, came back from Cancer that nearly killed him.
Her: Oh yeah, that guy that Sheryl Crows is dating, right ?
Me: *another blank stare* Uhh, I guess, yeah.

I just had to walk away after that... this chick is clueless

jeff

what can you say, lance is just another normal guy?

Strange as it may seem, not everyone follows bicycle racing. Even the beloved Lance can pass under many people's radar. Doesn't make them clueless, they just have different priorities.

What you should have done was ask her who this Sheryl Crow person is.

hehe good point Allister... I dunno about Australia... but Lance is pretty much everywhere these days.. whether it is his Niek commercials, or the Subaru commercials, or whatever....

Even people with no interest in cycling should at least have somewhat of a clue of who he is... even if all they know is that he rides bikes..

jeff

p.s. and as a side note... she really IS clueless... not jsut in these matters... but she's fun to talk to, jsut to hear what she has to say

but why does she sniff the bagels?

So I'm talking to one the girls here at work (the one that will sniff all the bagels Friday mornings before picking one, but that's a whole other story), and I tell her I went and Saw the move Dodgeball last friday... she had mentioned she was gonna see it over the weekend, but had not yet. Here's how that conversation went:

Me: Hey did you go see Dodgeball over the Weekend ?
Her: Nope, got to busy. How was it ?
Me: It was pretty funny over all, but the funniest part was when Lance Armstrong shows up in the middle of the movie. It was super funny, and completely random.
Her: Who's Lance Armstrong.
Me: *blank stare*
Her: His name sounds familiar, who is he ?
Me: Ya know, Lance 'freakin' Armstrong, 5 time TdF winner, came back from Cancer that nearly killed him.
Her: Oh yeah, that guy that Sheryl Crows is dating, right ?
Me: *another blank stare* Uhh, I guess, yeah.

I just had to walk away after that... this chick is clueless

jeff


That's just brutal.... I think Lance has crossed over to the mainstream by now. I think he's up there with the likes of Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretzky. He's definately a legend in the same regard. It should be more like " Who's Sheryl Crow? Oh she's that chick going out with Lance Armstrong!"

Just my two cents.

Bagel sniffer.

Oh, man, if somebody in my office was sniffing all the bagels I'd just have to "load" one for her!

What would you load it with? :D

HalfHearted's secret bagel sauce of course.

Strange as it may seem, not everyone follows bicycle racing. Even the beloved Lance can pass under many people's radar. Doesn't make them clueless, they just have different priorities.

What you should have done was ask her who this Sheryl Crow person is.

Tons of my so-called sports fan friends have no idea who Lance Armstrong is. Sad. But again, I don't follow baseball, so whenever they pop out some names from the perennial underachievers Red Sox, I would reply, "Who?". :) What's even sadder is to see some of these guys claiming that they are soccer fans but not knowing who Nedved or Rooney are. Heck, they don't even know that Euro2004 is taking place.

Perhaps cycling, like soccer, is considered too non-American for the majority of us, single-language-speaking, Hollywood-movie-watching, foreign-news-ignoring, baseball-and-nothing-else-supporting, ethnocentric Americans. ;)

p.s. and as a side note... she really IS clueless... not jsut in these matters... but she's fun to talk to, jsut to hear what she has to say

by any chance is she like REALLY hot? I can put up with REALLY HOT girls that say stupid things, but not ugly stupid girls. sorry to be a pig, ladies, its just a fact of life.

Strange as it may seem, not everyone follows bicycle racing. Even the beloved Lance can pass under many people's radar. Doesn't make them clueless, they just have different priorities.

What you should have done was ask her who this Sheryl Crow person is.

you are right. however, i think knowing at least a little about lance armstrong falls into the 'general knowledge' category that many americans are very short on. i mean the TDF is the largest annual organized sporting event in the world (someone correct me if i'm wrong about that...i thought i read that somewhere) and has been around for 100 years.

but all in all, i do blame the sports media for a lot of this. i mean, how much baseball and football can they cram down our throats? there is more going on in the world than that. :mad:

This girl's clue less.. but she's hot.. so you really can't blame her...

