Great Lakes - Cyclocross Clutter

Started this thread to keep our cross banter from further distracting those following the Crash 4 saga from Winfield. To recap the cross noise from there:

Mayo broke a wrist and Supergirl's 2009 tour is in doubt.

Flanders upgraded to 3's, challenged Psimet to do the same, and wants everybody in costume for halloween. He also thinks Psi has nice legs.

Psimet has a cheerleader costume fetish and can't get his mind off of cross, even though the road season is FINALLY starting to heat up around here.

Did I miss anything?

Now, to carry on the conversation... Psimet- I'll consider the 3's if Beverly Bob does. If he races 4's, I'm racing 4's. I'm racing where Bob races.

I would race where Flanders races but I've got no shot of keeping up with him. Think I beat him once last year (Lansing) and I'm fairly certain he has not yet forgotten the verbal abuse I meted out in the process. I'm not sure my fragile ego could handle the payback that I'd completely deserve... All season long.

Unrelated to that, some of the chicrosscup races have already applied for permits and are listed on the USAC web page.

Ahhhh.....cross. Can't believe I wasn't sure I liked it when I started it last year.

I think I am thinking a out it because my road formjust isn't where I want it to be.

damn i do love cross now. i got my cross season all planned out.

This is inspiring...I was considering getting a cross bike or new wheels. I was given the advice, "Forget new wheels, cross is FUN". Now that I have to get a new wheel (mentioned in the Crash 4 thread) I may have to re-think the wheels I get.

This is inspiring...I was considering getting a cross bike or new wheels. I was given the advice, "Forget new wheels, cross is FUN". Now that I have to get a new wheel (mentioned in the Crash 4 thread) I may have to re-think the wheels I get.

Get cheap wheels. I don't think my Ultegra/Open Pro's have cost me any positions in a race.

Then get a cheap cross bike. Like, if you can't afford one, buy an old hybrid and make it work. I don't see why somebody who really wants to get into cross around here can't do so for $300.

Get cheap wheels. I don't think my Ultegra/Open Pro's have cost me any positions in a race.

Then get a cheap cross bike. Like, if you can't afford one, buy an old hybrid and make it work. I don't see why somebody who really wants to get into cross around here can't do so for $300.

That's because you are young and strong...I need every advantage I can get!!

Or run an MTB with CX tires... that's my solution for 2009 (ran MTB tires last year). I'd be in the middle to back anyway and as stated, this dicipline seems to be more about fun and alcohol hand-ups.

Or run an MTB with CX tires... that's my solution for 2009 (ran MTB tires last year). I'd be in the middle to back anyway and as stated, this dicipline seems to be more about fun and alcohol hand-ups.

Only in Wisconsin, my man. They've disqualified folks for that here. We're not allowed to have any fun.

I think a 29er with CX tires won't put you at any disadvantage. But, what do I know... I like junky, heavy aluminum frames and bar end shifting.

Cross is Cross. Get out there and do it regardless of what you have to ride.

I personally think you learn so much about handling and falling, etc. .....maybe that's why I don't really care much about the bump and grind in the road packs.

I helped sell a cross bike last night. You missed out on that deal for sure. NOS Blue Cross frame and fork went for cost. Yowza!

I have cross on the brain.....now...to go find a winter/insulated cheerleading uniform that will fit a short and fat man.....

...in celeste.....

In Heaven, there is no beer .... that's why we drink it here ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpyzMTwMDXY&feature=related

(and if you're real nice ... we'll even set you on fire! :roflmao2: )

In Heaven, there is no beer .... that's why we drink it here ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpyzMTwMDXY&feature=related

The Frankie Yankovic version of that song is way better (but I couldn't find a video with bikes).

Even so, that song pales in all respects when compared to the true classic "Who Stole the Kiszka".

Cross is Cross. Get out there and do it regardless of what you have to ride.

