"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Question about racing (criteriums)

The National Criterium Championship is coming to my town in August and I was wondering what kind of speed/shape would I need to be in to race Cat 5 (20min +1 lap). I have never raced, and not sure I will but though I could get an idea of what is involved from here.

I ride avg 17mph on a 30 mile route of stop lights quick but steep hills.

I could be in better shape, getting there tough.

Would this be realistic, or am I high and should I just train for next years?


Thanks

Chris

Have you done a bunch of fast group rides?

If the answer is no, then you have no business entering. Sorry.

Have you done a bunch of fast group rides?

If the answer is no, then you have no business entering. Sorry.

The point being you need to be competent at riding at high speed in close proximity to other riders while braking, accelerating, cornering.... Otherwise you will cause a crash and cause bodily harm to other people ..... not fun.

The point being you need to be competent at riding at high speed in close proximity to other riders while braking, accelerating, cornering.... Otherwise you will cause a crash and cause bodily harm to other people ..... not fun.

Says Mr. I bumpted RTC off his teammate's wheel with 2 to go at the KB Crit.

Are you doing New britain on sunday?

Have you done a bunch of fast group rides?

If the answer is no, then you have no business entering. Sorry.

This is what a load of sh&t, a crock, a bunch of bull, or a cockamamie must look like.

It's cat 5. Guys race cat 5 in shorts and a T-shirt.

Why the hell National Criterium Championships have a category 5 race is another story.

To the OP: Go race your bike if you want to, be safe, and have fun. You don't need permission from anyone. (well, USA cycling maybe)

crdy, there are training crits every tuesday evening in the south suburbs (south chicago wheelmen host) and that would an excellent opportunity to try racing in a low pressure learning environment.

But I agree with all the above posts...group rides, and for exactly the same reasons Homebrew lists. Check the Great Lakes forum. There are a bunch of north/west suburban teams that host fast rides. That will give you an opportunity to chat with people too...

I'm going to miss downers grove yet again this year. bummer....

The National Criterium Championship is coming to my town in August and I was wondering what kind of speed/shape would I need to be in to race Cat 5 (20min +1 lap). I have never raced, and not sure I will but though I could get an idea of what is involved from here.

I ride avg 17mph on a 30 mile route of stop lights quick but steep hills.

I could be in better shape, getting there tough.

Would this be realistic, or am I high and should I just train for next years?


Thanks

Chris

There's really only one way to find out. I would recommend some group ride experience, but honestly, it's Cat friggin 5. There aren't going to be many great bike handlers in your race. Give it a shot, see how you do. If you get dropped, you aren't there yet. If you don't, good for you! Lots of people get dropped in their first crit. And just so you know, most people consider the constant surging in crits to be much worse than the average pace. I have pretty good anaerobic capacity, and for me the surging isn't too bad (though if you're on your limit it WILL make things even worse, I can tell you from experience); so it partly depends upon your natural strengths and/or what your training has emphasized.

This is what a load of sh&t, a crock, a bunch of bull, or a cockamamie must look like.

It's cat 5. Guys race cat 5 in shorts and a T-shirt.

Why the hell National Criterium Championships have a category 5 race is another story.

To the OP: Go race your bike if you want to, be safe, and have fun. You don't need permission from anyone. (well, USA cycling maybe)

1) They don't. It's a "regular" race for category racers.
2) definitely

Before people say to just go and race this one--its NOT a simple 4 corner crit. It's a technical 8 turn course with nice little kickers in it. Learning to ride with others is a damn fine thing to put on a pre-race "to do list" and should be encouraged for all new racers. Not, mind you, at the barrel of a gun--but strongly encouraged nevertheless.

I wouldn't make Downers my first race if I were you.....


Plenty of races around here between now and then. Hell I am doing 8 in 5 days starting this Saturday.

I ride avg 17mph on a 30 mile route of stop lights quick but steep hills.

I could be in better shape, getting there tough.

Would this be realistic, or am I high and should I just train for next years?


Thanks

Chris

Chris - didn't read the rest of this the first time - sorry. Some advice...first - there are no steep hills around here. Second - are you a little slow for the cat 5 fields around here? Yes, but just slightly. Most cat 5 racers I have known in this area average in the 18-20 range over 30 miles when riding alone- keeping in mind that average speed is a bad measure but if you're in this area then all of the terrain is basically the same so it gives a good indication.

So should you skip it and train for next year? No. Will you get dropped? Probably. Here's the thing though....almost everyone does. Everyone except exceptional athletes with good genetics or internet tough guys.

You will never be able to train yourself into the intensity that is needed to hang on in races by training alone. You have to race. Most suggest going to fast group rides and that's great advice. These rides are usually pseudo races anyway. I will give you experience riding in a pack at speed so that you don't kill yourself or others.