I heard soccer was one of the most popular sports world wide. If the current best soccer guy walked into our office, no one here would know who he is.
Actually I have no clue either, who IS the current best soccer guy who hasn't been mysteriously dissappeared for kicking a ball into the other team's goal?

So who is Cheryl Crow anyway. I could Google it, but that would show that I care.

She sings right?

Perhaps cycling, like soccer, is considered too non-American for the majority of us, single-language-speaking, Hollywood-movie-watching, foreign-news-ignoring, baseball-and-nothing-else-supporting, ethnocentric Americans. ;) The irony is that "soccer" is almost uniquely American. Pretty-much everywhere else it's called "football" (or some translation thereof).

It's true, then? Lance left his wife, who saw him through his cancer, so he could date a rock star? Figures, for a bicyclist shilling for a motorcar company which prides itself on the ability of its products to hurtle through nature's splendor.

[QUOTE=SipperPhotoor the Subaru commercials, or whatever....

Even people with no interest in cycling should at least have somewhat of a clue of who he is... even if all they know is that he rides bikes..

jeff[/QUOTE]

Why? we are saturated with NASCAR everywhere we look these days I have no interest in it so I could not tell you any drivers name, well except Enhardt Jr, and I have no clue who's the best is. I certainly hope that doesn't make me clueless.

Why? we are saturated with NASCAR everywhere we look these days I have no interest in it so I could not tell you any drivers name, well except Enhardt Jr, and I have no clue who's the best is. I certainly hope that doesn't make me clueless.

i'm actually not seeing that much NASCAR. maybe it's a regional programming thing - in NYC i just don't see that much of it. i've heard from people in other parts of the country that it's more popular there. humm. but anyway - it seems cycling is the least popular anywhere, that much is true.

Similar thing happened to me when my sister referred to Patrick Stewart as "oh the guy from xmen?"

I almost performed a Vulcan death grip but decided to have mercy.

i'm actually not seeing that much NASCAR. maybe it's a regional programming thing - in NYC i just don't see that much of it. i've heard from people in other parts of the country that it's more popular there. humm. but anyway - it seems cycling is the least popular anywhere, that much is true.

Its the number 1 watched sport (????) in the US now, NASCAR that is ;)

Perhaps cycling, like soccer, is considered too non-American for the majority of us, single-language-speaking, Hollywood-movie-watching, foreign-news-ignoring, baseball-and-nothing-else-supporting, ethnocentric Americans. ;)

Exactly. My theory is that sports like cycling and soccer don't get the recognition they deserve in the U.S. because they are not "American" sports.

I'm so sick of the fact that it's perfectly fine to not know who Armstrong or Rooney are, but if you don't know who won the World Series or the NBA finals, you are a worthless unpatriotic scumbag. The ironic thing is that the typical baseball/football/basketball fan is fat and lazy, living their athletic life vicariously through the television. They'll tell you soccer/bicycling aren't "real" sports.... like channel surfing and yelling at the T.V. is. :rolleyes:

Its the number 1 watched sport (????) in the US now, NASCAR that is ;)

wow! i guess i have my head under a rock....i think i'll keep it there :p

Similar thing happened to me when my sister referred to Patrick Stewart as "oh the guy from xmen?"

I almost performed a Vulcan death grip but decided to have mercy.

You mean the guy who was leading a triple life training in the academy, commanding a starship and growing his own wine?

wow! i guess i have my head under a rock....i think i'll keep it there :p

Scary ain't it :D

Whats even sadder is those sports columnists who don't respect cycling as a sport, think NASCAR is.

The irony is that "soccer" is almost uniquely American. Pretty-much everywhere else it's called "football" (or some translation thereof).

It's true, then? Lance left his wife, who saw him through his cancer, so he could date a rock star? Figures, for a bicyclist shilling for a motorcar company which prides itself on the ability of its products to hurtle through nature's splendor.

The problem with calling football "football" is that you risk confusing your friends who would think of the sport in which 300-lbs guys huff and puff with stop-and-stop-and-more-stop action and still call themselves athletes.