Well yes and no. If I don't have a bike that would come close to working for cross, I would be discouraged. I was considering using my Trek 5000 road bike but the brakes only allow a thin slick tires Given that people are all over the course with cross tires, the ones I have would not work. I don't have a MTB bike. Hence my looking for a cross bike (54).

Well yes and no. If I don't have a bike that would come close to working for cross, I would be discouraged. I was considering using my Trek 5000 road bike but the brakes only allow a thin slick tires Given that people are all over the course with cross tires, the ones I have would not work. I don't have a MTB bike. Hence my looking for a cross bike (54).

Do it on the cheap, man. Ride something like this bad boy:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/1259729959.html

Don't like the flat bar look? You could convert it to drop bars, brake levers, and some sort of indexed, non-STI shifting for another $100 or so if you're thrifty.

We've got a guy on our team who took an old steal Schwinn road bike (with better tire clearance), bought a nashbar cross fork and is running a canti up front and regular road brake in back. Seems to me an ok setup as the mud around here is not as bad as people like to fear.

I would race where Flanders races but I've got no shot of keeping up with him. Think I beat him once last year (Lansing) and I'm fairly certain he has not yet forgotten the verbal abuse I meted out in the process. I'm not sure my fragile ego could handle the payback that I'd completely deserve... All season long.



You forgot to mention that I spotted you a lap at Lansing (In the 4Bs I always rolled around in last place until space opened up on the 2nd lap, then tried to pass as many as I could). It was also my 4th race of the weekend.

You had a better chance of beating me at Whitewater, the beach and the hill were taking its toll on me then. Well, officially you did beat me because the judges missed you getting lapped..

Otherwise, I'm going to upgrade to the 3s sometime during the season, would like to get some top 10s in the 4s first. The other thing is that the 3s race way too early for me, I'll have to get up at 5 am or so on Sundays to make it in time. Maybe just do the elite race and count how many times I get lapped.

Psi does have nice legs.

Most importantly, Cross is all about the engine. You can throw as much moolah as you like at a bike an dequipment, but it won't make you go more than a couple of seconds faster. I've often raced faster on my heavy singlespeed, just because I was forced to go hard instead of shifting down. The biggest advantage is to be gained from training skills - smooth through corners without losing momentum and smooth over barriers and remounting.

It's also most important to note that the Chicrosscup courses are highly non-technical, well-groomed and have no mud of significance. You can race on just about anything, don't really need to worry about clearance or be fussy about brakes. Try to make sure that your bike fits you and pay attention to your tire pressure. The Wisconsin courses are a bit rougher and require a bit more pure cross. A hardtail MTB should also do fine on them though.

80s roadbike should work fine for cross with some minor adaptations. Cross on!

MJH2, if you beat me I'll give you a big hug. I know you like huggies!

btw, if you go to the ICA website and click on the tab for the chicrosscup, it shows a google map with dates and places of next seasons cross races. Start planning now.

I'm going to do all the Saturday races in WI as well, Mondays have been hard for me at work recovering from Sunday's exertions.

http://illinoiscycling.org/index.php?module=Pages&func=display&pageid=8

http://wicycling.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=10

...in celeste.....

Start here:

http://www.teamsportswear.com/personalized/cheer/category.php

http://www.teamsportswear.com/product/4434

Don't forget the briefs!

http://www.logosoftwear.com/images_products2/7589/7589.image.jpg

LIVESTRONG SHISH BOOM BAH!

You forgot to mention that I spotted you a lap at Lansing (In the 4Bs I always rolled around in last place until space opened up on the 2nd lap, then tried to pass as many as I could). It was also my 4th race of the weekend.

You had a better chance of beating me at Whitewater, the beach and the hill were taking its toll on me then. Well, officially you did beat me because the judges missed you getting lapped..






Oh, I forgot nothing. I may not have mentioned a thing or two... But I forgot nothing!

I'd have had a much better shot at beating a lot of folks at Whitewater had I not walked my bike up the hill on the second lap. I was as quick as anybody through the sand... mostly because my protective layer of blubber allowed me to ride IN the lake where you in-shape wussies opted to stay dry.