....but...you will never appreciate the speed of racing until you do it. You also just won't be able to tell when you're going hard enoughin training until you've done it in a race and know it's possible.

That's my opinion.

As for getting back to the speed discussion...those cat 5's that ride between 18-20 on their own will average 24-26mph in the races around here. It's one of the things that happens on fast flat crits with a bunch of fat cat 5's that provide a ton of drafting and are constantly chasing anything that moves. (we're all fat BTW).

Come out to some races during Superweek. Go to one and you're going to want to enter the next one.

Please do not make Downers Grove your first race.

Not trying to be a dick, but that is a fast, tight course where inexperience, even at the Category 5 level, can be dangerous.

There are plenty of other races and courses coming up in IL that would be far more friendly to a beginner racer; check out the Fall Fling and some of the other early fall races.

This is what a load of sh&t, a crock, a bunch of bull, or a cockamamie must look like.

It's cat 5. Guys race cat 5 in shorts and a T-shirt.

Why the hell National Criterium Championships have a category 5 race is another story.

To the OP: Go race your bike if you want to, be safe, and have fun. You don't need permission from anyone. (well, USA cycling maybe)

Your inexperience is showing. Move along now.

Not sure what your race experience is because you've posted about doing 4/5 races, so I'm going to guess you're a 5.

Sending someone with little to no group ride experience into a technical crit is a stupid idea. Everyone else here agrees.

Edit: Apologizing for dooshbaggery.

Sending someone with little to no group ride experience into a technical crit is a stupid idea. Everyone else here agrees.+1

it's less a question of fitness than experience. especially if someone lives in an area where there are group rides to learn how to ride in a group. almost no one should enter a crit without some group riding experience

psimet is spot on. you will never appreciate race speed until you do it. but having said that its best to work your way up. if only out of respect for the sport.

To the OP, read the thread stickied at the the top of the 33:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380788

There's a 5 race at the nationals?

and


It's a 5 race....do it. That's the point. The rest of the guys are 5s as well. Most 3s can't handle a bike, never mind 5s. A technical crit is SAFER, because gaps will open and the race will break apart, and hopefully they pull riders.

Says Mr. I bumpted RTC off his teammate's wheel with 2 to go at the KB Crit.

Are you doing New britain on sunday?

I did ? So you should have grabbed my wheel :D

I'll be at NB doing the 35+ and 45+

Say hi

Your inexperience is showing. Move along now.

Not sure what your race experience is because you've posted about doing 4/5 races, so I'm going to guess you're a 5.

Sending someone with little to no group ride experience into a technical crit is a stupid idea. Everyone else here agrees.

Coming from the same guy who just a few days ago tried to explain the difference between striking the ground with his pedals, and touching the ground with his pedals (and justify his sloppy bike handling skills), I find this hysterical.

Not sure what your race experience is because you've posted about doing 4/5 races, so I'm going to guess you're a 5.


Whats wrong with that? The question is about entering a Cat. 5 race, not a Cat. 2 race. The Cat. 2 can throw in their opinion about what it was like racing cat. 5 ~ 3 years ago, or the Cat. 5 can give his opinion about how it was to race Cat. 5 last weekend. I think he should be able to put in his two cents, no need to belittle him for it.

Coming from the same guy who just a few days ago tried to explain the difference between striking the ground with his pedals, and touching the ground with his pedals (and justify his sloppy bike handling skills), I find this hysterical.


Plungergirl.jpeg

OP can do what he wants but he asked our opinion, and many racers (but clearly not all) will say that it's a good idea to have at least some pack riding experience before endangering others.

OP can do what he wants but he asked our opinion, and many racers (but clearly not all) will say that it's a good idea to have at least some pack riding experience before endangering others.

Sure. But there's a huge difference between suggesting he needs pack skills and saying "move along now", especially when it's coming from an internet tough guy who by his own account of his skills is "that guy".

And, we are talking about a cat5 crit. My first cat5 crit had a dude with jorts, t-shirt, and vans on.

So, back on topic.. OP, read the thread I posted above especially Botto's guide to racing. And have fun.

Remember, everyone here was a beginner at one point (and some still are).

I'd just like to understand the skill set this imaginary group of cat fives posses. I fear their upgrade.

Coming from the same guy who just a few days ago tried to explain the difference between striking the ground with his pedals, and touching the ground with his pedals (and justify his sloppy bike handling skills), I find this hysterical.

Hay now.

I may or may not have been tipsy writing that!

Glad to have made you laugh.

Sure. But there's a huge difference between suggesting he needs pack skills and saying "move along now", especially when it's coming from an internet tough guy who by his own account of his skills is "that guy".

And, we are talking about a cat5 crit. My first cat5 crit had a dude with jorts, t-shirt, and vans on.

