Road Cycling - Some bikes are faster than others...

Well people, I am here to tell you that I learned a leason. I had always been a believer that the bike you were riding made very little difference in how fast you can go....

Last night, I did our local Wednesday night ride that leaves Oregon Ridge park in northern Baltimore County, MD at 6 PM for 31 miles of mayhem. Unfortunately for me, I had sheered off the one chainring bolt on my Record crank that holds the rings to the spider the day before and was awaiting a replacement in the mail. So, instead of riding my 2001 Look KG241 I was stuck with my beater - a 1986 Gatane Performace, 24lbs of Columbus steel with downtube shifters. I had not riden the Gatane in over a year.... what a truck! And to think, I used to race on that thing. Well, the pace was blistering right out of the gate and I got relagated to the second group in no time. The Gatane was OK once you got it going, but it would not accelerate.

I would rather ride the Gatane than not ride at all... but man I missed my plastic fantastic....

Well people, I am here to tell you that I learned a leason. I had always been a believer that the bike you were riding made very little difference in how fast you can go....
Last night, I did our local Wednesday night ride that leaves Oregon Ridge park in northern Baltimore County, MD at 6 PM for 31 miles of mayhem. Unfortunately for me, I had sheered off the one chainring bolt on my Record crank that holds the rings to the spider the day before and was awaiting a replacement in the mail. So, instead of riding my 2001 Look KG241 I was stuck with my beater - a 1986 Gatane Performace, 24lbs of Columbus steel with downtube shifters. I had not riden the Gatane in over a year.... what a truck! And to think, I used to race on that thing. Well, the pace was blistering right out of the gate and I got relagated to the second group in no time. The Gatane was OK once you got it going, but it would not accelerate.
I would rather ride the Gatane than not ride at all... but man I missed my plastic fantastic....


Now I'm convinced that: yeah, sometimes is the bike. Twice already on a group ride, there's this guy who surges so easily ahead of everybody when going uphills! He's got this Cannondale R2000 which just rockets itself so far ahead. I'd like to know what GEAR is that.


Corsaire

I've learned the same lesson several times in the past year or so.
My usual ride is my 2001 Litespeed Tuscany. On occasion when it has been "under the weather", I've had to ride my old 1999 Raleigh R600. As you said, "What a truck!"
No wonder I was in such great shape when I was commuting on it. :rolleyes:

A lot of times it is your position on said bike which will make you faster or slower. Im faster on my new bike yes, becuase it is lighter, but also becuase I can ride in the drops with a flat back and am much more aerodynamic.

I know exactly what you are talking about. for the past month, I have been commuting on my fixed gear bianchi touring bike. it rides like smooth , like glass, but weighs about 26-27 pounds with steel wheels. man, when I get back on the lemond, I feel like I'm flying.

This dude I'm talking about he surges the uphills as if he's being pulled by a string (his cadence is not any greater than the rest of us) and he's sitting almost straight when doing it, I wonder what gears he's got...hmmmmm

Corsaire

I've been in similar situations, and I'm still not convinced, at
least as far as flat roads go. There's a perception that
I can't accelerate as quickly, but I always seems to be going
the same speed. On my 'crappier' bikes, the wheels and tyres are
not as good, so I suspect this has as much to do with the sluggish
feel than the extra weight does. I must say though, the difference
between my crappiest bike and my "light" bike is only about 4lbs :)

Hills are a different story; I'm pretty sure the extra 4 lbs slows me down.

What does your LOOK weigh, roughly? If a 17lb bike does make
a difference, I might give myself an excuse to buy one.

ok imagine this; you have 2 bikes the first one weighs 21lbs...the second one weighs 17lbs...thats 4lbs......ok now lose 10 lbs of fat and see what a differance it makes...i still believe 95% rider...5% bike.


kern

My Look is just under 20 LBs for 59 c-c frame. No titanium fastners, steel campy 10 speed freewheel. I do have the Look ergo seatpost and Mavic Ksyruim Elites whicha are way fast, especially on the flats.