But I digress... I'm almost sensing a "Beat the Flanders" challenge here. I'm man enough to fail at any challenge. How long are you staying a 4, again...

On a serious note, I've got an extra bedroom if you and Ms. Flanders and Doggie Flanders ever need housing on one of your cyclocross weekends. I'm in 60134, so within an hour of almost every CX race.

Thanks for the offer MJH2, just might take you up on that one of the days.

I'll stop the smacktalk because it usually ends up with me eating crow at some stage.

Mrs F is the real huggie monster, just in case you are huggie-deficient at any time.

what size cross bike. i got an 09 scott team cx for sale size 54

working on a huge race this year that will replace Lansing. If it all comes together it could be one of the best races of the year. Big prize list, great course (golf course), beer, food, fun. Hope to have the permit within a week or so.

you guys are gonna love it.

wow what a tease. any tentative date

wow what a tease. any tentative date

If I were a betting man, I'd say around 11/15 at some place called Indian Lake.

I think that might be a secret (except for having just been posted on the cyclocross magazine site).

damn, how'd they get it already?

damn, how'd they get it already?

No idea. Our team has historically put on Campton/St. Charles and I haven't even heard anybody on the team mention it so...

I do know that as you people have been applying for permits the USAC has been adding dates to the web page...

http://www.usacycling.org/events/index.php?state=IL&race=Road

I think it's Imelda. We had a chat at Soldier Field.
http://www.indianlakesresort.com/

things are coming together nicely

Bloomingdale? I could ride there! Too bad you're not keeping it down in the "dangerous" south side. I liked getting back "home". Plus, that pancake flat course from last year was right up my alley!

20-Sep Jackson park
4-Oct Dekalb
11-Oct Hawthorne woods
18-Oct Carpentersville
25-Oct Bartlet, Sunrise park
1-Nov St Charles/Campton
8-Nov Northbrook
15-Nov Indian Lakes
22-Nov Woodstock
6-Dec Montrose Harbour

All on Sundays.

How's about a Saturday race for a change?

saturdays are for the cheese lovers.

I was thinking I hadn't heard anything about St Chucks either but RK runs all of that stuff and just does it....doesn't even involve anyone....and it;s not like we have team meetings or like out cat 1/2's know how to use email or the forum....:rolleyes:

Bloomingdale? I could ride there! Too bad you're not keeping it down in the "dangerous" south side. I liked getting back "home". Plus, that pancake flat course from last year was right up my alley!

I live there :) Right across the street almost, walking distance. This will be groovy to go and watch. Need to catch the Bartlett one as well. I haven't watched a cross race live yet, shall be cool to see.

cheese is good. just travel up to wi race on sat then come race on sunday.

Only in Wisconsin, my man. They've disqualified folks for that here. We're not allowed to have any fun.

I think a 29er with CX tires won't put you at any disadvantage. But, what do I know... I like junky, heavy, FLEXY aluminum frames and bar end shifting.

Yes, yes you do.

CAAD9>Streetfire.:roflmao2:

Yes, yes you do.

CAAD9>Streetfire.:roflmao2:

Prove it!

And then prove it's better to the point that would make a difference in the average crit.

(could be pretty hard for somebody who's never ridden either)

....and finishes OTB with psimet....

....and finishes OTB with psimet....

I think I remember leaving you in the dust in the sprint WITH junior gearing so...suck it Psi:D

Matt, it's better. I'll prove it to you when I get mine and let you ride it and then watch you cream your bibs when you sprint on it. And I've ridden both, the CAAD9 is better.

I think I remember leaving you in the dust in the sprint WITH junior gearing so...suck it Psi:D

Matt, it's better. I'll prove it to you when I get mine and let you ride it and then watch you cream your bibs when you sprint on it. And I've ridden both, the CAAD9 is better.

Well, now you've changed your tune from "stiffer" to "better"... and even less quantifiable, more subjective attribute.