Regarding Lance's situation, I don't think we should judge him without knowing the facts. Marriage is more demanding, more taxing than any climb up l'Ape D'Huez.

but why does she sniff the bagels?

I wish I knew... All I know is my goal every Friday morning is to get to them before she does... I'm not down with pre-sniffed bagels !

jeff

by any chance is she like REALLY hot? I can put up with REALLY HOT girls that say stupid things, but not ugly stupid girls. sorry to be a pig, ladies, its just a fact of life.

naw.. she's nice.. but kinda dumpy

it would take a lot of tequila to make her look better :D

jeff

[QUOTE=SipperPhotoor the Subaru commercials, or whatever....

Even people with no interest in cycling should at least have somewhat of a clue of who he is... even if all they know is that he rides bikes..

jeff

Why? we are saturated with NASCAR everywhere we look these days I have no interest in it so I could not tell you any drivers name, well except Enhardt Jr, and I have no clue who's the best is. I certainly hope that doesn't make me clueless.[/QUOTE]


but you have at least HEARD of Earnhardt, right ?

jeff

What would you load it with? :D
Well, I'm sure with a little thought I could probably come up with something that would put her off bagels forever :)

The only trick would be making sure everybody else in the building knew not to eat the bagels that Friday...

The problem with calling football "football" is that you risk confusing your friends who would think of the sport in which 300-lbs guys huff and puff with stop-and-stop-and-more-stop action and still call themselves athletes. ... all the while hardly ever using their feet on the ball.

So who is Cheryl Crow anyway. I could Google it, but that would show that I care.

She sings right?

I was going to ask that myself. In anycase, I doubt she can sing like Katy Steele.

... all the while hardly ever using their feet on the ball.

I've often wondered about that. I mean, there's only really one game in the world that you can call "football". And it's played with a round ball.

I was going to ask that myself. In anycase, I doubt she can sing like Katy Steele.
Not sure who Katy Steele is, but Ms. Crow can write music (she was a music teacher),
play guitar with the best of em (dated Clapton), and actually sing.
Hell, thats more than what most of the so called "divas" can do.

Marty

Not sure who Katy Steele is, but Ms. Crow can write music (she was a music teacher),
play guitar with the best of em (dated Clapton), and actually sing.
Hell, thats more than what most of the so called "divas" can do.

Marty

Yes, Sheryl Crow can write and sing, unlike whatever-her-name-is that obnoxiously screams "I am beautiful..." every time I turn on the radio or that person, whose name I can't recall, who annulled her hours-old marriage.

I've often wondered about that. I mean, there's only really one game in the world that you can call "football". And it's played with a round ball.

I don't get it either. Football should only refers to the most beautiful sport of Maradona's dazzling run against the Belgian defense, van Basten's tight-angle volley against Dasayev, Branco's rocket piercing the Dutch wall, Michael Owen's tearing down the Argentine defense, Ronaldo's poking the ball past Retsu, Rui Costa's blistering shot that left James hopeless, and, god-my-god, Greece's upsetting the defending champions Frenchmen today. Football should be that pure, that beautiful, that thrilling, that electrifying.

Alas, in this country, football refers to that mediocrity of a sport.

Not sure who Katy Steele is,

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=43819

Yes, Sheryl Crow can write and sing, unlike whatever-her-name-is that obnoxiously screams "I am beautiful..." every time I turn on the radio or that person, whose name I can't recall, who annulled her hours-old marriage.


actually the person that sings "I am beautiful" is Christina Aguilera.. and she actually can sing (even though I don't care for her music)... the one that got annulled is Britney Spears.

Ack.. sometimes I retain too much useless knowledge

jeff

actually the person that sings "I am beautiful" is Christina Aguilera.. and she actually can sing (even though I don't care for her music)... the one that got annulled is Britney Spears.

Ack.. sometimes I retain too much useless knowledge

jeff

Thanks. :) I actually knew who they were... just didn't want to say their names because I can't stand them.