I've been in similar situations, and I'm still not convinced, at
least as far as flat roads go. There's a perception that
I can't accelerate as quickly, but I always seems to be going
the same speed. On my 'crappier' bikes, the wheels and tyres are
not as good, so I suspect this has as much to do with the sluggish
feel than the extra weight does. I must say though, the difference
between my crappiest bike and my "light" bike is only about 4lbs :)

Hills are a different story; I'm pretty sure the extra 4 lbs slows me down.

What does your LOOK weigh, roughly? If a 17lb bike does make
a difference, I might give myself an excuse to buy one.

This dude I'm talking about he surges the uphills as if he's being pulled by a string (his cadence is not any greater than the rest of us) and he's sitting almost straight when doing it, I wonder what gears he's got...hmmmmm

Corsaire

maybe he's juz got pure strength?

The Gatane was OK once you got it going, but it would not accelerate.Sounds more like an issue with your wheels. I'd bet that it'd feel a whole lot more responsive if you threw your Ksyrium's on the Gatane (Gitane?)

Yeah! that's it, that guys has Ksyrium's...maybe that's the secret (I've got Cosmos) 'cause I don't think it's his power, on the flats I'm faster, anyway...
Corsaire

this thread is funny. i disagree w/ the premise almost absolutely. i think at the level most of us probably ride, quality of roadbike probably has a negligable effect on speed, so long as it's above a pretty reasonable threshold.

i leave many proper roadies w/ really nice bikes in my dust while riding on my fixed gear piece of junk schwinn that is literally falling apart before my very eyes. their bike, or any other bike for that matter, could not help them keep up w/ me. only riding as much and as hard as i do could. simple as that. i'm not bragging here. it's simply a matter of putting the time and work in.

**Edit: note that there are also _many_ people whom i cannot keep up w/, and i don't think a higher quality bike would help me very much at all. especially up the hills. they're just stronger. simple.

corsaire: maybe this guy you're talking about has put extra time in. maybe his legs are stronger so he pedals a bigger gear while you're pedalling a lower gear at the same cadence up the same incline. these things happen. it's not magic. it's strength.

dan

This dude I'm talking about he surges the uphills as if he's being pulled by a string (his cadence is not any greater than the rest of us) and he's sitting almost straight when doing it, I wonder what gears he's got...hmmmmm

Corsaire

Now I'm gunna sound like a hero whilst stating the bleeding obvious:

Body weight and hills is a totally different world. There are lighter guys I can leave for dead on the flats, but I can only match their speed on climbs. Man, there's one guy who I would out-weigh by at least 45lbs :(

ok imagine this; you have 2 bikes the first one weighs 21lbs...the second one weighs 17lbs...thats 4lbs......ok now lose 10 lbs of fat and see what a differance it makes...i still believe 95% rider...5% bike.


kern
what about wheelset weight? remember angular kinematics ? ;)

Danny boy,

Come on down! bring your fixed gear! I am sure you can whip up on some roadies with high-zoot rides. But, this particular ride is 31 miles through the rolling hills of north Baltimore County (some of the best cycling territory on the east coast). We currently are enterting a New Zealander who participated in the Iron Man 7 times.... and was a former world champion. This guy can motor! The pace of this ride is upwards of 22 MPH.

Galen


this thread is funny. i disagree w/ the premise almost absolutely. i think at the level most of us probably ride, quality of roadbike probably has a negligable effect on speed, so long as it's above a pretty reasonable threshold.

i leave many proper roadies w/ really nice bikes in my dust while riding on my fixed gear piece of junk schwinn that is literally falling apart before my very eyes. their bike, or any other bike for that matter, could not help them keep up w/ me. only riding as much and as hard as i do could. simple as that. i'm not bragging here. it's simply a matter of putting the time and work in.

**Edit: note that there are also _many_ people whom i cannot keep up w/, and i don't think a higher quality bike would help me very much at all. especially up the hills. they're just stronger. simple.

corsaire: maybe this guy you're talking about has put extra time in. maybe his legs are stronger so he pedals a bigger gear while you're pedalling a lower gear at the same cadence up the same incline. these things happen. it's not magic. it's strength.

dan

Now I'm gunna sound like a hero whilst stating the bleeding obvious:

Body weight and hills is a totally different world. There are lighter guys I can leave for dead on the flats, but I can only match their speed on climbs. Man, there's one guy who I would out-weigh by at least 45lbs :(


I think you hit it right on the $$$$. :)

While I agree with both sides of this discussions (it’s the bike & the rider), I have my own interesting anecdote to add-

Back in ’89, I bought a Cannondale touring bike with a triple, rear rack, etc. A couple years later I converted to an Ultegra double and lighter wheels, but I kept the rack.