Not to mention that you'd be comparing a new cannondale to a frame design nearly 4 years old.

I've written this in other threads on here to the point that it almost hurts. To say that either one of those frames is so spectacularly better that it will make an actual difference in race placings of an "average" recreational racer is silly. They're both good frames... as are the Cervelo and the Cinelli (it's not like the Streetfire was the only AL bike I considered).

Undoubtedly the cannondale is better when you factor in price, as they're so cheaply had on the secondary market, but that doesn't take anything away from the others performance wise.

This is a cyclocross thread. So, lets keep it a little on topic:

What super-stiff, AL cross bike are you buying? I hope you spend a ton on one... so I can laugh as I pedal past on my cheapie Nashbar rig!

Prove it!

And then prove it's better to the point that would make a difference in the average crit.

(could be pretty hard for somebody who's never ridden either)

I rest my case. (http://www.cervelo.com/reviews/Flexing%20Their%20Muscles.pdf)

The CAAD9 is nearly as stiff as the Scott CR1 and the Cervelo R3 in lateral stiffness and is THE stiffest frame tested in bottom bracket stiffness. The test was put on by Velonews a while ago. I highly, highly doubt that the Streetfire is even close to the CAAD9 in stiffness.

BMC Streetfire weighs 1588 grams in a size 54 frame only. Found Here. (http://www.cyclerscafe.com/RoadBikes/BMC/StreetfireSSX.aspx)

The CAAD9 as measured in a size 56 weighs 1374 grams frame only. Check the velonews test.

Therefore, the CAAD9 is stiffer and lighter than the BMC Streetfire. I will concede that your Frame is *probably* more durable than the CAAD9, but the CAAD9 is a very cheap frame when bought with Cannondale's crash replacement discount and is thus a better buy. The BMC is *probably* more expensive when not on sale at Competitive Cyclist. I cannot say whether or not the stiffness difference or the weight difference is noticeable, as that depends on the rider's weight and power output.

We the people, find the defendant, MJH2, guilty of bull$hit. :D

This is a joke, right?

Now you're adding another factor: Weight. I never said the Streetfire frame wasn't a piggy. I also know that the thin tubing of the CAAD frames leads to all the dented top tubes (which really does mitigate the CAAD cost advantage, if you think about it).

Find some sort of study that actually involves the BMC, pusscakes.

This is a joke, right?

Now you're adding another factor: Weight. I never said the Streetfire frame wasn't a piggy. I also know that the thin tubing of the CAAD frames leads to all the dented top tubes (which really does mitigate the CAAD cost advantage, if you think about it).

Find some sort of study that actually involves the BMC, pusscakes.

I can't, because such a test doesn't exist. Nobody has ever tested the BMC head-to-head against the CAAD9 because it has never been considered to be within the same league as the CAAD9. The dented top tubes are kind of annoying, but they do not cause the frame to fail. In fact, I would say that most of those dents are superficial and do no effect the structural integrity of the frame.

Response to Matt's edit: It would likely not help me finish higher, but that is a moot point as there are so many variables to me finishing higher such as time spent in the wind, my lack of sprinting ability, etc. I would like to see YOU prove, however, that it would not help me finish higher. By the way, the original argument was based on which frame is stiffer. I have given links to a test where the CAAD9 is compared to frames that cost thousands of dollars more. The BMC, as far as I know, has never been involved in such a test. The EFBE test also ranks the CAAD9 as a "Top Performance" frame in its results.

This is hilarious....all that's missing is a round of beers for me and a crowd to listen.....wait...jsut the beers I guess.

I can't, because such a test doesn't exist. Nobody has ever tested the BMC head-to-head against the CAAD9 because it has never been considered to be within the same league as the CAAD9. The dented top tubes are kind of annoying, but they do not cause the frame to fail. In fact, I would say that most of those dents are superficial and do no effect the structural integrity of the frame.


Yes. You and your high school diploma would say that.