Thanks. :) I actually knew who they were... just didn't want to say their names because I can't stand them.
I can stand them,... if its mtv I'm watching with the sound down. :D

You should go to the thai/vietnemese section of a store and get some fish sauce for all those bagles. its made from salt and fermented anchovies for a nice strong smell(not bad but certainly not bagel like). Works great as an ingredient (almost every Thai dish uses it, like soy sauce is in china/japan) but I would not recomend it as a sole flavor for those that don't know its main uses well.

Exactly. My theory is that sports like cycling and soccer don't get the recognition they deserve in the U.S. because they are not "American" sports.

I'm so sick of the fact that it's perfectly fine to not know who Armstrong or Rooney are, but if you don't know who won the World Series or the NBA finals, you are a worthless unpatriotic scumbag. The ironic thing is that the typical baseball/football/basketball fan is fat and lazy, living their athletic life vicariously through the television. They'll tell you soccer/bicycling aren't "real" sports.... like channel surfing and yelling at the T.V. is. :rolleyes:

I find it very ironic that some of the sports which actually command respect for the US as a nation in the world of international competition is largely ignored by the US public. Lance Armstrong and USPS winning 5 TdFs in a row in the grand scheme of things hardly measure a blip on the radar screens of sports here. And what about one of the oldest challenges of US honour? The America's Cup. Do any of this country's so-called patriotic sportsfans follow that? I also find it odd to not think of cycling as an "American sport". It doesn't get any more American than to receive that bicycle for a birthday or for Christmas. Or how about dad teaching the daughter how to ride a bike? Every kid I've known has grown up with a bike. It's such a part of tradition. However, for some reason so many forget because the lure and cultural pressures brainwash people around abouts age 16 that their life should revolve around the automobile.

It doesn't get any more American than to receive that bicycle for a birthday or for Christmas. Or how about dad teaching the daughter how to ride a bike? Every kid I've known has grown up with a bike. It's such a part of tradition.

You're certainly correct in this, but...

Cycling as sport, pro-peloton stuff specifically, is decidedly the antithesis of American sporting ideals. American sports generally prize maximum effort aimed at victory, and Americans love a winner. Cycling has so many unwrritten rules of etiquette, which often stress not going all out at what are deemed inappropriate times, who can attack, whom can be attacked and when, etc. defiance of which can lead one's competitors to, not try to win, but to try to make you lose. And that right there is the big difference to me. In U.S. sports, if you can't beat your opponent, you lose (Mike Tyson notwithstanding.) In cycling, if you can't beat your opponent, you try and prevent him from winning.

Plus, much of Europe hates a winner anyway, preferring instead a heroic loser. Poulidor over Anquetil, for example, or hatred of Merckx, or now Armstrong. (On the flip side, Schumacher is suprisingly popular. Cherchez les Francais?) Americans would love the idea of an underdog coming out of nowhere and going for a win, even if he got crushed by the pack. Europeans would ask who this nobody thinks he is making the stars work to chase him, and he would get a tongue-lashing, at least, between when he was caught and when he was dropped.

Anyway, although we on the fora love it and many Americans might like watching a bike race on TV, if you explained to them what was really going on in the peleton, I don't think most Americans could get their head around it. When I've watched F1 with my more traditional-sports oriented buddies, they go nuts over team orders and the like. To U.S. sensibilities, it just doesn't seem right. I would suggest it's one worldview shaped by a feudal history and one without.

So who is Cheryl Crow anyway. I could Google it, but that would show that I care.

She sings right?
I take it back, I had some PBS music show on last night while I was cleaning the house and my daughter said that it was Cheryl Crow.

I know nothing about music, but she wasn't half bad. She played piano and guitar and sang. She's good looking, but seemed to have more talent than appearance and she didn't look plastic at all. And she's a grownup, not some 20-something eye candy.

Good for Lance.

I take it back, I had some PBS music show on last night while I was cleaning the house and my daughter said that it was Cheryl Crow.

I know nothing about music, but she wasn't half bad. She played piano and guitar and sang. She's good looking, but seemed to have more talent than appearance and she didn't look plastic at all. And she's a grownup, not some 20-something eye candy.

Good for Lance.