In ’94, I bought a Trek 2300 (carbon tubes, aluminum lugs & stays, Ultegra STI’s). The Trek was clearly lighter than the Cannondale, though I never measured the weight of either bike.

Guess what? I NEVER rode the Trek as fast over my moderately hilly 20 mile loop as my best times on the Cannondale. Certainly, there are lots of factors to consider, but I think my overall fitness was still increasing when I bought the Trek. I do know the Trek FELT faster, but the data didn’t show it.

I’ve got some theories; I could have been in better shape riding the Cannondale or the Cannondale could be stiffer and therefore more efficient. Either way, I don’t think the weight of the bike made a measurable difference in my performance.

I’ve since moved and upgraded to a LeMond Zurich frame so I can’t compare to the Cannondale since I hardly ever ride it.


Some more food for thought, a 4 lb difference in bike weight would make about a 2.2% difference assuming a 180 lb bike + rider. Applying a 2.2% improvement to an hour ride would yield 80 seconds, but that assumes ALL of your effort goes towards fighting gravity as opposed to air resistance and other factors. Giving gravity a generous 1/4 of total resistance, 80 seconds becomes 20 seconds – hardly worth the cost!

OTOH, when the pack is accelerating away from you on a 10% grade, I’d take the 2.2% of help if I could get it!

-murray

Danny boy,

Come on down! bring your fixed gear! I am sure you can whip up on some roadies with high-zoot rides. But, this particular ride is 31 miles through the rolling hills of north Baltimore County (some of the best cycling territory on the east coast). We currently are enterting a New Zealander who participated in the Iron Man 7 times.... and was a former world champion. This guy can motor! The pace of this ride is upwards of 22 MPH.

Galen

it sounds very nice down there. now that i have a car, i actually can get to slightly far away places. is there somewhere online which details rides in your area? i'm not far away in philly, so going down there on a saturday isn't out of the question. 22mph is a little out of my range over rollers. one of the rides i do up here averages close to 20 and thats about all i can handle right now.

again, i didn't mean to brag or imply that i thought i was tougher or any of that stuff. i just meant to illustrate a point that i think the bike means very little in the equation of speed for most riders at our level. notice how when you were talking about the new zealander, you told me about his accomplishments, not the bike he rides. the bike just isn't that important. it may be more fun or whatever to have a really nice bike, and that's great. more power to you. i just think...you know what i think.

All things being close to equal, the biggest difference would be the wheels. I've heard people with my bike say that after they updated the wheels it was like being pushed. The weight factor is probably less important than the airodynamics. But when the two are combined the differece can be like night and day. My next upgrade are wheels.

Wow, your 22lb 1986 vintage bike is not as good as your modern 16lb bike. Who woulda guessed! That's a revelation, lemme write that one down.....

....yet Merckx would smoke us all on that Gitane of yours. Yeah, you're right, it IS the bike.

:rolleyes:

I've heard crank arm length can make a difference too. Is the crankset on your Gatane the same spec as your Look? Some say longer arms offer more leverage and make for a faster bike (particularly for taller riders).

Hey its all physics. The > the weight the more energy required to move it. So buy that cheaper heavier bike and loose a few lbs of flesh instead. Quite frankly though.... there is nothing like the feel and handling of a light bike with good geometry. Personal opinion.

Hey its all physics. The > the weight the more energy required to move it. So buy that cheaper heavier bike and loose a few lbs of flesh instead. Quite frankly though.... there is nothing like the feel and handling of a light bike with good geometry. Personal opinion.

I didnt know KE=.5mv^2 was the only law in physics... you take your 10lb bike & 8lb wheels... ill take my 13lb bike & 5lb wheels and we'll race :D

I didnt know KE=.5mv^2 was the only law in physics... you take your 10lb bike & 8lb wheels... ill take my 13lb bike & 5lb wheels and we'll race :D
Ah..... but there is one more variable to add to the equation.......rider strength.