Response to Matt's edit: It would likely not help me finish higher, but that is a moot point as there are so many variables to me finishing higher such as time spent in the wind, my lack of sprinting ability, etc. I would like to see YOU prove, however, that it would not help me finish higher. By the way, the original argument was based on which frame is stiffer. I have given links to a test where the CAAD9 is compared to frames that cost thousands of dollars more. The BMC, as far as I know, has never been involved in such a test. The EFBE test also ranks the CAAD9 as a "Top Performance" frame in its results.

Your admission that there are so many variables that the frame would not help you finish higher is an admission that your persistence in demonstrating the CAAD9 to be stiffer is silly, and a waste of time.

And, I don't have to prove anything, because I never made the unsupported statement that one was "way stiffer" than the other. You, on the other hand did. And then you kept telling me how much stiffness matters...

I stand by my opinion that recreational cyclists fret way to much over such stupid, unimportant bs. If you'd take that money you're planning to put into a CAAD9 frame and spent it on coaching and training, you'd be faster on any reasonably put together race bike than you will on that CAAD9.

Joel just won another race on an aluminum Trek that won't appear on any stiffness comparisons. Why don't you explain your theory of bottom bracket flex to him. See if he thinks it's holding him back.

...or tell Rob Kelley about how is flexy Ridley can't take him as far in cycling as a CAAD9 would.

Yes. You and your high school diploma would say that.


Your admission that there are so many variables that the frame would not help you finish higher is an admission that your persistence in demonstrating the CAAD9 to be stiffer is silly, and a waste of time.

And, I don't have to prove anything, because I never made the unsupported statement that one was "way stiffer" than the other. You, on the other hand did. And then you kept telling me how much stiffness matters...

I stand by my opinion that recreational cyclists fret way to much over such stupid, unimportant bs. If you'd take that money you're planning to put into a CAAD9 frame and spent it on coaching and training, you'd be faster on any reasonably put together race bike than you will on that CAAD9.

Joel just won another race on an aluminum Trek that won't appear on any stiffness comparisons. Why don't you explain your theory of bottom bracket flex to him. See if he thinks it's holding him back.

I will admit that me proving the CAAD9 to be stiffer is a silly waste of time, however this is bikeforums and the simple act of posting on here is a silly waste of time. I will also concede that the training and coaching would help more, however, I can't afford a powertap, my heart rate is too variable to train off of, and Kelly charges $100 a month for training. So, I've got nothing else left to buy but bike schwag.

Its probably as flexy as the Salsa I want....

BTW - Chevelle,....don't argue with a lawyer. What I find works best is I find something very incriminating about someone else and divert MJH2 to that tidbit of information when he's riding my case.

I have a juicy piece about Riccio I am just waiting to deploy...

...or tell Rob Kelley about how is flexy Ridley can't take him as far in cycling as a CAAD9 would.

Nobody tells Mr. Kelley what to do except Mrs. Kelley.

However, if I were Mrs. Kelley, I would tell him to get rid of that POS Ridley and pick up a CAAD9 ASAP.:p

BTW - Chevelle,....don't argue with a lawyer. What I find works best is I find something very incriminating about someone else and divert MJH2 to that tidbit of information when he's riding my case.

I have a juicy piece about Riccio I am just waiting to deploy...


I was under the impression that I am riding MJH2's case. Can you please PM me with this juicy tidbit?

BTW - Chevelle,....don't argue with a lawyer. What I find works best is I find something very incriminating about someone else and divert MJH2 to that tidbit of information when he's riding my case.

I have a juicy piece about Riccio I am just waiting to deploy...

I care about none of that.

But this fun thread has been seriously derailed. No more of this sillyness.


Resume talk of mud, superhero's and the general way-too-uptightness of the greater chicago cross community now!

I care about none of that.

But this fun thread has been seriously derailed. No more of this sillyness.


Resume talk of mud, superhero's and the general way-too-uptightness of the greater chicago cross community now!

:innocent: (leaves thread because he hasn't got the money or interest for cyclocross...)