So, back on topic.. OP, read the thread I posted above especially Botto's guide to racing. And have fun.

Remember, everyone here was a beginner at one point (and some still are).

Take that back now!

I'm not a tough guy by any stretch of the imagination.

:innocent:

Whats wrong with that? The question is about entering a Cat. 5 race, not a Cat. 2 race. The Cat. 2 can throw in their opinion about what it was like racing cat. 5 ~ 3 years ago, or the Cat. 5 can give his opinion about how it was to race Cat. 5 last weekend. I think he should be able to put in his two cents, no need to belittle him for it.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm a 4...

The point remains that it's a bad idea to enter a technical crit if you're a recreational rider with little to no group riding experience.

Didn't mean to belittle him. The comment came out way wrong. Blah.

Take that back now!

I'm not a tough guy by any stretch of the imagination.

:innocent:

OK, I may have crossed a line there. So I apologize.

"Slap happy camper" would have been more apropos. :roflmao2:

OK, I may have crossed a line there. So I apologize.

"Slap happy camper" would have been more apropos. :roflmao2:

Well, I edited my 2nd comment as well. It wasn't meant as a put down.

That being said, I probably won't ever pedal through corners I know I shouldn't be pedaling through ever again. So I suppose your job is done ;)

Well, I edited my 2nd comment as well. It wasn't meant as a put down.

That being said, I probably won't ever pedal through corners I know I shouldn't be pedaling through ever again. So I suppose your job is done ;)

Don't take it personally. I just feel that anything we can do to encourage people to get into racing benefits all of us in the long run.

Don't take it personally. I just feel that anything we can do to encourage people to get into racing benefits all of us in the long run.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just felt that the OP would have been in a bit over their head.

I don't care what anyone wears or what bike they ride. I just want to know that anyone in a race can competently handle themselves in tight conditions. Crashes happen in cat 5, and the TdF ..... the idea is to reduce the chances by being as prepared as possible.

Don't take it personally. I just feel that anything we can do to encourage people to get into racing benefits all of us in the long run.

Agreed, and I don't know this crit or this course or the OP, but I think it's worth saying that the best way to get somebody into racing is to give them info and resources on how to prepare themselves to race, not just say "go race" and slap 'em on the ass on their way out. If they are unprepared and have a bad experience, their first race could be their last.

I will again say that this is a cat 5 race and by definition they are all unprepared.

I will again say that this is a cat 5 race and by definition they are all unprepared.

Respectfully disagreed.

Some are more unprepared than others.

OP, its Superweek. You can find a race ANYDAY of the week for the rest of the month starting tomorrow! Link. (http://www.internationalcycling.com/schedule.shtml)

Downers Grove is August 15.

You have plenty of time to try your hand before DG. Don't let the hot air on this page scare you away. Racing is hard as hell...and a great thrill. After your first race you can be proud to have finished it. Everyone here is talking about risks inherent to bike racing...crashes result from inexperience and from plain stupidity--from pros to cat 5s. That said, you have plenty of time to 1) find a good group ride, 2) try a more simple crit course and 3) still race Downers Grove if you want.

see you out there!

Here is a link to local teams and their rides (http://www.chicagobikeracing.com/index.php/rides)--if you are interested. Most people are very cool, just introduce yourself, let them know you are new to group riding and that you'd like to race someday...perhaps soon.

Even if you decide not to race this season, getting involved with the right group/team is simply awesome--especially for your fitness.

Good luck and have fun!

I will again say that this is a cat 5 race and by definition they are all unprepared.

My experience and observations disagrees with that statement, at least locally. Everyone who wants to try racing owes it to themselves and others to at least practice riding with other people first.

I'm not really certain how anyone is intuiting that the OP doesn't have the pack skills to race. His question was basically 'will I get dropped' (yes, btw). But ok, other things to do. I totally disagree with you guys. Most threes can't corner, and a neophyte will get get dropped in a technical crit long before he poses a danger to anyone. Generally speaking, 2s under 21 can't corner either (without chopping).

I will again say that this is a cat 5 race and by definition they are all unprepared.

yeah...I kind of agree. Lots of hoopla here over someones first race.

The OP didn't say anything about group riding. I am just saying that they should have experience riding in a group first. If they already have that then there's no problem...

And I'm saying if he doesn't he'll be OTB on the first lap so it's irrelevant as a safety issue. Unless he can't get into his pedals....which frankly is an entertainment perk for those who choose to spectate. Anyway....moving on the heckle Lance fans.

I'm not really certain how anyone is intuiting that the OP doesn't have the pack skills to race. His question was basically 'will I get dropped' (yes, btw). But ok, other things to do. I totally disagree with you guys. Most threes can't corner, and a neophyte will get get dropped in a technical crit long before he poses a danger to anyone. Generally speaking, 2s under 21 can't corner either (without chopping).

hmmmmm...after careful examination of the evidence this is quite true.