Nope she's 40 year old eye candy. Gives us old farts hope :D

Cycling as sport, pro-peloton stuff specifically, is decidedly the antithesis of American sporting ideals. American sports generally prize maximum effort aimed at victory, and Americans love a winner. Cycling has so many unwrritten rules of etiquette, which often stress not going all out at what are deemed inappropriate times, who can attack, whom can be attacked and when, etc. defiance of which can lead one's competitors to, not try to win, but to try to make you lose. And that right there is the big difference to me. In U.S. sports, if you can't beat your opponent, you lose (Mike Tyson notwithstanding.) In cycling, if you can't beat your opponent, you try and prevent him from winning.

I would only half-agree with the all that because when I talk to my baseball fan friends, they all tell me about the eccentrics and subtlenesses in those sports too and there are a few. Every sport I know of has unwritten rules of etiquette. I think that cycling however is much harder to understand because it looks so simple. Everyone understands that the point of a race is to get from A to B in the shortest amount of time. So people think that in a bike race, all one has to do is pedal faster. Simple right? Boring. Those of us who follow the sport of course know it's more complicated than that. One of the things that maybe does work against bike racing in the US is the familiarity and commonness of it all. Everyone did grow up with a bike. They all think it's too common. To them, it would be like watching a shopping cart race (which I have watched and have found exciting :D). What the US audience wants are games and not sports. They want to see things done for which they can't do themselves. They don't realise that it takes more than just pushing the pedals around to compete in a bike race and think that if they can do it themselves then it's not worth watching. They want to see one side pitted against another and hail the victors. Actually they want to celebrate "their team". When "their team" loses, they feel depressed and treat it as if they somehow themselves failed as if they were out there on the field in the competition instead of simply being spectators. US audiences want to live vicariously through "their team". This is probably the reason why there is even the small bit of popularity with Lance and the TdF here now. Have you seen the commercials? "Lance vs the world..." This is the kind of sports attitude the US can identify with. The US can't identify with simply celebrating the achievements... it has to be "their person" or "their team" that "wins".

Another thing I'd like to mention is that bicycle racing is a sport that is a celebration of a certain type of lifestyle. Most bike race fans ride bikes on a regular basis and it's a part of their daily life. They do it to get to work, run errands, maintain their mental and physical health, see sites, etc. I know baseball fans who have developed a lifestyle around baseball (decorate their house with baseball pictures, get their birthday cake with baseball stitching, make their cellphones ring with "Take me Out to the Ballgame", etc) but they've done it the other way around. They've embraced and created a lifestyle around an activity instead of embracing the activity because of their lifestyle. It seems the former method is more popular with the US in general. Most would term it a fad and while it can be a long running fad, we all know how much people in the US love fads.

You're certainly correct in this, but...

Cycling as sport, pro-peloton stuff specifically, is decidedly the antithesis of American sporting ideals.

Plus, much of Europe hates a winner anyway, preferring instead a heroic loser. Poulidor over Anquetil, for example, or hatred of Merckx, or now Armstrong. (On the flip side, Schumacher is suprisingly popular. Cherchez les Francais?) Americans would love the idea of an underdog coming out of nowhere and going for a win, even if he got crushed by the pack. Europeans would ask who this nobody thinks he is making the stars work to chase him, and he would get a tongue-lashing, at least, between when he was caught and when he was dropped.

Anyway, although we on the fora love it and many Americans might like watching a bike race on TV, if you explained to them what was really going on in the peleton, I don't think most Americans could get their head around it. When I've watched F1 with my more traditional-sports oriented buddies, they go nuts over team orders and the like. To U.S. sensibilities, it just doesn't seem right. I would suggest it's one worldview shaped by a feudal history and one without.

Oh, I wouldn't get too ambitious in grand sociological theorizing when it comes to cultural differences over sports. I think the explanation is more mundane. Nowadays, pretty much all of the available market for sports fandom is filled in the U.S. by the present major sports. Nascar's big, but it doesn't rival the big three major sports yet. Even with large numbers of Mexican, Central, and South American immigrants, for example, soccer can't take off in this country. The barriers to entry of new sports are just too high. Just about everyone who might end up following sports already does in the U.S., and non-immigrants are already are interested in other sports.