DG will be filled with a ton of sandbagging cat 5's and phenoms on their way through. Don't make it your first race. Make ANY superweek - weekday race a first one. You'll love it.

I'd also ask (on my way out the door to lunch) why is it assumed that a pack ride on open roads and no insurance is a better place to learn handling skills? Seems a spot of elitism at work. I'm sure the freds like to be safe as well.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just felt that the OP would have been in a bit over their head.

True story.

I sometimes ride with a woman who lives down in Ocala. Her name is Mary. In 1979, or maybe 1980, she walked into a bike shop in Sarasota (Florida) and said she wanted a bike because she wanted to try her hand at this racing thing.

Everyone in the shop laughed at her, but when she showed them the green they went ahead and got her squared away.

In 1985 and 1986 she had proven herself to be so good that she raced in the Tour de Feminin.

Never discount a person who displays interest or passion.

^na. that is stretching the umbrella of elitism. I don't disagree that it is not a "required" part of learning to race--but elitism...na. it's hard to argue that a free "event" is elite.

All of the information is much appreciated and fair. The thought crossed my mind seeing the banners around downtown and though I would get some information. I definitly do not want to be the cause of crashes etc. Having raced cars I completly understand the being prepared and skilled replies.

As for the superweek mention, what is this where and when. I just want to finish not win haha.

Thanks for the input

Chris

Interesting course.

http://www.chicagobikeracing.com/blog/p/07/dg.jpg

Not knowing anything about the profile, turns 2, 4, and 7 look like fun.

Your inexperience is showing. Move along now.

Not sure what your race experience is because you've posted about doing 4/5 races, so I'm going to guess you're a 5.

Sending someone with little to no group ride experience into a technical crit is a stupid idea. Everyone else here agrees.

Edit: Apologizing for dooshbaggery.

Whoa there, tiger. This particular course might be a bit technical for a first-timer, but let's get real about how much "group ride experience" really matters in a Cat 5 crit. For one thing, there's going to be a tremendous amount of variation in experience and natural aptitude, and even a year of group rides might not be "enough." For another, and this is just my personal experience, the skills learned in the relatively controlled environment of a group ride are not 100% transferable to the crazy, disorganized world of a racing pack, especially a Cat 5 racing pack. Yeah, it can help, anywhere from a little to a lot, but riding in paceline is very different from riding in the peleton. Hey, I'm a pretty solid group rider right now, but I'm out of practice riding in the pack (not many racing miles this year), and it really shows. The only way to learn is to do it, and I'm pretty skeptical about the extent of the benefit that the OP will get from holding off. Maybe he shouldn't do Downer's Grove, but jumping into racing right away will give him an idea of what he needs to work on and how hard to train a lot more quickly.


I'm not really certain how anyone is intuiting that the OP doesn't have the pack skills to race. His question was basically 'will I get dropped' (yes, btw). But ok, other things to do. I totally disagree with you guys. Most threes can't corner, and a neophyte will get get dropped in a technical crit long before he poses a danger to anyone. Generally speaking, 2s under 21 can't corner either (without chopping).

+ 1,000. Seriously, how many 4s and 5s don't suck at pack handling? Sure, we might feel relatively good about ourselves if we're among the steadier riders in the group, but let's be honest about the real extent of our abilities. The new guy is about a hundred times more likely to get dropped than to cause a crash. With all the surging out of those corners, he won't last long unless he's exceptionally strong for a beginner. Not a big deal really. There really is a lot of sturm und drang (I owe pcad $0.10 for that, I think) on BF about first races and how much experience and know-how and expert advice you need to compete in your first crit. It's completely friggin ridiculous. Most of the people starting their first race haven't spent the previous 6 months on bike forums agonizing over whether their bike handling skills are good enough or if they have sufficient "experience" (in scare quotes because NO 1st time racer has any experience) to start their first race. No, they get out there, they race, they get dropped, they like it keep at it or they hate it and quit. BFD. Get out there and race.

All of the information is much appreciated and fair. The thought crossed my mind seeing the banners around downtown and though I would get some information. I definitly do not want to be the cause of crashes etc. Having raced cars I completly understand the being prepared and skilled replies.

As for the superweek mention, what is this where and when. I just want to finish not win haha.

Thanks for the input

Chris

http://www.internationalcycling.com

Also check out the regional forum in great Lakes. We have a thread on there about Superweek, etc. lots of riders from this area to check out. Slim mentioned the CBR site. I am our team manager and my contact information is on that site if you wish to get ahold of me to ask any questions.

Never back down from a race. Ever.

...just don't do downers as your first. :p