I doubt there's anything inherently un-American about soccer, for example. True, I can't for the life of me understand what makes that game so interesting to others, but I do concede that if I grew up with it I'd get it. In the U.S., baseball and football captured people's imaginations while the sorting out of public professional sports preferences was still much more flexible. Why was that? Baseball caught on in rural areas around the time of the Civil War, and football was the local variant on older games like rugby and field hockey that people happened to get interested in. These just happened to be the games that people were playing the U.S. at the right time. So when there was finally lots of money available for professional sports-- when industrialization made the country much wealthier in the early 20th century, and when a lot of money was being spent on newly growing cities-- large amounts of capital were invested in the existing sports, interest from media and advertisers centered on those sports, and so the barriers to entry of other sports became very high.

But why these sports, and not, say, soccer? There are plenty of cultural differences between America and Europe that arose because of a century of development after independence and with the Atlantic between the two areas. So, that Americans would be interested in different sports by the beginning of the 20th centry isn't more puzzling than the differences in the language that arose between the U.S. and Britain, or the other differences between American and European customs.

There may be something else specific to say about bicycle racing, though. Cycle racing was big in the U.S. before the adoption of the automobile, but it didn't persist in its primacy for very long. The country was captivated quickly by cars, and by aviation.

I'm just guessing, but I'd think the greater wealth and the larger travel distances of the U.S. compared to Europe made automobiles relatively more appealing to Americans, and left less room in American hearts for bicyclists to capture the sports culture.

Interesting question, though.

Anyway, in short, the problem *now* for cycle racing in the U.S. is that sports interest is pretty much as big as it's going to get with the present population, for the present population sports interest was more or less inherited, and this interest is directed already at other sports. Getting baseball, football, or basketball fans interested in other sports is not realistic. Why things got to this point is more difficult to answer, true.

There may be something else specific to say about bicycle racing, though. Cycle racing was big in the U.S. before the adoption of the automobile, but it didn't persist in its primacy for very long. The country was captivated quickly by cars, and by aviation.

I wish the interest in aviation still exists. There was a time when races like the Bendix Cup or the Thompson Trophy captured the hearts and minds of the American public. Those were competitions that should have held a special place in our culture. They were internationally set with all the majesty, tradition and elegence as only seen today in such things as the Kentucky Derby. The Reno air races pale in comparison to many of the races during the golden age of aviation.

I wish the interest in aviation still exists. There was a time when races like the Bendix Cup or the Thompson Trophy captured the hearts and minds of the American public. Those were competitions that should have held a special place in our culture. They were internationally set with all the majesty, tradition and elegence as only seen today in such things as the Kentucky Derby. The Reno air races pale in comparison to many of the races during the golden age of aviation.

It's true. Those competitions are a thing of the past. It's remarkable, when you think of it, that nearly all of the great breakthroughs in aviation were accomplished by civilians and private designers before WWII. Lindberg was just some guy from Minnesota, for example. The fastest planes built were built by private designers. Not anymore.

Still, there is a lot of interest in private aviation at the lower end. Ultralights, not-so-legal heavier planes, and kit planes are big in the United States now. Oshkosh is a booming concern. You sound like you know about aviation, so you probably know that the FAA is planning to change is regulations to permit many more private planes to be certified, and to allow people who fly smaller, low performance planes to get certified very easily. It could be that we're on the cusp of much more interest in private aviation. If there were tort reform in the private aircraft industry I'd be sure of it. With the developments in engines and materials now, it should be possible for factories to produce quality private aircraft for the price of a higher end SUV or a sports car.

Anyway, as far as Lance is concerned, there may well be plenty in the future to distract us even more from bicycle racing.

The problem with calling football "football" is that you risk confusing your friends who would think of the sport in which 300-lbs guys huff and puff with stop-and-stop-and-more-stop action and still call themselves athletes.

Regarding Lance's situation, I don't think we should judge him without knowing the facts. Marriage is more demanding, more taxing than any climb up l'Ape D'Huez.



American Football players are as athletic in thier own right as any professional athletes are. :mad:

American Football players are as athletic in thier own right as any professional athletes are. :mad:

Even ten pin bowlers and darts players?